User:Eucarya/Eucarya's Sandbox

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A community effort to break the 30k trade limit[edit | edit source]

Jagex have announced the removal of unbalanced trading from runescape to prevent runescape gold being sold for real money. The limit is a maximum of 30k every 15 minutes (assuming recent updates are correct).

This is going to hurt real players badly. High level players can no longer give gifts to others; Mums can't help their sons and daughters out; Giving exp to someone who's close to a level is out of the question. There are numerous other ways that this is stupid beyond imagining, but this has been discussed elsewhere and at greater length!

So, here's a plan to let unequal trades between players to take place. We need co-operation, some small investment, and no fancy-dress freebooters. But it can work.

Here's the background[edit | edit source]

  1. The "market value" of an item is determined by the grand exchange. The price of any item can increase or decrease by 5% a day, depending on the selling price. If everyone buys and sells an item at maximum price, it will be 5% higher tomorrow.
  2. It is possible to manipulate prices so that a 2-dose potion can sell for more than either a 3-dose potion or 1-dose potion.

Here's the plan[edit | edit source]

  1. We want to manipulate an item that is hardly ever used or traded to be really "valuable" in the grand exchange
  2. Buy and sell zamorak brew (2) in the Grand Exchange at MAXIMUM price ONLY. If you don't have any, either buy some 3 dose and sip them, or put in offers at MAXIMUM price for just a few. Only try and buy/sell in very small quantities unless you have a friend who you know is mimicking the buy/sell offer - you have to take the potions out and in again the following day when the price goes up, to ensure they continue to sell at maximum price.
  3. Do this every single day! It will take between 30 and 60 days for the potions to get to a realistically useful amount.
  4. Please note that I have deliberately picked zamorak brews (2) because they have a reasonable starting price of 1500 each, there's a lot of them sitting in high level bank accounts, AND they're utterly useless - no-one uses them.

Here's how you can give or receive items unequally[edit | edit source]

(assume that we've been price manipulating for a while and zamorak brew (2) trades at 25k now):

  1. Let's say I want to give a friend a rune scimitar. I give him a zamorak brew (3), he sips it, and I can now give him the rune scimitar for the zamorak brew (2). I have made an "unequal" trade (a useless potion for a shiny sword) despite the restrictions.

Upsides and downsides[edit | edit source]

  • Jagex could "adjust" the price of a zamorak brew themselves if it got too high. If they did so, it would be another demonstration that they do not care about their player base.
  • It would take between 30 and 60 days for a zamorak brew (2) to reach a price that might be considered "useful" for getting around the "unequal trade" rules.
  • Ideally, we should do this for several different "convertible" items for every available "unequal" trade - it doesn't even have to be a potion. Candidates for price manipulation should be:
  1. largely useless
  2. have low normal trade-volumes
  3. have reasonable amounts of them in circulation
  • Examples: Furniture; Unfinished potions; Semi-useless potions (zamorak brew being ideal because it's useless and has a highish starting GE price, but defence/agility/fishing are all suitable candidates);
  • If anyone can think of ideal F2P items that we may be able to manipulate the price of, please suggest them here (as well as any member items that may do the job).
  • I think that at some point we will hit a crunch point, where no-one will be willing to buy at "maximum" any more, whereupon the price will stay roughly constant. (there will be no buyers at minimum, because the pots are useless and at this point, ridiculously overpriced). I am estimating this at 30k, but it could be much higher.

Whaaaat?[edit | edit source]

  • I don't understand what I have to do?
    • To put it in simple terms, find a friend. Sell lots of zammy brew (2) in the exchange at maximum price. Get your friend to buy them. Your friend puts those zammy brews back in the exchange at maximum price, and you buy them. Neither of you have lost anything, but tomorrow the price will rise.
  • How am I going to get zammy brews?
    • There are literally millions of 3 dose in the exchange, detritus from farming. Just offer minimum price in the exchange for 3 dose, you'll get as many as you want to trade.
  • How do I get 2 dose zammy brews?
    • Use a 3 dose with another 3 dose to get a 1-dose and a 4-dose. Use the 4-dose with an empty vial to get 2 2-dose potions. Repeat.
  • Isn't this against the rules?
    • Probably. I don't see anything in Jagex's rules that prohibit it, but frankly, I don't want to play a game that prevents gifts being given.
  • Aren't you going to lose millions doing this?
    • Probably, but I'd rather have a game where I can give stuff freely to other people than a game where I have a high level skill. I was thinking about 99 construction, personally, but this is far more fun!

A brief rant[edit | edit source]

Trading[edit | edit source]

The proposed limits on trading (30k outside of the norm every 15 minutes) are ridiculous.

This is to solve the "real world item trading" problem. In their update they stated If we don't find a solution to RWT now, it will ruin RuneScape.

Why do you think that real world trading will ruin runescape?

It certainly hasn't up until now. We've had mining bots, essence bots, green dragon bots, bots doing every conceivable activity. Has it ruined the game? It has certainly had effects on the economy, such as making manufacturing skills profitable (these are normally time consuming or extremely expensive), but whether it's changed the game is another matter. It's not necessarily a bad thing to provide player's with the ability to easily level certain skills. If you remove the bots (and this update will, for a while, do that), suddenly no-one will train half the skills available.

Let's look at other MMORPGS for a minute. All of them have some "black economy", where game-money can be bought for real money, normally farmed by cleverly programmed robots, or alternatively, high level real players trying to fund next month's subscription. I do not know any other MMORPG which has even considered such draconian restrictions on trade. In this, Jagex is pioneering a change to their game that no other MMORPG has dared to make. I applaud their bravery.

No more hearts and clubs[edit | edit source]

All players can be categorised on 4 axes - hearts, clubs, diamonds and spades. Hearts love to chat, socialise and help each other; Clubs are killers who love to pk; Diamonds are achievers who like to get as many levels as possible and items that nobody else has; Spades are explorers who like to explore new areas and experiment with the games' physics.

The proposed updates really hurt a lot of the player types. I am a spadey-diamond (0% club! Try the test), but even though these updates affect me least, I still detest them.

  • Hearts can no longer help their friends
  • Clubs can no longer kill others, except in very sanitized environments (and they won't like that)
  • Runescape has a very low proportion of Spades anyway, mainly because the game is not complex, this update doesn't really affect them.
  • Diamonds have no-one left to praise them (hearts,spades) so they go too.

The result is going to be disastrous for runescape as a whole. However, A mass exodus from runescape to other MMORPGS is probably a good thing.

Why do I say that?

Because, and I know this is sacrilege to say so here on a fan site, runescape isn't a very good game.

Sacrilege[edit | edit source]

There's WAY too much grinding, the game mechanics are ultimately simple (require no exploration) and flawed in basic ways. Why, for example, don't I get more experience from killing the King Black Dragon than say 5 rock crabs? Which is more interesting? They attempt to "fix" this by having mini-games that can be better (such as pest control), and then, strangely, they nerf the gains from the area making it not worth it.

Why on earth do infinity robes take 100+ hours to obtain? 100+ hours is enough time to complete 4 largeish playstation games, and it's very very dull, and doing mage training is interesting compared to, say, getting 99 smithing, which I'm also guilty of. Runescape's redeeming feature for me was the sniff of a good deal - getting stuff cheap, selling it expensive. I'm NOT a merchant by any means, but it is GREAT to dabble in the market. Sure, you get scammed sometimes, even I do as a mod, but the next great deal might be just around the corner.

The quests cannot be repeated either, and why not? Allowing people to repeat quests would attract spades to the game and you WANT spades in your game because it encourages every other player type. Denying the reward the second time is irrelevant. I *loved* certain quests, such as one small favour. Why can't I do them again?! I'd happily do that again without the reward, so why can't I do it?

And there's lazy programming too. Why can't I have 2 ectophials? Or 2 penance gloves? With the flawed bank system that runescape has, it should be a priority to allow multiples of ANY item that is not used and destroyed whilst part of a quest. It's just lazy design, and results in the "hunting for one of the items I can only have one of in the bank".

There's also no depth to any of the mechanics. The only trivially interesting one I can think of that is difficult to spade is the ring of Wealth. And that was at least 3 years ago. I know, I'm spoilt because I play KOL where there's dozens of things going on at the same time, that makes it brilliant for spades (eg)

Finally, the people controlling the game don't seem to be "involved" in their own game - all we get is anecdotes and missives. I play KOL, and the creator(s) of the game actually posts on the official forums. Replies to things you post! How good is that! Reacts to complaints!!! I know runescape is a lot bigger, but it'd be nice, sometimes, if an employee would condescend to chat to actual players. Why on earth doesn't Andrew or someone similar give an interview to a big fan site such as runehq or Or even pay for the upkeep of those sites (I know we're minority site here at wikia, but we are the best heh), they are YOUR fans, consider it a public-relations exercise that really talks to your paying customers. Why the hell did Jagex spend money on developing the knowledge base when they could have just funded runehq and got them to remove the adverts for much less cash.

Moving on[edit | edit source]

It's time to go and try other MMORPGS. Jagex have decided to destroy their own game, and I want no part of it.

A solution[edit | edit source]

Why not make trade limits based on the cube of the quest points? A fixed amount so new players aren't arbitrarily hampered, plus an amount based on the cube of the quest points?

  • New player: 10k
  • Maximum F2P: 10k + (393) = 70k
  • Maximum P2P: 10k + (2493) = 15.5 mil

It's a little low on maximum F2P (give more quest points for dragon slayer??), but it's a hell of a lot better than what's been suggested.