Transcript of RuneScape RuneFest PvP Insider Session

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[00:14] alright guys welcome to this
[00:17] presentation evolution of PvP as you
[00:22] know whoa where am I getting that
[00:24] feedback hi so as you know we released
[00:27] the OC a year ago and since then you
[00:30] guys are all sort of avid PB peers have
[00:32] been sort of struggling with the system
[00:34] there's not as many people in the world
[00:36] e so we're here today just discuss PvP
[00:40] will run through some slides really
[00:42] quickly probably no more than 5 10
[00:44] minutes and all these slides going to do
[00:47] it just spell out what we think the
[00:49] problems are and from reading the forums
[00:51] multiplies been on the chat channels
[00:53] talking to you all and he's sort clayton
[00:57] feedback from you guys so we'll go
[00:58] through what you guys think and then
[01:00] once that's done we'll just open the
[01:02] floor for some discussion you can
[01:03] provide us with your ideas on how you
[01:05] would improve PvP how you can get people
[01:07] back into pvp and basically just make
[01:10] the game like it used to be for you guys
[01:12] okay so let's get started right so a
[01:18] little bit of background to us so I
[01:21] started playing 11 years ago in classic
[01:24] the very first thing I that happened to
[01:27] me in classic I came out tutorial
[01:28] islands and this guy was like hey Joel
[01:30] me is like sweet yeah Julian I lost all
[01:33] of my tutorial island items and got peak
[01:35] aid which is just wonderful from however
[01:39] from there I started joining PK clans
[01:43] that were protecting skill errs so back
[01:46] in the day when it's PvP everywhere
[01:47] there were people protecting it like
[01:49] clans to protects killers and started
[01:51] joining their joining small teams and
[01:53] that was that was that was great fun but
[01:55] from there when it moved into the
[01:58] wilderness I started making tiny PK
[02:01] clans just pee came with my friends like
[02:03] killing people at Green Dragons popping
[02:06] up to the greater demons and then that
[02:09] eventually led me to join enemy own as
[02:12] one came in to a teamspeak and said hey
[02:17] jus wanna join my clan
[02:19] and that's when I got into what quite
[02:21] possibly as my most favorite part of
[02:23] ever being in runescape was was peeking
[02:27] in a clan like doing the massive 200
[02:28] v200 wars they were just amazing and
[02:31] like nothing has matched that
[02:33] awesomeness for me in for peking for a
[02:36] while whilst there are state amore to a
[02:40] p-hat that was pretty cool when the
[02:44] worldly was taken away it pretty much
[02:46] killed clowning like clans just shut
[02:50] down and it was just a like
[02:51] horrible time to actually be a PK at the
[02:54] time and it in today it took a little
[02:55] while for bounty hunter to appear so
[02:59] instead what I did was me and friends we
[03:02] create the castle walls clans so i got
[03:03] my pee-can kicks from there so I I used
[03:06] to basically what's called off mage so I
[03:08] used to just blanket biraj the enemy
[03:10] respawn which was great fun nowadays bit
[03:14] sad really I've tried p Kang especially
[03:17] in the AC I'm not much of a 1v1 / care
[03:19] so I didn't really do much in edge but I
[03:23] can't find anyone to be care anymore and
[03:24] I was like guys this is a problem it
[03:26] makes me sad considering when I compare
[03:29] it to the awesomeness of the 203 200
[03:31] days it's it's a horrible state of
[03:34] affairs and I'm sure you can all agree
[03:35] right so yeah I am very dedicated to
[03:41] getting peeking back and I want to get
[03:44] back killing basically for my part I'm
[03:49] complete opposite of Pi pretty much a
[03:52] pvp noob I started playing the game
[03:54] again about a year and a half ago really
[03:57] enjoyed pvm in I'm really enjoying EOC I
[03:59] think fighting fighting bosses with that
[04:02] system is really fun this is what I call
[04:05] my litany of fail because I've been
[04:07] trying to do some PK lately and I've
[04:10] bankrupted myself which is a bit of a
[04:12] shame because it seems i bankrupted
[04:14] myself till we bake at the pvp lip
[04:16] completely and i had to go back to pvm
[04:18] and skilling just to make cash so i
[04:20] could buy a load more stuff that I could
[04:22] lose
[04:22] I've tried the duel arena embarrassing
[04:26] frankly total fail and I really want to
[04:29] you know the idea of PPP for me is
[04:32] really good that that thrill you can get
[04:34] from walking in the world the I've done
[04:36] it before I when birthright the dwarfs
[04:38] was released I found a loaded muddy keys
[04:40] when I was wailing on chaos dwarfs if I
[04:42] go up give that a go walked in there
[04:45] dead straightaway stun locked and killed
[04:48] so basically that's my story it's pretty
[04:53] short and pathetic i'm afraid i would
[04:55] just jump into the next slides now which
[04:57] are all about what we're going to be
[04:59] doing we've not got much time it's a bit
[05:01] of a lie that we've got an hour we've
[05:03] got 45 minutes and less now we've got a
[05:07] limited amount of time to discuss each
[05:09] topic so we'll try and keep things
[05:10] moving fast we've got this whiteboard
[05:12] here to note down all your suggestions
[05:14] and we'll take a big picture of it at
[05:15] the end so we can take your ideas away
[05:17] and take them back into the office and
[05:18] start moving on this will do our best to
[05:22] get as many of your opinions on that
[05:24] board as we can okay oh my click oh
[05:28] there we go so brief thing things that
[05:32] we have done and things that we want to
[05:35] do we had an ultimate abilities update a
[05:37] little while ago hopefully those
[05:39] abilities that were updated are a little
[05:41] bit more useful to you guys I'm seeing
[05:44] some shakes of heads so i'll probably be
[05:46] a topic we talk about later we fixed the
[05:49] overhead health bar so that should now
[05:51] actually accurately report when you're
[05:53] about to die rather than lulling you
[05:55] into a false sense of security you leave
[05:57] that last bit of food alone and then
[05:59] you're suddenly dead summoning fixes we
[06:03] want to bring familiars back into play
[06:05] they're all a bit I naf is the right
[06:08] word yeah I'm for it enough just a point
[06:11] cuz this came up in game we are buffing
[06:13] beasts of burden HP because at the
[06:15] moment they're just getting ko'd
[06:16] instantly so that is happening so don't
[06:19] worry cool and PvP XP we don't know how
[06:23] we're going to do it yet but we
[06:24] definitely want to do it
[06:25] because that is a very tangible reward
[06:27] for you guys you go up there as well as
[06:29] the wealth you'll get in the XP which
[06:31] otherwise you would be going to pvm to
[06:33] get it's about keeping people in that
[06:35] pvp loop that really want to stay there
[06:37] and then world event to the next one
[06:40] will feature opt in PvP in the open
[06:43] world we're currently implementing that
[06:48] and testing it it seems to be working
[06:49] quite well at the minute but I can't
[06:52] give you too many more details on that
[06:53] lout giving too much information about
[06:56] the world event away but the kicks will
[06:59] be there ah so next up so this is where
[07:03] we go into the part where we we go
[07:05] through your feedback and what we think
[07:06] as well and each category so we've got
[07:09] stuns and counters we think stands are
[07:12] useful they're a bit too useful right
[07:15] now it's really hard to avoid them avoid
[07:17] them the only way of getting out of a
[07:19] stone or avoiding one is basically using
[07:22] anticipation which is now the default
[07:24] start to a fight and you know because
[07:28] freedom is overloaded it clears dots and
[07:30] stuns you're in this catch-22 do you
[07:33] want to do you want to clear your
[07:34] standard you want to clear the dot
[07:35] that's about 2 and this going to
[07:36] inevitably hit you if you do clay is
[07:38] done and then we wanted them to be used
[07:42] tactically but now they're just the
[07:43] default you have to do it otherwise if
[07:45] you don't get the first down in you're
[07:47] probably going to die what you guys
[07:49] think so it was a little bit of
[07:51] confusion the four guys in the forums
[07:53] you'll think that stands on opie the
[07:56] gosh that were chatting to you yeah
[07:58] I went in game and did a talk on my on
[08:01] my mod FC and they're like no no no no
[08:04] stands on i peek Opie keep them keep
[08:06] them I don't know if they're making bank
[08:07] and don't want me to change it but yeah
[08:10] it's kind of conflicting and this is why
[08:11] I like stuns a bit being brought up here
[08:13] because we want to lobby you guys and
[08:16] see what you think yeah and then that
[08:19] final bullet point it's just about how
[08:20] every fight starts with the stun it
[08:22] narrows you tactical thought you're
[08:24] immediately going in with the
[08:25] expectation that you're going to be
[08:27] hitting someone with a stand or getting
[08:28] hit biased and so there's no actual
[08:30] tactics beyond that that really changed
[08:32] because there's no different opening to
[08:34] a fight so next up combat pacing
[08:38] everyone thinks they died too quickly
[08:40] after buying many many times in the
[08:43] wilderness I totally agree with you we
[08:44] talked we think that you die too quickly
[08:47] you think EOC has bought a lot more
[08:50] interaction into combat Lane and this is
[08:53] something that when we started thinking
[08:56] about aoc a lot of the people that were
[08:58] leaving the game were citing combat as
[09:01] being not interactive enough and not as
[09:03] much fun as they would like as being the
[09:05] main reason since we've implemented EOC
[09:08] those those issues when people exit have
[09:11] gone down dramatically and we don't hear
[09:13] it as much we think aocs working really
[09:16] well in pvm but PvP is still an issue
[09:20] like I say fights are over too quickly
[09:21] every piece of damage that hits he feels
[09:23] like it's spike damage and there's no
[09:26] real way to react against acts you can t
[09:29] quick enough you can't protect yourself
[09:30] quick enough and there's not always time
[09:34] to think about what you're going to do
[09:35] you've got your fight planned out in the
[09:36] head in your head and before it all
[09:39] starts and so there's not much room to
[09:42] react to what people are doing against
[09:44] you because you just go through your
[09:46] right and the experience of pvm and PvP
[09:50] which is something we didn't really
[09:52] envision when we designed it they're
[09:53] completely different experiences we
[09:55] wanted it to be the same or so you could
[09:57] take your pvm skills or people that do a
[10:00] lot of pvm and aren't necessarily
[10:01] comfortable in pvp could switch to
[10:04] fighting a player and it would be pretty
[10:05] much like fighting another and another
[10:07] boss monster but one that's a little
[10:09] more savvy you guys you totally think
[10:12] it's a spam fest this is a piece of
[10:14] feedback that has come across the board
[10:16] so it's definitely something we want to
[10:18] look to address and it's just about
[10:21] basically it's just about building up
[10:23] adrenaline until you get to threshold
[10:24] level and you can start start the big
[10:27] hits basically and people pretty much
[10:29] avoid ultimus because that just tanks
[10:31] you'd tanks your adrenaline you've got
[10:32] nothing left
[10:34] male guys you've seemed to have a short
[10:37] end of the stick as well because it's
[10:41] really easy to avoid your big damage
[10:42] burst damage people just walk a couple
[10:44] of squares away and it's all gone and
[10:46] range and majors seem to have all the
[10:48] fun and again fights over way too
[10:51] quickly so I'm really bursting through
[10:54] these bits because I want to get to the
[10:55] part where your suggestions come in so
[10:58] armor yeah kinda hailer life points on
[11:02] armor is that everyone agree with that
[11:05] just put Roseanne's shakes of heads
[11:08] what's going on there we want to keep
[11:12] the concept of the combat trial and goal
[11:14] at the triangle alive we'd like people
[11:18] to have a reason to take their top tier
[11:20] gear into the wilderness that basically
[11:23] brings back lots of money being made
[11:25] from people dying in the wilderness but
[11:28] right now is too easy to get by on
[11:30] welfare go so I've got a bit lost there
[11:34] so I'm bits of feedback on your side
[11:38] welfare gear as I've just said it's just
[11:40] as effective as someone going in and
[11:42] full taxi you can just go in really
[11:45] cheap stuff and be on a par with them
[11:47] lifepoint bonuses aren't aren't a big
[11:51] liking with you guys and you kind
[11:54] everyone is pretty much saying you like
[11:56] damage reduction instead so you get in
[11:59] you get that better form a try saying
[12:03] you get more benefit from your armor
[12:05] because everyone's on a par with Life
[12:07] Points but you're taking less damage if
[12:09] you've got better and room you're
[12:11] frowning and yeah that last coin is
[12:16] something we kind of agree with two is
[12:17] hybrid Gary's kind of rubbish next up is
[12:21] bringing in new blood to PvP right now
[12:25] we're very much of the opinion that the
[12:28] wildy is endgame PvP it's a lot of risk
[12:33] it's a lot of risk being taken when you
[12:34] cross that wall you're going to lose
[12:36] quite a lot of stuff if you're on a
[12:38] normal world you might be able to
[12:39] protect one I am
[12:41] if you're on a high-risk world then you
[12:43] expect to lose everything and that I saw
[12:46] very off-putting to people who aren't
[12:47] well versed in PvP who don't have a long
[12:50] history of doing pvp if you want to gets
[12:52] killers into the wilderness then we need
[12:54] to make it more accessible for them
[12:56] earlier on which means giving them a
[12:58] safe environment to work in and learn
[13:01] PvP and so that they can they can engage
[13:03] in PvP right from when they join the
[13:05] game all the way up to when they're
[13:07] proficient enough to cross the wall and
[13:09] come and join you guys in getting killed
[13:12] and being being killers in the
[13:14] wilderness so yeah you guys you want
[13:18] more stuff to skill in the wilderness
[13:20] you want to get people in there so you
[13:22] can kill them or protect them and then
[13:25] feed that sort of wildy supply chain
[13:27] from the bottom up and then crucible
[13:30] bank account no again unsafe PvP was
[13:33] really good back in the day but we need
[13:35] something a crucible didn't really
[13:37] replace bounty hunter that's what we
[13:40] wanted it to do but it just didn't
[13:41] didn't do the trick and then obviously
[13:44] clans are a massive part of PK and we
[13:48] need more opportunities for clans to
[13:50] come together and PK together and then
[13:53] PvP world's obviously if you can fight
[13:54] anywhere in the game and anyone's a
[13:57] target you guys seem to think that's
[14:00] going to be a good good show next slide
[14:03] this is a contentious one single way a
[14:05] multi-way combat from our perspective
[14:08] the concept of single a motorway combat
[14:11] is really abstract and hard to explain
[14:13] to a player who has never never
[14:15] experienced it before and without them
[14:18] sort of going on to wikia and looking it
[14:21] up and reading a load of sort of
[14:23] information outside of the game first
[14:24] they're never going to get it the toggle
[14:28] it was our solution to try and get
[14:30] around that unfortunately it's just as
[14:33] confusing the way that reacts the time
[14:35] it takes to bring it online and the fact
[14:37] that if you're in single way combat and
[14:39] you attack someone in multi-way combat
[14:40] you're instantly switched is really
[14:42] people and we kind of think that having
[14:46] single where male combat with in the
[14:49] wilderness and anywhere else kind of
[14:51] splits the community a little because
[14:53] people are averse to taking the risk of
[14:55] putting on their putting on their
[14:57] multi-way combat flag said they're
[15:00] worried a lot of feedback we're getting
[15:01] is they're worried about getting ganked
[15:04] from your go side because you're all old
[15:07] pros and you understand the system you
[15:09] think it's fine the quote there is
[15:12] pretty much been said by a lot of people
[15:15] the always fine if you knew how the
[15:17] zones worked a lot of other people as I
[15:20] say saying multi-way is getting ganked
[15:22] single ways good if it's a plan to fight
[15:24] otherwise it's full of one eye on us who
[15:27] are just going out there to try their
[15:29] luck basically see if they can get away
[15:31] with it and come out with no risk for
[15:33] themselves which is not the point of the
[15:35] wilderness the world miss is all about
[15:36] taking risks and you really want edge of
[15:39] all PK in back cool makes slide up so
[15:43] that's our slide this is just like a
[15:44] shotgun blast of things that you've been
[15:47] saying on the forums things you've been
[15:48] saying in pies pies chat so on to the
[15:52] interesting bit or at least interesting
[15:54] for us because this is where we talk to
[15:56] you and you talk to us and you give us
[15:58] the ideas I got this other way so Oh
[16:01] crikey that was loud Maya was near a
[16:03] speaker um so open floor guys who wants
[16:08] to kick it off we've got mics over here
[16:12] so I'll it will run or a run around is
[16:18] on high I just would like to say that I
[16:22] am quite concerned that you think the
[16:24] wilderness is endgame PvP okay
[16:26] considering that Mudpie your first
[16:29] experience of runescape was in the
[16:30] wilderness yeah one of mine was soooo me
[16:33] the number one player
[16:34] yeah also set foot in the wilderness
[16:36] before doing anything else and it's a
[16:37] really common occurrence because we have
[16:40] you when you cross that wall you have
[16:42] assumed that it's a huge risk but that's
[16:45] not the case you're only in level one
[16:46] wilderness and the reason we have those
[16:49] levels of illness is so that all players
[16:51] of all experience levels can participate
[16:53] in the wilderness so it is already
[16:55] tiered in a way to suit all players so I
[16:58] don't think you need to think along
[17:00] those lines um okay that comment was
[17:04] more geared towards we won a way in
[17:07] which we can kind of babysit people into
[17:11] the wilderness a bit more because you
[17:13] can't disagree that there's quite a lot
[17:15] of people that are just too scared to go
[17:16] there but actually it's probably a lack
[17:19] of peaking knowledge and if they just
[17:21] had a bit just a bit of practice before
[17:23] they took that scary jump into the
[17:25] wilderness even into level one right
[17:27] even that is incredibly daunting for a
[17:30] lot of players and that's more to the
[17:33] point of we want to prepare people for
[17:35] the wilderness we definitely want people
[17:36] in the move knows we want that place
[17:37] full but it's more to do is we won to
[17:40] prep people we don't want to we're not
[17:42] saying yeah you only go here when you're
[17:44] level 200 and you're fine like just like
[17:47] a couple of weeks in a safe environment
[17:49] say go to Castle Wars do some picking
[17:52] and then jump in yeah cool
[17:59] I was thinking maybe on the tutorial
[18:02] island that if you want more people to
[18:03] come p cane you should try to and grade
[18:07] it into the tutorial yeah that's
[18:09] definitely something we want to look at
[18:10] and a pvp tutorial is a big a big part
[18:13] how we go about that it's a big kind of
[18:15] question did we get all the noobs just
[18:17] to go in and have a massive in la do
[18:19] because the the problem we have with
[18:21] teaching pvp is actually PvP is more of
[18:24] a style thing you know every PK er has
[18:27] their own style mean there's set ways
[18:28] like these AR mazurka I'm at at mage
[18:31] tank I'm a breeder but like what do we
[18:34] teach them like other apart from whether
[18:36] on that guy do we what do we teach them
[18:43] hi and I just wanted to say I'm more of
[18:46] a skiller I'm not really burst a pvp
[18:48] very much but some of the funnest
[18:50] experiences I've had in runescape have
[18:52] been skilling in the wilderness like I
[18:54] used to love going to the agility course
[18:56] and combining peak hang with skilling so
[18:58] I just feel that the best experience
[19:01] rate should really be in the wilderness
[19:02] that players really need to be rewarded
[19:04] for taking that risk in order to skill
[19:07] so I think that we should add more
[19:10] skilling opportunities to the wilderness
[19:12] and that should definitely be reflected
[19:13] in the rewards that we get for doing so
[19:15] definitely oh we definitely agree with
[19:17] that and I think that's what we tried to
[19:18] do with warbands the problem is there's
[19:21] not enough PK is to match it so actually
[19:23] this huge reward there's no risk at the
[19:25] moment so it's not at the moment it's
[19:27] not risk versus reward I've got a huge
[19:29] document about two or three pages a
[19:32] massive list full of things we could do
[19:34] really quick things or hard ones like a
[19:36] high-level agility course for instance
[19:37] that's easy and there's like no bonus xp
[19:41] for using the anvils at the greater
[19:42] demons you know that kind of thing but
[19:44] until we actually get the risk in there
[19:46] all we're really doing is giving away
[19:47] free XP and we will end up with another
[19:49] problem like wall bands and that's a
[19:50] problem but yes definitely but let's get
[19:54] people began first cool that's way all
[19:57] right then and so one thing I've wanted
[20:00] to think about other than adding likes
[20:02] killing rewards to the wilderness is
[20:04] maybe the addition of life money based
[20:06] rewards in the wilderness maybe say a
[20:08] new boss in the wilderness
[20:10] drop some sort of item that people found
[20:12] quite valuable within the game what that
[20:14] will do is it will bring pvm is into the
[20:16] wilderness and these pvm is I mean
[20:20] they've got risks something if they're
[20:22] going to go to this new boss in the
[20:24] wilderness so that's going to add some
[20:26] form of new p cane and sensor for the
[20:28] people who want to go out and kill those
[20:30] people for money and then along with
[20:33] that you're also going to have clans
[20:34] former together to make this possible
[20:36] and at the same time another thing nice
[20:40] to be considered is in this one turn out
[20:43] the same way that warbands there's the
[20:45] problem of war bonds originally was
[20:47] because one clan became so overly
[20:51] dominant on what used to be like to well
[20:54] to free world so once it it was
[20:57] impossible to him to really make
[21:00] anything from it I mean most people who
[21:02] would go out to pique the people at war
[21:04] bands would basically died instantly so
[21:07] with the addition that say a boss in the
[21:09] wilderness what you're gonna rap is
[21:11] these bosses are all going to be on
[21:13] different world so there's going to be
[21:15] different groups of people go into all
[21:16] these different pvm is trying to make
[21:18] some money from it so that's just an
[21:20] idea really talk at all yes certainly
[21:23] something a boss in the wilderness is
[21:26] definitely on our list of things to ads
[21:28] like for instance the chaos Ellie is
[21:29] completely dead and like certain things
[21:33] like we've like the instant teleport to
[21:35] the corp like completely removed the
[21:37] reason for the court being in the
[21:38] wilderness which makes me a little sad
[21:40] but definitely because ppm is going a
[21:42] good best gear right the problem with PK
[21:48] is is once again there's just not enough
[21:51] of them right God at a point I sorry so
[21:57] yeah we want to get if we want to get
[21:58] more p cares into the wildy it's not
[22:01] about sort of ear it's not just about
[22:03] feeding clans because it starts small I
[22:05] think this is something you said in your
[22:07] post launcher
[22:08] and it's about getting loads of yeah
[22:13] yeah the the big document basically the
[22:15] the food chain yeah it's about getting
[22:19] single people up there so they can
[22:21] interact with people whether that be
[22:23] dying or whether they're being having
[22:24] their next save by someone else's in the
[22:26] clan and then that's how they get into
[22:28] clans they can form up together we want
[22:30] to do things as well like decent
[22:32] matchmaking so you guys who do want a
[22:34] picot together you know on in a sort of
[22:37] formal structure like a clam can come
[22:39] together quite easily just by a click of
[22:41] a button and you sort group together
[22:43] maybe transport to the same world same
[22:45] area and then you can go off as a group
[22:47] and you'll all share the same interest
[22:49] you can watch each other's back yeah i
[22:51] remember was going to say now the the
[22:53] problem is there's no counter planning
[22:56] going on right now the way in which
[22:58] clans evolve is actually through the
[23:02] food chain it is you know you kind of
[23:04] you kind of start picking on your own
[23:06] and then you go start became with your
[23:08] mates you know this is fun and then
[23:10] groups the big hairs kind of come
[23:11] together and they eventually create
[23:12] plans but PBM clans their massive like 0
[23:17] 0 ppm is huge right but there isn't a
[23:22] yeah don't worry but there isn't and
[23:26] that big enough PK clan to counter clan
[23:28] there and that's why we're putting a lot
[23:30] of effort into getting new people to pk
[23:31] we need the numbers because otherwise
[23:34] yeah you're right thus killers and the
[23:36] pvm is they're just going to dominate
[23:37] the PK clans it's a bit sad
[23:42] oh yeah sorry Dom um hello there we go
[23:48] and I think one of the main things it's
[23:50] like you know you can't protect items
[23:53] you can only protect one item some
[23:54] people don't want to risk it I think if
[23:57] you could actually find more of a way to
[23:59] protect items within the wilderness it
[24:01] might actually help but on top of that
[24:03] also you for regular prayers you can
[24:07] only use the Smart on regular prayers
[24:11] but you don't have it on curses so it'd
[24:13] be really good to have it on both sets
[24:15] of players to be able to smart someone's
[24:17] items but also ultimately have more
[24:20] items to save because I think more
[24:21] people would risk it away yes certainly
[24:24] the problem that I can see myself
[24:26] hitting there is the the to prayer books
[24:29] are deliberately to prayer books that
[24:31] deliberately laid out so that they're
[24:33] two different styles and where you say
[24:37] you don't have smite on the curses but
[24:39] then normal press doesn't have turmoil
[24:42] like and with the massive boost that
[24:44] that gives you over piety with the
[24:48] dropping more items is kind of a
[24:50] double-edged sword for us because I can
[24:52] say you drop more items you lose more
[24:53] stuff but then when you lose more stuff
[24:54] less people want a PK because they're
[24:56] going to lose more stuff so it's a bit
[24:58] of a bit of a tug of war that one and
[25:01] that's kind of funding their sweet spot
[25:03] is quite difficult for us could you not
[25:07] just like sup implement like maybe like
[25:09] two items to save rather than the whole
[25:11] like 40 yeah I think a high level prayer
[25:13] has been suggested but like a good item
[25:15] to be a lot more risk anyway because I
[25:18] think more people have been willing to
[25:19] risk more even if you could just save
[25:20] that one I someone really yeah it'd be a
[25:23] lot more effective as well
[25:32] just an additional thought regarding the
[25:34] food chain it will not work with the
[25:37] toggle because if you have skills and
[25:38] solo pk's out there they cannot be
[25:40] attacked by teams yeah so it has to go
[25:42] and it has to revert to the zones so the
[25:45] problem we have with the zones is that
[25:47] is purely and this is like quite a
[25:49] simple thing to lay out it's the fact
[25:51] that they're not very well telegraphed
[25:52] so like jumping from one to the other
[25:54] there's not like oh I'd say all that you
[25:57] have to click on or just something that
[25:58] really highlights where they are yeah I
[26:00] mean a graphical update could fix that
[26:02] I'm again the kid around that's a big
[26:04] restructure the world well d but we also
[26:06] need a wave huh I wouldn't restructure
[26:09] it without need to be a few more natural
[26:12] boundaries so you can see that you're
[26:13] actually crossing into a different zone
[26:15] and then we need a way of sort of easily
[26:18] quickly and clearly communicating that
[26:20] players that are coming in for the first
[26:22] time especially so they understand
[26:24] what's going on this is something that
[26:26] we kind of wrestle with when we decided
[26:28] on the toggle in hindsight we hold up a
[26:32] hands the toggle is a bit of a cop-out
[26:33] we want to sort of solve that issue and
[26:37] it's just about finding the right way of
[26:39] doing it I think I think just bears the
[26:43] telegraphing yeah the the old mot single
[26:46] way multi-way would would be better it
[26:48] takes a little bit of time because
[26:49] obviously we need to implement the
[26:51] graphics and that's something that we
[26:52] didn't have when we were making EOC but
[26:55] now that we're putting aside time to
[26:58] help PvP that's definitely something
[26:59] that we can pitch and we do agree the
[27:02] toggle is not working okay yeah I just
[27:06] want to talk about how you've meant
[27:08] touched upon how binding shot start to
[27:10] fighting people use binds because its
[27:11] widest on fire patient week that and to
[27:14] but people start with mines because it
[27:15] gives you the edge in fights on a build
[27:17] a touch upon that how people once you
[27:20] get an adrenaline advantage over another
[27:21] opponent it's very difficult for the
[27:23] other person to get back into the fight
[27:24] because once you get two thresholds the
[27:26] other person's forced to eat and it
[27:27] means they lose their adrenaline you
[27:29] can't get like a proper like fight going
[27:31] and it becomes dominated by one person
[27:32] you got any ideas to fix that Wow
[27:35] comebacks uh
[27:37] hahaha not currently I mean if you guys
[27:40] have any ideas then that would be
[27:43] brilliant like on the spot I can't think
[27:45] of one right now but like that will rest
[27:48] in my brain and I will think but because
[27:50] I'm thinking you've got natural instinct
[27:52] as well which draws all the adrenaline
[27:53] opponent perhaps change it to a
[27:54] threshold like it might be easier then
[27:56] for another person to come back into the
[27:58] fight if they draw the adrenaline of
[27:59] your opponent because at the moment once
[28:01] one person gets an advantage over
[28:02] another you very difficult to fight
[28:04] again that's a good point I just I just
[28:11] want to sort of add to that a little bit
[28:13] to do with how the different combat
[28:15] styles fight like some other people I'm
[28:19] not much of a pvp ER but I've noticed
[28:21] that I think range tends to have
[28:24] stronger basics and weaker thresholds
[28:27] and so it can be were I've kind of lost
[28:33] my point here of it I get I get where
[28:37] you're heading to it's something that
[28:39] comes up quite a lot so yeah range we
[28:42] hear that the threshold to rubbish rapid
[28:45] fire on the other hand is just owns but
[28:47] its size great but yes it is I hear it's
[28:50] the only one snapshot yeah I hear that
[28:52] an awful lot tell more Dean because he
[28:54] doesn't believe me anyway yeah and I
[28:57] hear the majors gump basics but has
[29:00] really really good thresholds so yes so
[29:03] the with regards to PvP the abilities
[29:07] are definitely not there like it's quite
[29:09] difficult to go into this one because
[29:10] it's all very particular in nitty-gritty
[29:12] but yeah Carol I think all that the
[29:16] mangoes kind of all I got Sanergy yeah
[29:18] did I get you ok cool and I just wanted
[29:23] to go back to the point of skill errs in
[29:26] the wilderness and I think one of the
[29:28] main reasons why PK is tend not to think
[29:31] it is worth their time going killing
[29:34] skill is is because often they don't
[29:36] take any really high value items with
[29:37] them so I think maybe a way to combat
[29:39] this might be to force killers in order
[29:42] to get the higher set P rates to maybe
[29:43] bring items into the wilderness of high
[29:45] value and also another thing that might
[29:47] be interesting to experiment with is
[29:50] you had sort of situations where there's
[29:52] fierce competition for resources that it
[29:55] might lead to pique pique happening to
[29:59] compete over those resources in at the
[30:00] moment I don't think there's any real
[30:02] things in the wilderness where you
[30:04] actually physically have to compete in
[30:06] order to to be able to scale effectively
[30:08] at that area yeah the original idea of
[30:10] war bands was that and we were kind of
[30:12] hoping thus killers would kill each
[30:13] other but they're kind of banded
[30:15] together so maybe you haven't no
[30:16] constricting warbands a little bit so
[30:18] they only have it on a few worlds limit
[30:21] the numbers of that are there then that
[30:23] might help yeah I just want to add to
[30:26] his idea like you said about war bonds
[30:28] the problem is is it's on every world
[30:29] and there are not P chaos on every world
[30:31] i was thinking more you could have a
[30:32] high risk skilling environment but have
[30:35] it in a shard or instant error which has
[30:37] pvp as well you have a large enough area
[30:39] but if people have want these skills you
[30:41] need then you wouldn't have the problems
[30:43] of empty worlds and empty wildernesses
[30:45] and then people would actually come
[30:46] together by over the EVP sinkholes kinda
[30:49] yeah yeah that's why second I was
[30:52] thinking if you don't have much cash and
[30:54] you want to start pvping you later like
[30:57] where's the mic florin be it can be
[30:59] really hard to get side I was thinking
[31:00] maybe an instance environment wouldn't
[31:02] an environment where you can you get
[31:05] there are tears of armor and if anyone
[31:07] you defend so we can get that tier of
[31:09] armor and you both set with identical
[31:10] weapons and armor and then it's really
[31:12] just down to skill with no food
[31:14] just it's the Jewish down to know how
[31:15] you know your abilities and then you can
[31:17] stake money during that but if you're in
[31:19] the jewelry know you want to do about
[31:20] nothing stops are putting on better
[31:21] armor but you can't afford which puts on
[31:23] the advantage even if you are actually a
[31:25] better player so they could actually be
[31:27] a tears barmer we're like a mini game or
[31:29] something where you could both have
[31:31] exactly the same stats and you could
[31:34] actually really fight each other with
[31:36] different skills yeah that's definitely
[31:38] the kind of thing we're looking for with
[31:41] say an entry level to peking say i
[31:44] wouldn't have that four main be king but
[31:46] purely because that will obviously
[31:48] flatten the diversity and you want
[31:49] people to have different bills and
[31:50] different levels but yeah that's
[31:53] definitely something we're looking at
[31:54] for say an entry-level PvP kind of thing
[31:57] to get people started and yeah there
[32:00] needs to be more pvp centric armor like
[32:02] there I think fist of guthix tried to do
[32:04] that but that's pretty much dead now
[32:06] there's the Rev caves and we need to
[32:08] buff that pvp armor as well but yeah
[32:11] more pvp centric armor and you are right
[32:14] there the entry is a big barrier so yeah
[32:18] just build another point I'll going on
[32:20] earlier and it's there any plans to like
[32:23] match up the disparity between offense
[32:25] and defense because most people will
[32:27] focus on offense obviously most one item
[32:30] risk people are going to take a weapon
[32:31] because that's how you kill your
[32:32] opponent is there any like plans to
[32:34] rebalance defensive abilities so people
[32:37] might actually use a shield in the
[32:38] wilderness or maybe you could have
[32:39] protect item covering a weapon and a
[32:42] piece of armor so people might actually
[32:44] be willing to take more balanced on as a
[32:46] pvp bit could be more balanced yeah I
[32:48] was definitely looking at getting more
[32:51] people going the defensive style because
[32:53] actually when he first came out shields
[32:54] were owning people and they were last I
[32:57] think timeflies for lasting like five
[32:58] minutes it's pretty crazy but I think it
[33:00] boils down to the fact that if you only
[33:02] have one weapon so one-handed not like
[33:06] dual wielding or two handed then you're
[33:09] pretty really limited to the damage
[33:11] output you're limited to slight reflect
[33:13] we need to buff venge of her that's
[33:16] pretty rubbish but yeah well what we're
[33:18] going to be looking at is looking at
[33:20] basically making only having one
[33:22] one-handed weapon useful I mean
[33:25] obviously it won't match
[33:26] going full suck but yeah drinking that
[33:30] would help
[33:39] and one point I'd like 2am to hammer
[33:42] down as well is Phoenix necklaces
[33:45] importance Felix necklaces are so
[33:49] overpowered it's not even funny so what
[33:53] I've got written down there is realest
[33:55] is basically a call down for the Phoenix
[33:58] no expert in the portents because
[33:59] there's no cooldown on these things and
[34:01] that you can just keep on Rhea equipping
[34:03] them and they you can keep on not dying
[34:06] and yeah that's what so peace I was
[34:08] looking at a cool-down do you reckon
[34:10] I'll help and coursework for another
[34:13] thing i was thinking of is if more if
[34:15] you reduced like the threshold of which
[34:17] it heals you are so at the moment if you
[34:20] were you know pretty decent armor a
[34:22] phoenix necklace will heal you when you
[34:24] drop below like 2,000 HP or so one of
[34:28] those considerably lower so it wasn't a
[34:30] guarantee eat he'll wear it was like
[34:32] maybe you got lucky and you know it
[34:34] saved your life in this instance yeah so
[34:38] yeah basically lower the threshold so
[34:40] that basically you can just spike out
[34:41] and kill the opponent easier that's
[34:42] that's another way of looking at it cool
[34:45] anyone who's not at the mic yet who
[34:47] wants to go go free you know you want to
[34:50] yeah regarding the entry level for
[34:52] peking one really good idea would be to
[34:55] make a lot of these new resources that
[34:57] you want to do available and free to
[34:59] play because if you remember back in the
[35:01] old days there were these hordes of
[35:02] noobs you know north of barrel can steal
[35:04] and you know I when I first went into
[35:08] the wilderness it was to collect ruins
[35:10] in the dark warriors fortress there was
[35:11] that one chaos rune and that's how I
[35:13] made my money obviously it's not
[35:15] relevant anymore but if you have things
[35:18] like that that will attract all these
[35:19] low levels in particular you know so
[35:22] that the resources I mean things like
[35:24] bosses are for high levels but it would
[35:26] be great to see some of that really
[35:28] cheap stuff as well that we're drawing
[35:29] the noobs yeah that's that that's really
[35:32] good the problem we have with the
[35:33] wilderness and i'm sure you can agree is
[35:34] that we removed it in two thousand early
[35:38] cuz the early 2007 on late two thousand
[35:40] six you guys be able to tell me 2007
[35:43] year and then when we brought it back
[35:45] like what 2011 so that's that's what
[35:50] that's five years worth of updates that
[35:51] the wilderness didn't
[35:52] and that's the reason why it's suffering
[35:55] so much and we definitely need to kind
[35:57] of buff it up to basically make the
[35:59] rewards useful now but yeah you are
[36:02] right need more Lube centric pickups I
[36:06] just got a question what do you think
[36:08] about the sort of so-called honor code
[36:10] of PK so like certain so there's like
[36:14] people don't like using soulsplit or
[36:16] protection prayers or any overhead
[36:18] prayers of the mud snow and then there's
[36:21] like the picking on the skill errs idea
[36:24] things like that so people mention the
[36:27] honor code but I'm going to be honest
[36:29] here and say I don't remember an honor
[36:31] code I remember just getting ganked in
[36:33] the wilderness like if I saw a
[36:35] level-three I knew di was coming to kick
[36:37] my ass like it's some scary stuff if
[36:40] there wasn't on a coat then it would
[36:43] just be between friends like I don't
[36:44] remember the honor code I don't remember
[36:46] actually on the code that nobody keeps
[36:48] to yeah yeah there you know guys there's
[36:50] no way to enforce honor so you're saying
[36:53] I agree with that I could you take that
[36:55] your opponent then just let me build
[36:56] like yeah I'd say I'd say P jiaying is a
[37:03] problem that yeah yeah p Jang's yeah
[37:06] that's some we can look out there going
[37:09] you're gagging over gone that you're
[37:13] going to explode might just put your
[37:14] name on that might know you're just
[37:16] regarding the honor code that's you know
[37:17] that's what makes p Kang so fun that
[37:19] it's human I mean you can I mean you can
[37:21] reduce all of the bosses two methods and
[37:24] you can you know where as human justice
[37:26] are just so unpredictable it's that
[37:28] element of trust and betrayal that's
[37:30] what makes you know every day in the
[37:32] wilderness is so different and that's
[37:33] why it was so popular yeah I definitely
[37:35] put that in my document you know all
[37:37] this all this time and effort we put
[37:39] into developing boss after boss after
[37:40] boss like we get that inbred p cane for
[37:44] so little effort and it's so so good and
[37:47] that was another problem with
[37:48] all bands that it was so content driven
[37:50] you know you had one way to play it or
[37:52] as you know when P Kang was at its
[37:54] height all you had was resources and
[37:56] then all the humans created the
[37:57] structure around that and we would love
[37:59] to see some more player-driven decaying
[38:02] rather than you know yeah that would be
[38:04] awesome it's just it it's hard to create
[38:07] something that forces that to evolve you
[38:08] know those kind of things evolved over
[38:10] many many years and we just don't have
[38:13] that time frame and it's kind of a scary
[38:14] issue to be looking at I'm just going
[38:19] back to the idea of one item and not
[38:22] having the wielder to risk high value
[38:26] items in the wilderness currently the
[38:28] level system as you got the wilderness
[38:30] takes account of your combat level and I
[38:32] thought it might be an interesting idea
[38:33] if you could make that system also take
[38:35] into account the amount that you're
[38:36] risking income but in combination with
[38:39] your level maybe the amount that you're
[38:40] risking effects if you're risking loads
[38:43] well then you can fight someone more
[38:46] people or maybe easier opponents to give
[38:48] people those incentives it might be an
[38:50] idea to build that in I don't know what
[38:52] you think about that yeah that's I'm
[38:54] thinking in my head how to build that
[38:56] system and it's making my head hurt like
[38:58] there's quite a things conflicting I
[39:00] mean I a quite like the idea you know
[39:02] like in bounty hunter it kind of showed
[39:04] how much about that well you've got so
[39:06] the people who didn't have much wealth
[39:07] to just they just people just didn't pay
[39:09] PK them they were like no go away so
[39:11] maybe something a bit closer to that but
[39:15] yeah that I've heard the leveling system
[39:16] is slightly off we did a direct scaling
[39:19] but because everyone's level 200 it's
[39:22] that's actually changed it so yes that's
[39:28] down on the whiteboard there's something
[39:29] to think about
[39:32] oh yeah what are the things that I used
[39:34] to actually do was dual tournaments and
[39:37] you talked out all the game I thought
[39:41] that's like it i saw pvp bit that you
[39:42] know it's a safe pvp but maybe you could
[39:46] like incorporate something sort of
[39:47] similar to the jaw tournaments again but
[39:49] have like the group tournaments as well
[39:51] as a single player tournaments because I
[39:53] think that have been really good from
[39:54] yeah the problem over the jewel
[39:56] tournaments was that no one was doing
[39:58] them but I think that was a problem with
[40:00] the initial buying and actually the
[40:03] number of players you needed to start it
[40:05] I think ended like 64 players that was a
[40:07] problem so maybe if we can look at just
[40:10] making it as like a bracket system so
[40:12] say you've only got eight players so you
[40:13] can go straight to the quarterfinals
[40:14] that kind of thing then they were
[40:16] bringing that back you know it could
[40:18] actually work if you maybe like you know
[40:20] like the shard worlds like people have
[40:22] said so if you had like her my child
[40:24] world everyday sort of few hours suck
[40:26] like the war bouncing but only in safe
[40:29] PvP modding said maybe just to push
[40:31] people together yeah that's basically
[40:33] what we need to do we need to push
[40:34] everyone who likes p came together and
[40:36] we need to get more people into that so
[40:38] it just grows also at the german worlds
[40:41] and like the brazilian worlds and things
[40:43] like that they can't interact with
[40:45] anyone from the regular world so maybe
[40:46] if you could incorporate a world dirts
[40:48] or groups them together as well because
[40:50] otherwise i miss another massive
[40:51] community of people yeah that is a
[40:54] problem nice why we're down to the last
[40:56] five minutes guys so if you want to say
[40:59] something now's the chance the cannoneer
[41:00] i miss goes can we have skulls back um
[41:05] scores were interesting because the
[41:08] reason they were removed was because
[41:11] actually it was really really easy to
[41:13] gain that system and we do like the idea
[41:16] of scars whereby the aggressor is the
[41:18] one yeah the risks more but if we were
[41:22] going to bring back skulls we want to do
[41:23] it in a way where it was less abusable
[41:25] can't like can't you just do it so like
[41:28] they they just show if someone's if
[41:30] they've actually just attacked someone
[41:32] or maybe if to show if that person's
[41:34] killed someone so if they kill someone
[41:36] no gain a skull you could do killed but
[41:39] then I could say that would exacerbate
[41:42] the pj and
[41:44] ragging problem I also want to bring out
[41:51] the point between I think I mentioned on
[41:52] my forum posts the differences between
[41:54] combat styles if you want the triangle
[41:56] to work you need similarities between
[41:58] the effects they have like mal a smash
[42:00] for example like a lot of people I've
[42:03] tried melee peaking in EOC and if people
[42:05] aren't aware of what it does is easy to
[42:07] remove the prayer and then get the
[42:08] damage down because a lot of people in
[42:10] PvP they will protect prayer because
[42:12] they feel they can't you can't outdo the
[42:15] damage is being done yeah part of the
[42:17] problem is that the damage is so high
[42:19] and actually sticking on that prayer and
[42:21] getting the fifty percent damage
[42:22] reduction seems to be a way of actually
[42:24] making the damage culpable but then
[42:26] nobody ever dies you like a KO here
[42:28] that's why smash is good but at the same
[42:30] time it can be I repeat I'm thinking the
[42:32] effects that you have between the combat
[42:35] styles you need more similarities
[42:37] between them so the combat styles have
[42:39] like matches like for example you've got
[42:41] mail a threshold slaughter like it does
[42:44] triple damage when the target moves but
[42:45] it's a basic for range it needs more
[42:47] balance between the combat triangles so
[42:49] it actually means people that means to
[42:51] call my triangle can actually work and
[42:52] gives a reason to use different styles
[42:54] yeah we want to do that but at the same
[42:56] time we want to keep a kind of a style
[43:00] to each style so so we want you know
[43:03] made to be that disabler and farcaster
[43:05] and we want range to be the kiter that
[43:09] keeps you bound and moving around yeah
[43:10] because it's something if majors meant
[43:12] to be from distance you have dragon
[43:13] breath as an ability which needs to be a
[43:15] male a distance there's a lot of
[43:16] disparities between that no one's using
[43:18] during a brief survey listen you didn't
[43:19] pvm so well as an adrenaline gain our
[43:23] bet yeah cool anymore for anymore
[43:28] um the death swiftness for the range
[43:32] ability yeah that can really like waste
[43:37] Amelia at the Mormon and I was using it
[43:40] the other day when I was doing range but
[43:42] maybe you know the the melee one that
[43:45] sort of metal a version of it it doesn't
[43:48] actually do any damage when you're
[43:49] attacking someone else it only heals
[43:51] here which is kind of like lame really
[43:53] it doesn't really do much so maybe if
[43:56] you're Melia you could maybe get
[43:58] something where you could target person
[44:00] so that hits them rather than light
[44:03] metering the reason why managing
[44:05] Keller's because Mellie has berserk
[44:06] which is the equivalent and if you're
[44:09] having trouble then I suggest you barge
[44:11] and then kick them out of their range
[44:14] area yeah but that doesn't always work
[44:17] yes yeah you know they've got
[44:18] anticipation but then if they can get
[44:20] you and then your sort of life bound to
[44:22] the spot and then devran backwards
[44:24] that's part of the problem with the
[44:26] freedom being overloaded well I mean
[44:27] Mellie's really only useful when you're
[44:29] in a group situation as a single way
[44:31] it's useless Melanie the gaps loser
[44:34] basically yeah yeah cool anymore guys
[44:38] for a lap dancer like last two minutes
[44:40] last one okay be maybe last one maybe
[44:43] not depends are quick you are ok I just
[44:46] wanted to go back to the point made by
[44:48] you so I don't know your name and about
[44:51] adrenaline and PPP being arrays to get
[44:55] adrenaline and if you can't do that well
[44:57] then you've lost the fight and I just
[44:59] want to link that back into special
[45:00] attacks because I know a lot of players
[45:02] are upset that special attacks have gone
[45:03] I mean God swords and dragon claws
[45:05] they're just not worth what they were
[45:07] before and people just plainly don't use
[45:09] them I just thought there might be a
[45:11] good idea if we could use special
[45:14] attacks again maybe to solve that issue
[45:16] by allowing players out of the option of
[45:19] building up adrenaline to use a big
[45:21] attack or going straight in there with a
[45:23] special attack may be losing adrenaline
[45:25] as a consequence to solve that issue one
[45:29] of the reasons why we use the adrenaline
[45:31] system is because spec attacks had a
[45:33] problem where you had access to instance
[45:35] spike damage and that was causing people
[45:37] to one hit KO that's something we don't
[45:39] like the
[45:40] problem we have a brain about spec
[45:41] attacks is it's really hard for me to
[45:44] pitch it I know aughh isn't very odd
[45:48] doesn't want us to make certain weapons
[45:53] Opie though it doesn't want to make
[45:55] people have to have a massive armory but
[46:00] I think that's something that we can
[46:02] work on and I think there has to be some
[46:04] middle ground there there has to be some
[46:05] some way that we can get them back for
[46:08] you because it's a massive point I get
[46:09] it again and again and again and again
[46:11] does that mean you never consider
[46:13] bringing special text back ever would
[46:15] you go that far no I would not go that
[46:17] far would say the is a contentious issue
[46:21] the we're gonna have to back and forth
[46:23] about wife carrying on what's time Sarah
[46:29] is I ok cool unfortunately that's it for
[46:33] the questions part and discussion part
[46:35] this is the only this is only the first
[46:38] step of our PvP journey from now on and
[46:41] quick fine code up there for the forum
[46:43] get on there start posting feedback John
[46:46] and I'll be wandering around the event
[46:47] for the rest of the day if you want to
[46:48] come and grab us for a chat please do so
[46:51] and yeah keep the ideas coming in
[46:54] because we really want this to be about
[46:57] the PvP community and jagex coming
[46:59] together and solving the problem
[47:01] together because I think up until now
[47:03] it's been us trying to do our thing
[47:05] trying to figure out what you want kind
[47:07] of getting confused on the message that
[47:09] you're giving and then you guys getting
[47:12] a bit it's not what we said god damn it
[47:14] so yeah we really want to be this to be
[47:17] a bit more back and forth we want to
[47:19] find out exactly what you think will
[47:21] will fix the wilderness fix PvP in
[47:24] general and we want to try and do that
[47:26] in such a way that we can a satisfy you
[47:28] guys who are already established p cares
[47:31] and bring loads more people back into
[47:33] the fold so we get a new fresh blood
[47:35] into the cycle and that's it for today
[47:38] though in this discussion thank you very
[47:40] much thank you very much for coming