Transcript of RuneScape Podcast 91 - The Dragonkin, Mod Pi's music and Scamming!

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[00:07] hello and welcome to this week's
[00:09] runescape podcast I'm mod Matt he your
[00:12] podcast monkey and today we're straight
[00:14] across the law corner with mod Osborn
[00:16] hello and welcome to the law corner a
[00:19] bit like a fruit corner but with more
[00:22] story or intellectual people like Maude
[00:25] Rowley and modesty but no mod Raven
[00:26] there's no more driving this time what
[00:28] we're going to do i was about to make an
[00:29] inappropriate joke by Sean okay okay so
[00:34] we're gonna talk about dragon king
[00:36] should we get that ago yeah see no no
[00:40] would be Cara pack says no now the
[00:45] dragon Cano's I actually found it tough
[00:47] like forming a script for this because
[00:48] trying to figure out where we where we
[00:50] started the dragon kin to some time ago
[00:52] with paws i would say probably robert
[00:55] the strong content so we're talking kind
[00:56] of tech content tale of two cats tell
[00:58] her cheek at don't know if that was the
[01:00] first named rob but yeah it was the
[01:02] first time we thought and so if your
[01:04] alluring thieves yes please get hold of
[01:05] us and tell us if it was earlier than
[01:07] that but certainly not an earnest and
[01:09] first sight of dragon ken was telling
[01:13] two cats and i know that um whenever
[01:17] I've talked to mod mark it's been sketch
[01:19] seized from Dark Crystal mmm has been
[01:22] the kind of reference point so I know he
[01:24] was kind of working with Paul informing
[01:27] them from the drunken so don't know
[01:28] these guys they're they're the kind of
[01:30] bad guys in the dark crystal Jim Henson
[01:31] moving certainly in terms of look I mean
[01:33] they have that whole hunched vulture
[01:36] really ancient looking but the kind of
[01:40] the thing that the defines drag again is
[01:44] somewhat unique yo yo sorry awesome ones
[01:47] i want you think actually broken you're
[01:49] all much very unique it's crazily unique
[01:51] is is unique to escape but yeah the
[01:55] Skeksis themselves don't have the same
[01:57] sort of rules that dragon can do yeah
[01:59] and what were those rules i mean just
[02:01] for those who don't know you'll have to
[02:03] remind me to be like dark crystal was
[02:05] really old yeah absolutely front in
[02:07] thursday night's fine so with originally
[02:10] that i think they were just the kind of
[02:11] malevolent force that people didn't know
[02:12] much about he's kind of a mysterious
[02:13] ancient very powerful force that kind of
[02:17] kept to the shadows but what only one
[02:18] person has ever really been known
[02:20] we've killed so that's what with the
[02:21] strong I don't really know if there was
[02:23] anything beyond that so it's very much
[02:26] the kind of the George of the Dragon
[02:27] judging the drivers I whole connection
[02:29] with dragon metal items yes saying that
[02:33] they were forged by the necra surtees
[02:35] yeah in faerie content I think I think
[02:39] that was the main connection hmm beyond
[02:41] those things you just stay here but I
[02:43] think it's just perfect example of how
[02:45] story was generated like a long time ago
[02:47] it wasn't that with ours you know page
[02:49] after page of reference material on our
[02:52] confidence pages and you know I a story
[02:54] Bible wasn't as if there was loads of
[02:56] law councils and law developers like
[02:58] there are now it was just Paul dropping
[03:01] in a few things that he quite liked the
[03:02] sound of and eventually those all
[03:05] coalesced into what we're working with
[03:06] now and the start was that these were
[03:07] just kind of Dragon humanoids that kind
[03:11] of hid in the shadows and probably had a
[03:13] wilderness fortress of some kind but um
[03:15] yeah they really kind of like to come to
[03:17] the fore properly with rich with mad rap
[03:19] did you say that's when it's kind of
[03:21] stepped up a little oh my yeah to the
[03:25] fore certainly I mean we certainly
[03:26] dropped lots of hints say with the
[03:28] release of demon hein yeah with the
[03:31] architecture on the surface being
[03:32] inspired by dragon kin yeah and there
[03:35] are some little hints in there too like
[03:36] the floor patterns and things like this
[03:38] yeah that's it we start around where
[03:40] they first started to make their kind of
[03:43] mark on on the story of the aim it's
[03:46] like getting kind of named dragon ken
[03:47] heard them talk well overly outside of a
[03:51] kind of a singular cut scene from the
[03:52] not that it was pronounceable so is a
[03:54] good job we weren't doing vo with what
[03:58] is differ differ well does that point
[04:02] was that they were meant to be like a
[04:03] force a force of nature they weren't
[04:05] meant to be individuals there were just
[04:07] an angry force and then determinately
[04:10] they had names but they were all very
[04:11] similar she could confuse them and that
[04:14] was on purpose because they were they
[04:15] weren't they weren't individuals they're
[04:17] a group and then of course now we're
[04:20] getting to the point where we're
[04:21] starting to form them into nectar
[04:23] surtees induct hill it's like become
[04:25] individuals because cara pack is talking
[04:26] and things like that so it's slightly
[04:28] kind of diverging from that now he's
[04:29] becoming really irritating that they've
[04:31] pretty similar names as Chris happened
[04:33] yeah I think we've we've started to give
[04:38] some it was wild graphic sleeps actually
[04:40] wasn't it it was the certain death the
[04:43] forests and Muslims that was the first
[04:45] getting and it was I can't remember
[04:49] which one it is but the one that's now
[04:51] become the comedy one the one who keeps
[04:53] something why you actually playing yes
[04:54] jails yeah so he's got personality at
[04:58] least they've been a terrific I guess
[05:02] other interesting names like that have
[05:04] that kind of dragon kin feel like calla
[05:07] bath and foresight I believe it okay
[05:10] yeah that was a bit of an awkward one
[05:11] actually because they meant to have hard
[05:13] continents done to the word we had to
[05:15] name it off to a player Dragonforce a um
[05:18] yeah I had their names but we didn't eat
[05:20] those make it dragon Kim but it felt
[05:22] appropriate yeah well it was a right way
[05:24] to tie him into the environment and that
[05:26] seemed to fit the law yeah um and then
[05:28] you know it happened to be beneficial
[05:30] that he had a name dragon for say it
[05:32] since into Wright's office is a work of
[05:34] cilia mintage where to have to pronounce
[05:36] the see as a que ya listener but we
[05:38] certainly determined to make more of the
[05:40] most characters and to give them unique
[05:42] approaches to their HQ with cheese
[05:44] trying to the stone of jazz I think this
[05:46] is another thing that was developed over
[05:47] time which is I know talking to Paul
[05:51] originally he felt his original thought
[05:53] was the dragon kin were creations failed
[05:55] gods there was talk of something I
[05:57] remember from his nose at least those
[06:00] notes of that existed yeah of something
[06:02] called a soul prison yes yeah and I
[06:05] think I was couple of mentions in Game
[06:06] of the soul prison and that that was oh
[06:10] gosh we should da homework before this
[06:13] notion it was effectively it was the
[06:17] spiritual force of the dragon kin that
[06:20] were trapped within the stone or a you
[06:24] know big by the stone yeah sorry yeah
[06:26] physically within it and they okay they
[06:29] were manifested as they were needed
[06:32] basically and then they went back food
[06:34] yeah that's it almost like someone
[06:35] creatures so many familiars you know
[06:36] you're dragging them from the spirit
[06:37] realm and then chucking the back this
[06:39] whole prison was like yeah or localized
[06:41] under
[06:41] world yeah something like that it seems
[06:43] to echo the old akin to in some respects
[06:45] you know these creatures that I'm
[06:46] spawned are difficult and then return to
[06:48] this the saucepan yeah I mean certainly
[06:50] is a theme that's running throughout
[06:53] runescape and yeah it's been picked up
[06:55] on like we had the concepts from Paul's
[06:57] no yes but the dragon kin themselves
[07:00] have taken a bit of a different part
[07:02] yeah I like that we've moved away from
[07:03] them being actual creations like formed
[07:05] out of the sacred k of planets whatever
[07:07] you want to call it that I feel like
[07:09] that the Tsar and the taka feel
[07:12] appropriate you know as a creation from
[07:14] a kiln they feel like they are formed
[07:17] out of the you know this kind of
[07:19] primordial Rock and but the dragon can
[07:23] felt more complex than that they felt
[07:24] like they had a history and we could use
[07:26] that history that's where we've moved
[07:27] away from that they were actually goes
[07:28] more of a curse that were tied to the
[07:31] stone of jazz as a reaction to something
[07:32] which will probably explore yeah more I
[07:34] think that was one of the drivers that
[07:36] made us want to make them unique and
[07:39] special snowflakes and I think it was
[07:41] again we're going back to the whole hey
[07:43] it was around the time of the world
[07:44] wakes thing yeah where we determined
[07:48] that they were the sole surviving race
[07:51] from the previous iteration of the
[07:53] universe it had previous revision I'm
[07:55] wanting to keep them special in that
[07:57] regard by there being no other races and
[07:59] you're absolutely right in that way yeah
[08:02] and that allows us I mean that gives us
[08:04] so much storage space I mean you don't
[08:05] have you can obviously start imagining
[08:08] some stories not necessarily going to do
[08:09] them but you know what happened to the
[08:11] peopling they might have left behind you
[08:13] know what was it like in a previous
[08:14] revision can be ever go there I'm not
[08:16] necessarily saying they were going to do
[08:17] those quests or storylines but it's any
[08:19] opportunities for us I'd love to chat
[08:21] sit down and chinwag with the dragon ken
[08:22] about their DNA their previous revisions
[08:24] hmm that'd be pretty cool I mean there
[08:26] was some things that we abandoned i
[08:28] noted it downhill is it sure whether or
[08:30] not to mention it but I feel like
[08:31] they're like me kid there was a point
[08:32] where when we're talking about the
[08:34] Raptors identity oh yeah yeah that we
[08:37] really like the idea of the Raptor being
[08:39] a dragon kin which obviously is a
[08:42] revelation we never mentioned this
[08:43] before this isn't the direction we've
[08:44] gone with Raptor but it was because it
[08:46] was appropriate it felt like the Raptor
[08:48] was killing for some reason it felt like
[08:52] it felt most arbitrary but if he had so
[08:54] kind of need to kill the rage that the
[08:56] dragon can feel and he is fighting
[08:59] individuals you know I'm never convinced
[09:02] by that just because he'd have had to
[09:05] squishiest now it's not a bit yeah the
[09:08] feet and I think there was this I always
[09:10] had this kind of cinematic moment of
[09:12] like the reveal where these wings and go
[09:14] shing out of the back of his armor and
[09:17] he flies off and everybody goes where
[09:18] and it's not inflates like a balloon but
[09:22] I think we've got something more
[09:23] appropriate for that with the Raptor
[09:25] anyway the dragonkin are now moving one
[09:28] of the pillars of our six age 39 it's
[09:31] changed subtly we're going to tell those
[09:33] three pillars can currently sits list
[09:35] goes endgame the Elder Gods and the
[09:37] dragon ken was having to drag again but
[09:39] it feels we're moving more to the dragon
[09:41] kin is the story that were telling after
[09:42] a lot the storyline we're telling now I
[09:45] think that's appropriate because
[09:46] otherwise we're just spinning too many
[09:47] plates at once I will get to it
[09:49] eventually but that is led to us forming
[09:51] two groups the necro thirties and the
[09:52] dag till you want to tell us a bit more
[09:55] about why we did that do you remember I
[09:57] know some reasons I'm not sure if i
[10:00] should say them well we're not quite
[10:01] there yet oh we hate it oh the reasons
[10:03] what right reasons why we did it yeah
[10:06] conflict is good yes it's generated
[10:10] dramatic tensions yeah we had some kind
[10:14] of conflicting older law and it was a
[10:18] nice way to show this up to say well
[10:20] it's all dragon kin related but there
[10:23] were these two factions so which faction
[10:25] yeah I could easily have just been
[10:27] another world ending force which is
[10:28] exactly where the dragon killer going
[10:29] yeah we had to defeat a world-ending
[10:31] force and there's not much kind of so
[10:33] many shades of grey bear but then we
[10:34] provide to see themes within say that's
[10:37] our TOC are the stupid yo Don and the
[10:41] whole thing with the Dragon Riders and
[10:43] their infertility yeah so this kind
[10:45] split into thoughtless splitting
[10:47] together you could see these kind of so
[10:49] it's another way of life as well that I
[10:51] mean it there are very subtle
[10:53] differences between these things yeah
[10:55] with the with the dactyl I mean that's
[10:57] allowed us to explore something that was
[10:59] only very barely touched on in the early
[11:00] days of Dragon King which is the Dragon
[11:02] King creative dragons yes sorry and that
[11:04] why were they creating dragons and that
[11:06] was when we were in
[11:07] wakes made sense though creating the
[11:09] Dragons because they were researching a
[11:10] way of reproducing the way of basically
[11:13] producing more dragonkin that weren't
[11:15] tied to the stone of jazz and then we
[11:17] kind of drill down into that and then
[11:19] that creates carrot pack and lot the
[11:21] histories of the Dragons a lot were
[11:22] you're talking about with ruined dragons
[11:24] that have been draggin ssin and fork I
[11:25] but we still had to have that more
[11:27] primal force that would go off and kill
[11:29] gods and both users yeah and working
[11:33] with one of those two factions how that
[11:35] might tie a wood storage like Sarah's
[11:36] you know we've got some great ideas for
[11:38] what's going to happen for the future of
[11:39] the Dragon King storyline to be honest
[11:41] and there's always the joy of writing
[11:44] for Cara pack I know moderators not here
[11:46] he got to write carob pack and I think
[11:49] there's something about writing for a
[11:51] character who just shuts down the player
[11:53] let's enjoy in that I think would you
[11:56] like to Mike Cara back it would seem to
[11:58] be easy to yes there's monosyllabic like
[12:01] I don't like no no I prefer to just
[12:03] quote him yeah just got that stock it
[12:06] kind of jpg that you just put into your
[12:08] kind of Twitter chat whenever you hater
[12:09] yeah I'm sure kelpie uses that the time
[12:12] it's pretty much how he acts on the sofa
[12:14] during live streams we could just
[12:15] replace him during the ninja quickfire
[12:17] it's put care about there yeah
[12:19] absolutely I think there's a triumph of
[12:21] characterization though we had these
[12:22] rank in which were previously quite
[12:24] interchangeable and she's meant to
[12:26] establish one that has a unique and
[12:28] character and personality yeah I chose
[12:30] it was also albino as well did we make
[12:32] him out by now yeah I don't know if
[12:34] there's it was determining the albino
[12:35] but certainly that very much paler I
[12:37] think what we're talking about why it's
[12:40] Tyson with the white dragons as well
[12:41] wasn't it yes yeah the white trainers
[12:43] really ties into that but you felt like
[12:44] it was Parviz blood but I know that we
[12:46] were joking that it's the it's the
[12:48] typical type of things the nerd who
[12:51] stays in and kind of researches things
[12:53] doesn't get out much and therefore has
[12:54] paler skin but I'm sure that's an
[12:57] appropriate I mean politically correct
[12:58] better yeah and just around out I guess
[13:02] the dragon king and you were talking
[13:03] earlier to me before podcast about
[13:05] planet iron so this is the dragon rider
[13:08] planet right yeah i mean this is this is
[13:10] not necessarily canonical so yeah still
[13:12] in discussion it's just things the Raven
[13:14] and I have discussed in the past when
[13:16] when he was working on one of kind and
[13:18] it was the idea that the planet Eire
[13:21] he's also from the previous cycle and
[13:23] was the homeworld of the dragonkin yeah
[13:26] and it was just left untouched by the
[13:28] older gods because there's the whole
[13:31] thing with marv and what's tomorrow eh
[13:32] yeah so I think there is some mention
[13:36] info the gods about aya about about ma
[13:40] something happening at that point yeah
[13:43] and we're kind of like the idea that the
[13:45] dragonkin and the then the Dragon Riders
[13:48] they're connected in more more way sneak
[13:51] up on you yeah it's late on your lessons
[13:53] that's kind of affected and that they're
[13:55] kind of like a second not generation but
[13:58] like the new species of the new cycle
[14:01] that kind of yeah fits that role in this
[14:04] particular unit interesting okay lots of
[14:06] rubbish lots of law rubbish or hopefully
[14:09] you've enjoyed listening to us ramble
[14:11] perhaps the Raven will be back next week
[14:13] let's see it won't be sorry I bet you
[14:16] won't but they won't be I know he's a
[14:18] slacker like that thank you very much
[14:19] for listening to us and do come next
[14:20] week for bumper bomb godless and the
[14:23] anima Mundi and so now I have mud pie
[14:27] with me here to talk about his favorite
[14:29] piece of red cape music hi mud pie hello
[14:31] so what is your favorite piece of
[14:34] risking my favorite piece of runescape
[14:36] music is quite an old one it's called
[14:37] harmony right the reason why it's my
[14:41] favorite is because if I think about one
[14:43] music track the when I was little when i
[14:46] was playing runescape that just
[14:47] instantly the second i hear i get like
[14:50] memories and flashbacks of playing
[14:51] runescape yeah it's harmony so which
[14:54] version of harmony that's a really
[14:56] difficult question because obviously the
[14:58] first version of harmony if we're
[15:00] harking back to you know what why it
[15:03] mate reminds me of you know my days
[15:05] going through lumbridge leveling up like
[15:08] chopping the trees between lumbridge and
[15:11] and drain or and killing the goblins
[15:13] around there yeah but then like I
[15:16] actually quite like the newer versions
[15:18] as well like i like i like the reworked
[15:21] version of harmony we have in the
[15:23] runescape 3 but i also really really
[15:26] like the the viola part of second
[15:29] harmony yep just because the viola is a
[15:31] very emotive instrument and harmony
[15:34] itself
[15:35] like breeds a lot of emotions in me
[15:37] because of all the memories I get so you
[15:40] kind of multiply those two you know like
[15:42] I don't actually well up but it gets
[15:43] closer okay so it means it's just that
[15:47] piece of music for some reason really
[15:48] stroke to you cool weirdoes here it
[15:51] brings about so many awesome memories of
[15:53] when I was younger okay so we'll listen
[15:55] to harmony with various of its
[15:58] variations
[16:08] you
[17:20] you
[17:24] you
[18:06] you
[18:44] you
[19:06] those really are great pieces of music
[19:08] and now we're across two player support
[19:11] with mod infinity to talk about scams
[19:14] hello and welcome to the latest segment
[19:17] of our customer support podcast I'm mod
[19:19] infinity and joined here by mod steve w
[19:21] and mod swede and today we're gonna be
[19:24] talking about scamming em runescape more
[19:25] specifically i can prevent being scammed
[19:28] or the actions were taking against
[19:29] scammers and how it has an impact on the
[19:31] community in general so mod sweet i
[19:33] guess the first question is going to
[19:35] watch the history of scamming it in
[19:36] runescape you've been playing for quite
[19:37] a while so if you can talk to it about
[19:39] that a bit that'd be great cool yeah so
[19:40] i'm a long-term player and over the
[19:42] years I've seen lots of different scans
[19:43] everybody knows the classic free armor
[19:45] trimming scam be free gem cutting if you
[19:49] have a once as well so you putting a
[19:51] rope up if you're trying to sell a whip
[19:52] so you know clear open and look like a
[19:53] whip or selling widow logs or magic logs
[19:56] and you'd get the player to come to the
[19:57] german server changing the k2 a 40 n so
[20:00] say you were buying item 47.4 mill so
[20:02] seven thousand four hundred k you change
[20:04] it to 7404 and it would kind of look
[20:07] like the case they all right okay yeah
[20:09] bit deceit lower so how does he changes
[20:11] to the trading window in the way that we
[20:13] interact with each other in game when it
[20:15] comes to trading all that looks like an
[20:17] exchange and all that kind of stuff and
[20:19] so most of that stuff you've talked
[20:21] about it's going to be removed from the
[20:23] game due to the content changes or the
[20:25] way we've kind of educate players on on
[20:27] the various different scams and so in
[20:30] terms of items going today we forget
[20:31] what what's happening in and what do we
[20:33] know what ass off you see every day and
[20:35] it's the really low level stuff like
[20:36] doubling and begging and kind of trade
[20:39] me you won't regret it and people know
[20:41] what they're doing and you try and scam
[20:42] the scammer or you just trying to test
[20:44] the waters like to see someone offering
[20:45] to double you know we're not going to
[20:47] double it but given 20k anyway just to
[20:48] see the only can say hey look he found
[20:50] me and generally just trust raised in
[20:52] general if it sounds too good to be true
[20:53] it probably is a second thing we always
[20:56] fall back on probably when I hear quite
[20:57] a lot over the Restless podcast it's an
[20:59] important thing with these scams is that
[21:00] it's really annoying you hate to see it
[21:02] a kind of energy e or around / if that's
[21:04] being strapped a spammed a lot but
[21:05] nobody's losing their bank over it so
[21:07] important thing is to just report it and
[21:09] take the fuel it if you want to test
[21:10] don't bother just report it ignore and
[21:13] kind of move on with your playing mm-hmm
[21:15] okay it make sense to me anything else
[21:17] and advice there so that's kind of low
[21:21] level scamming you touched upon their
[21:22] but we can another some in a high level
[21:24] really organized scamming going on which
[21:27] you know groups of people in individuals
[21:28] who don't really play runescape the way
[21:31] it's intend to be played but the going
[21:32] game deliberately looking to scam people
[21:34] and then you know sell that that gold
[21:36] foot from your life money or whatever
[21:37] they do with it so Steve I know you've
[21:39] been looking at how we can tackle that
[21:41] you know on our end and it'd be great if
[21:43] you could talk about that for us yes so
[21:45] we've put a focus on this because you
[21:46] know as you quite rightly say they're
[21:48] there are organized people that are
[21:49] actually not playing runescape that just
[21:51] set out to do one thing which is to scan
[21:53] the you know really high value items and
[21:56] things like party hats yeah which is
[21:58] obviously you know devastating to the
[21:59] person that loses out item either played
[22:02] probably for years and spent hundreds of
[22:04] hours you know to get that item and and
[22:06] when they lose it obviously has a huge
[22:08] impact on them so we've been looking at
[22:09] that and they're quite nasty really
[22:12] these these organized teams is probably
[22:14] three or four people involved in it and
[22:16] they're probably speaking to each other
[22:17] on on a teamspeak or off-site where this
[22:19] sort of organizing themselves and
[22:21] identifying who their victim is who they
[22:23] should try and lure what they should do
[22:24] they kind of follow scripts so they have
[22:27] sort of quite authentic sounding sort of
[22:30] things they'll say to people that they
[22:31] tried to come across that they a friend
[22:33] that are trying to help you there's a
[22:35] kind of fake n Tyler thing going on
[22:37] which is basically where one of the
[22:39] scammers will try and lose someone with
[22:41] a fairly well-known and obvious scam
[22:43] something like a grand seedpod trying a
[22:46] few that and most players will know that
[22:48] that will teleport your way then one of
[22:49] the other scammers will actually engage
[22:51] in conversation and potentially your
[22:52] friend and say you know look that guy's
[22:54] trying to scam you as long as you don't
[22:56] click on that seed pod you'll be ok you
[22:58] know that's what he wants you to do
[22:59] actually we can stand the scammer here
[23:01] we'll split the split the proceeds of
[23:03] this and that's how you know they're in
[23:04] on it there in with the scammer and
[23:06] actually they're trying to sort of
[23:07] distract you from your very focused on
[23:09] you know won't click on the seed pod but
[23:11] actually you know that takes your focus
[23:13] away from something else that they're
[23:14] actually doing there's actually going to
[23:15] get the item off you so you know they're
[23:17] actually in it together you know it's
[23:18] really quite quite sort of deceitful
[23:20] what they're doing
[23:22] and so you know we kind of kind of
[23:24] looked at that and said you know what
[23:26] can we do about it and there's sort of a
[23:28] few things that we looked at and some
[23:31] work that we're doing because you know
[23:32] we want to disrupt these people as you
[23:34] say a lot of the money that they get
[23:36] young going well things up with
[23:37] real-world traders and that's obviously
[23:39] not good not healthy for the game and
[23:42] it's the devastation it causes as well
[23:43] that's really the thing we see it every
[23:45] day and it gets us as much as it gets
[23:47] the people involved yeah absolutely it
[23:49] certainly sounds quite severe very
[23:51] serious as you say that the people who
[23:52] are often victims of these scams that
[23:54] are really veterans right and they've
[23:56] been playing for over a decade and
[23:59] they've got a reinvested account you
[24:00] know and for them to lose a party hat
[24:03] really high buy items as often the end
[24:06] of their game play right there and that
[24:07] explains routing of anything and I'll
[24:09] even so naturally we have a vested
[24:11] interest to stop it's going to
[24:13] high-level organized coming happening
[24:15] Birds you say it sounds quite
[24:17] complicated it sounds quite
[24:19] sophisticated and these guys are often
[24:21] talking off-site using skype or team
[24:23] sweet to organize this and so what are
[24:26] we doing to tackle it and how come we
[24:27] tackling Steve so we've been working
[24:30] with our penal team so thinking was a
[24:32] fantastic they're really passionate
[24:33] about it you know they don't want to see
[24:35] people lose the things they want to see
[24:36] scammers dealt with and they give us a
[24:38] lot of sort of tip offs an advice and
[24:40] suggestions and things that we can do
[24:42] well and also we have our own data
[24:44] science team internally that produce
[24:46] reports for us and we can actually
[24:47] identify where really high value things
[24:49] have been dropped where that's been
[24:51] traded between accounts we can then
[24:52] track those trades see where that
[24:54] money's ended up and it normally ends up
[24:55] with the real world trader yeah
[24:57] importantly if the person that scanned
[24:59] has reported it that gives us some
[25:01] additional evidence that we can look and
[25:03] you know will basically ban these
[25:05] scammers the people are talking to
[25:06] people involved in it at the real world
[25:08] trader they pass on the money too so we
[25:10] kind of identify every day with these
[25:11] really high value items have changed
[25:13] hands normally through some sort of lure
[25:15] or scam and then we'll take them out of
[25:17] the game and we'll also look at their
[25:18] kind of linked accounts as well so very
[25:20] often they're doing the luring or
[25:22] scamming on a throwaway low-level
[25:23] account that don't actually care about
[25:24] we're actually invest some time and
[25:27] effort in so identifying the main and
[25:29] then making sure that gets dealt with as
[25:30] well yeah and then of course the other
[25:31] thing people will notice is that we
[25:33] recently made a change where any item
[25:36] loaded item or stacks of items that
[25:38] worth more than 1 billion GE price it
[25:41] can't be dropped anymore so I know
[25:43] people might think we'll let you know if
[25:44] you earn a party how on earth do you
[25:46] drop it on the floor you know you're
[25:47] just stupid but actually you know as I
[25:49] sort of explained previously you know
[25:51] they kind of quite complicated involved
[25:53] techniques that the lures use where they
[25:55] kind of distract you you think you're
[25:57] actually going to do quite well out of
[25:58] this and it's kind of that deceit that's
[26:01] used to get these items so people do do
[26:03] this you know we see every day you know
[26:05] a number of party hats get dropped on
[26:07] the ground every day and pass to the
[26:08] scammer and Laura not anymore because
[26:10] you know we've made we've made a change
[26:12] to the 1 billion drop we're always
[26:14] looking at wait you know things we can
[26:15] do to change make things better things
[26:17] like that no little content change is
[26:18] always good yes people can let us know
[26:21] about that you know post on the forums
[26:22] or post on Reddit and yeah it's no
[26:24] suggestion you've got to tackle scanning
[26:26] particularly if it's something like that
[26:27] that's quite simple and quick yeah if
[26:29] you do in actually as a big impact so
[26:32] that's something we're doing it we've
[26:33] done in runescape main and we continuing
[26:34] to do looking at the the drop reports
[26:36] every day and they've also got some
[26:38] meetings lined up with the old school
[26:39] team talk too much about that you exit
[26:41] still in very early stages but you know
[26:43] we're aware they're obviously there's
[26:44] very different values in old school so
[26:46] you can't sort of apply 1 billion drop
[26:48] for example but we're looking with the
[26:49] old school team to see if we can make
[26:51] some content changes or some fairly
[26:53] simple patches that will actually stop
[26:54] some of the the common everyday lives
[26:56] that go on in old school alright sounds
[26:58] not really good in it I think you know
[26:59] from my perspective there's loads of
[27:02] teams involved right there's teams
[27:03] inside jagex like ourselves and customer
[27:06] service and our data science team
[27:08] actually content teams as well for
[27:09] making changes to content to help
[27:11] prevent those comments accounts but also
[27:13] you know people outside so the wider
[27:14] community in general you submit knows
[27:16] abuse reports to us giving us evidence
[27:18] that we can investigate but you know I
[27:20] want to echo what you said about RP much
[27:21] right a dedicated team of of people who
[27:24] are giving us tip-offs providing us with
[27:27] that kind of information and those those
[27:29] mute reports which help us tackle that
[27:30] high level organized scamming so you
[27:32] mentioned Steve about the 1 billion drop
[27:35] so the changes we've made very very
[27:36] recently so place can't drop any items
[27:38] it's worth over 1 billion GE value I
[27:41] guess my question and some of the kind
[27:44] of comments of Cena on social on the
[27:46] forums is it's why stop at 1 billion
[27:48] you know why not go down to 500 million
[27:50] four hundred million 30 million what's
[27:52] the process yeah my we did we did think
[27:55] about the level and the value that
[27:57] should be there and we've set it quite
[27:58] high to start with because we do want to
[28:00] get the high level scamming out of the
[28:02] game but we did do a bit of sort of
[28:04] analysis as well and it's all about
[28:05] really the effort and reward ratio if
[28:07] you think about the people they're
[28:08] actually involved in in this luring and
[28:10] scamming they want to sell that item to
[28:13] a real world trader to get money yes oh
[28:14] no we're not involved in these circles
[28:17] and we don't actually know you know
[28:19] their conversations and actually what's
[28:21] going on but for what we can see we
[28:23] think about one in ten times that they
[28:25] try to do things they'll have a success
[28:27] so nine people will tell them to you
[28:29] know disappearing they're not interested
[28:30] when you're asking them to drop an item
[28:32] and there's generally about three people
[28:34] involved in the scam so you know when
[28:37] they're trying to get something like a
[28:38] party head through a drop it would
[28:39] probably take them about one and a half
[28:41] hours to actually do that particularly
[28:43] when you take into account that they've
[28:44] got to launder the money through other
[28:46] accounts break it down maybe get
[28:48] involved in the duel arena to try and
[28:49] transfer the money to try and disguise
[28:50] what they're doing before they send it
[28:52] to real world trader and stuff like that
[28:53] and then of course when they do select
[28:56] money's got to be split between the
[28:57] three people that were involved and
[28:58] there's quite a bit of honor among
[29:00] thieves you know they do tend to split
[29:01] it because I need to keep that team
[29:02] going to do future sort of scamming so
[29:05] actually when you kind of split that
[29:06] reward air between three people over
[29:08] that one and a half hours or so they've
[29:09] put into getting it and if you now say
[29:11] that we'll look if you have that 500
[29:14] million so the situation now is that
[29:16] they'd have to do that with an item say
[29:18] 500 million because they can't drop 1
[29:20] billion so that means they've got to do
[29:22] double the amount of effort now they're
[29:23] still going to get the same proportion
[29:25] of people telling them that they're not
[29:26] going to drop the item so we've got
[29:27] double the timing to get the same reward
[29:29] the same amount of items they can sell
[29:31] to real-world traders and when you
[29:33] divide out between the three people the
[29:34] time it takes it's just no longer worth
[29:36] it so I mean that's why we kind of
[29:39] picked the 1 billion bullet we consider
[29:40] dropping it but obviously we want to be
[29:42] aware of you know clans want to drop
[29:44] things to each other that's a particular
[29:45] part of the important part gameplay
[29:47] there are wealthy players that do want
[29:49] to have sort of high-value drop parties
[29:51] and we don't want to sort of interfere
[29:52] with that the beauty of the
[29:53] 1,000,000,000 is it doesn't really
[29:55] impact on anyone apart from scammers
[29:57] where I'm open to looking at it and
[29:59] something we might tweak if we can do it
[30:01] without in petrol on too many people but
[30:03] for now it seems to be hitting harden
[30:05] and doing what we intended fantastic so
[30:08] you might think well it's all very well
[30:09] talking about this but you know does it
[30:11] actually make any difference and I know
[30:13] that mod swings been been keeping an eye
[30:15] on some of the numbers some of the
[30:16] impact that we're having with with the
[30:18] scamming stuff and so on yes when you've
[30:20] got some figures to share surely yes so
[30:22] using the BR reports mentioned earlier
[30:24] by Steve we've started the initiative
[30:25] which targets high value item scamming
[30:27] so this is something I've been working
[30:28] on I've been supported by mod cake so
[30:30] essentially we're identifying high-value
[30:32] scams and then targeting like Purton
[30:34] banning the people responsible for it
[30:36] there's lots of investigative work
[30:37] involved so edition entered banning we
[30:39] if we've seen accounts hijacked and used
[30:41] for it or secure it if we see the GPS
[30:43] been transferred to some sort of mule
[30:45] then we'll forward that to ICU for
[30:47] further investigation so then we can
[30:48] target the mass creation tools they're
[30:50] using since we've began reporting
[30:52] there's 206 accounts of in band for a
[30:55] total load for 310 billion of wealth in
[30:57] items and GP Wow and some really top
[31:00] level accounts involved as well so
[31:02] example does a max account with over 30
[31:03] built on that account so lots of rares
[31:06] lots of gold lots of other items mmm
[31:08] another account this was quite
[31:09] interesting was a max the count 14 years
[31:12] old with over seven hundred twenty-five
[31:13] days played it's a really invested
[31:15] account unfortunately they seem to fall
[31:17] into the dark side have started scamming
[31:18] but they're not say from it will still
[31:20] ban them anyway yeah yeah an important
[31:22] thing here is we don't discriminate here
[31:24] between members free players
[31:25] long-serving players veterans for our
[31:27] way accounts if you're involved in
[31:28] scamming under and if it's high level if
[31:30] you're literally ripping people's bangs
[31:31] away and destroying their gameplay and
[31:33] their enjoyment of runescape you know
[31:34] you're out vile game mmm that's a strong
[31:37] message thank you Steven and Maureen so
[31:40] it's something it's been really really
[31:42] successful so far from that you know the
[31:44] stats you've just read out there so yeah
[31:47] we're just going to recover and the
[31:49] things you've talked about we're aware
[31:51] that historically they've been some
[31:53] really low level scamming am runescape
[31:56] majority of those scams are now gone and
[31:58] they're not being used anymore however
[32:00] we are aware of things like doubling
[32:02] money and you know trust rate it which
[32:04] are happening in a grand exchange and an
[32:05] absolutely that they're important to it
[32:07] because we know that community dislike
[32:09] seeing that and you know what our advice
[32:11] is is reported
[32:13] ignore those players and rest assured
[32:15] that our teams are looking into that and
[32:17] we will apply temporary mutant and
[32:19] eventually remove those plays out of our
[32:20] game if they're being persistent but you
[32:23] know use common sense you know don't
[32:25] give a strange your money it's very
[32:26] unlikely you know that they're going to
[32:28] double it for you for nothing at all in
[32:31] terms of high-level scamming well Steve
[32:32] you've spoken about the different tools
[32:34] and his teams working with internally
[32:35] jagex and I'll p mod to tackle that and
[32:38] report on it and swing you obviously
[32:40] just mention there that we've recently
[32:41] started an initiative to tackle that
[32:43] high level scamming if I start to take
[32:45] out the big players involved in that in
[32:46] that organized group so what's left is
[32:48] my question I guess so modest we can you
[32:50] tell us what you've noticed Dylan and
[32:51] what we're tackling still sure so
[32:52] there's still some scams I've been here
[32:54] since to kind of dawn of runescape and
[32:55] that's anything involving combat I mean
[32:57] back in the day it would simply be to
[32:59] follow me I'll give you something and
[33:00] I'll lead you to the wilderness
[33:01] obviously there's no wall no ditch just
[33:03] you'll enter the wilderness and I'll
[33:05] kill you well now that's changed and
[33:07] those multiple avenues for it kind of
[33:09] fake teammates so they'll offer the
[33:11] partner with you if in PvP you and then
[33:13] they'll backstab you they'll kill you
[33:15] for your items like scams involving the
[33:17] purple portal so again now try and lure
[33:19] you into the purple portal to dangerous
[33:21] portal to again try and get your items
[33:24] they'll friend you and then ultimately
[33:26] betray and very kind of a bit scamming
[33:29] essentially but we know d abyss is
[33:30] really good places to Train come back
[33:32] quickly some people will offer to kind
[33:34] of by your spot because it's hard to get
[33:36] a good spot there so many people using
[33:38] it mhm and then to do that I'll take you
[33:40] out of the wilderness and an obeah team
[33:41] waiting to kill you so again all of
[33:43] these involve people befriending you
[33:45] offering use good stuff and then
[33:47] betraying you ok now that keep your wits
[33:49] about you yeah exactly so another one
[33:51] we're seeing as naming personation
[33:52] usually involving clans and kind of
[33:54] really distinctive people in these clans
[33:56] so anyone kind of like you exchange an
[33:58] elf or an eye in a name so the name
[34:00] looks similar they'll pretend to be that
[34:02] person you know maybe a clan leader
[34:03] someone you respect and trust you then
[34:05] they'll try and get you to give them
[34:06] items this is easily avoided simply
[34:08] boiled looking the account is it ready
[34:10] on your friends list look at the clan
[34:12] chat is actually got an icon as it
[34:13] ranked in the clan and there's look at
[34:15] the level so I mean you have to see them
[34:16] in person to give them stuff so make
[34:17] sure it's this person level 40 and you
[34:20] expect them to be max or something that
[34:21] are here just do detective work for you
[34:23] give away your items okay cool Steve
[34:25] yeah
[34:26] a couple for me I think tap scamming
[34:28] which is something that people probably
[34:30] aware of and this is where someone
[34:31] engages you in a trade in a conversation
[34:33] they want to buy a high value item off
[34:34] of you so Halloween mask or something
[34:36] like that you know knock staff dies or
[34:39] whatever and actually they're kind of
[34:41] often you're quite a good price sounds
[34:42] like quite a good deal you're going to
[34:43] get more money out of this and you would
[34:44] just selling on the geo and so and so
[34:46] and then what the other player does is
[34:48] basically says that it's another account
[34:50] or friend or a main account that's
[34:52] actually on the same world in a
[34:53] different part of the map location and
[34:55] they'll offer you a teleport tab said
[34:57] you can go meet this other account and
[34:59] can relieve the trade now what they're
[35:01] actually trying to do here is you're
[35:03] showing them your valuable item let's
[35:05] say it's Halloween mask that's in the
[35:06] trade window they offer you a telly tab
[35:09] to take you to where this other account
[35:10] is and they hope that you don't realize
[35:12] that actually the trade your offering is
[35:14] is your valuable item for a telly tab
[35:16] and you'll complete that trade yelling
[35:17] effectively swap your valuable item for
[35:19] a tab and they're just hoping that you
[35:21] don't notice that because they're
[35:22] distracting you in the chat by saying
[35:24] you need to go meet my friend on my main
[35:25] account somewhere else so just be aware
[35:27] of that I mean there are warnings in the
[35:28] trade window that's why it's there I
[35:30] think they're playing on the fact that
[35:32] they're offering you a good deal so
[35:33] they're hoping you're going to quickly
[35:34] kind of accept and move on because you
[35:36] want to complete this trade you know you
[35:38] get a good deal for your item you're
[35:39] selling but yeah just always watch those
[35:40] those tray windows and the other thing
[35:43] with noticed is people asking other
[35:45] players to buy things on the GE they
[35:47] normally say they've reached a limit on
[35:49] certain items or something like that and
[35:51] you know that does genuinely go on you
[35:53] know people do want to do them you know
[35:54] I fought battle staffs for people and
[35:56] things like that because there is a
[35:57] fairly low limit on it but you know
[35:59] sometimes people are just trying to get
[36:01] you to buy something they're actually
[36:02] selling you know a low value item that
[36:04] they're selling a high price in the G
[36:05] they work on the pretense that they're
[36:08] going to once you purchase from the to
[36:10] you they're gonna buy them off from you
[36:11] a good price but actually you know you
[36:13] just completely afraid in the G and by
[36:15] there you know effectively very low
[36:16] value things for a high price and then
[36:18] they just log out walk away or or you
[36:20] know laughs at you and just so you know
[36:22] I'm stupid or something or they just
[36:23] make you feel even worse about it you
[36:25] know lose the money and they kind of rub
[36:27] a bit of salt in the wound as well so
[36:28] you know I think though if you know if
[36:30] it fits you really good friends people
[36:33] you know and they're just genuinely
[36:34] trying to buy a few extra things of
[36:35] reach a limit you know probably can be
[36:37] okay
[36:37] you know always have caution if it's
[36:38] someone you've never met someone who's
[36:40] never seen before someone you don't know
[36:41] and they're just suddenly asking you to
[36:43] buy you know huge volumes of something
[36:45] an inflated price then you know the
[36:47] alarm bells should go off you know why
[36:49] this person doing this they're probably
[36:50] going to scare me yeah alright thanks
[36:53] for that Steve and Maureen so people
[36:55] listening you know we're aware of these
[36:56] scams and we are working hard to tackle
[36:58] them so so if you do come across any I
[37:00] just mention then then you know peace
[37:02] end as a report and we can take a look
[37:03] into that so you've a little bit
[37:06] confused now so the average runescape ER
[37:07] you know just logged in and plays
[37:09] runescape they go skating to do a quest
[37:11] to do some combat whatever they're not
[37:12] kind of thinking about all the potential
[37:14] scams they could come across something
[37:15] it's important to mention that you know
[37:16] scamming is in every world everywhere
[37:18] it's just a core group of people and a
[37:21] loud minority actually cause a lot of
[37:22] impact on on players so it's a lot to
[37:25] take in yeah for me is that I work here
[37:27] there's a lot to take in for me so you
[37:29] know for players you're listening it's
[37:30] going to be a lot for them taking as
[37:31] well so how can people you know equip
[37:34] themselves with the knowledge and the
[37:35] information they need to make sure they
[37:37] don't fall victim to these these various
[37:39] different scams and modest wean I'd
[37:42] really recommend visiting the scamming
[37:44] prevention guides on the support center
[37:45] to access you go to the Rings back home
[37:47] page click support in the top right and
[37:49] virility four sections and then click
[37:51] support guides and then scammer
[37:53] adventure guide we they're one of the
[37:54] top links and it will cover all the
[37:55] scans we mentioned so far it's in really
[37:58] kind of communicable language you'll
[38:00] understand what it is it's kind of ridic
[38:01] to practice basics mmm so I'd
[38:03] familiarize yourself of that and if you
[38:05] follow all the advice there you will not
[38:07] be scammed I can promise you that yeah
[38:08] ok cool so education they're really
[38:10] really important so you know keeping you
[38:13] wits about you know what this gums are
[38:15] it's part of it but Steve obviously
[38:17] taking out these people in our game who
[38:18] are trying to ruin the experience of
[38:20] others is key to so what can play to do
[38:22] to help us do that yeah I mean a really
[38:24] important thing here is if you are
[38:25] unlucky enough to get scammed and
[38:27] hopefully read the scam prevention god
[38:28] you've listened to this podcast you know
[38:29] you will equipped and knowledgeable in
[38:31] your bum get scanned but you know if you
[38:32] do it's really important that you report
[38:35] it to us and report it to us quickly
[38:36] after it's happened now the problem is
[38:39] when you get scanned you sort of go into
[38:41] panic mode or how am I going to get this
[38:42] thing back hello contact jagex you know
[38:45] you're worrying about how much you've
[38:46] lost how you feel for you probably feel
[38:47] a bit stupid as well particular if it's
[38:49] something you know like a fair
[38:50] simple scam you've dropped something on
[38:51] the floor and someone's picked it out
[38:52] for example you probably feel a bit bit
[38:54] dumb about that and don't want a shout
[38:56] about it you haven't got any wits about
[38:57] you but you know actually you know let
[39:00] common sense kick in for us to take
[39:02] action we need a report hit report on
[39:04] the on the on the player you know last
[39:06] that will get as evidence you know when
[39:08] we're looking at this in in a couple of
[39:09] days time and we're trying to put things
[39:11] right and sort things out you know we
[39:12] need that evidence no screenshots don't
[39:15] help us you know they can be doctored
[39:16] and changed even you know people good
[39:18] intent want to supply some screenshots
[39:20] but you know we can't take them as
[39:21] evidence it's not from our systems we
[39:24] need a report generated in runescape and
[39:26] we need it quickly after it's happened
[39:27] so we've captured all the evidence so
[39:29] all the other things you might be
[39:31] thinking about how I get my stuff back
[39:32] and we're going to rebuild my bank put
[39:35] that to one side for a moment and just
[39:36] think what do I need to do right here in
[39:37] the moment and that's actually reported
[39:39] so that we can actually deal with in
[39:40] take action okay thanks Steve and so I
[39:43] think the the phrase which underlines
[39:46] all of this scouting prevention advice
[39:49] is if it sounds too good to be true
[39:51] probably is I think we all should keep
[39:54] that phrase fresh in our minds but I
[39:57] think that's been a brief or podcast
[39:58] actually it's good to get insight into
[40:00] the work we do behind the scenes to
[40:01] tackle that scamming both the low level
[40:03] and that high-level organized coming and
[40:05] hopefully people listening to this
[40:06] podcast will have a better understanding
[40:07] of exactly what we do and how we work if
[40:10] I don't have any feedback or questions
[40:11] or comments then let us know by tweeting
[40:14] at gigantic support alternatively we're
[40:17] on the forms and on social media to
[40:19] things like reddit so as Steve said
[40:20] earlier any suggestions and how we can
[40:22] help prevent scamming no posting on
[40:23] reddit and we'll take a look at that as
[40:25] well but I guess from is it is goodbye
[40:27] so it's bye from me but if any goodbye
[40:29] for me thanks listening from what Steve
[40:31] w as goodbye from me once weaned all
[40:33] right bye-bye thanks for listening and
[40:36] be sure to catch us next time bye
[40:42] you