Transcript of RuneScape Podcast - The Elder Gods, more music and the Macro Ban Initiative!

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[00:07] welcome to this week's runescape podcast
[00:09] i'm your host mod matt he and first of
[00:12] all we're straight across to mod osborne
[00:14] and low corner hello and welcome to the
[00:17] law corner we're too lovey Elder Gods
[00:19] this time happened and I've got Raven
[00:22] stew and Rolly hey hey hey so I was not
[00:25] prepared for that voice is a comedy
[00:28] explain it it's not a good voice anyway
[00:31] so yeah this yeah older gods where to
[00:35] start with them because they were only
[00:37] kind of reference mine early in the game
[00:39] content like in the early days we're
[00:41] talking like that kind of the pool days
[00:43] elder gods weren't prevalent at all in
[00:45] fact they were just this kind of being
[00:46] spoken off in hushed tones I think stone
[00:50] of jazz was probably the most and the
[00:53] largest referenced the old gods and a
[00:54] blue Griffin on the Oracle yeah bleak
[00:56] references on the Oracle you absolute
[00:58] right yeah I think it was just that Paul
[01:00] wanted this kind of MacGuffin the stone
[01:01] of jazz it was extra-powerful how'd he
[01:03] make something this is a powerful well
[01:05] you you say it was made by the older
[01:06] gods i guess and i was it that suddenly
[01:09] the old gods were born because we needed
[01:10] an artifact that was so powerful
[01:11] everybody would want ter so hey we know
[01:14] i don't come easy um and then i think it
[01:17] was full lennox came into play yeah
[01:20] that's my fault also my second Bell to
[01:23] name the signal the elder cooks event
[01:25] when we new partner she was jess and
[01:27] this was the most obscure place you
[01:30] could possibly farmers bit of content
[01:32] when I did the brink of extinction there
[01:34] were these bookcases that you could get
[01:35] a little bit of law out of and then
[01:37] there was one bookcase at the end what
[01:40] you couldn't translate and players felt
[01:42] that this was something Bob see they
[01:44] just hadn't found the solution to yet
[01:45] and they want some way to get it so I
[01:47] create this rather elaborate treasure
[01:50] hunt in order to find the thing and we
[01:52] need as a lord put on there and I was at
[01:53] the time when you were working out the
[01:55] details of who the Elder God took only
[01:56] and started to see deaden and with the
[01:59] taka being the creations of the Elder
[02:02] Gods fashion and all the artifact
[02:04] themselves they want to depth a few
[02:06] creatures that would have had any kind
[02:09] of inter relationship with them so they
[02:10] might have know something about them and
[02:11] was opportunity to see that a little bit
[02:13] so including there was also a reference
[02:15] to a second old aquatic full yeah
[02:18] and interestingly that the name for that
[02:20] I stole that from a wonderful game from
[02:24] play to my childhood dungeon master was
[02:26] sort of like this I'd be called a first
[02:27] person who fell game and you made these
[02:30] spells out of ruins and the room for
[02:32] fire was full gotcha Wow well that's a
[02:35] great reference ID and that's one yeah
[02:37] yeah definitely played that in there
[02:38] back in the day so was this at the time
[02:40] the world wig was not in development but
[02:44] we were starting to discuss the other
[02:45] girl it was just after World whiter it
[02:47] was um it's not kicking up actually from
[02:49] the elder kiln as well as with on muddy
[02:52] dams content because it was all this
[02:55] kind of like chain reaction of stuff we
[02:56] knew that the saw had been created some
[02:58] purpose and so by the Elder Gods that
[03:01] had been mentioned I think before had it
[03:03] um regardless they've been there for so
[03:06] long it's like why were they needed who
[03:08] created them and we started talking
[03:10] about jazz and what this kind of jazz
[03:11] might have been and we needed nor do
[03:14] this because of a number of reason we
[03:15] knew we want to bring zeros back but
[03:17] Alice was up ultra powerful and we knew
[03:18] this saradomin was once a human so what
[03:20] was zeros and we thinking well maybe
[03:22] zaros was a child of an elder god so how
[03:27] does that link entailed about and then
[03:28] we just got it just kept on talking we
[03:30] just kept on talking as a group yeah
[03:32] yeah we eventually came to the origins
[03:34] of the universe yeah multiple origins
[03:37] the universe indeed yeah it kind of got
[03:39] about out hand a little bit but I think
[03:41] it's all really good stuff and yeah he's
[03:43] pleased given is a wealth of content
[03:46] over the last three or so years yeah and
[03:48] some that we haven't even told ya yeah
[03:50] into the future it's the kind of the
[03:52] story that we haven't told you is that
[03:54] it there's this huge kind of kiln of
[03:56] story that we just haven't got got to
[03:58] which is good I mean I find it very hard
[04:00] not to reveal it less than nature I do
[04:04] recall we had a bit of a struggle with
[04:07] naming the Elder Gods because we had
[04:09] jasm full established yeah and I think
[04:12] at the time we knew we wanted one of
[04:14] them to be the creator of spoilers as
[04:18] our sarin in the majorette yeah and we
[04:21] were thinking measure out ma is obvious
[04:24] ma ma but I think we were also going for
[04:27] that whole using every vowel we want
[04:30] you have one for each fan I budget to
[04:32] fit so I think at one point she was mo
[04:34] wasn't it more which people would have
[04:37] always changed to my work so we didn't
[04:40] force that one and it was the right
[04:41] decision yeah I think so well I like
[04:44] that there is effectively one for every
[04:47] vowel and more because she is slightly
[04:50] kind of off you know slightly broken
[04:53] she's wrestle yeah yeah she's the
[04:56] relevant man one of the group she's just
[04:58] acting out a little hurt I was quite
[05:00] nice the right a little short story for
[05:02] Eric eridan off the back of the ebay
[05:04] auctions that went into a little bit of
[05:05] her rebellion the first time that she
[05:07] really kind of peeled off which was nice
[05:10] if you get your hands on that they're
[05:12] probably the rarest of all or since when
[05:14] one person's other one you speed read
[05:16] yes he dose available somewhere yeah
[05:20] we've always talked about there may have
[05:22] been other elder gods in the past you
[05:24] never made it no that's that's another
[05:26] thing we've talked about which is great
[05:27] he's told restoring certain numbers yeah
[05:30] indeed but I'm one of the things I want
[05:32] to talk about was the gender of them so
[05:34] that that happened quite late I think it
[05:37] was maybe one had origins a good nor
[05:38] that we were very sure that we wanted
[05:39] them to be female but it's not
[05:42] necessarily female in the you know very
[05:45] difficult to do a character that is
[05:47] androgynous yes I don't defend when I
[05:50] was writing that story though spoken by
[05:53] Taco Hawk my metro that there were
[05:55] female there was making reference to
[05:56] them being the mothers and the creators
[05:59] and yet that sense of birthing new
[06:00] worlds yeah it's a lot of the pronoun
[06:03] it's just where you're using yahoo
[06:04] there's not much beyond that you know
[06:06] they're not using any kind of female
[06:09] stereotypes or anything like this we
[06:11] just wanted to kind of identify them as
[06:13] female so the origins have given also
[06:16] showed them quits quite elemental and I
[06:18] think we've probably moved away from
[06:19] that haven't we definitely yeah they're
[06:22] no longer I mean they're still primal
[06:24] entities but they represent slightly
[06:25] different primal features now Rob the
[06:27] basic element yeah the elements are more
[06:29] of a kind of secondary yeah is a cool
[06:31] feature it took but yeah I philosophy in
[06:34] a focus there's more this round ahead
[06:36] time I gave time and you got going you
[06:38] know it was the time thing that how can
[06:40] I remember how God
[06:41] hang on no well so when was reversion I
[06:46] believe ya ma is potential jazz is a
[06:52] progression yeah that's right a full is
[06:55] about stillness about now yeah p which
[07:00] had another word telling me constancy
[07:03] thank you constant fire and then there
[07:06] was another one burning flame I comment
[07:08] what Marv was it bake was to do with the
[07:09] past yeah okay so it's all about how
[07:11] they develop twelves and what and what
[07:13] they generally do regret yeah regression
[07:16] and reversion and it's all about how
[07:17] different ways of progressing something
[07:19] and promoting world and I really loved
[07:20] that dog different iteration always more
[07:22] it's a matter of perspective I mean
[07:24] we're not looking to make them knowable
[07:25] so yeah when I kind of describe things
[07:27] in yeah in great depth but that they
[07:30] have one or two elements and they have
[07:32] this kind of concept of certain
[07:36] perception of time mmm it starts to head
[07:39] down that rule of not being able to
[07:41] understand what they aren't we are lab
[07:43] see right I'm with origins of given or
[07:45] unfortunately we were just the just the
[07:47] product of its time it was quite hot we
[07:48] had to get that done really quickly yeah
[07:49] yeah and we knew that fall was you know
[07:52] related to volcanoes and fire we knew
[07:54] that jazz had a sandy looking stone so
[07:57] it was like oh there we go let's go four
[07:59] elements which is obviously too easy we
[08:02] want to do something more unknowable I
[08:03] like that yeah I oh god yeah when when
[08:05] we actually come to making one that's
[08:07] like I'd anything small ok I want an
[08:11] elder God in my quest yeah go concept
[08:13] art go that was some of the thoughts
[08:17] that we've had about I want to do the
[08:19] Elder Gods what up I remember the
[08:21] discussion we had after Hart and stone
[08:22] about what we want to do with when yeah
[08:25] it was just a bit kind of yeah not sure
[08:28] how we're gonna do it I think like the
[08:31] first thing that came about from that
[08:33] was we had God's being a human plus and
[08:38] what have you and it's how do you
[08:39] extrapolate from that and we have band
[08:42] offs the version with the four eyes yeah
[08:44] so I obviously you had more eyes right
[08:46] had more limbs yep and that was the
[08:49] whole eight eyes and the return of
[08:52] inheritance
[08:53] you have from sarin with the extra
[08:54] professionals yes it for fate the gods
[08:57] we designed three different kind of
[08:58] important characters of the universe you
[09:00] know an elder God's errand and sounds
[09:02] one time yeah I was really nice that but
[09:04] that allowed us to crate I like my teeth
[09:06] through our brain which we talked band
[09:08] podcast in the past probably yeah but
[09:10] yeah I mean talk about Mars look I mean
[09:12] how much input did you have on that
[09:13] remember it was I know we were pulling
[09:16] back trying to pull back from the alien
[09:17] queen yeah they're pretty thing I mean I
[09:20] think the idea came quite early on
[09:22] having a ties and the kind of spiral of
[09:27] corruption that runs down her body yes
[09:29] those were the kind of main things for
[09:31] me from the get-go but how we went about
[09:34] achieving that from what we got well one
[09:37] of the hardest things particularly
[09:38] concept artists is going to somebody and
[09:40] saying right we want a broken version of
[09:42] something before we get the fixed
[09:43] version or something so we had of you
[09:44] might give it creates an old God but we
[09:46] want it to be performed oh that's hot so
[09:50] um what's nice is that we you know we
[09:52] still got that in our back pocket we
[09:53] could determine what a fully know 40
[09:56] firing our God looks like in the future
[09:57] I'm legend dance I remember it did a
[09:59] beautiful it's going to concept for that
[10:01] very good um I think I can't help but
[10:04] vaguely nice you know that one reference
[10:06] that I always have this concept of a
[10:09] core of energy the same the hell the way
[10:12] we have zero says that kind of cloud of
[10:14] smoke yeah and then we introduce ended
[10:17] that with sarin with the kind of person
[10:19] Korean crystal ball it's just wondering
[10:21] if the older gods were the same and the
[10:23] kind of the humanoid shape the use just
[10:26] a mass of stuff around this kind of this
[10:30] is this hard work is fairly because the
[10:32] others like you've got a star you'd need
[10:33] to be able to God tube like a galaxy
[10:35] economy well this I mean would
[10:37] referencing program probably a little
[10:39] too far but you sing the stone of jazz
[10:40] you seen eggs maybe doesn't necessarily
[10:42] work in the same way as eggs we
[10:44] generally think so we've got some nice
[10:46] ideas for how you know an elder cod my
[10:49] luck yeah I mean there is there was one
[10:51] reference i think that that kind of
[10:53] triggered that and that i can't remember
[10:56] the name of them but a lot of fate the
[10:59] gods story was based around the concepts
[11:02] the concept of Nietzsche and philosophy
[11:04] and I now I bang on about
[11:05] knowledge I do worry about you but part
[11:09] of that was inspired by the old square
[11:11] soft RPG Xenogears oh right which was
[11:15] again a very philosophical storyline and
[11:19] there was a council of elders that kind
[11:21] of oversaw and manipulated everything
[11:23] which is clear themes four zeros and
[11:25] they were just this kind of floating
[11:27] wave form of orbs so there's there's
[11:30] your little reference inside that right
[11:32] that's where it's come from so go play
[11:33] xenogears oh shut up about it now but
[11:38] the set of future of the old gods it's I
[11:40] mean it's one of our three pillars we
[11:41] know they want to do want to do it I
[11:43] remember after heart of stone we were we
[11:46] were struggling to keep all three of
[11:47] these plates yeah and it was a case of
[11:49] to do them justice we really wanted to
[11:51] do one at a time so i would have gods
[11:53] are in the distance yeah i think it's
[11:55] fair to say hey yeah yeah but hotter
[11:58] stone is just that kind of first
[11:59] exploration or yeah it's intended to be
[12:02] a since a lot of the stuff we were doing
[12:04] with the kind of the six HS relied on
[12:07] knowledge of the Elder Gods I realized
[12:09] so one of the biggest complaint barter
[12:10] stone was like the high-level players
[12:12] already knew this or felt that it wasn't
[12:14] more that people should have but it's
[12:15] kind of crucial now but yeah people know
[12:17] of the existence of the older gods they
[12:19] know of like the son of jars of these
[12:21] sort of things so it was kind of
[12:22] bringing that knowledge make it
[12:24] available to everyone and killing off
[12:25] signature heroes I mean I know people
[12:27] have qualms or some people have qualms
[12:28] about the sick days but that's what it
[12:29] really was about it was about bringing a
[12:31] lot of that kind of the high-level
[12:33] storyline down to the lower level yes so
[12:35] that everybody can explore it just yet a
[12:36] different time frame so yeah I mean that
[12:40] was it that was the intention but
[12:42] they're one of the tough bits for us
[12:45] apartment there sighs yeah no potential
[12:47] sighs you know is you know you where do
[12:51] you go from an Elder God power creep is
[12:53] always a concern we're aware of it yeah
[12:56] fully aware of it and we have plans for
[12:58] dealing with we actually know where
[12:59] where to go yond those three pillars and
[13:02] it's not again like Elder Gods is a
[13:05] nonsense right yeah it's not good with
[13:07] that there are different ways to
[13:08] progressive story indeed yeah um so
[13:11] don't worry because I would say but do
[13:15] you wanna key one do you want to work on
[13:18] an older god piece of content
[13:19] would you be interested in exploring
[13:21] that yep yeah yeah I'm particularly the
[13:24] things relating to fall in the
[13:26] background to the taka abundance you've
[13:28] got back this thing yeah you've got that
[13:29] sour origin have any yeah there's a lot
[13:31] of interesting thing ticker where comes
[13:32] to inheritance like the notion that the
[13:34] I can't imagine that full poured aspects
[13:38] of herself into the kiln mmm did since
[13:42] that she was the only thing that [ __ ]
[13:43] she knew of as a living creature debase
[13:45] and these yeah tools on they've got
[13:48] qualities of her in themselves so things
[13:50] like when there's aa lift the kiln and
[13:52] they needed some means of surviving
[13:54] reproducing they reverted back to being
[13:57] able to produce from via eggs something
[13:59] that has it within the physiology of the
[14:00] older gods yeah under stuff i love i
[14:03] love all these parallels we have like to
[14:04] feel my for misson yeah we can't we kind
[14:06] of did the same with zero since aaron
[14:08] and the whole idea of what am I thinking
[14:12] of here i can't i'm sure yet so you're
[14:15] talking about talking about it so in the
[14:17] way they reproduce i wonder how it's
[14:19] like that and how the race is kind of
[14:21] diminishing in a way from top of that
[14:23] son runs around and I diminishing which
[14:25] is diminishing races for the kind of
[14:27] offspring of the older gods and they
[14:29] have the same sort of drive yeah and
[14:31] that all comes from the old God so you
[14:32] have a similar film there we go so we
[14:35] got quite deep in that one my word next
[14:37] time round it's not quite so deep we are
[14:40] talking about the wonderful mr. slits
[14:42] game so join us next time round in the
[14:45] door corner thank you very much and
[14:47] thanks tomorrow's ball and the law team
[14:49] for that discussion and now too much do
[14:52] hello hello mods to so what is your
[14:55] favorite runescape music it is extremely
[14:57] difficult to choose a favorite I am a
[14:59] total fanboy of the music and runescape
[15:02] so I'm going to be in terribly
[15:03] self-indulgent and focus on the projects
[15:05] that I've worked on okay I was
[15:07] originally going to go with some of the
[15:09] music tracks from dimension of disaster
[15:11] because I love the way that we took some
[15:12] of the classic music tracks and twisted
[15:15] them as the sort of Tim burton-esque
[15:17] horror-themed it's less Dahlia yeah
[15:19] exactly yeah and particularly undead
[15:22] army to wait and essentially you say
[15:24] take the signature track of Zimmer eagle
[15:25] and then adding in these glorious and
[15:28] guitar riffs and but still maintaining
[15:30] them the melody of the song but
[15:33] I think for my absolute favorite I'm
[15:34] going to have to go with fighting for
[15:36] like part two okay which is the boss
[15:39] battle theme of differing yeah now
[15:41] that's the culmination of several
[15:43] musical themes running through earlier
[15:46] tracks in the quest it sorta like as
[15:48] you're going on this quest you're also
[15:50] going on a musical journey yeah and
[15:51] there are themes within that final song
[15:55] that were introduced in earlier tracks
[15:56] like skirmish when you're fighting some
[15:58] Black Knights it's rather militaristic
[16:00] you've got these war drums running
[16:02] through it yeah then there's this track
[16:05] when you encounter the ghost of a scent
[16:08] or its this haunting sad slow piano
[16:10] melody is almost ambient and you get
[16:12] elements of that melody and this one is
[16:14] as well and slides back and forth
[16:16] between them and then inviting me flat
[16:18] part one that takes elements of those
[16:21] melodies and then incorporates a little
[16:24] hints of the sort distortion guitar yeah
[16:27] a kind of sense of this corruption and
[16:29] witness creeping into them the overall
[16:32] melody and then that explodes in front
[16:35] and fight flat part two as you're
[16:37] encountering the the witch that that
[16:39] you're fighting and she's corrupt and
[16:40] wicked and she's got this power behind
[16:42] it yeah he's manipulating it is it went
[16:45] with when the audio just works the quest
[16:47] for that it's almost symphonic in that
[16:49] it builds up themes and refrains through
[16:52] the individual pieces until you get the
[16:54] final crescendo exactly and it just
[16:56] sells it yes and the wonderful part is
[16:58] that I had no involvement in doing any
[17:00] of that but seeing that the music team
[17:01] did on the road they understood what I
[17:03] was trying to achieve in terms of the
[17:05] herbs and flows of others the storyline
[17:07] where our climate netters were and
[17:09] achieve that with the music too so I
[17:11] found this final check to be very
[17:13] emotionally affecting and I hope you
[17:14] enjoy it too well let's listen to it
[17:21] you
[20:24] what an awesome piece of music so now
[20:28] we'll go across the mod infinity and the
[20:30] customer support team hello and welcome
[20:32] to the customer support segment of this
[20:34] podcast today we'll be talking about the
[20:35] macro ban review initiative we've been
[20:37] running here in Christmas support as
[20:39] well as providing update where we're at
[20:41] so before we get into that and joined
[20:42] here by not kelvin high and mon steve w
[20:46] steve back for another podcast really
[20:49] looking for tis run actually cuz there's
[20:50] so much talk about this so yeah it's
[20:52] been really good one to nail today
[20:53] alright cool and i'm mod infinity so
[20:56] it's kickoff kelvin so for those who
[20:58] don't know we're talking about orie
[20:59] taking a macro band review initiative to
[21:01] know what is it what we're talking about
[21:02] so we have a situation where players may
[21:06] have a macro ban offense on their
[21:09] account however that offense wasn't
[21:11] committed by the owner of the account
[21:13] now that could be because the account
[21:16] has been shared over time they can't
[21:18] could have been sold or it could have
[21:20] been genuinely hijacked and the
[21:22] information could have been kind of
[21:23] compromised and someone else has got on
[21:24] that account yep so then bought it on on
[21:27] that account so the original iona
[21:29] eventually gets back in control of that
[21:31] account and see that they're banned and
[21:34] currently the was the customer
[21:36] experience from that point of view isn't
[21:38] great there's no direct way for them to
[21:40] contact us we don't generally respond to
[21:42] two bands and what we've done is
[21:45] experiment over time with different ways
[21:47] to try and identify these band accounts
[21:49] and help them out and get them back into
[21:51] game and playing all right and so i know
[21:53] that we've tried quite a few things in
[21:55] the past it can use give us kind of an
[21:56] overview of what those things weren't on
[21:58] why they didn't work yep okay so i mean
[22:00] if we go back five six seven eight years
[22:02] ago we had banner pills so anyone who
[22:04] had a ban on their account could appeal
[22:07] now we did actually get into a situation
[22:09] where we were spammed by literally tens
[22:12] of thousands of banner pills every
[22:14] single week and it became a situation
[22:15] that we couldn't deal with and the other
[22:17] side of it as well was the the vast
[22:19] majority of those people sending in
[22:20] those appeals were spurious claims the
[22:22] offences were genuine though you know
[22:24] that had been committed there weren't
[22:26] hijacked their won't commit by anyone
[22:28] outside of the
[22:29] the owner of the account so for a few
[22:31] years we didn't do anything at all on
[22:32] that and that's kind of where we come in
[22:34] which is you know the customer
[22:35] experience was poor so last year we
[22:38] opened up a couple of band review
[22:39] threads invited people to post names of
[22:42] accounts that they wanted us to review
[22:44] that people thought or were claiming
[22:46] that had an offense and macro offense on
[22:49] the account when they weren't in control
[22:51] of it again similar thing though we were
[22:54] spammed by again thousands of people
[22:56] putting a spurious claim in in there it
[22:58] wasted a lot of our time but we didn't
[23:00] want to give up we wanted to kind of
[23:02] come up with a solution and we actually
[23:04] have a proper solution in mind which is
[23:07] to open up banner pills for members and
[23:09] Forex members vote for ben offenses but
[23:12] we can't do that currently we don't have
[23:14] the development time sheduled until
[23:15] hopefully later on this year or early
[23:18] next year so the minute we've kind of
[23:20] got an interim solution which isn't
[23:21] perfect but we think it's better than
[23:24] doing absolutely nothing we don't ignore
[23:25] these people so what we're doing is we
[23:28] are ourselves reviewing all the accounts
[23:30] that were banned in the previous month
[23:32] to look for who was in control of that
[23:35] account and if the original owner wasn't
[23:37] in control of that account we will then
[23:39] remove the offense and we can drop them
[23:41] a message and we can get them back into
[23:42] play all right okay so they actually
[23:44] started this process back in April and
[23:45] so we were reviewing bands which issued
[23:47] in March so can you talk about what we
[23:49] can have identified and found you know
[23:51] looking at those buns in March okay yep
[23:53] so we had about 350,000 accounts banned
[23:56] for mac rowing in March what we've done
[23:59] is work with our data science team and I
[24:02] bought detection team to develop a
[24:03] series of heuristics to be able to then
[24:06] go through those 350,000 accounts to
[24:09] look for who was in control of the
[24:11] account at the time what we actually
[24:13] found is where offenses were committed
[24:16] not by the original owner of the account
[24:17] in the vast majority of those cases the
[24:21] accounts were either shared or sold
[24:23] there's been information out there and
[24:24] other people have gone to the account
[24:26] and committed the offense and there's
[24:28] also a small number of hijacked accounts
[24:30] in there it's not straightforward
[24:32] process to be honest the profile of a
[24:34] hijacked account is pretty much the same
[24:36] as a profile of a shared or a sold
[24:38] account right but what it can kind of
[24:40] tell you in
[24:41] with a reason event of clarity is that
[24:44] roughly two percent of those 350,000
[24:47] accounts had a macro offense committed
[24:49] by someone who was other than the
[24:51] original owner of the account okay now
[24:53] those two percent of 350,000 what have
[24:56] we done with those those accounts okay
[24:58] so as we've kind of gone through what
[25:00] we've done is if we do identify that the
[25:03] offense was committed by someone other
[25:05] than the owner of the account we removed
[25:06] the offense and if someone else is
[25:09] sitting mishal a bit were we will lock
[25:10] the account down and secure it so the
[25:12] original owner can come back in and
[25:13] recover that account we've also then
[25:15] sent an inbox message to that account
[25:16] just letting them know that our
[25:18] detection systems of figured this out
[25:20] and inviting them to recover their
[25:22] account and get back in and play okay so
[25:25] i guess the messages and if you've been
[25:27] banned in march and you believe you were
[25:29] high debt then go and check your
[25:30] runescape inbox message out and it you
[25:32] know if that's the case and you'll have
[25:33] a message from was waiting there yep
[25:34] with everything what we've done okay so
[25:37] I mean identifying that two percent of
[25:39] those 350,000 accounts we can I said
[25:41] that the the owner wasn't in control of
[25:44] that account but doesn't necessarily
[25:46] mean that as hijacked if you say it
[25:47] could mean that it's been sold or shared
[25:48] and that doesn't sound ideal and say
[25:51] it's an interim solution so looking kind
[25:53] of in the future he's had been looking
[25:54] to introduce ban appeals again yeah so
[25:56] what's the plan with that you know I
[25:57] think players will just kind of ask you
[25:59] know we had fun appeals before my
[26:00] collars turn it back on again and what's
[26:03] the difference between yep doing that
[26:05] okay so last year we brought back
[26:07] offensive Hills 44 mute offenses and it
[26:11] took quite a significant amount of
[26:14] development time to actually do that but
[26:16] it was important it came out in queue
[26:18] and is that we done that was a kind of
[26:19] long-running saw and a point of concern
[26:22] with the communities so we brought that
[26:23] back foot for mute offenses but
[26:24] obviously we didn't want to do it at
[26:26] that stage for ban offenses because of
[26:28] what had gone before because we didn't
[26:29] we just aren't resourced and unable to
[26:32] deal with tens of thousands of banner
[26:34] pills so we kind of looked through it
[26:36] and we think in terms of allowing
[26:38] genuine players a route to contact her
[26:40] sweet we want to do that so we think if
[26:42] people were members at the time of the
[26:44] offense so they're either remembered now
[26:46] or they were previously a member we can
[26:49] open up a fence appeals vote for those
[26:51] and be able to deal with the volumes
[26:53] that come in okay however that will take
[26:56] fairly significant amount of development
[26:58] time then obviously development time is
[27:00] at a premium you know where a game it's
[27:02] about developing core features and
[27:04] gameplay for players and the development
[27:07] time currently is kind of earmarked for
[27:08] lots of other kind of essential projects
[27:10] to do with runescape so we're not in a
[27:13] position right now to be able to say yet
[27:15] definitely at this day offensive odors
[27:18] will come back however it is there it's
[27:20] on a backlog you know constantly kind of
[27:22] have conversations with the owners of
[27:25] development try and get that scheduled
[27:27] and we're thinking maybe towards the end
[27:29] of this year or early next year we might
[27:31] be able to get some of that development
[27:32] time but obviously what we'll do and as
[27:34] we kind of always do is keep people in
[27:37] the loop and we'll make announcements on
[27:39] our forums when we do have an idea of
[27:41] when we can actually do this all right
[27:43] cool thank you and so if just entered
[27:45] tune now so talked about march being
[27:47] reviewed and what about April and May
[27:49] when are they due to be reviewed how
[27:51] fast are we getting on yeah okay so this
[27:53] is an ongoing program for this kind of
[27:56] trial process so throughout May we're
[27:59] reviewing the bands that have happened
[28:00] in April and again as we go we're
[28:03] sending people inbox messages we're
[28:05] removing offenses on accounts etc and we
[28:07] think we're gonna kind of carry on on on
[28:09] this basis um we're probably putting
[28:11] about as much time on this is we think
[28:13] we need to dedicate to offense appeals
[28:16] when we kind of put them in place so
[28:18] there is a kind of finite amount of time
[28:20] that we have to do with this because
[28:21] obviously the rest of our time is about
[28:23] responding two players with tickets and
[28:25] inquiries of making sure we've try and
[28:27] respond to them within kind of 24 hours
[28:29] but the time that we have available we
[28:31] are investing in that and if we have
[28:33] more time available we'll look back at
[28:34] previous kind of historic offenses as
[28:37] well going back in in previous months in
[28:39] previous years can't promise that now
[28:41] but if we do all the time available then
[28:43] we will look at last
[28:45] okay and you know for me it's a genuine
[28:47] surprise to know how many these accounts
[28:50] were sold or shared right I think for me
[28:53] that really highlights the importance of
[28:54] having a rock-solid you know secure
[28:56] account and Steve it'd be really great
[28:58] if you could talk to us about how
[28:59] players and listeners can keep their
[29:00] account secure yeah sure I mean there
[29:02] are really four pillars of account
[29:04] security things that people should can
[29:05] consider when they're one make sure
[29:07] they've got the securest account
[29:08] possible so the first one is your
[29:11] password yes so make sure you've got
[29:12] really strong password don't reuse a
[29:15] password that maybe you normally used
[29:17] for other things or use on other
[29:18] websites because obviously if that
[29:20] becomes known to someone then that
[29:21] they've got your runescape password so
[29:22] make it unique for runescape make it a
[29:24] really strong password secondly is set
[29:26] up the authenticator that's really quick
[29:28] and easy to do you don't have to have a
[29:30] phone you can do any USB stick but yes L
[29:32] up the Authenticator that's that's
[29:34] actually vital and then the third one is
[29:36] the email you need to really think about
[29:37] the email that's set to your runescape
[29:39] account and make sure you've got two
[29:40] factor authentication on it and the
[29:43] email kind of is a corner pin to account
[29:45] security really so if somebody wants to
[29:46] change the email on your account or
[29:47] disable the Authenticator or set a new
[29:50] password all those requests will go to
[29:52] your registered email so making sure
[29:53] that's really secure has the two step on
[29:56] it that that's a really good idea
[29:56] obviously load of email providers do
[29:59] that i'd recommend Gmail's pretty good
[30:00] you know works really well oh is that
[30:01] myself it takes seconds to authenticate
[30:04] it and that's really valuable and then
[30:05] of course the final thing is have a bank
[30:07] pin you know it's just that final
[30:08] stopgap just to make sure that the
[30:10] everything in your bank is safe have
[30:11] that have their bank pin there but
[30:13] really if you've got a strong passwords
[30:14] or even if someone gets is your password
[30:15] if your email is it's got to factor in
[30:17] its secure you know nobody can get your
[30:20] account they can't get past the
[30:21] Authenticator they can't change the
[30:22] email they can't change the password so
[30:24] you know loads listens really to you
[30:26] know look at those four things but you
[30:27] know particularly we noticed a lot of
[30:28] people whose emails becoming secure so
[30:31] think about your email get to factor on
[30:33] it make sure it's nice and safe
[30:34] brilliant some top tips there Steve
[30:36] thank you so Kelvin in Steve want to
[30:38] jump it to a quick fire question round
[30:39] now about the macro ban review you're
[30:41] both welcome to jump in and I'm gonna
[30:43] put myself in the shoes of the player
[30:44] okay so I didn't cheat and I got banned
[30:46] you made a mistake what's your response
[30:49] to that so for a start that would be a
[30:51] terrible business model to just ban
[30:53] customers that hadn't done anything
[30:54] wrong is you wouldn't find any business
[30:56] in the world taking that approach in
[30:58] is not something we would ever want to
[30:59] do it just doesn't make sense so you
[31:01] know we manually check all of the bands
[31:04] that are applied so they're checked by
[31:05] specialist staff they make sure the band
[31:07] is absolutely right and then on top of
[31:09] that we have like an internal sampling
[31:11] process as well so we have people were
[31:13] actually taking another look at that
[31:15] account making sure the band is
[31:16] absolutely right before it's applied so
[31:17] through that kind of menu chicken
[31:19] process and our internal sampling and
[31:21] just a general principle that we don't
[31:22] want to ban people haven't done anything
[31:23] wrong you know that's the things we have
[31:25] in place that make sure whereas
[31:27] confidence we can be there when bands
[31:28] replied they are correct okay so I'm
[31:30] going to call BS on that because in
[31:32] March Calvin said that we've been
[31:35] 350,000 players so you're telling me
[31:36] that you know we went through 350,000
[31:39] bands and made sure they were correct
[31:41] yeah I mean you make a good point so
[31:43] that there is an exception which I'll
[31:44] mention which is that when we apply gold
[31:46] farming bands it's so blatantly obvious
[31:49] what's going on there's there's no
[31:51] discretion needed there's no real
[31:52] judgment need it's just so obvious it
[31:55] stands out it couldn't be anything
[31:56] couldn't be clearer than when someone is
[31:57] gold farming so in those situations that
[31:59] they're not actually mainly reviewed
[32:01] we're so confident we've checked
[32:03] internally the accuracy is so incredibly
[32:05] high that they don't need to be manually
[32:07] checked just because the behavior of
[32:09] gold farming is just so so obvious so
[32:11] they aren't manually checked but all the
[32:13] macro bands that they are checked my
[32:15] stuff okay just a quick clarify so gold
[32:17] farmers is an account which you've made
[32:19] purely to generate gold in game 2 then
[32:21] sell it off to third parties in the real
[32:23] world and then macro bands are genuine
[32:26] players who just chose to cheat and use
[32:28] a bot to advance their character yeah
[32:30] that's essentially okay so if they are
[32:32] all checked and manually reviewed why is
[32:34] it then that on reddit and social media
[32:36] we see post claiming that they've been
[32:38] banned unfairly in the didn't cheat can
[32:40] you explain that and yeah I I would say
[32:42] the vast majority of them are talking
[32:44] rubbish to be perfectly honest I tell
[32:47] you now we review we look at a lot of
[32:49] that what you know we do continue look
[32:51] at our forums and read it for stuff like
[32:53] this because I want to find the genuine
[32:56] customer who were we have made the
[32:57] mistake and we sort it out I tell you
[32:59] now there are so few of those that when
[33:02] we look at them and review it that we go
[33:05] actually yeah we did make a mistake you
[33:06] know I've got a lot of confidence in mod
[33:08] B know and
[33:09] the ICU team and the anti-cheating guys
[33:11] and actually getting this stuff right
[33:12] and this kind of Steve said it's about a
[33:14] business model at the end of the day it
[33:17] is so rare that we identify a false pan
[33:21] and that that's not kind of false
[33:22] honesty then it's genuine we've got such
[33:26] high standards in this department and
[33:28] maude be no in the guys in ICU take it
[33:31] really really seriously so you know
[33:32] there is the odd one kind of about and
[33:35] if we do come across it will hold our
[33:37] hands up we'll give someone some good
[33:38] world credit and all the rest of it and
[33:40] we'll sort them out but it happens so so
[33:43] rarely there's lots of people kind of
[33:45] shouting about it they make a lot of
[33:46] noise I tell you now they're talking
[33:48] rubbish yeah okay thank you it's another
[33:50] question I was banned in 2014 when are
[33:54] you going to get back to my bun well
[33:56] that's a difficult one because we've
[33:58] only got a kind of finite amount of
[34:00] resource and what we've made a decision
[34:02] to do in the kind of monthly reviews is
[34:04] to look at the most active accounts for
[34:06] people that were banned in the previous
[34:08] month because we think that's going to
[34:09] get the vast majority of people who want
[34:12] to play if we've got time available we
[34:14] all look back over historical offences I
[34:16] can't promise that and to be perfectly
[34:18] honest and what you're going to have to
[34:20] do then do is wait until we can get
[34:21] banner pills back in we will do it at
[34:23] some point is it later on this year or
[34:26] next year but you know unfortunately we
[34:29] all kind of need to wait for that all
[34:31] right thinking will be coming cool so I
[34:33] was hijacked in March and I was banned
[34:36] in March but you haven't sent me a
[34:38] message and may account still banned
[34:39] what's going on well I suppose you know
[34:43] this is an interim process it's not
[34:46] perfect it's not the best solution that
[34:48] could possibly come up with it's the
[34:50] best thing that we think we can kind of
[34:51] come up with to deal with the vast
[34:53] majority of people right now and again
[34:56] it's pretty much from the same answer as
[34:58] I just kind of go before we will I
[34:59] combine a pill so you will get another
[35:01] opportunity to have your account kind of
[35:03] reviewed if you think we've missed you
[35:05] and you know and we will do that and
[35:07] that's kind of our commitment but I must
[35:10] rest what we're doing now it is
[35:12] imperfect it's not the best solution
[35:13] that it can possibly come up with is the
[35:15] best solution we can come up with right
[35:17] now with the resource and the tools that
[35:19] we got available to us ok cool that's
[35:21] the end of the Quickfire arm
[35:23] no I'm a day my crown back on now okay
[35:26] so any final thoughts on the process or
[35:27] anything you want to let the listeners
[35:29] know I just did the obvious thing to say
[35:32] is don't Bob and make sure as Steve said
[35:35] you kind of follow those four pillars of
[35:36] account security so you don't lose
[35:38] control of your account if you bought if
[35:40] you lose control of account it's at risk
[35:42] and all the time and perhaps money and
[35:44] investment that you've put into your
[35:46] runescape account is at risk and you
[35:48] know we've put tools in place for people
[35:50] to do it we've got systems and
[35:51] infrastructure there to catch it when it
[35:53] happens you know we're out there doing
[35:56] our best is Customer Support Specialists
[35:58] to look out for our players and ensure
[36:00] that you can carry on playing the game
[36:02] that actually you love to play all right
[36:04] those life like calvinist everything's
[36:05] been really insightful and hopefully
[36:07] listeners they will have enjoyed it too
[36:08] as ever if you have any feedback or
[36:10] comments on this podcast taking tweeters
[36:12] @ JQ support and we'll be looking at
[36:14] that but for now from Iman Anthony if
[36:17] goodbye Thank symphony thanks very much
[36:19] thanks for listening guys I by CF bye
[36:21] bye thanks for listening to this
[36:23] runescape podcast if you want to give us
[36:25] any feedback you can contact us on
[36:27] twitter or through the forums and we'd
[36:29] love to hear from you thanks very much
[36:38] you