Transcript of RuneScape Dev Diaries - Mining & Smithing #4: Mining 101

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[00:00] Hello and welcome to the fourth
of the Developer Diaries on Mining and Smithing.
[00:04] This time we are gonna be talking
about what it's like to mine.
[00:14] It's worth going over what happened last time.
[00:16] And we were asking
about whether or not Smithing should cost.
[00:19] Whether or not it should be cash neutral.
[00:20] Yeah, it was pretty overwhelming response
[00:22] of "we are quite happy if Smithing costs money
to level up please
[00:26] and have a big benefit at the end."
[00:27] So it was pretty overwhelming.
[00:29] I have if anything a slight counterproposal,
[00:31] which is "is it ok if there is a cheap
or free method which is very slow?"
[00:35] Something we have done in a lot of skills
where by default it costs money
[00:39] and to get a reasonable XP rate it costs money.
[00:41] But maybe there could be a cheap
or free method that's very slow.
[00:44] Slow wouldn't be the main
or core identity of Mining.
[00:47] Let us know what you think about as well.
[00:48] One of the things we wanted to also do
which we realised we haven't done up to this point
[00:51] is actually to thank everybody for the feedback.
[00:53] Yeah! Thank you so much!
There has been so much discussion
[00:56] on Reddit, on our forum, on YouTube.
[00:58] There's been quite a lot.
[00:59] Loads of people are taking this so seriously
and really giving us their thoughts.
[01:03] It's been so useful.
[01:04] Understand what we are trying to do
with these videos as well.
[01:07] But the sheer number of opinions.
[01:09] And it's made the whole process a lot
more rigorous and a lot easier for us to do as well.
[01:13] So thank you so much.
[01:14] But now on to core mining
and how we would like to mine.
[01:17] Throughout this we'll be looking
for your feedback basically
[01:19] because this is a lot of...
[01:21] We're gonna describe how it works.
[01:22] Positing certain ideas for how we gonna do it.
[01:25] So it's worth emphasising
what we are going to do with the core ores.
[01:28] We are gonna be adding in ores at every tier.
[01:31] So a tier is 10, 20, 30, 40...
[01:33] So one per tier we gonna be at 50
and then 60, 70, 80, 90.
[01:38] And we'd like to try to get
the emphasis on those ores
[01:40] rather than on new skilling methods.
[01:42] We wanna make sure those ores
are a viable way of levelling the skill.
[01:45] You get good XP.
You get ore which is valuable.
[01:48] Because of the changes to the Smithing skill
that ore will be valuable.
[01:51] So at the moment with Mining you are not necessarily
training for the core training methods.
[01:56] You are going elsewhere,
you're going to the Living Rock Caverns.
[01:58] That's not to say we necessarily
wanna nerf those methods.
[02:00] They might still be viable alternatives.
[02:01] You say I don't care about ore
but I care about XP.
[02:03] But focus for us
is on getting people to DIY.
[02:06] Yeah, exactly.
[02:08] Right, so, talk about how we mine
and where we find resources.
[02:13] So first of all,
at the moment the way Mining works
[02:16] is that I have to go out of my way
to find a very rare runite rock.
[02:21] -Which in practice people just don't do.
[02:23] And it might be exhausted.
I wanna mine it and it is exhausted.
[02:27] Veins are not gonna be difficult to find.
You wanna go and mine,
[02:30] you are 80, somewhere between 80 and 89 Mining.
You wanna go mine invictum
[02:35] so you just go to where the invictum is and mine it.
You don't have to look around the world
[02:39] and go there isn't any ore so I do something else.
[02:41] I think there is an important distinction to be made
[02:42] that this doesn't mean
that they are going to be everywhere.
[02:44] They are not gonna be in the Varrock mining spots
or Lumbridge mining spots necessarily.
[02:47] They might be in high level or restricted areas.
[02:51] It might just be in Living Rock Caverns.
[02:52] I mean it's important that I can be a Mining pure.
[02:55] If I decided I only wanna level Mining,
this is just an example,
[02:58] but if I decided I only wanna level Mining,
then I can level mining.
[03:01] I don't have to have lots of other skills
to be able to get into the level 90 Mining area.
[03:05] So that'll be important to us.
[03:07] But that doesn't mean we have to just plonk them down
everywhere on the surface world.
[03:10] So one example we're thinking
of making use of Living Rock Caverns perhaps
[03:14] as a level 90 Mining area. Perhaps we repurpose it
because it's just such an iconic mining spot.
[03:19] If we make that the sole source of level 90 ore so that everyone
is there in the Living Rock Cavern, same as before.
[03:25] That could be just one plan.
[03:27] Ultimately we want people to be mining themselves.
[03:31] So mining the rocks. That means we shouldn't put them
behind gates of being scarce or hard to find
[03:37] or when you get there they're depleted.
[03:39] So that's the first thing we are positing.
[03:42] Another thing is that we won't
necessarily introduce competition.
[03:46] Yeah, we don't. We want Mining to feel cooperative.
[03:48] If I am there mining,
I'm glad if there are other people.
[03:50] We don't necessarily need to give a bonus
for there other people being there.
[03:52] But I am glad because there is someone
else there doing it with me
[03:54] and that's fun and I can talk to them.
[03:56] As opposed to "please go away to a different world
because you are stealing my stuff".
[03:59] We don't want that.
[04:00] So, yeah, without question.
[04:01] We're also talking about kind of stackable ore.
[04:04] Yes.
[04:05] Yes, at the moment it's a really difficult decision
[04:07] because "do I want to keep the ore?"
"Is it worth it?"
[04:10] And that contributes to the problem
of skills not being profitable compared to combat
[04:14] because the individual value of each piece of ore
[04:16] is low enough that it's not really worth your time
to keep it a lot of the time.
[04:19] Yes, so we're just seeing people
abandoning pile after pile of ore
[04:22] Yes. That really contributes to Mining
not being seen as a source of ore.
[04:25] So, we'd like to...
Perhaps the ore is stackable.
[04:27] Perhaps there are deposit points.
[04:28] Perhaps there are mine carts.
[04:29] Whatever the system is,
[04:31] we want people to be able to keep their ore if they mine it.
[04:34] Yeah, like bamboo-wrapping the ore.
[04:35] Just a method whereby people
are actually keeping what they mine.
[04:39] That's gonna be a big part of it.
[04:40] And that will really help Mining to be more profitable.
[04:42] Yeah.
[04:43] If we can make that painless.
[04:44] That's why again we want
to hear what you think about that
[04:46] because that's certainly
what we're pushing for at the moment.
[04:48] The background of all of this
is we want people to be mining themselves,
[04:50] not purchasing from the Grand Exchange.
[04:52] It's not that people can't mine from the Grand Exchange,
[04:54] but that we definitely want it to be a viable method.
[04:56] At the moment, it's just not practical to go mine yourself.
[04:58] I am being forced to.
[05:00] But other than that,
it's just not an effective way to play the game.
[05:03] And we wanna make it be an effective choice.
[05:05] Not the only choice, but we want it to be a viable choice.
[05:08] It adds value, whether that's XP or resource.
[05:10] One of the things we've also been talking about
[05:11] is trying to introduce some surprise
[05:14] or some kind of reward for while doing Mining.
[05:18] So we're talking about things
similar to birds' nests with Woodcutting,
[05:22] golden eggs from Fishing,
[05:24] chronicles from Divination.
[05:26] Because Mining is a fairly passive skill by nature
[05:29] and we don't intend to change that,
[05:30] so it will still be a fairly passive skill.
[05:32] But the danger there is of course
that it's a completely AFK skill
[05:34] where there's no reason to pay attention at all.
[05:36] We'll be trying to find the balance
of how frequently you need to click
[05:39] and what reward you get from paying attention.
[05:41] So we have these sort of slow bonuses
[05:44] that, if you're actively engaged,
if you're paying attention,
[05:47] then you get a little bit more
if you catch the right things.
[05:49] I think that works, I think that suits RuneScape.
That idea of not punishing people
[05:51] for not paying attention,
but rewarding those who do.
[05:54] I think it's a really good way of doing it.
[05:56] You've got something you want to mention on animations?
[05:58] Yes! I mean, this is a personal priority for me!
[06:02] At the moment, when you swing your mining pick,
[06:04] it doesn't really have anything to do with what's going on.
[06:07] It kinda goes...
[06:09] It seems like a completely separate tick.
[06:11] It has absolutely nothing to do with the ore,
nothing to do with the XP.
[06:13] I really like to standardise that
so it feels more satisfying.
[06:15] So you go...
[06:16] And you get your XP.
[06:17] Or a headbutt.
[06:18] And you get your XP.
[06:19] Oh, yeah, or a headbutt.
[06:20] So, trying to standardise the way the animation works
[06:25] rather than them being effectively disconnected.
[06:28] It will make Mining feel more satisfying in a subtle way.
[06:32] Yes.
[06:32] I mean 20 hours in, you'll not be paying attention anymore.
[06:36] But just a little bit.
[06:38] The next thing we want to talk about
had been the most contentious
[06:41] when we previously put this forward in the livestreams.
[06:44] The old design.
[06:45] It was the idea that when I mine an ore,
when I'm hitting a rock,
[06:52] I'm making progress.
[06:54] Yes.
[06:54] On that rock.
[06:55] Up to the point where I finally unlock or complete it.
[06:58] What people said was "why are you turning Mining
into Combat? We don't want this."
[07:01] And that's a fair thing to say.
That's perfectly viable.
[07:03] I mean, the most important thing to say about it is
[07:04] Mining will be the same as it was before.
[07:07] From the point of view of what you do as a player.
[07:10] You get your mining pick,
you go to your mining spot,
[07:12] you click on the rock,
you click on it, you get ore back.
[07:15] And none of that will change at all.
[07:17] If you don't understand how the new mechanics work,
[07:19] Or don't want to spend it that way.
[07:20] or you're not interested, it doesn't matter.
[07:21] You just get the highest pick you've got,
[07:23] go to the ore, mine it, you get ore.
[07:25] The subtle details are so that we can do more
with the mechanics.
[07:28] That's why we want to change it.
[07:30] So it's not to change the way
you have to think about the game,
[07:32] but just to allow us
to give more interesting or better rewards.
[07:36] So to clear up what we're suggesting,
[07:38] it's effectively that it will allow us
to add new kinds of pickaxes,
[07:43] critical hits, maybe even things
like prayers or abilities.
[07:47] That affect Mining, yeah.
[07:48] That does make it feel more combat-esque.
[07:49] People keep saying "why can't there be benefits
from skills that go across skills?"
[07:53] A part of the problem is that the skills' mechanics
don't really have room in them to do that.
[07:56] So, Mining, as it works at the moment,
you have a chance to hit
[07:58] and you have a swing time,
how many ticks it is between your swings,
[08:03] and you can't go above 100% chance to hit
and you can't go below one swing.
[08:06] Yes.
[08:07] So we already have that limit.
[08:09] We don't really have much we can do to give rewards.
[08:11] We can give more ore per tick.
[08:13] That's how it works at the moment.
The better picks give more ore per tick.
[08:16] But that means we can't slow the ore rate down,
[08:18] so then we get tier 90 aetherium.
[08:20] If we want that ore to be valuable,
we want it to come out relatively infrequently.
[08:24] We don't want you to be getting 20 of it per tick,
[08:26] because now each individual piece of ore is worthless.
[08:28] Yeah, absolutely.
[08:29] So it's given us no room to do anything with Mining.
[08:32] Ultimately, we're at the limit of it right now.
[08:34] And if we want to do something else with Mining,
do something kind of fresh and new,
[08:37] then we need to have that space
to strategise, allow players to...
[08:40] Yeah, make choices and mine in different ways.
[08:42] Maybe they want to emphasise XP.
[08:44] Maybe they want to emphasise ore acquisition.
[08:45] But we will still emphasise the fact that if a player
does not want to participate in that way,
[08:49] they can still AFK it.
[08:50] They can still feel like the traditional way of Mining.
[08:53] It will feel exactly like normal Mining, yeah.
[08:54] Yeah, absolutely.
[08:55] The major difference is...
[08:57] So, the proposed new system is,
[08:59] whenever I hit a rock, a number goes up.
[09:02] I have some number which is the amount of...
[09:04] We're calling it progress.
[09:06] The amount of progress I do when I hit with my pick,
[09:08] it scales with my Mining level,
[09:09] it scales with the quality of the pick I'm using,
[09:11] and maybe other benefits I have
[09:13] from Invention or perhaps gear
if we implement that sort of thing.
[09:17] And then everytime I hit the rock I get XP.
[09:21] Yes.
[09:21] So you are getting a constant stream
of XP from hitting the rock.
[09:25] And then once I reach some amount of progress,
I get the ore.
[09:28] In the current system, if we want the ore to be rare,
[09:30] that means we have to give it a very low chance.
[09:32] So 5% chance per ore.
[09:33] So you go swing, "I didn't get an ore".
[09:35] Swing, "I didn't get an ore".
Swing, "I didn't get an ore".
[09:36] And it's very very random.
It's like a drop table.
[09:39] It's actually very like combat in that regard.
[09:41] And we want it to feel a bit more consistent than that.
[09:43] The other problem with the current system is because
you are getting your ore and your XP at the same time,
[09:46] you are waiting on the XP as well.
You are randomly waiting. You are not getting any XP.
[09:51] That's very unsatisfying.
[09:52] So by separating the two out we have more control.
[09:54] So there will be more consistency but we've already talked
about how we can add a bit more randomness
[09:58] and surprise to other methods.
[10:00] That's great.
[10:01] You mentioned just a moment ago about level up bonuses.
[10:04] Personally I feel that when you level up a skill
you should get fun.
[10:07] You should go "oh, I got better at that".
And that isn't really true in a lot of skills.
[10:10] Technically maybe there's a 0.5% better swing.
[10:13] Yeah. You see it in Agility.
[10:15] What I'd like to implement are bonuses
which are specific to that tier of ore.
[10:20] So I am leveling up to 7 Mining copper at the moment
[10:24] and I get for example 10% chance to get double copper
when I mine copper or something like that.
[10:28] That's a big bonus.
That's a large improvement to copy.
[10:30] You can imagine that to be quite valuable in higher tiers.
[10:32] But because it only applies to copper,
it doesn't need to stack up as the skill goes up.
[10:36] So what I hope is that everytime you level up in Mining
[10:39] you get visibly better at Mininig.
[10:41] Suite of varied unlocks that make you better at Mining.
[10:43] If you're drawing the XP-per-hour graph,
I would expect it to pop up each level
[10:48] because you get some real chunky bonus that feels good.
That sort of I'd like to get.
[10:53] The next one that we'd like to talk about
is another contentious one
[10:55] which is why we are leaving this relatively open
so we really like your feedback particularily on this.
[10:59] And it's whether or not Mining
in its new form should be faster to train.
[11:06] Because we are talking about to bring rune down.
[11:08] It was level 80 or something,
now it's gonna be level 50.
[11:11] Presumably that means it gets nerfed.
[11:14] We don't like nerfing things.
We think that feels bad.
[11:17] But of course if I am level 80, I'll be using
the new level 80 ores instead, so that's ok.
[11:22] I think what we're gonna try and do is...
[11:23] Mining at the moment has an XP curve
where the higher my Mining level, the more my XP per hour is.
[11:27] Try to maintain something very similar to that
[11:31] so Mining rates don't change radically.
[11:34] Part of the thing is the curve at the moment is very wonky.
[11:37] Some levels it's huge jumps. Some levels there aren't.
Seren's stones is a huge jump.
[11:41] And so try to standardise perhaps that a little bit.
[11:46] But I don't think we are expecting
to make massive increases in the amount of XP.
[11:50] And that probably means that some rocks,
for example runite most significantly,
[11:53] would need to be nerfed, but I would expect
to err on the side of increasing a bit.
[11:59] And my reason for that is just because it would feel bad
[12:01] to login after the rework
and be getting worse XP than before.
[12:04] It is a slow skill to train.
[12:06] But we've also looked at...
Seren's stones feels like our cap
[12:10] in terms of XP generation per hour.
[12:13] So on the rework, I mean,
we may produce updates in the future
[12:16] that go beyond that, we are not ruling that out,
[12:18] but for the rework we're looking
at keeping that as our cap.
[12:21] Yeah, we wouldn't expect there to be
faster rates than the Seren's stones.
[12:24] We'd love to know what you think
about that topic in particular.
[12:26] And we also were just discussing it today in fact,
the free to play aspect.
[12:31] Yes, I heard a few people saying "what this means
for free to play if you are nerfing runite".
[12:33] "Is that gonna make free to play Mining impossible?"
[12:36] It's putting bans to my ability to fight.
[12:39] The gear would stay the same but the XP rates
in Mining and Smithing would be massively lower.
[12:43] And so we were discussing this today and you said...
[12:46] "Well, actually..."
[12:48] Tentatively you are ok with the 60
and perhaps even the 70 tiers
[12:52] of Mining and Smithing being accessible to free to play.
[12:54] So, there we go.
I think we've covered largely
[12:57] the core mechanics of Mining,
what it would feel like to mine.
[12:59] There are some things we really wanted from you, obviously.
[13:02] We put together a lot of "what we would like to do".
[13:05] Now it's time for you to give us your feedback.
[13:06] You helped us out so fantastically
over the past three videos.
[13:09] Now it's the time for what we've just suggested.
[13:12] In particular, it is the idea of progress
[13:15] and making progress on a particular node or rock.
[13:18] What you feel about that?
How do you feel about that?
[13:20] Particular as it allows us to add more strategy
[13:22] and allows us to add more rewards,
potentially more pickaxes for example.
[13:27] And also the speed of levelling,
whether or not you are interested.
[13:32] We are talking about keeping largely
the same pace of Mining,
[13:35] potentially a little bit faster,
with Seren stones being really the top for XP-per-hour.
[13:40] So your thoughts on that.
[13:41] Thank you very much for watching.
[13:43] We'll be back with another Mining
and Smithing Dev Diary in the future
[13:46] talking about Smithing and its core mechanics.