Transcript of RuneScape Dev Diaries - Mining & Smithing #1: Reasons to 99

From the RuneScape Wiki, the wiki for all things RuneScape
Jump to: navigation, search
Crystal saw.png
This page is currently under construction.
The information contained within should not be considered fully accurate and/or complete.

Automatic transcription[edit | edit source]

[00:00] so hello welcome to the first of the
[00:02] developer Diaries where are we going to
[00:04] be going kind of buying the scenes of
[00:05] the development and design of individual
[00:07] projects so we can go a bit more in
[00:10] depth into why we make the decisions
[00:11] that we do and also to kind of get your
[00:14] feedback
[00:17] [Music]
[00:22] the intention or particularly this first
[00:24] one which is mining smithing so we've
[00:26] got my Jack chat going we're going to be
[00:30] chatting about mining smithing so this
[00:31] is the second time we've approached the
[00:33] design of mining and smithing and we
[00:34] want to do this kind of more transparent
[00:37] and over a period of time so that each
[00:39] of these Diaries we can reveal or we can
[00:42] talk about a certain topic and then over
[00:44] the two weeks get your feedback get your
[00:47] input in add that into the design and
[00:49] then come up next time round with a new
[00:53] set of questions and then we're slowly
[00:55] building up that design I think that's
[00:57] the ideas have kind of discussion yeah
[00:59] and that way when we get to the end
[01:00] we've got a design everyone's happy with
[01:02] already rather than something which we
[01:04] just present yeah I checked it I think
[01:06] they felt like that with the previous
[01:08] design it felt like we were just
[01:09] dictating what we want to do even though
[01:11] we had got lot of survey results and
[01:13] talked to a lot of people it felt like
[01:14] we'd just thrown something else I felt
[01:15] like it came as a surprise to people
[01:16] yeah it wasn't supposed to be it was
[01:19] going to be a bit more explicit yeah
[01:20] created by everyone so it's very much
[01:22] going to have that feel of you know the
[01:24] start of the next F diary will talk
[01:26] about the things that we decided from
[01:27] the previous one so I'm really kind of
[01:30] feel like like a growing design yeah but
[01:33] this first one and the intention is to
[01:36] kind of start off by revealing the aims
[01:38] of the H morning smithing rework as a
[01:42] whole also talk about the future dev
[01:44] Diaries and what they're going to
[01:45] contain but also write the end we're
[01:46] going to be covering one topic which is
[01:48] what it means to get to level 99 yeah
[01:50] and what you unlock what it what it
[01:52] means to get there what did what happens
[01:54] when you read why why would I want
[01:56] smithing yes why would I want to bother
[01:58] with this girl so um while that might
[02:00] may seem obvious to a lot of you is
[02:02] actually quite an integral question so
[02:03] we're going to that in a bit more detail
[02:04] and so first of all let's talk about the
[02:06] objectives of mining and Smith things so
[02:09] the absolute core objective of this
[02:11] project in reworking mining smithing is
[02:13] to make sure that the skills have a
[02:14] purpose here is why you would want to
[02:16] have mining smithing his role in the
[02:18] game is this is what they're for
[02:21] and then technically that is a very
[02:23] clear aim that I think everyone is
[02:24] perfectly happy with which is just to
[02:25] rearrange the tear so that they make
[02:27] sense of us it's like kind of fixing
[02:29] them feeling like it is broken as it
[02:31] stands yeah Bruno Bruno is up in the 90
[02:33] it doesn't make any sense it's not gear
[02:35] that's valuable or useful anymore it's
[02:36] absolutely bizarre that the reward for
[02:38] high-level smithing is the ability to
[02:39] get relevant and that was always in the
[02:40] original mining spec yeah we worked we
[02:42] pitched I don't think anybody was really
[02:43] kind of critical of no one's know
[02:45] nothing is a question that a lot of
[02:46] people have dauntless is obviously if
[02:47] it's secondary to that it's important to
[02:52] me that the skill be fun and satisfying
[02:55] to level I think that's a really
[02:57] important priority and I know a lot of
[02:59] players agree with us that that getting
[03:00] people involved in runescape and getting
[03:01] people enjoying runescape is is an
[03:03] important priority but obviously that's
[03:05] a bloody degree event like yeah we're
[03:06] not talking about a minigame this oh no
[03:08] no no I'm marryin satisfying you know
[03:10] make sure there's something to get when
[03:11] you love doing but I should I should
[03:13] mention that that he's a lower priority
[03:14] issue probably because so many people
[03:16] are already high level my name is
[03:17] smithing it's a lower priority for the
[03:19] real world to do that you had a feeling
[03:21] yeah I had say mine word obviously I
[03:23] actually designer I've got kind of a
[03:25] broad view of what game is the game so
[03:27] it's things like familiarity I think
[03:29] there's a lot of people who are coming
[03:31] back to the game I've heard of time and
[03:33] there is a sense of while obviously we
[03:35] want to kind of change a number of
[03:36] things to make them work you know fixed
[03:38] and be enjoyable I still don't want to
[03:40] diverge too much from what we have yeah
[03:42] I wouldn't want these skills to feel
[03:43] yeah ridiculously I think on track with
[03:45] I think that they kind of feel is
[03:47] relatively simple yeah we got we got a
[03:49] bit muddled with that with the previous
[03:50] design I think part of it was
[03:51] communication rather than there was a
[03:53] problem with the design that it sounded
[03:55] complicated but ultimately what we want
[03:57] is you log into the game I want to go do
[03:58] some mining so I get my mining pick and
[04:00] I go and hit some rocks and it gets a
[04:01] more yes and ultimately it's still going
[04:03] to work like that and there may be there
[04:04] may be subtle underlying mechanics that
[04:06] make that more satisfying or interesting
[04:09] or balanced or profitable but ultimately
[04:11] you're gonna be getting a moaning bigger
[04:12] hitting rocks yeah I'm going to change
[04:13] so I'm having those high broad but those
[04:15] are our provision we're not going to try
[04:17] to diverge from that at any point
[04:19] yeah so those are the things we're
[04:20] bringing to the Ames I'm sure I'd be
[04:22] interested to know kind of know yours as
[04:23] well
[04:24] but that's so the individual topics for
[04:27] future dev Diaries I'm a little skirt
[04:28] over them quickly you know starting off
[04:30] with tearing yeah so these aren't we're
[04:32] not necessarily going to do a dev diary
[04:33] every one of these topics but these are
[04:35] the areas of the song yes look at where
[04:37] mining spectra breaks down if it turns
[04:38] out to not be controversial and the
[04:39] design everyone's happy with then we
[04:40] don't need to do a full well yeah sorry
[04:42] only ball see how it goes okay
[04:43] so tearing as I mentioned we're going to
[04:47] be lowering lowering the requirements
[04:48] that is adding in new tears that's the
[04:50] most crucial yeah that's controversial
[04:52] that's pretty still there's some stairs
[04:54] it gets it gets complicated when you
[04:56] start looking at the relationship
[04:58] between smithing as a source of gear and
[05:00] combat so this yeah so if we are at the
[05:03] assumption is and I think everyone's
[05:04] pretty happy on this we're going to be
[05:05] adding in a 60 tier accepted tier and a
[05:07] 2 tier and 90 tier as soon as we get to
[05:09] the 92 it gets complicated because is 90
[05:12] smithing gear better than 90 drops if it
[05:14] is it makes combat worthless if it isn't
[05:16] smithing worthless so that's a that's a
[05:18] core problem we're going to have to
[05:19] resolve I mean there's even issues with
[05:22] an is 19 Smith ball gear better than 18
[05:25] artifact talk yeah absolutely combat
[05:27] ropes yes if do we do we want to try and
[05:29] preserve the value of level 80 combat
[05:31] across lots of medicines right yeah you
[05:33] know that's um so that is a discussion
[05:34] that's going yeah office another graph
[05:36] diary yeah and that's where we can't we
[05:38] can't just say it's going to be like
[05:39] this but yeah there's a lot of
[05:40] disagreement and that issue in
[05:42] particular or of combat
[05:44] relative profitability relative value
[05:46] was incredibly divisive yeah it wasn't
[05:48] like we pitched a design that the
[05:50] community disagreed with it was that we
[05:52] pitched a design that about 50% of the
[05:53] community thought was great
[05:54] my victims a community feels awkward was
[05:56] awful which is the worst situation for
[05:58] us because if everyone hates it we can
[06:00] just say oh what we won't do that then
[06:01] we'll do the opposite brilliant in this
[06:02] case there's a real conflict there we're
[06:04] gonna have and it's whether or not there
[06:05] is a solution actually make something
[06:06] happen or whether or not we just have to
[06:07] make a hard decision as Jagex but
[06:09] basically the benefit yeah absolutely
[06:11] um so then it's tools tools which isn't
[06:13] core to the design but no it's it can be
[06:16] lost lobby a talking pickaxe pickaxes
[06:18] can relax surprisingly controversial
[06:19] yeah or will be bigger because obviously
[06:21] people have putting a lot of effort to
[06:22] get there crystal drag yeah yeah and we
[06:25] want I mean that's that I should have
[06:26] mentioned that as a priority I guess
[06:27] that that
[06:28] protecting people's existing investment
[06:31] is important yes
[06:32] that doesn't mean protecting the value
[06:34] of all existing content if you didn't
[06:36] work hard to unlock it it's less
[06:38] important to me to protect it yeah but
[06:40] if you worked really hard for your
[06:41] crystal pickaxe or your coal bag or
[06:42] whatever then I feel like that needs to
[06:44] be protected as a priority and we're not
[06:46] going to just make stuff redundant or
[06:48] say ah sucks for you it's invested that
[06:50] time in the first place it's important
[06:52] for us to protect that the purpose of
[06:54] the purpose of the rework is to make it
[06:55] more rewarding not less rewarding yeah
[06:57] yeah and then it's the Big E which is
[06:59] leveling versus leveling versus
[07:01] production which is actually a
[07:03] surprisingly complicated problem so the
[07:04] way smithing works at the moment you
[07:06] train by creating gear yes well as
[07:11] you're doing on social but you train by
[07:12] creating year and what that means is
[07:14] that that gear is worthless yes we have
[07:16] a surfeit of them ever it'd be always
[07:18] valuable because it has smithing XP in
[07:20] it and then I take the smithing XP out
[07:21] of it a year out of it which isn't now
[07:24] there is actually a bug at the moment
[07:25] which is that room two handers get I
[07:28] haven't out value which is too high
[07:29] right which means that that that Smith
[07:31] is actually profitable so right now
[07:33] smithing you can make money from but
[07:34] that isn't that's a bug that's not
[07:36] supposed to work though okay okay it's
[07:37] kind of a fluke so we're going to need
[07:39] to address that problem of of how you
[07:41] level the scale do you produce items do
[07:43] you not produce item yeah I mean there's
[07:45] always the option as well I know we were
[07:46] talking about it the option of giving
[07:48] choice like divination yeah that idea of
[07:50] do I want to divination which is under
[07:52] them yeah that emphasis on levelling
[07:54] therefore and less product yeah or well
[07:56] name some product so that might be not
[07:58] needed yeah absolutely yeah another
[08:00] another option we're considering is that
[08:02] the scale costs money to invest in two
[08:05] level yeah so you lose money by leveling
[08:07] smithing but once you get to the top it
[08:09] becomes profitable that's another option
[08:10] me out yeah it doesn't have to be
[08:12] brought to pull all the way through in
[08:12] the weapon says that mining is always
[08:14] profitable because you're always
[08:15] producing or unless you choose to just
[08:16] is that a separate topic profit I think
[08:19] so yeah yeah is smithing profitable is
[08:21] an awkward question mining will be yeah
[08:24] but smithing here mining mining at the
[08:27] moment isn't really profitable because
[08:29] it does pales in comparison to combat so
[08:31] that's a problem that we need to look at
[08:32] and and Tim o talk to invest and said we
[08:36] are committed to making smithing off
[08:38] so it skills profitable and mining
[08:40] smithing is the first step on that yeah
[08:42] I think that's one of the it's not
[08:43] Corinne but it's something that we both
[08:45] want to be it which is the idea of and I
[08:48] know a number of people possibly
[08:49] justified felt that that we had pitched
[08:53] bringing down profitability of PBM to be
[08:56] aligned with skilling yeah and that the
[08:58] up fourth of that calls yeah was the
[09:00] reason that we pulled the original
[09:01] mining smithing we were deciding not
[09:03] Alison but I can understand how that was
[09:05] saying it's I think that more of the
[09:07] framework that we're looking to do is
[09:09] pulling up an on combining and
[09:10] profitability of that so it is on a par
[09:13] well yeah someone came to a par because
[09:15] obviously there is an element of them
[09:15] risk the best source of ore in the game
[09:18] ought to be the mining skill and it's
[09:20] strange that it's not yeah so regardless
[09:22] of whether or not mining is profitable
[09:24] if I want or I should my first thought
[09:27] should be well I don't mind for it not
[09:28] I'll go to qba I mean we could do
[09:30] something as easy as replacing all of
[09:32] the resources gained from PBM with cap
[09:36] with cash just cast rock was tall well
[09:38] being protein kind of yes so that's
[09:42] something we're gonna be talking about
[09:42] it in future be interesting new thoughts
[09:44] on that it's a it's a complicated issue
[09:46] that needs a lot of thought and because
[09:47] the impact on it the wider impact on the
[09:49] economy is huge yeah so it's not
[09:51] something where we can just just have a
[09:53] go and see why I have to be pretty
[09:55] confident we've got the data we look
[09:56] behind the scenes of the game is one
[09:57] it's surprisingly few people take that
[09:59] all from all bars from a p.m. encounter
[10:02] yes and then I may need to go skill with
[10:04] it so it is it is that pattern of take
[10:06] where we will put on GE
[10:08] then after that we have existing
[10:10] contents this is there's a huge point of
[10:13] contention in the eyes again it is from
[10:15] a kind of design perspective it is an
[10:17] adept and addendum it's not part of the
[10:19] core design but so many people were
[10:20] focused and again rightly so you because
[10:23] this is how they train on it on the
[10:24] initial pitch being unfinished yeah we
[10:27] weren't we're looking at artisans
[10:28] workshop we weren't looking at your
[10:30] blast furnaces lava flow mines things
[10:32] like that so I don't think this topic
[10:33] will suit a video very well simply
[10:35] because there are so many on the list of
[10:37] like sort of receive granted yeah you
[10:39] may go on to media or forums yeah mostly
[10:41] would be heard trying to your personal
[10:42] in text I think putting up document
[10:44] people to look at and proposing what
[10:45] we're going to do with all this contents
[10:46] all right I've got a list I looked at
[10:48] several other player lists and compiled
[10:50] with my lists yeah every piece of
[10:51] content that is touched or touches
[10:53] mining and smithing how it's going to
[10:55] work in the new system
[10:56] my initial list is is about intention
[11:00] rather than about the exact design so
[11:02] it's not so it's a coal bag is going to
[11:04] do this it's the coal bag is definitely
[11:06] gonna be sent is useful
[11:07] we will prioritize making sure the coal
[11:08] bag is usable but we won't tell you at
[11:10] this point exactly what it's going to do
[11:11] because that depends on most of it yeah
[11:12] but it's important to know about that I
[11:14] mean finishing the update is something
[11:15] we're looking to do again oh yeah
[11:17] smitten finish absolutely I mean where
[11:18] previously it was had that kind of
[11:20] batched electrolyzing
[11:21] yeah number of weeks care feel and DIY
[11:25] so yeah this is a sort of design
[11:28] priority issue yes
[11:29] it's I think we all we all feel very
[11:32] strongly that the design the skills are
[11:34] better and nicer if they work well
[11:36] together
[11:36] you have to work well from a DIY
[11:38] perspective yeah let's do it yourself so
[11:40] enjoy guys oh yeah yeah so so without
[11:42] using the GE it not in a formal sense of
[11:44] like I'm never touching the G which is
[11:45] how iron men work but more I prefer to
[11:49] gather things myself and do things
[11:50] because it's a clay style that a lot
[11:51] players engage in it's my preferred
[11:53] blade style that isn't that isn't such a
[11:56] priority that we would sacrifice the
[11:57] project for it but it's always something
[11:58] we're keeping in mind yet in the design
[12:00] is we want it to work that way
[12:01] and that's kidneys Ryan men who can't
[12:03] play and he'll do what eight so that's
[12:05] November we're bringing in moss three so
[12:08] one of the problems that we have with
[12:09] mining is making me work from my
[12:11] perspective as a lead designer is we
[12:13] want to get people plant we want to have
[12:15] something that they players can progress
[12:17] through and there is a concern that one
[12:20] people really want to mining in smithing
[12:21] that if we brought it out everybody go
[12:24] thanks for that and then go back because
[12:26] they've got ninety nine you know there
[12:27] are a number of people with comp with
[12:28] trim comp and max maybe 120 you just
[12:32] don't need to participate in this and
[12:34] that's obviously there's the question of
[12:37] whether or not we deliver additional
[12:38] content whether or not we do some
[12:39] Walmart would do mastery content and
[12:41] we're opinion that yes we should as well
[12:43] for the benefit long term again so yeah
[12:45] so a mastery is it's it's sort of an
[12:47] alternative it's like what do i do what
[12:50] do i actually spend time doing
[12:52] I've got I've got say 99 smithing yeah
[12:55] why would I bother to engage with this
[12:56] content which opens up the question and
[12:58] a mastery is something like get much
[13:00] better at making a particular kind of
[13:02] gear or now that you've finished
[13:03] levelling $2.99 get more benefits by
[13:06] continuing to learn XP if this would all
[13:08] be optional I think we're thinking this
[13:09] is this is not like a yes this is not
[13:12] some sort of X is not like us doing 120
[13:14] smithing it's not that's not dress
[13:15] things it's nothing like that it's it's
[13:18] only with comes like it's good it's like
[13:19] it's almost no horizontal bailing yeah
[13:21] yeah yeah I like dragon so much I just
[13:24] want to learn to Smith dragon it's
[13:26] probably not dragging up dragon tears
[13:27] likes on it yeah maybe maybe we don't
[13:30] have the art budget for that but yeah
[13:31] yeah essentially getting better at doing
[13:33] it yes and that I did a good design too
[13:35] that might allow us to address some of
[13:37] the profitability issues by letting
[13:38] people who really want to focus on
[13:41] smithing will be more profitable so
[13:43] anything young people who aren't so
[13:44] bothered to just not take our 99 often
[13:46] get done with it
[13:47] arms are heavily invested as the players
[13:49] who've gone into the mastery system but
[13:50] I mean this system isn't fully designed
[13:52] yet and it is a bit controversial so
[13:53] we'll definitely be talking alone in the
[13:54] future we'll be asked of your feedback
[13:56] so that kind of leads to the topic of
[13:58] that we're going to be chatting about
[14:00] yeah I was always feedback on which is
[14:01] what is the purpose of training mining
[14:04] is making particularly smithing
[14:05] particular smithing to level 99 why am i
[14:08] doing that what am I looking to unlock
[14:10] at that point and that's where we are so
[14:14] we have a number of options yeah so so
[14:16] you look at herb law herb law is not a
[14:20] particularly useful skill except over
[14:22] loads which are fantastically important
[14:23] to the point that consider mandatory for
[14:25] combat for high-level combat and that
[14:28] makes herb law a very in-demand skill
[14:31] people will pay money for her law people
[14:33] consider it worthwhile something has
[14:35] nothing like that so the question is do
[14:37] we want to add effectively an untradable
[14:39] personal benefit Smit this killer app
[14:41] but yeah exam Oh slightly because the
[14:43] way our game works at the moment that
[14:46] can wrap generally is in combat
[14:47] yeah it realistically will have to be
[14:49] combat because otherwise it otherwise
[14:50] people will do the mats and they'll work
[14:53] out that it's not worth it because they
[14:55] could make more money a different way
[14:56] yeah if ultimately it's always going to
[14:57] be either XP money or
[14:59] yeah because we don't have any other
[15:01] levers to pull up the mo yeah so so we
[15:04] have that overload model yeah the other
[15:05] model is given model is is that having a
[15:09] high level in smithing is useful for
[15:10] creating gear that can be traded that's
[15:13] actually more much more complicated for
[15:14] us to implement because it's partly a
[15:16] non-player economy for you to make
[15:18] something for other people to buy they
[15:19] need to want it yeah and it needs to be
[15:21] worth the money to them and it needs to
[15:22] be profitable for you to make it yeah
[15:24] and that isn't based on any of our
[15:26] existing manufacturing yeah so the
[15:29] options are overload model or Jinky
[15:31] generation it's essentially gold
[15:33] generation yes the point of having
[15:34] high-level smithing is that its
[15:35] profitable type high level spinning
[15:36] which is how mining I mean mining is at
[15:38] least in theory as long as we can make
[15:40] or from mining as long as we mining a
[15:43] good source of or then the point of
[15:44] having high level mining is obvious it's
[15:46] that it generates all and it's a great
[15:47] thing to have but sniffing doesn't have
[15:49] that same model at the moment so it
[15:51] would be smithing is a good source of
[15:53] gear smithing is profitable because it
[15:54] produces gear that's much harder for us
[15:56] to design but it doesn't make smithing
[15:59] mandatory for combat players so that's
[16:01] the sort of trade-off gotcha so I guess
[16:04] the question really is of those two
[16:05] models the overload model or the gold
[16:07] generation model which of those two do
[16:08] you prefer or there are other others yes
[16:11] there absolutely could be more that we
[16:12] haven't really considered or thought
[16:13] yeah I mean we don't want to go down the
[16:15] route of what we have at the moment
[16:17] which is at higher levels you generate
[16:19] more XP yeah because that's sort of self
[16:21] selphie kind of rising it does has no
[16:23] purpose so just what you may have
[16:26] thoughts on you're there and then see in
[16:29] two weeks time then we can come back
[16:30] with general thought maybe an outline of
[16:32] a design for from that would work yeah
[16:35] yeah yeah I think so yeah all right ok I
[16:38] think that's it so thank you very much
[16:39] for watching the first of these dev
[16:41] Diaries that's all you think obviously
[16:43] we're going to be doing a number of
[16:43] these might be doing more when it comes
[16:45] to expansions as well so brief kind of
[16:47] improving changing these over time and
[16:49] obeah there'll be a forum thread to talk
[16:50] about it's absolutely right we've got
[16:52] forum thread and let us know about the
[16:54] video and about the design yeah but
[16:56] particularly design
[16:57] yeah that's it's important that we all
[16:59] work together to get money and sniffing
[17:00] in a place where you know generally
[17:01] we're happy with that is benefiting the
[17:03] long term of
[17:04] people play so there we go thank you
[17:06] very much I've been modeling I'm not yet
[17:08] yeah cheers thank you