Template talk:Infobox Deity

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Explanation[edit source]

I've created this infobox for Gods, because those information sections most of the major ones have are rather messy. Feel free to add in anything I might have missed... --Armadyl symbol.png Nightgunner Talk Illuminated Book of Law.png 18:54, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Changing Aligment to philosophy[edit source]

Jagex uses philosophy, and stated it for the gods, maybe we should change it to philosophy?Kinglink15 (talk) 11:34, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

We basically started/finished it here... if it ever comes up.. maybe we could/should copy paste(?): Talk:Gods#God_Allignments . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 08:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Philosophy[edit source]

I noticed before it was changed back to aligment, so i left it alone because of reasons. But now I noticed that Jagex in above the lore prodcast, and some threads used the words "philosophy" So, I think it is best off to change Aligment, back to philosophy, seeing Jagex saying it a lot.Quest.png Adventurerrr Talk Quest.png 12:46, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

But lots of alignments can't be described as philosophy. Tumeken's alignment is of light/the sun, which is not a philosophy. Icthlarin is god of the dead, which is not a philosophy. --Adventurer's log Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon.png 13:28, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
I doubt any can, perhaps only Guthix's balance. Chaos, justice, war, resourcefulness, fertility and time aren't philosophies either. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 15:46, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Animal Aspect[edit source]

I just added what I think could be seen as Tuska's "animal aspect", I've never seen that term being used on any of the god pages, and the description/definition on this page also isn't that clear (seems to me to be similar to the "race" one). So I'm sort of testing it our. Anyone got any ideas? . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 16:23, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

The only pages on which "animal aspect" is being used, are the ones found in the gods of the desert pantheon (since the mention on Tuska has been removed). Of half (the ACHS: Apmeken, Crondis, Het, Scarabs) I've managed to trace back to Tumeken's Dream, but not the other half.
The source Amascut's animal aspect I cannot find in the dream, maybe it's mentioned in a quest? Icthlarin's animal aspect is based on his look and the link with Set (who is commonly regarded as a Jackal), so I presume. Tumeken is said to be a falcon and Elidinis a Hippo... no idea where that is from. There's also not reference.
I think Tumeken's dream isn't to be seen as exactly literal... but who knows. Maybe Scarabas really was a scarab. But, either way, the way "animal aspect" is used seems very similar to the way "race" is commonly used.
I propose we delete Animal aspect and use race instead. I also hope that someone could give me a source for those animals I didn't manage to trace back... :( . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 13:49, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
You are off on your lore, Amascut, and Icthlarin are Tumeken's kid, not dreams.Quest.png Adventurerrr Talk Quest.png 13:57, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
I'm not even a father yet, and already I dream about my child :P
I don't think I said they were merely a dream. I apologize if that was unclear. ... btw, I also don't think Tumeken dreamed-into-creation his wife adn himself either. I'm just wondering where their animal aspect comes from and I'm suggesting to mergde that with race. . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 14:10, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
This isn't the place to discuss lore such as that. As for removing the field, we can use race to cover that surely? What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 14:05, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, you may be right about that :P So to the Desert Pantheon talk page then? . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 14:10, January 6, 2014 (UTC)

Elidinis and Tumeken's animal aspects are given in The Death of Chivalry (and are also depicted on the walls of the post-desert quest tombs and Tumken's Dream). Icthlarin's is given in his examine text, and Amascut's is given in Diamond in the Rough and dialogue with Neite. Only the desert pantheon have animal aspects, and animal aspects are not the race the god was before ascension, merely an animal the deity is closely associated with (and in most cases, the animal they have the head of). Here are some relevant quotes:

The last of her priestesses gathered and cursed her. Unfortunately she also cast a spell of her own, condemning us to an eternity of walking RuneScape in her form... ...She's as much a cat as Icthlarin is a dog.

Neite

If I remember, there used to be an old temple to Amascut out that way. Amascut’s animal aspect is a lioness, so perhaps that’s what it means.

Leela

The hieroglyphs on the tomb walls aren't just for looks; some thought did go into them. I'm glad that it's already been picked up on that the hippo depicts Elidiniss, and I'm not sure if it's been said, but the bird of prey is Tumeken's animal aspect (as it was in that Tumeken's Dream lores you've posted earlier in the thread).

Mod Srowley

Tumeken, god of the sun... Husband to Elidinis, and father of Amascut and Icthlarin. May your falcon eyes watch over Sir Owen in the next life...

The Player

Elidinis, goddess of fertility and growth... Wife of Tumeken, mother of Amascut and Icthlarin... May your hippos bear Sir Owen into the next life, where he might prosper and enjoy peace.

The Player

Also, we should probably changed "Race" to "Original race", as god is a race in itself: a god ceases to be their original race after they ascend. Adventurer's log Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon.png 15:34, January 6, 2014 (UTC)

Uhm. What Wahi said. As for the race thing, I disagree. Godhood is a status IMO. You lose some mortal abilities of your race when you ascend, yes, such as an afterlife or the ability to participate in a ritual (Zamowack), but the qualities and traits from your race not only remain, but are amplified. For instance, Zamorak the Mahjarrat is very power hungry, Bandos the combat rhino desires global war rather than just duelling to become stronger, Guthix became rather pacifistic but also very aggressive when needed (and the Naragi were partially good and cuddly farmers etc. but could also be decisive and hostile if needed), Saradomin has serious psychological and emotional issues, more so than a regular human etc. So, while gods are quite different from their original races, they also reflect their race in a sort of extrapolational (...) way. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 16:33, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
I believe Jagex said that god is its own race, but I could be mistaken. You definitely cease to be your original race on ascension though, I'm certain they said that, hence the lack of ability to reproduce and stuff. And of course they retain their personality on ascension :P. Gods are very physically different, too, they explode on death, are unable to reproduce and stuff, it's more than simply a level of power. Adventurer's log Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon.png 17:14, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
I disagree with that statement... looking at the gods, they can't be race per any definition of a race. You don't cease to be your race on ascension, on the contrary, you become your race in an extreme form. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 18:07, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
But Jagex have said they cease to be their original race on ascension, which makes sense, as they gain the ability to take any form they wish, explode into divine energy on death, lose their ability to go to an afterlife, and stuff. Plus it's extremely unlikely that Tumeken and Elidinis were the same race pre-ascension, but were able to reproduce, although admittedly we don't know if that was via intercourse or some magical method. (I derped in saying they weren't able to reproduce earlier.) If Brassica Prime was originally a cabbage (although I favour him not being one), he definitely isn't now. Original race is less ambiguous, at any rate. Adventurer's log Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon.png 18:14, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
Meh, Jagex's opinion is arbitrary-ish here. But Tumeken and Elidinis are weird, aye... Brassica considers himself a cabbage. We don't know what his original race was though. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 19:06, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
From the quotes you gave me, it does indeed same unlikely that animal aspect is the same as race. Although it might be the case with the 4 aspects (provided you at least take the dream literally), but with Tumeken and Elidinis it seems more like their "favored animal" as a "living symbol" than anything else. Since they're so odd... well, I would no longer advocate to merge it with race. But I also disagree that it should be "original race". I'd say, IF we were to change race, let's change it to "species" as a thing as "race" doesn't really exist anyway... except for within the human mind. Once Jagex might have hinted that the gods were a race on its own... Saradomin calling Guthix and Zamorak his brothers, and Armadyl his noble brethren... stuff like that. But that notion has long been changed. If anything, I remember them stating that that old idea is off the table completely. Other hints, for example, are things like "Guthix was the last of the Naragi", "Saradomin is human - hence he's blue"... "Armadyl is aviansie (not aviantese :P)" and Zaros is unique as there is no race to speak of. I don't think you can really say, you disagree with Jagex. If they say something is one way, it IS that way... like Ashdale. I also wonder btw... will Sliske look like Zamorak, or does the "race's features" that get elaborated after ascension depend on the person... e.g. is it mediated by personality perhaps??? Oh also... Why would it be hard to assume that Brassica is just that, a cabbage? . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 09:39, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
Jagex have actually recently stated that "God" is a race. Remember how Guthix was only the last Naragi for a short while? Anyway, cabbages are vegetables, they don't talk or bounce. Regarding race, see this. Adventurer's log Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon.png 10:15, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, no I don't remember them saying "god" is a race :-/ More like a status. Well cabbages don't talk, human's ain't blue, Mahjarrat don't have impressive eyebrows, a bird with 8 wings is ridiculous... seems like it makes perfect sense to see Brassica as a vegetable in that sense :P Btw, plants are known to communicate in some way, but I don't know a whole lot about it. If things are emplified... why not that? (I still prefer the Prime=illusion-to-cope idea much better anyway.)
I know that "race" is not only used wrongly in RuneScape, other fantasy games/realms and the USA... but a mistake is a mistake. I mean Tolkien may have started it... but does that mean RS orks are also something like undead elves? No... not quite. But it was more of a side note anyway. . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 11:30, January 7, 2014 (UTC)