# Talk:Pay-to-play Runecrafting training

This talk page is for discussing the Pay-to-play Runecrafting training page.

Looking over the page, a lot of this information is misleading or incorrect. It's too based on profit/hour (and the numbers are off anyway)

Case in point: Where are law runes? This guide says "Crafting double Astral runes is generally considered one of the best non-combat money making methods in the game" Whoever wrote this has no idea what he's saying. At guide price, each astral is 118 at the moment. Double astrals = 236 income / ess. Subtract the price of p ess (126), and you get 120 gp per ess. Now let's look at law runes. You get 90 gp profit per essence used IF you consider you only get 1 law per 1 ess (So at level 54). However, at level 83, you'll have something like a 20% chance of getting an extra law (equivalent to 1.2 laws per essence). Let's redo the math, then. 1.2 times 206 = 247.2. Subtract the price of p ess, and you get 131 gp profit per essence. And this is just guesswork. I get about 70ish laws per 54 essence abyss crafting laws at level 88. 70*206-54*116= 8156 profit per run. Opposed to astrals, which comes out to 6480 gp profit per run. And this isn't considering the fact that astrals give less exp than laws.

Also, lol at suggesting natures all the way from 44 to 99. It's a complete waste to do them after 54 if you aren't 99. It really should be changed from 44-54, simply because the exp and profit per hour is inferior to laws.

Really the reason I'm posting this is an explanation for why laws should be put back in. So there. 74.90.198.19 07:27, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Some stuff may have been outdated/hasn't been updated at all. If you want, feel free to add in the law rune section/expand our guide. Powers38 おはようヾ(´･ω･｀) 07:53, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
It's supposed to be about exp too right, Laws grant more exp than Astrals, at least per essence, I have no idea about time etc. 11:35, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

## Law Runes?

Just noticed that the section on law runes has gone. Has it been officially decided as slow experience or something? Also, nature runes are there twice.

## Death Crafting with new elf crystal teleport

I think this could possibly be as fast as graahk crafting, and I'm going to be testing its feasibility. Of course, the only downside will be needing a lot of the teleport crystals--Panama 1984 17:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

And don't you have to travel around the maze each single run you do? That'd be a lot of trouble. 16:58, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
• Death rune crafting via abyss is only 0.5xp less per essence than crafting blood runes. But this can make you up to 700k/ hour.

## Merging

I don't think there's much of a point in having a separate article on training the Runecrafting skill. I propose merging Runecrafting with this article.
Andrew talk 22:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

This article should belong to training guide series. 07:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why they have cake, amulet of glory, and why dont they have spotted/spottier cape????

Nah, It's too big to add to the other page, it fits well here.

## Money and Experience Made per Hour (natures)

Doesn't make sense. "assuming 6000 runes made per hour" ... Then if it's 1x or 2x it wouldn't matter, since you're making 6000 runes in the hour anyway. --

It means using 6k essence in one hour. You sometimes craft more than just one or more than just two runes from each essence depending on your luck --McWolf14

## Rework of article

I'm proposing to rework this article to include some of the templates that I made for Free-to-play Runecrafting training. I'd also like to include some of the unique differences for training purposes that happen with members and how that significantly impacts even mundane runecrafting locations like the Air altar.

Essentially, I'd like to know who might be willing to help me out on some technical advise and to try and coordinate an update to this article. I certainly don't want to be stepping on too many toes while doing a rewrite, and I think it could be useful to point out the value of various training options as opposed to demanding a single training strategy in terms of a one size fits all. Certainly some economic realities are starting to come forward with changes in the price of Death, Earth, and Water runes that are going to change this guide somewhat, and I'd like to get some feedback from at least anybody who might be interested in helping me out.

The templates used for the F2P guide are certainly going to need some modification to cope with other options while runecrafting, and calculations in terms of runes or experience per hour can vary significantly from one player to the next based on a huge variety of skills that have been completed, from summoning, agility, mining and even magic. At least some idea on how to tackle this topic would be appreciated, no matter how small of a suggestion it might be. --Robert Horning 14:14, September 22, 2009 (UTC)

I'm currently going for 99 RuneCrafting myself and embarrassingly enough I've researched what knowledge there is about this skill back to front, everything from banking methods, xp rates, what is worth doing and what's not, and so on. I'd love to help but quite honestly I have so much information to share that I'm not entirely sure all of it would be welcome. Some of my advice could also be controversial, especially to those that value money over time/xp.Jek NexusT C E 03:28, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

An example? Makxtrl Talk 03:32, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
Share it, you could use my talk page if you don't want to do it on the main article, feel free to do it, I'm interested. Makxtrl Talk 03:33, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
As a guide, this should be some helpful information to the uninitiated. Almost every altar has multiple methods to get to it... particularly for members. Even the Body Altar has good training methods that exceed F2P in every aspect. This page, as written, presumes that there is one and only one way to craft each rune, and that we are a bunch of bots following a script to get to level 99. I think that is the wrong approach to take. Players have different objectives, goals, and training philosophies that they would like to have met, so I believe it is important to show the factual information on how to accomplish the tasks and let the players decide for themselves when it would be more efficient to switch to another training/creation method.
If we give "just the facts, ma'am", it would also help to keep the controversial aspects of a training guide paired down. There are several altars that are missing from this training guide, and I find that to be unfortunate as well. Telling players to "get all your runes from the abyss... you're a member!" is sort of disingenuous and narrow focused as well. BTW Jek.... thanks for coming by and commenting on this. Any details that you could provide would be very much appreciated. --Robert Horning 17:01, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

## Glory

According to the ZMI guide, you need an amulet of glory. Can someone enlighten me why?

20:23, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

## Zmi-Sacred clay armor good too!

A person could also wear Sacred Clay Armour which gives the same stats as Full Rune but weighs 8k. Wearing Black D'hide makes you weigh about 15k. A person could just wear full Sacred Clay armor and use Protect from Mage.

Also! What about those penancnce gloves? Don't those gloves reduce your weight as well? I'm pretty sure there are gloves from the Barbarian mini-game that reduces your weight.

## Approximation?

lol @ the introduction: it states that you can expect to make 'approximately' 423,626,something coins profit. shouldnt this numer be a little less exact, like, 425m?

## Fire runes?

I think that the articles backing of fire runes is heavily misleading. Fire runes are NOT an efficient way to train runecrafting for one reason: Multiple crafting. For example, at level 14, when you start crafting fires, you can already craft a guaranteed 2 mind runes or 2 air runes, for 10 and 11 xp per ess compared to fire runes 7 xp per ess and much less financial loss, even assuming you buy the runes. While it is true that you can craft multiple runes before the guarantee, the rate is much lower even up and until the guarantee. By level 19, you can craft waters for profit, and for 12 xp guaranteed, compared to the 7 of fire. You cannot get fire's double rune guarantee until level 35! By then, you can craft cosmics, and bodies, and chaoses (though those suck for training). Furthermore, by then, you can also guarantee four airs per ess! Hence, fire runes should not be marketed as an efficient way to train rc.--Zmflavius 23:06, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

You get runecrafting experience per rune essence used, not per rune created. Fires are fast because of the fast banking (ring of duelling for castlewars bank and duel arena), but at a significant financial loss. In any case ourania is likely to be faster experience at pretty much every level. 23:12, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
I stand corrected.--Zmflavius 02:39, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

## Dunegeoneering

I think the best way to level up RC, at the cost of gaining no cash, is by going into Daemonheim, selling as MANY things as POSSIBLE. Then, buy as many rune ess you can get. Once you do this, though the experience is slow, craft air runes. Then, sell them, and buy more rune essence. The slow xp is made up for in the fact that the more runes you make the more cash you get, so if you make 5x like me, you get more cash allowing you to continue. And the fact that it doesn't affect your gold from the rest of RuneScape. Dr j 26 00:11, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Due to certain updates to Dungeoneering, this no longer works.

Iavirissa 21:36, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

We need to focus more on TRAINING runecrafting more than money-making with runecrafting on this article.

## Too focused on profit

This article seems to be all about profit. There's no mention of any training method that's faster and makes a loss. What about tiara crafting? That's great exp, but it's not mentioned. 92.4.227.194 13:35, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, and what about cave crawlers, that's better xp per hour than crafting nature runes. 10:41, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

Wicked Hood should be mentioned too...

0087adam 14:00, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

## ZMI table - profit per hour?

In the ZMI table, it says 75-80 runecrafting generates 25 k / hour profit at ZMI. But in the same table, it says 80-90 runecrafting generates 150 k / hour profit at ZMI.

I know this table is just a guideline, but there is a huge inconsistency - at 80 runecrafting, the jump in profit / hour cannot be that large. Firstly, which profit per hour would one get at 80 runecrafting: 25 k / hour or 150 k / hour? It can't be both. And secondly, the profit/hour has to be a little more graduated, because there is nothing at 80 runecrafting to go from 25 k / hour profit to then jump to 150 k / hour profit. 80 runecrafting is not a target runecrafting level like 75 runecrafting (giant pouch) or 91 runecrafting (double nature runes). Can someone smooth out this part of the table?

~~penguin

It's not an inconsistency. It's because of the randomness of the runes it gives; it can go from 25k (being very unlucky and getting a few runes) and then 150k per hour (being very lucky and getting a good amount of runes). The amount of higher levelled runes increases as your level increases (so I've heard), so that is also a factor. S T Y G 03:05, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

## A couple things...

For items needed in alot of the sections is says you need a charged amulet of glory but without the heroes quest that seems pretty inefficient to keep buying glorys

Also getting to the abyss is full of 1 hit pkers now so that may not be the best idea...

Energy potions are almost useless for ZMI if you are high enough agility

nothing for 1-14 runecrafting, the guide kind of makes it seem like you should start out at ZMI which is very dangerous, maybe add air runes to start?

It's been mathematically proved several times that they're only worth getting if you're going past 99 (not to mention that if you buy Blood altar teleport instead of the robes you get a higher exp per hour).

The article is for runecrafting training, it's not about how long it takes to get the items to help train runecrafting. Agile takes hours and yet it is suggested as well. 18:03, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

## Wicked Hood

Someone needs to add information about the Wicked Hood on here, It can be valuble in training because it allows 2 teleports to the altar every day and 100 free essence that you can take out of the hat at the altar. Using this method along with some of my own pure essence and pouches, I can get over 1k xp in one trip to the law altar. I would add it myself but I'm too depressed right now.

0087adam 13:59, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

## Blood runes were totally off the chart

It stated that 2,250 blood runes could be made in an hour? As if! Using 4 pouches, as a regular blood runner would, I managed to make just over 1,600 within an hour and repeated basically the same result so for this I've changed it. Anyone else have similar values?

## Running in Runespan??

Seriously? That's a blatant lie. The best XP rates are gotten from not running. Too much island hopping affects XP rates in the long run AND they drain too many Runespan points. It's best to "camp" as few islands as possible. Not only can you "AFK" train comfortably, but the XP rates are more than good enough.

If that section is not looked at and revised, I'll feel very compelled to doing it myself.

Real Ciel 05:19, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

## Expanded

Looks like with the latest rune improvements updates this needs to be overhauled, one example is pouches now use their ess automatically, messing with run times (xp/hr) and others (I'll let someone more wiki enclined make the updates/add "recent update" header)

Dojorune (talk) 18:13, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

## Plan on rewriting and restructuring P2P RC Training guide

Hi there,

I am going to take the assignment of restructuring this page as I couldnt bare seeing the page as it is in it's current state. I am a vivid Runecrafter for almost 7 years so I got quite some experience on the subject matter. I had some ideas of to divide the page in the following sections:

1. General tricks for crafting runes.

This section would cover most of the basics concerning Crafting runes for experience as efficient as possible (Does not include Runespan coverage)

2. Abyss (Cosmic, Nature, Law, Death & Blood runes)

This section would cover the Abyss and how to craft runes via this medium most efficiently.

3. Crafting Astral runes

Covers crafting Astral runes as it is described as in the current guide, with a little bit of tweeking to make it up to date.

4. Crafting Nature runes by means of "Graahk running"

Covers crafting Nature runes as described in the current guide with some up to date info; e.g. inventory quick saves, Massive Pouch. Clear stats on experience gain per hour would be mendatory.

5. Ourania Altar

Current Ourania Altar guide seems fine but needs a bit of tweaking too.

6. Runespan

Let me know below if you have any other suggestions or input.

Azraelios (talk) 21:11, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

## Update to the guide (August 2015)

Abyss

As it says on the page, the XP rates are based off players completing a "run" of the abyss in 1 minute (so 60 runs per hour). They also assume the player has this much essence per run:

• Levels 1-25: 27 ess in inventory + 3 in small pouch (30)
• Levels 25-50: 26 ess in inventory + 3 in small pouch + 6 in medium pouch (35)
• Levels 50-75: 25 ess in inventoy + 3 in small pouch + 6 in med + 9 in large (43)
• Levels 75+: 24 ess in invent +3 +6 +9 +12 in giant pouch (54)

Runespan

Node XP rates (at 99 RC):

Node Level XP/time measured Equivalent XP/hr
Living soul 90 21538/10 129228
Bloody skulls 83 21266/10m 45s 118694
Nebula 40 19627/10m 15s 114890
Shifter 44 18683/10m 30s 106760
Skulls 65 11668/7m 100011
Blood pool 77 18599/11m 99195
Chaotic cloud 35 16754/10m 15s 98072
Jumper 54 18159/11m 15s 96848
Fleshy growth 20 16628/10m 45s 92807
Fire storm 27 14918/10m 45s 83263
Vine 17 13932/10m 15s 81553
Fireball 14 12937/10m 30s 73927
Rock fragment 9 11704/10m 15s 68511
Water pool 5 11282/10m 30s 64469
Mindstorm 1 9404/10m 56424
Cyclone 1 9523/10m 15s 55744

Creature XP rates (at 99 RC):

Creature Level XP/time measured Equivalent XP/hr
Soul 90 4864/5.5m 53062
Blood 77 3718/5.5m 40560
Law 54 3018/5m 15s 35161
Nature 44 2684/5m 15s 30674
Death 65 3655/5.5m 28963
Astral 40 2559/5.5m 27916
Body 20 2241/5m 26892
Cosmic 27 2194/5m 15s 25074
Chaos 35 2221/5.5m 24229
Fire 14 1891/5m 15s 21611
Earth 9 1681/5m 15s 19211
Water 5 1543/5m 15s 18516
Air 1 1258/5m 14773
Mind 1 1146/5m 13752

XP rates:

When I was getting XP rates for nodes I tried to keep track of what islands each type of node tended to spawn on. When getting XP rates from actual training I used combinations of islands where I thought the best possible nodes tended to spawn frequently. There maybe better islands to use than the ones mentioned in the guide.

Lower level:

• Level 1-9 (using island 1) - 974/3.5m = 16697
• 9-16 (using island 16) - 1742/4m = 26130
• 16-20 (" ") - 1737/3m 45s = 27792
• 20-25 (" ") - 3370/7m 45s = 26090
• 25-30 (" ") - 5527/12m 15s = 27071
• 30-33 (" ") - 4853/10m 15s = 28408
• 15-25 (using island 1) - 5265/14m 15s = 21747
• 15-25 (using island 16) - 5166/12m 15s = 25303
• 25-33 (" ") - 10414/22.5m = 27771

Middle level:

• 33-35 (using island 16 on lower level) - 4148/.8.5m = 29280
• 33-35 (using island 5/6 on middle level) - 4064/6m 45s = 36124
• 35-40 (using island 5/6) - 14887/24m 15s = 36834
• 40-42 (using island 5/6) - 8284/14m = 35503
• 40-42 (using islands 21/22/23/20/16/19/18) - 8237/11.5m = 42976
• 42-45 (" ") - 16031/22m = 43721
• 46-50 (" ") - 33381/45m = 44508
• 50-51 (" ") - 10617/13.5m = 47187
• 51-55 (" ") - 54798/67m = 49073
• 57-60 (" ") - 66155/80m = 49616
• 61-63 (" ") - 63529/69m 45s = 54649
• 63-64 (" ") - 36519/42m = 52170
• 64-65 (" ") - 41430/46m 45s = 54807
• 65-66 (" ") - 44173/48m = 55216

Upper level:

• 66 (using islands 21/22/23/20/16/19/18 on middle floor) - 30710/31m 15s = 58963
• 66-67 (using islands 12/13/14/15/16/17) - 22772/21m 15s = 64297
• 67 (" ") - 31421/30m = 62842
• Average for level 66-67 + 67 = 53698/51m 15s = 62866
• 99 (using islands 32/30/29/27/25) - 93196/60m

Runesphere

At level 99 experience from siphoning each layer

• Air layer: 1159/1m15s -- 1427/1m 30s
• Mind: 1600/1m 45s -- 1580/1m 45s
• Water: 1852/1m 45s -- 2080/1m 45s
• Earth: 1983/1m 45s -- 2175/2m (+445 dust)
• Fire: 1264/1m -- 2948/2m 15s (+508 dust)
• Body: 3153/2m

14:24, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

• Some more XP rates from Runespan between 66-99.
• Confirm when to switch islands (currently recommended at ~90)
• Add more information/strategy about using runesphere to get additional XP (seems most XP comes from handing in dust, a full cap of which can be gathered in the final 2 layers by a player with 99 RC).

14:24, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

## Wicked Hood + teleport tokens

233.8k xp/hr using the full duration of the illumination aura +100% exp without using runecrafting bonus exp or outfit.

Equipped: Wicked hood, greater runic staff (for npc contact), morytania legs 4, tokkul-zo. Inventory: small, medium, large, giant, and massive pouch, pure rune essence. Abbysal Titan: pure rune essence.

Makes around 100-120 blood runes per trip. On average 2k xp drops per trip.

Used 117 hood teleports.

Used 10.7k pure essence.

A cycle of bank->fill->teleport->craft takes approximately 20-21 seconds.

Overall trip could have been faster if replacing npc contact with repair pouches spell. First, because dialogue takes while. Second, you will have to repair less frequently.

Vusanson (talk) 02:03, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

## Suggested edit: Law Runes.

```The altar is located on Entrana and thus doesn't allow Wilderness Sword. A notation should be added to notify players of this fact (I certainly didn't remember until it was too late, thus wasting a run). Per hour xp ratios should also be lowered to reflect this (Lodestoning to Edgeville instead of teleporting).
```

Thatonecoolkid99 (talk) 15:26, September 28, 2017 (UTC) Thatonecoolkid99

Thanks for pointing this out. The xp rate should be around the same while using glories, which can taken onto Entrana. I've clarified this in the guide. 10:10, October 6, 2017 (UTC)