Talk:Melee

From the RuneScape Wiki, the wiki for all things RuneScape
Jump to: navigation, search
This talk page is for discussing the Melee page.

Melee vs. mêlée[edit source]

I contend that this article should be entitled "mêlée", not "melee". Although I am an advocate of the "British spelling" policy, I think that this is intended to apply to British over American spellings of English words.

This is a French word, and should be spelt the French way. The article as it stands even concedes that is pronounced "may-lay". If we were to Anglicise it and spell it without the accents then surely we also pronounce it as if it were an English word (i.e. like "melly" or "meely").

I think that "mêlée" is the correct spelling of this word, and although it may often be written without the accents, in an encyclopaedia it should be correct in a formal sense.

However, I must provide a counter-argument by pointing out that the word is consistently spelt without the accents in [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewcategory.ws?cat_id=816 the Melee section of the RuneScape manual].

So which should take priority? Anyone is welcome to commit to one side or the other. ;-) Many thanks. Leevclarke 22:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I say British spelling, for the two reasons you (Leevclarke) stated. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!I have 12 friends. 22:51, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Well I could have guessed that, given that you were the one who changed it back! :-p You wouldn't write "café" without the accent, surely? The same principle applies here. Leevclarke 16:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Melee does do most damage if i say so myself so i'm retyping it in. My range levels the same as my strength def and att and its pritty obvious which one is better to me

Amount of damage[edit source]

Just to say I changed a statement on this page today, which said that melee inflicts more damage compared with Ranged and Magic. Well my Attack, Strength, Defence and Ranged levels are all about the same, and I find that melee and ranged attacks do about the same amount of damage. I use the best weapons I can for my level, and optimal armour for each, for the purposes of comparison.

Therefore, I have changed this statement to reflect that melee and ranged do about the same, and I have postulated that magic will "probably" be about as effective as well (with a similar magic level, using the highest-level combat spells possible, and wearing appropriate armour).

I have had a look through the Combat section of the manual, and there is no mention of any particular advantage for one type of combat over the others, except the combat triangle (which gives each an advantage and a disadvantage against another, and overall they are all equally balanced). So I think that the statement to say melee is best overall is probably incorrect, which is why I have removed it. :-) Leevclarke 22:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


Is defence a melee skill?[edit source]

I don't believe defence to be a melee skill for a number of reasons:

  • Attack and Strength can only be trained by meleers whereas defence can be trained by mages and rangers.
  • Defence is just as important for mage & range as it is for melee.
  • To calculate the melee part of your combat level you do: ((attack x 130)+(strength x 130)) divided by 400. No defence there.
  • Melee implies hitting something, which defence does not actually entail.

I have refrained from removing defence as I realise there may be some objection to this, which is why I am asking for a consensus from the community. Thanks

Quest.png Jobla6 Crystal bow.png

07:30, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

You raise a very good point. In addition, melee implies hitting something, which defence does not actually entail. However I'm fairly sure that most people will feel the opposite way. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 07:33, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll add that into the main arguments. 07:53, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I, too, believe that Defence should not be listed as a melee skill. It is no more a melee skill than Constitution. Rather, Defence is a general combat skill which applies to any form of combat, including melee. I do not think the article should not mention Defence right alongside Attack and Strength as the principle skills of melee combat; however, it could mention that Defence factors into any form of combat. What if you're meleeing a mage? Defence is most certainly not a 'melee skill' then. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 23:58, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

I mainly take to it the combat formula. Defence and hitpoints affect your combat level in the same amount. Other pairs being attack+strength, range+mage, and prayer+summoning. As defense can be trained by any of the three, I see it as just like hipoints. The main reason people think of it as a melee skill, is because with mage/range it is impossible to get pure defence experience, it will be half and half at best. Whereas with melee, you can train all of them independently...so that's why it is naturally seen the other way. HaloTalk 00:02, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

I always understood it that the higher your magic level, the higher "magic defense" you had; same for range. I've never looked into it, that's just what I've always heard - that Defense has nothing to do with magic defense or ranged defense, instead it is purely a melee skill (so they say). In regards to being able to train defense through magic or ranged: Meh, just putting this out there. (; sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 00:05, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Magic defence is 70% Defence and 30% Magic. And I've never heard of your Ranged level affecting your Ranged defence. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 00:06, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
I was under the impression Ranged acts like Attack and Strength combined into one skill for archery. Achievements Coelacanth0794 Talk Contribs 00:07, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
That matches what I know. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 00:09, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Defence is a combat skill, but I don't think defence is a melee skill. It is simple, all you do is defend yourself. Do you punch your adamant kiteshield into someone? I think not... --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 02:11, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know... Defence is actually mainly trainable with melee, and melee is also the only style with which you can train pure defence. The other two it is just like "they train defence much less than str/att, so we stimulate them". It was also added later than original melee defence. I believe defensive casting even came in rs2, so originally it is a melee skill. Also, the GG does show defence training at the melee article [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/sym_melee_the_basics#training_defence] so that confirms it is officially a melee skill. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 13:29, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Ding ding ding, give that man a prize. (wszx) 16:30, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
The fact that the Game Guide's melee page has a section on training Defence is not adequate evidence that Defence is counted as a melee skill. I would say that the section is there because fighting defensively is one of your four attack style options with melee- it goes on to explain Controlled fighting right below the Defensive section. None of the arguments have been responded to: Defence can be trained with all three combat styles (although it is easiest with melee), it affects your combat level independently of and in a different fashion than Attack and Strength (much like Constitution, which everyone knows is an independent combat skill), and it is used in all forms of combat, not simply melee. I would like to see some responses to those points. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 19:42, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
Let's say all 3 attacking skills have a shared mode. Ranging has rng+def, magic has mage+def and melee has att+str+def. Then indeed defence would be independent. This is not the case, however, as aside from the standard controlled mode for each style, melee also has the seperate defence style. As melee has a seperate style for def additional to to the standard controlled style, you could say melee has more defence than the other two, so defence is primarily melee. Also melee is the only style that has pure defence, the other two have rng/mage mixed with it. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 23:01, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
This may be true, but the fact that Defence is primarily trained through melee combat does not mean that Defence is any less important to Magic and Ranged than it is to melee- which is the real definition of whether a given skill can be classified according to a combat style. Much like Constitution, Defence is integral to all forms of combat, and can't be generalized as a skill specific to any one style. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 23:21, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
Actually the real definition is what Jagex says. It's why dungeoneering is a skill not a minigame, and it's why Defense is a melee skill. You can bitch and dispute and argue all you want but Jagex designed the game and what they say goes. (wszx) 23:51, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
Behave. Also, as I have already said, I do not believe that the listing of Defence in the melee article on the Knowledge Base constitutes a definition by Jagex of the Defence skill as a melee skill. I continue to assert that Defence is no more or less important to any of the combat styles than any other combat style- that is, it is equally important to all forms of combat, and associating it with one particular style is incorrect and shows potential bias. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 00:02, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
Don't bandy about that policy at me, I've not violated it. If you don't consider Jagex's listing defense as a constituent skill of "melee" a reliable source, then I have a hard time imagining what source you'll accept. And, actually, doing anything other than what Jagex has laid out in the guide it wrote is the biased action. (It is worth noting that simply saying that defense is a melee skill doesn't mean it doesn't interact with any other style.) You cant point out that of the three, defense plays into ranged and magic, but you cannot say it is not a melee skill when the guide contradicts what you say. (If we go down this path, though, attack also is cross-skilled, as it governs when magic staves may be wielded.) (wszx) 01:23, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
You cannot misleadingly state that Defence is a melee skill when it implies that Defence is exclusively or chiefly a melee skill. I reworded the article's opening paragraph to both state that Defence is involved in melee combat and that it is not exclusive to melee. This, I feel, is appropriate. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 01:37, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
(reset) Defence is primarily a melee skill. Why else would almost ALL armours for melee require defence, while ranged and magic, once again, are shared. you need level x ranged and level(lower) y defence.(same for magic) For melee armor, you need defence only. the most things you can reach with defence is ability to equip melee armor. Also, why is the icon, the thing that represents the defence skill, a melee shield? If it would have been shared, it would probably be something else. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 11:31, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Defence is not even close to being primarily melee. Defence level is vital in both ranged and mage defence, defence level affects each type of combat level the same way etc. As people mentioned above, defence training being enabled on magic is irrelevant, defence level still affects the way you get hit by magic attacks. Just my two cents. bad_fetustalk 19:47, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I would say that Defense is primarily a melee skill simply because more people use it for melee and train it with melee. However, that does not mean that Defense is exclusively a melee skill. I would call it a melee skill, but also mention that it is a magic and ranged skill. --LiquidTalk 00:08, November 25, 2010 (UTC)