Talk:Invention training

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This talk page is for discussing the Invention training page.

Worthless duplicative article[edit source]

It seems like this article is just a summary of the main Invention article. It is titled Invention Training, yet there is only one sentence dedicated to training invention at the very bottom of the article. The rest of the article basically summarizes the main article with no new information. Scrap this article or get into specifics of how to train it by itemizing what to train at certain levels, xp gained by performing certain actions, comparisons between different training methods, etc. 01:03, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

Currently, as the skill is still brand new, "effective" methods are not yet fully developed (e.g. it used to be great to put perks into gizmos, but this is no longer the case). As such, creating a correct guide isn't necessarily very effective without more knowledge about training the skill. I understand the desire for a decent guide to properly training the skill, but since everything has been changing at a pretty rapid pace, it can be hard to keep up with. Foxboy94 (talk) 01:11, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

Isn't deleting this however and placing it on Invention very short sighted? They mentioned they will expand the skill once a month this year. --Jlun2 (talk) 01:20, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

Training process[edit source]

The process is different if you are "straight in" compared with if you have time to prepare while you gain the levels to access this "elite" skill. IN the second case you should have been making 600 rings of slaying every day for some time....

Rich Farmbrough, 12:12 28 January 2016 (UTC).

Invention tutorial to lvl 5[edit source]

I don't know if this is just me, but I think I got lvl 5 by the time I finished the invention tutorial. Should that be mentioned? Droomph (talk) 17:09, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

I believe that the experience received during the tutorial has changed with the most recent updates to how experience is gained in the skill. Foxboy94 (talk) 06:29, January 29, 2016 (UTC)

Adding a column to weapon training[edit source]

Thoughts on adding a column which says what XP is required for different invention levels? So level 2 weaps require X amount of XP? I'll be happy to to do so :) --Akthanakos camel chathead.png Karimabuseer Talk Azzanadra ghost.png 23:25, January 29, 2016 (UTC)

That sounds like a great idea, useful too. Do we know the xp rates for different monsters? I've heard some places that it's a % of the combat xp, others that its a varying number. I feel like that would be something to look into adding to the template used for monsters at some point Foxboy94 (talk) 01:41, January 30, 2016 (UTC)

Abby whip mention[edit source]

I'm happy with the way this article is being improved upon. I noticed at the very bottom it mentions ideal augmented weapons to train. It mentions Korasi's sword which costs 500k gp to replace. I think the abby whip should be included as well or instead of Korasi's sword because it's cheaper at less than 200k gp on the GE. Also, since it is the main hand weapon to the Excalibur which received a well deserved mention in that section also at 500 gp replacement value. The best scenario would be to train those two weapons in tandem. Keep up the good work, all! =) 13:58, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

What's the benefit of training those two items together? All items give the same amount of experience. MolMan 14:10, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
Once upon a time, whip/Excalibur was the best non-degrading dual-wield combo. It has since been superseded by vine whip/Jessika's sword. However, choosing to make them degrading by augmenting them, IMO, doesn't make them better than any other dual-wield, e.g., dual drygores. --Saftzie (talk) 17:18, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
My point in mentioning an augmented whip/excalibur as a training method is the cost in comparison to the other dual-wield mentioned above since the best xp is from dismantling the augmented weps. I thought it was worthy of mention (whip/whip vine & excalibur dual) since the cost of replacing those is a lot less. 09:42, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Disassembly[edit source]

Among the training methods, I guess it's safe to say that Disassembling stuff is the "slow" way to train? Sunchoke seed, Fly trap seed, Wishing well bush seed, are cute for a 2.5 xp/gp ratio. Dismantling stuff during Slayer tasks can be nice filler XP, assuming you're willing to take apart those Rune weapons/armor drops for 15 xp or an elemental battlestaff for 9 XP, rather than alching it. --Deltaslug (talk) 18:21, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

Leveling augmented items is how Jagex intends for players to earn Invention xp. It's why they nerfed xp for disassembling bows and for making gizmos last week, while buffing disassembly/siphoning of augmented items. Meanwhile, disassembly is intended to slow the creation of currency through alchemy. (Disassembly does nothing to solve the glut of currency already in the game. That's a separate problem.) So the balance Jagex is trying to achieve is to make disassembly more attractive than alchemy, while keeping it from becoming a training method itself. --Saftzie (talk) 19:12, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

Divine Charges and Augmentors factored in[edit source]

Should Divine charges be considered a way to do early training?

Depending on how you train, there should be an estimate on how many Divine charges you're going to need. 100? 200? 500? That's not even including dismantle xp to get the parts.

If you figure you need say 250 Divine Charges, that's 250 x 220 xp = 55,000 xp. Enough to get you to Level 19. I'll also be conservative and say you dismantled enough logs and what not to get 5000 Simple Parts, so even at 1:1, you're talking at least 5k xp, maybe more. (ok a lot more. At min, you're already up to Level 20. Even if the math was a little off, don't forget their are a few things you can discover between Level 5-19.

Do you go Siphon or All augments? This would determine how many augments you need to make. If you choose to siphon your way to 99 or 120, and stick with 1 combat style, you'll probably never need more than 3 augments. 495 xp ea, so at least 1485. The rest of your XP earned will depend on when you Siphon. Lvl 8 gear? Lvl 10? Lvl 12? this would make the Siphon XP at 300 invention xp x each siphon made.

Otherwise, you would need 66-67 augmentors to get 99 alone (for 33,165 XP, + whatever XP you had for disassembly) or 149? for Level 120 (for about 69285 xp + disassembly xp)

If you took the siphon route, you would probably just sub the xp for the augmentors for the siphon construction xp.

So depending on your route, you could be level 22 or 23 before you even really start doing anything, but have all the materials you need to reach the end.

Just something to consider. --Deltaslug (talk) 22:34, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

How to make augmentors?[edit source]

This article should try to explain how to get the materials for augmentors for the cheapest money. As of now that's my main problem with training invention, and I'd think that would be a good thing to add to the guide. However, I have no real method of getting the right materials etc... Droomph (talk) 21:08, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

DIY Approach to getting gear[edit source]

So guessing an overview if you want to get gear yourself:

- Barrows - Pro: up to 8 gear sets, all of the gear is augmentable (except for helms). Cons: Only Level 70, meleers may need to mix and match set pieces depending on their luck

- God Wars Dungeon - Pro: multiple T75 and even T80 weapons and armor. Cons: Commander Zilyana only drops weapons, Nex may not be soloable for some, Level 70 skill requirements for some to enter boss room, chance of Helm/Boots/Gloves just as likely as Body/Legs/Shield

- Ganodermic - Pro: self sustaining mage gear. Cons: Mage only, 95 Slayer, need high level crafting to make Ganodermic Armor and cost of fire runes for staff

- Questing - Pro: access to various weapons at fixed cost. Cons: weapons currently top out at T78 Sunspear, some quests are longer than others, no real armor choices

- [[Dungeoneering] - Pro: access to T80 weapons and shields. Cons: basically need 1m dungeoneering xp for 1h weapons or 2m xp for 2h weapons, no body or leg armor options

- Crystal equipment - Pros: multiple ways to get around Elf City, basic Crystal Weapon and Armor Seeds are tradeable. Cons: Need access to Prifddinas, 90+ thieving to pickpocket, if combat drops need high combat stats. Weapons and shield slot only, currently the rest of crystal armor isn't augmentable and that would still require The Light Within

Did I miss much? --Deltaslug (talk) 01:41, August 14, 2016 (UTC)

Tinderboxes and Hammers?[edit source]

This page needs some info on training invention through smithing and firemaking, as currently it doesn't even mention them. 13:32, June 17, 2017 (UTC)

Fishing Frenzy and Augmented Crystal Fishing Rod[edit source]

Utilizing this method may be the fastest way to level an augmented tool. I just started one tonight and in less than an hour, my augmented crystal fishing rod is at level 8. I'm stopping for tonight but have no doubt it will hit level 12 tomorrow for siphoning. Fishing Frenzy is available at the deep sea fishing platform. Once your streak hits 200 and you hit the 20% XP bonus, the XP really adds up FAST. I also have Enlighted and Wise perks via the equipment gizmos on my crystal fishing rod. The only trade-off is you don't get any fish, just XP. However this also means you don't have to drop or bank. It's also not AFK; you have to pay attention and keep clicking, otherwise the XP bonus will reset. But for fast training of Invention that doesn't involve combat or any running costs (like the need for prayer potions and food when you're doing combat), this may just be the best way to go. I'm adding this here instead of the main page though because I don't want to add it there until it's verified/other people have the same experience. Anyone else willing to test it and get back to me? --2601:346:C003:C039:0:0:0:3B9D 04:22, June 12, 2018 (UTC)

Discovery Truly Random?[edit source]

Hello, I think it would be useful to know if discovery is truly random, or if there's a set of defined puzzles. But also, if there are statistical properties to the puzzles, such as, when you do the 10 choose 5 operation at the beginning of the puzzle, does that operation effect the outcome of the puzzle, or is that part of the puzzle separate from the rest of the puzzle. I'm going to try to find out myself, I created this spreadsheet:

If anyone wants to help and fork it, fork my spreadsheet, and post it here. The order on my sets is from the tip of the upsidedown u, to the other tip of the upsidedown u, so basically, up, across, down. Ordered sets is the order that the sets are in after I have found them, top row left to right, bottom row left to right. I have also found, tentatively, that Discovery seems to save itself, i.e. you don't get new puzzles, which may speak to the idea that there is a finite set of puzzles smaller than the finite set defined by combinatorics. Fort33dople 1 (talk) 19:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

This guide needs re-writing[edit source]

It is all over the place, not ordered and contains duplicate inforamtion. Parzivalx (talk) 22:43, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

I just rewrote some large sections, and looking to rewrite in the future. I recently did 120 invention and I was super confused by this article at first LOL - hopefully I'm making it better. Feedback is appreciated. Naenathan (talk) 14:15, 29 May 2023 (UTC)