Talk:Evolution of Combat

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This talk page is for discussing the Evolution of Combat page.

Prayer flashing and armour[edit source]

Will we be able to pray flash after the overhaul? Will armor still work normally or be incredibly changed? Any1 got a gander?

Rune warhammer detail.png Anzu68 Rune warhammer detail.png, 19:38, June 4, 2012 (UTC)anzu68

In pvp I'd say pray flash will be impossible, just considering how many different abilities will be happening in between the normal auto-attacks. In pVE i don't know, but if they have revamped the monsters as well to match new combat, then probably no flashing there either. I think armor will work relatively normal--they are removing dmg absorb, and ALL armor will add hp...LOTS of hp, If you look at the video with the combat rework abilities, in the fish flingers section, the char in full void has like 30,000 HP, so I'm expecting something around that for high level chars..the only other news I have on prayer is that they will be releasing some mager/range equiv's of ancient curses, and will fix the leeching. Possibly will add some equiv's for standard prayer, but it is confirmed for ancient curses. --liosrakia
Hi. The reason the Char/NPC in the video you mentioned has 30,000HP was because the RS Mods were using at as a "punch bag" to show off the new abilities. Armor will not increase HP to that much. 15:54, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
Im going to take a guess and say a player with 99hp will have maybe 5,000hp with full torva, assuming by the hint videos where ultimates are used. nobody knows for certain besides jmods
Just so everyone knows, all those random IP edits are mine, not some crazy person! Just keep forgetting to login...more on the way! ---Liosrakia

Godswords are pointless...[edit source]

Whats the point of having different hilts on godswords if special attacks are being removed?
Godwars is going to lose some popularity, since one of the good drops is now pointless. I can see why people would buy a standard godsword, but with the EoC, wouldnt everyone with a godsword be best to sell it and downgrade to a BGS?
Godswords cant be removed from the game, it messes around with the storyline of the GWD, without the Godsword the GWD shouldnt exist...
whats the plan jagex?

Based on what Jagex has said, it appears that godswords are going to be very powerful. They won't be useless at all. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 21:27, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
It seems that the only difference between the godswords will be a cosmetic one 11:59, June 23, 2012 (UTC)
They've added in passive abilites for the godswords so they act similarly to in the live game.

Prayer and summ training useless

This is so lame. I spent 60m plus on prayer and summ training (92 prayer, 77 summ atm) yet now because of the overhaul these lvls will be useless for my combat lvl. What gives.

Rune warhammer detail.png Anzu68 Rune warhammer detail.png, 20:27, June 20, 2012 (UTC)anzu68

They will still be useful skills though. Your training did not go to waste. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 21:27, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
I'm even lamer. I'm still training ha ha ha. 99 pray ehre me come!
Rune warhammer detail.png Anzu68 Rune warhammer detail.png, 08:10, August 23, 2012 (UTC)anzu68

Wikia's Stance on the rework?[edit source]

Is it just me starting to realise the HUGE amount of work that will be required to bring wikia up to scratch? Also, when will we start editing? After the combat rework, or during the beta? Will there be ways to edit pages, but not have them appear until the combat rework is done? EEK! :P

JikkirCraft 06:43, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Already have that covered. Finishing bestiary copy at the moment. Ryan PM 06:44, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
...Wikipedia? --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 21:28, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Am I the only one that's seen these?[edit source]

In the latest video, I noticed a few things. There seems to be a new Kiteshield (presumably) bearing the Bandos symbol (one of the Mods had it). Also, we're getting a few THOUSAND Hitpoints (7007 in the new video).

Anyone else notice these? 01:03, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

You are not alone. Jagex will be filling in the gaps in various sets (I hope we get dhide boots :D) and armour will now affect hitpoints to some extent. 12:01, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

Magic upgrades[edit source]

Borrowed power will be autocastable on the beta! :D Rathe confirmed it on the fourms. Omega Haxors 04:12, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Hm, I wonder. Will this make Lunars overpowered? Fletching cape.png 7Horse Talk Fletching.png 14:18, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Armour penalties?[edit source]

Will there be armour penalties in normal RuneScape like you have in Deamonheim? Like this: Melee gets penalties for Magic and Ranged; Magic gets penalties for Melee and Ranged; and Ranged gets penalties for Melee and Magic, is this a correct memory? I remember seeing a Jmod typing/saying somewhere. . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 19:58, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

I believe a JMod did confirm that armour, though not explicitly stated, still carries its innate weakness or inefficiency when defending or attacking (respectively) with a certain style. Using melee armour to cast spells will not work well, and will not defend against magic very well. However, the specific weaknesses to stab, slash, and crush seem to be gone. 21:07, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Polypore Staff's Innate Attack[edit source]

This is an issue that really needs to be addressed to the Jagex staff. Currently, the Polypore Staff's natural attack is non-existent in EOC. In other words, there's currently no way to deploy the staff's charges, yet it still has 3,000 of them stagnantly.

Jagex plans to make the Enhanced Excalibur's special attack into an ability, but I've seen no effort to implement a new ability or function to use the Polypore's charges other than all magical staves becoming two-handed weapons. The charges should be usable! Player moderator crown.pngMetallicanranaDrygore longsword.png 20:51, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

You make it sound like they did that intentionally. This is a BETA and anything and everything can be changed at anytime during the beta. If you think it's a glitch, report it! If you think it was intentional, go tell them your thoughts on THEIR forum. 21:09, July 8, 2012 (UTC)]

Dungeoneering[edit source]

So what happens to dungeoneering? Are the staves 2h or do they become 1h wands? Do the rings such as blazer and berserker still work the same? Law rune.png Samberen Nature rune.png 05:03, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well, im a dharok pure, and so far in the beta, the whole "low lp" does not make me hit any higher? Are they really going to just carelessly mess up so many people's accounts, just for this stupid rework? It just seems so stupid to me. All i do on this game is pk, and i can't stand this guildwar,WOW, pk style.

Is there a way to reset to a new beta account(starting at level 4) after you have allready imported your ingame charachter? 15:05, July 6, 2012 (UTC)Paul

Offense/Defense Values to monsters.[edit source]

All Beta monsters need at least a defensive value for training purposes. For example, someone with 50 ranged won't get good experience from Greater demons because greater demons have 59 defense. Even though the person has a combat level higher than the Greater demon.

Mrpushee (talk) 16:56, July 6, 2012 (UTC) Mrpushee

Combat beta new account[edit source]

Is there a way to reset to a new beta account(starting at level 4) after you have allready imported your ingame charachter? 19:17, July 6, 2012 (UTC)Paul

should i even continue training on beta or am i training for nothing. someone please tell me so i wont waste my time 00:16, August 18, 2012 (UTC)john

No you can't and stop wasteing your time if you are grinding xp on beta

Theslowbros (talk) 01:23, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Quests[edit source]

How do abilities work against quest bosses? Is damage capped/fully blocked? I am mainly wondering about Nomad; I am trying to decide whether or not to work at beating him (and spend the money) before the update comes out.

Gtg891x (talk) 22:16, August 20, 2012 (UTC)Gtg891x

you can't make nomad much harder and he will probably be easyer(if you DO have 99herb and cook) because you have too take in too consideration the fact that not everyone will be 99herbelore or 99 cooking at the time they try too defete him thus the best food they can use will most likely be monkfish or shark, but on the other hand i whould say just try before the beta he isn't that hard i took him on the second try. (btw i don't think the version in the beta ATM is the final version of nomad i think he will be balanced before the relese) 06:17, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

EOC release date[edit source]

Does any1 have any ideas or know when beta will finish?

Rune warhammer detail.png Anzu68 Rune warhammer detail.png, 08:13, August 23, 2012 (UTC)Anzu68

EoC Said Now To Be On Time[edit source]

To be realsed on November 20th

Why did you overwrite an existing entry? And no, the EoC is NOT on time. Its actually already been delayed by about two months (they originally said they planned to release in September). You do realize that the entries you just overwrote were a couple months old, right? RelmKisaragi (talk) 16:23, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Confirmation on expected release of EoC?[edit source]

Can anyone find a source to confirm this statement on the article?

The actual update was postponed/delayed to December, but cannot be any sooner than December, as there are currently events planned by Jagex for the month of October to November. [source needed]

I've seen the phrase (and 'source needed' template) on the article for some days, yet I can't find any sources. Logialian (talk) 09:21, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Fair point. I'm amending the article to reflect that there is no info about the EoC's release. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 09:23, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

its coming Nov.20th --Heavyoak (talk) 04:30, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah... we know this already. The last posts here were two months ago, when we did NOT know the release and people kept posting it anyway. I thought about commenting myself, but I saw no reason to because it was a news announcement on the home page. --RelmKisaragi (talk) 04:33, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Controversies[edit source]

I don't really understand why anyone would see the survey as being biased towards the EoC. I took the survey; it has plenty of options for people's opinions and certainly isn't biased. They even have an option in there for "I hate it all," which most of the players against it have constantly been saying. The only thing required is to complete the Combat Academy, which makes perfect sense to me. Their was plenty of opportunit for people to do the tutorial and take the survey. RelmKisaragi (talk) 18:57, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. The claims in that section certainly aren't cited anyway. 03:58, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
I don't know... I don't think it has to be cited if there's a lot of references to it, and I HAVE seen people say this in both the forums and on Twitter, so its not like people aren't saying this. I just don't see how it was biased at all, regardless of whether you support it or hate it. RelmKisaragi (talk) 04:06, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
I wrote the statements as I read around the official Jagex forum. Over 70% of the posts in the "EoC releases on 20 Nov" are negative. I can say it's much more than the support players, yet Jagex deduced the survey gave an "overwhelmingly positive result". (The 80% positive it claims does not fully cover comparison to old system, and Jagex used exaggreated wordings and misleading questions) It certainly makes little sense. In other major EoC posts, negative posts make up at least 40% of the population. Youtubers have expressed disappointment but Jagex does not want to hear that apparently. I later realize the portion of players simply refusing to play Combat beta at all as opposition of EoC, which further contributes to overall positive result led by the survey. Rewlf2 16:40, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
There are numerous things wrong with your statement, unfortunately. Even if you are accurate in saying "over 70% of the posts "EoC releases on 20 Nov" are negative" (which doesn't surprise me, really), that doesn't mean anything. First of all, it is a known fact that far, far more people will rant and rave about something than people who do not. This is something that cannot be argued, period. A huge number of RS players don't even use the forums. Jagex also flat-out said that there would be a survey if you took the Combat Academy; if players did not do that as "opposition" to EoC, then that was by far the stupidest move they could have done. And you're also flawed when you say "the portion of players".
That implies that everyone who does not play the Beta oppose it, which couldn't be further from the truth. The fact is that RS is not all about combat. Most players who don't play the beta simply don't care. If anything, players who oppose the EoC SHOULD be the ones going in there and playing it, then giving their two cents on it (which most do). Anyone who doesn't like it should be the first ones in there, and if they're not doing that then that's their own fault. And to be honest, I highly, highly doubt this is the case, anyway. RelmKisaragi (talk) 17:31, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
And no, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the "Controversies" section in there. In fact it should be in there, though it should be written in such a way that it doesn't sound like its taking sides. And that edit has already been made anyway. RelmKisaragi (talk) 17:33, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
Mm okay I got your point, but some arguments could be amended. I want to point out: Since we can mostly only see the portion of players who give positive or negative comments actively, and (by Murphy's Law) adverse opinions are much more widespread than supportive ones, it seems the survey "will render itself useless", since collected information is so trivial. But, why does Jagex have to push out the survey after these mess of SoF, Wilderness and some more updates? It is no doubt Jagex can bear the loss of changing the combat system. It makes up little use for the survey itself. Jagex is no child in the market, I don't assume it "finally tries" to cover up the story. Although I know it is out of box, I want to ask what's behind all these info manipulation?
I mixed up the speaking population with the major population. Truly sorry about that. And now that the survey is a different problem. Rewlf2 18:02, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your response here. I was just trying to say that the argument is flawed, which is what all the people against keep on saying. Yes, the majority of people commenting on it are speaking out negatively. It is also common knowledge that people tend to rant and rave and bash things they dislike while the people supportive of such things tend to comment once and forget about it later.
When I was working as a Parking Attendant at a music theatre for concerts, my employers were saying exactly this; if attendants like how you service them, they will tell you. If they dislike how you service them, they will go online and tell everyone. This works in pretty much any circumstances you can think off.
Obviously, this does not mean the majority support or oppose it. Its just saying that the fact that the majority of people commenting on it hate it means nothing, but when people dislike something, they will be very vocal about it.
Now, what do you mean by "info manipulation"? I'm not sure what you're asking here.
I'm not saying I'm not concerned about EoC either. I do agree with what's stated in the Controversies section about being worried that its unfinished. At the same time, I understand how business works. Obviously, Jagex is a business, they're trying to make money. They're not just going to go out and release this thing broken. I suspect that most of the issues in beta are already resolved, even though they didn't update everything in the last update, and they're just cleaning things up and preparing for it to go into the live game. I do have concerns, but they're not just going to commit financial suicide.
They also know they're got hundreds, probably thousands of players that don't like it, but they feel that the system is good for the game and they're going to try and convince these players to try the system instead of just bashing it outright. And they'll probably revert a few things later on, but at the same time there is no way to make everyone happy, and they know it. At this point, enough players like it that they feel it is good to go, then they can expand on it with new content that has been postponed because of beta (such as Player-Owned-Ports and the Kalphite King). RelmKisaragi (talk) 18:16, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

the day the game ends, the death of runescape.[edit source]

its coming, the 20th is the day the games ends. get done everything you ever wanted to do. do all the quests hat you have held off on. get that 99 that you wanted. after the 20th, none of it matters, none of it will be worth anything soon. do all that you wanted, cause the game is dead soon. sell you spec weapons, do it now while you can. soon the low alch price is all that they will be worth. Heavyoak (talk) 04:31, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

The only spec weapons worth anything are d claws and godswords. Something should be added in the game to make them a little more useful, but godswords are already insanely powerful. In any case I'll be playing still and having more fun than ever. I only have slight concerns that certain things won't be finished, and despite what people thing, Jagex aren't dumb. RelmKisaragi (talk) 04:35, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Defender vs dubble handed wepons[edit source]

Before the EoC, there was no doubt:


But now that the EoC comes will it be worth using defenders on slayer or

do you guys think it will be better to use 2 chaotics insted of a dragon defender?


2 Chaotic rapiers vs 2 Chaotic longswords?

Many peoples have wondered:

Shall i use a rapier or a cls on slayer?

And the answer is rapier.

But now that the EoC comes, will it be better to use 2 rapiers or 2 longswords?

---I just wanna make a quick point that both these questions are related to slayer. 20:15, November 12, 2012 (UTC)Robban55 b

Gaining insane exp rates[edit source]

"Training combat is significantly faster, for range you can gain 2m exp/hour with red chinchompas. For mage and melee you can gain 400k exp/hour fighting steel dragons."

Where in beta have this been tested? If all monsters now hit through your prayer, ape atoll chinning is rendered useless. (PLEASE DO NOT LIST MY IP.)

Not sure, to be honest. In fact I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Granted, in the beta training combat may have been significantly faster, but they're working to ensure that it is NOT at final release. It'll be a little better than live if using abilities, about the same as live with auto-attacks, and slightly better than live using momentum.
Also, monsters hitting through prayer isn't an issue because defenses are significantly better. Defense + Protection Prayers make it about the same, really. The only difference is you can actually take some damage. --RelmKisaragi (talk) 21:38, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Red chinchompas[edit source]

Could someone explain why the price of red chinchompas drop so quickly after release of EoC but now before? It should be tested with beta that red chinchompas are still effective but now in release the red chinchompas are not as good? 05:16, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

No idea. I think people are panic selling upon release. They weren't doing it nearly as bad before release. It might also have to do with some people actually quitting and selling everything they have, saturating the market of these items which people would normally keep. A LOT of things aren't selling right now, let alone selling for a decent price. The price of everything will stabilize as time goes on. RelmKisaragi (talk) 09:07, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
The reason is because red chinchompas used to be used to mass train ranged with monkey zombies in the ape atoll dungeon, but due to only 50% protection prayers now, this method is no longer possible. this created no demand for the chinchompas and as a result they crashed massively -Hellfirem4ge

Dungeoneering Bosses[edit source]

Well in the three dungeons I've done so far (not a huge trial but it's first-hand experience nonetheless) all three of the bosses I've faced have been level 10 (Rammernaut and two Lexicus Runewrights). This basically means they die in three or fours hits, and are obviously much easier to kill than what they should be. I'm assuming this is because of the Evolution of Combat update and Jagex's inability to give Dungeoneering bosses the correct stats, or something to do with the level scaling. Has anyone else experienced this and is it a glitch?

I've only done one dungeon so far and it seemed just as difficult as before release. I did the first Occult floor, got Gravecreeper. Last time I fought Gravecreeper (before EoC) he was slightly harder, only because it was the first time I fought him. But he really wasn't that difficult. This time it didn't seem any easier or harder, I was just more used to fighting him. The dungeon certainly didn't seem any easier or harder than before EoC's release, and the boss certainly wasn't an extremely low level. Also, notably, enemy levels only very from 4 to 220 now (and 220 is only for extremely hard end-game bosses). So if you're on low floors and have a mildly low combat level, level 10 isn't that surprising for dung bosses now. But I don't know what your combat level is, so its hard to tell. I didn't pay attention to Gravecreeper's level, but he certainly didn't die in three or four hits. (and I'm 159 combat; 109 before release). RelmKisaragi (talk) 05:16, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

The bosses seem to have increased combat levels in groups - in a group of 5 on floors in the mid- to high twenties the levels increased to about 60, though some (e.g. Rammernaut and Stomp) were still level 10. This increase may be due to there being other higher levels (180+) being present in certain dungeons however. My combat level is ~118 from memory, roughly 64 prior to the update which may be why the bosses' were so low. They were definitely a walk in the park compared to the older bosses, with fights mostly taking less than 10 seconds with the use of a spinebeam shortbow and fractite arrows at 66 Ranged.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Duffmaaan (talk).

magic cape[edit source]

Quick question:
What are the current best cape/cloak to mage in?
Is it still god capes or is it maybe skillcapes, soul wars cape, ardougne cloak, fire cape, TokHaar-Kal?
From what i can see from the stats is that the TokHaar-kal the current best cape overall only beaten in prayer by soul wars cape (+6 prayer) and ardougne cloak 4 (+4 prayer).
Is it something that i have missed or shall i mage in Tokhaar-Kal from now on?
Robban55 b (talk) 22:58, November 30, 2012 (UTC)Robban55 b

Other evolved game comparison I think[edit source]

Compare Ragnarok Online Renewal. RS EoC and RO Renewal... RO has 3rd classes, new skills, new 4th skill shortcut bar, RS has 5 new ability shortcut bars, RO and RS has XP rebalancing but although different. RS has players substantially increased LP with armors up to 9k-10k LP depending while RO will have a player with increased HP up to 100k with *Tao Gunka card*. Monster changes are although different in RO and RS. RS still has Members P2P Membership while RO still has VIP membership though. They are all different.

CarlZaros7 (talk) 22:41, January 3, 2013 (UTC)CarlZaros7

They really shouldnt have put in abilitys over specials it ruined pking and stakeing with the pure economy unless your a pure defence.04:46, January 6, 2013 (UTC)04:46, January 6, 2013 (UTC)04:46, January 6, 2013 (UTC)~HuStLeHaRdRe

Factual correction[edit source]

Dual-Wielding Magic

Under the Duel-Wielding category, it is stated that magic cannot be dual-wielded; however, this is no longer true. We need this to be updated, as to avoid any confusion

Squirrel1256 (talk) 06:32, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Any news on player-reaction/reception[edit source]

Pardon me for brining this up, but I find it ridicilous why there is not a single wording around the player-reception for the EOC, as there have been thousands of threads against the EOC and a handful in favor of the EOC. I mean it's clear that the EOC had a massive impact on the RS popularity, yet nothing about this is even mentioned at the reception content --JorisCeoen 21:13, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Because no one can properly write an unbiased section about it. MolMan 21:26, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
How's this: the Evolution of Combat has not escaped criticism, causing a number of players to quit. Neutralino (talk) 21:18, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
I don't understand why people are so strongly against eoc. It brings a nice element to the game and balances out forms of combat. Reasons I have seen against it are petty, and I'm shocked that so many people would quit the game because of godsword hilts, combat strategies and loss of "culture and tradition". EmileWillows (talk) 21:17, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I really couldn't understand it either. I still don't really understand, but at least i have an idea :3 And in that light I can see why they are so bitter about it. If you don't like change, and you're playing a game that is 'changed'/updated on a 'weekly' basis then that's not so nice to see. When they call it the year of the player and you flame and whine about it on the RSOF and people don't listen to your rants, and you see still more updates being done. Than I can see why they feel like they don't get listened to. I can see why, and I can understand why they might not see what I see... I hope you can see it too :P . . . Yours, This user admires the Void Knights. Who aim to maintain Gielinor's Equilibrium. Enquidou Talk This user likes to do Quests and genuinely loves the story line; lore is his love! . . 10:52, November 25, 2013 (UTC)
Ummm..I think you misunderstood me. I was actually only writing a short sentence that could possibly have been expanded into a section on the Evolution's reception. Personally, I love the Evolution of Combat! But many don't. Neutralino (talk) 23:56, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism[edit source]

Several of the images on this page have been vandalized. I'd correct it myself but don't know how to. Just thought I'd leave this lnotice here instead to bring it to the moderators' notice. Thanks. 11:40, June 13, 2014 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with the images on the article... IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 13:10, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Apparently this is a wikia-wide issue; not vandalism but a glitch. Nothing us normal users can do except wait for Wikia to fix it. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 13:42, June 13, 2014 (UTC)

not neutral[edit source]

this page has been written to be 100% pro-eoc. it is not neutral , as all wiki pages should be. corrections should be made and personal observations should be removed. many of the sections have been written as to discredit and cover up the opposition to eoc, as the individual who wrote them was pro-eoc. Seren symbol.pngHeavyoak Talk Zaros symbol.png 23:51, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

Label Page as Out of Date Please[edit source]

Hi, this page is very out of date, saying for example that food still heals based on the player's HP level, even though this has been untrue since the combat update in the summer. Someone please tag this page as out of date. --EvilPuggy (talk) 22:32, January 16, 2015 (UTC)