# Talk:Artisans' Workshop (historical)

This talk page is for discussing the Artisans' Workshop (historical) page.

## New

i added tivia and im kinda new so i dont know how to put the line under it like all the other trivias on this website sorry:\

## Respect

Anyone know what's the best rates so far? 09:50, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

You gain 1% respect for every 15k exp gained, apparently. So, whatever you can do for the best exp/hr will give you the best respect rate. BreakIt 10:39, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
According to http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/forums.ws?15,16,841,62517455, you get 1% every 10k exp. Also, fixing pipes and killing ancestors boosts your respect.

## wrong title

its artisan workshop, check the map

yes the unsigned person is correct! lose the 'S'.Leon Art 17:52, March 11, 2011 (UTC)
Actually, in the RS Knowledge base it is called 'Artisans Workshop', so the title is correct as it is. Dimchord 12:53, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

## Criticism

Using your ores (mined or bought) is a 100% loss of all profits. The xp rate is not that great. Making tracks is extremely tedious, and slow, and you get no profit from your smithing xp. Smelting bars of steel or silver still remains the best balance for speed and profit.

Except that gold smithing is the most efficient. 71.65.217.227 17:21, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
The activity seems to be aimed at people who are willing to just spend their money on xp, sure. But remember that this discussion page is more about the article, less about the activity itself (unless it contributes to the article). -- 22:17, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

The info is completely wrong about ceremonial swords. It is good xp if you know how to make them and you can get far more than 5 perfect swords per 100. With 91 smith I can consistantly get over 90% and get 100% 20% of the time at least.86.177.34.125 18:17, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

Infact now I get over 95% and get 100% alot of the time. I managed 3 perfect swords in a row. Once you perfect the making it can become great xp.86.177.34.125 19:06, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

The statement about which you're commenting was not RS:NPOV and has been edited away (before me). What I find inaccurate is Jagex's documentation about how much xp is awarded. I've only tried a handful of iron swords so far, but I get a maximum of 2700 xp at 100%, not 3242 xp as Jagex claims. I suspect that any major differences are first-week bugs and that their published numbers are the intended values. I'll try other metals later (maybe after the xp weekend). -- 22:03, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
I believe the table Jagex is using for the Ceremonial swords xp in comparison to regular smithing is incorrect. It states for break even preformance you need 87% completion of the sword, stating the normal xp for this amount of iron (smithing and smelting) is 2812.5. I have completed the sword at 96% only to recieve 2594 xp. It seems like they are assuming you will always have your dedudctions taken from that 120% reward you get for completing it perfectly, as even getting only 1 mistake still gets less xp than smithing and smelting would. I hope it is a bug they correct, because they are using this graph to encourage us to make these swords, when in fact not only are we losing out on any product from the ore, we are also losing out on xp. It is much faster than conventional means, but that isn't how they are marketing it.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.28.78.155 (talk) on 13:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC).
I've changed the numbers used in that table to take into account the 20% bonus. I think these numbers are better. (Of course, that's why I changed them.) As users experiment, let's see if these numbers are more accurate. I still need to do more experimentation myself. -- 21:02, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
I'm not a member at the moment, so I can't comment on the other metals, but from my results and those of other users I've chatted with, the xp received for bronze swords is based on Smithing level times five times percentage of "perfect". Perhaps this is true of the other metals, also? You might record here xp received, Smithing level, and percentage... JalYt-Mej-Wynde 16:44, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
For things that aren't bronze, others and I got numbers consistent with ${\displaystyle {xp_{max} \over 1.2}\times performance}$, for ${\displaystyle performance<1.00}$, but I don't have my data anymore. I'll try to get some new data, although I've already decided this activity/minigame/whatever is mostly a waste of resources. I'm pretty close to leveling, too, so I can see if that makes a difference. However, the ${\displaystyle 5\times level\times performance}$ expression for bronze easily doesn't apply for iron and up. -- 06:31, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
Some data for Level 84 and 85 smithing:
84 97% = 2620
84% = 2269
80% = 2161
96% = 3631
70% = 2647
63% = 2382
98% = 4448
78% = 3540
68% = 3086
n/a
85 100% = 3242
96% = 2593
97% = 3668
96% = 3631
48% = 1815
83% = 3767
64% = 2904
88% = 5040
83% = 4753
70% = 4009

So far, all of it is consistent with ${\displaystyle {xp_{max} \over 1.2}\times performance}$, for ${\displaystyle performance<1.00}$. Additionally, the xp Jagex quotes for 100% appears not to depend on level. -- 09:42, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

## Burst pipes

No npc tells us how to fix burst pipes or when they break. Can you please add a section on that?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.96.100.238 (talk) on 00:15, 12 March 2011 (UTC).

Pls sign, and... is pipes members only? I have no idea where, how and at what reasorces :P Leon Art 17:39, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

## Respect with ceremonial swords

Since you get 1% respect for every 10k exp, can anyone tell me if that's separate from the 1% respect for every 3 ceremonial swords?

Because you get 1% respect for every 3 swords you make and 1% for every 10k exp.

I'm just wondering if they are both separate in terms of getting respect.

Or is it just one and not the other? 01:10, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

According to the published FAQ, it's just 1% per 10kxp, plus burst pipes and ancestors. The editor who put 1%/3 swords was probably getting about 3kxp per sword. -- 01:05, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
Then this statement under Ceremonial swords is incorrect or misleading?
'Players receive about +1% respect for every 10k xp of swords smithed. Every 2 swords earns 1%'
- M, 19:57, july 16, 2011 (UTC)
Based on the information Jagex has released, it would only be true for people who were getting 5kxp per sword. -- 20:12, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
Ok yeah, so in the main article that statement is incorrect or misleading and should be changed? - M, 09:38, july 17, 2011 (UTC)
Done. -- 11:35, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

## sc hammers?

many people are asking if sc hammers work there. can anyone confirm whether they do or don't?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.69.87.23 (talk).

I can tell you that they don't work for ceremonial swords. 04:41, October 22, 2011 (UTC) Edited out a wrong presumption of mine. - 05:45, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
They do work for cannon repair, but not the cannon itself, only the parts of it. 06:26, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
Because the hammer only works for activities you use it with, most of the exp in repairing cannons does not require a hammer. 00:14, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

## F2P Submission

Linked F2P page to this one.

P.S. I didn't know this at first but each piece of armor only uses ONE bar and not FIVE (ex. chestplate). Make note of this because it wasn't clear when deciding if using this place was worth my time. I calculated that the experience of one iron plate body (per bar) is 37.5 xp vs 111 xp (per bar) with the armor. (3x xp given). Also, in Falador, I used to have to run from the mine to the furnace and back again to make the platebody. Now I only have to go from the mine to the workshop (2x convienence). So we now have 2*3 = 6x more efficiency in gaining experience in smithing.66.71.27.181 02:35, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

## Armor XP Table

As written "+bonus" makes it appear as though I get 101+111 xp and this is NOT the case. Numbers are probably right, I only used the iron grade I armor. This just needs to made clear. 66.71.27.181 13:21, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

## Bronze ceremonial sword accuracy %

Has anyone worked out the formula for determining accuracy percentage on ceremonial swords? I only have two samples so far, and only with bronze. I was prepared to make a preliminary guess as to the formula, but then I saw the statement in the article that forming the tip correctly was more important than any other part, which doesn't fit my data. On the other hand, the experience formula for bronze is different than for other metals, so perhaps the accuracy formula is, too.

From what I have so far, I decided that each understrike by one reduced the accuracy by 2%, and each overstrike by one reduced it by 4%. Anyone have any other data? JalYt-Mej-Wynde 18:22, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, *that* formula wasn't correct. I very quickly got a third bronze sword, after not being asked to do one in a long time. I'll summarize my results in a table at some point. Still, hasn't someone already worked out the formula? JalYt-Mej-Wynde 18:40, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
I suspect that the method to calculate performance would be the same for each metal, including bronze, and that the only thing that changes between metals is the maximum reward (which varies by level for bronze, but is fixed for the others). I also suspect that the shape of the blade affects the cost of inaccuracies. For example, a required dent of 5 for which you are off by 1 may reduce performance by less than being off by 1 for a required dent of 4. A good analysis is going to need a LOT of data, which is why probably no one has posted one yet. When Jagex says in the game guide that it's better to under-hit than over-hit, I also suspect they mean it's better to avoid breakage. I'm not certain that over-by-1 is worse than under-by-1 for the score, otherwise. Good luck with your analysis, though. -- 20:10, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
Urgh. You may well be correct on all three suspicions. All metals being scored the same doesn't help me at the moment, since bronze is all that I will be doing.... Unless it means that others post data, too. If I can show (to my satisfaction) that it is true that over-strikes by n count the same as under-strikes by n, that might simplify things.... But I am pretty confident that the formula is not so simple as I hoped (under-strike by n always penalize m%), even with just four data sets. (Four linear equations, four variables, should have been solveable.) And, worse, I failed to take a screen-shot of my most recent, so I don't have the details on that one.... And read your suggestion that an under-strike with a target of 5 might incur a different penalty than an under-strike with a target of 4 (reasonable) after I finished it. Urgh. Well, maybe Aksel will take pity on me, and ask for my help more often... JalYt-Mej-Wynde 17:11, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
I think it could be useful to remember that RuneScape is a program written by Java programmers, who probably have CompSci degrees, as opposed to frustrated quantum biochemists who were disillusioned that their chosen first profession didn't involve more double integrals over spherical coordinates. I'd try something like if ${\displaystyle x_{i}=required\ dent\ at\ position\ i}$ and ${\displaystyle {\hat {x}}_{i}=actual\ dent\ at\ position\ i}$, then
${\displaystyle performance=1-k{\sum \limits _{i}{|x_{i}-{\hat {x}}_{i}|} \over {\sum \limits _{i}x_{i}}}}$
for some ${\displaystyle k}$ (which may even be 1, and probably is), because it's so dead simple to program. An interesting experiment would be to see if not even touching the blade (${\displaystyle {\hat {x}}_{i}=0}$, for all ${\displaystyle i}$) yields a non-zero score. Maybe I'll even collect some data, but it could be a while. -- 21:30, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
Here's some "performance < 100%" data for iron (1) and steel (3). I lucked out and got the same plan for two of the steel swords.
iron plan
3 3 2 2 2 1 1 8
3 3 2 2 2 1 1 8
execution
3 3 2 2 2 1 1 7
4 3 2 2 2 1 1 7
steel plan 1 & 2
4 3 3 3 3 3 3 8
3 2 4 2 2 2 2 8
execution 1
4 3 3 3 3 4 3 8
3 2 4 2 3 2 2 8
execution 2
4 3 3 4 4 4 3 8
3 2 4 2 2 2 3 8
steel plan 3
4 4 3 3 3 3 1 8
4 4 3 3 3 3 1 8
execution
4 4 3 3 3 3 1 8
4 4 3 3 5 3 1 8
96% 1: 96%
2: 84%
96%
It's enough to see that my simple expression above is not correct. BTW, I don't think simultaneous linear equations is the correct analysis method, because the game probably rounds the performance numbers to two significant places. Therefore they contain "noise." HTH -- 09:40, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

## Exp/Hr

Burial Armor Iron ingot I Exp/Hr

Currently it takes 9 seconds per piece of armor.

This is 40k/hr @ 101 exp each. 80k/hr with sc hammers.

This is 44k/hr @ 111.1 exp each. 88k/hr with sc hammers. (10% bonus)

This is 45k/hr @ 113.1 exp each. 90k/hr with sc hammers. (Quick Learner)

This is 46k/hr @ 115.1 exp each. 92k/hr with sc hammers. (Budding Student)

Master Student is an extra 400/800(sc) exp/hr at most.

These are almost perfect rates.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.180.57.194 (talk) on 20:39, 25 April 2011 (UTC).

Yes, but I find (in f2p, anyway), that 38-40k/hr is a much more reasonable experience rate with Quick Learner and always following his orders. (I've been doing this for over 3m exp, I know my stuff =P) Djur 03:02, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be applied to all ingots and placed in the article? 50.92.70.22 05:47, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

## Can you assist?

Say i want the rune ceramonial sword v, but I don't have the smithing reqs. Can i buy the plans and get someone with the smithing lvl to assist me in making it? God vivec1 14:00, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

An easier test would be to see if the assist system works for regular workshop swords. I actually don't know if the assist system can be used or not. However, if it can't be used for regular workshop swords, it's a sure bet that it can't be used for ceremonial swords. Has anyone tried for regular workshop swords? -- 22:02, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

## Respect for burst pipes

Not sure if the respect for burst pipes is recently changed but you get now 0.075 % respect for fixing pipes and not 0.25 % as listed. Example: After 3 pipes fixed it takes 8 more ancestors to get 1% respect. - M, 01:50, july 16, 2011 (UTC)

## Burst Pipe Trigger

Burst pipes are instanced for each player, but what triggers them?

As far as I know, every time you have a ceremonial sword graded, there is a chance tht a pipe will burst. It seems that this chance is related to how much experience that sword got (i seemed to get a lot more burst pipes working with mithril than iron). Are there any other ways to trigger a burst pipe chance?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 91.125.241.212 (talk) on 02:33, 13 August 2011 (UTC).

The times are random and not tied to any other events, like completing the sword as you mention. -- 03:53, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

## Break even performance %

What does this actually mean? The note about break even performance needs to be better explained. It suggests that to "break even" compared to what you are spending on smithing xp outside of the workshop, either 1) you need to achieve eg. 53% accuracy on mithril ceremonial swords or that 2) you need to achieve a perfect sword 53% of the time. I'm guessing it's option 2, in which case means that the artisan's workshop is an incredible drain on resources. Unless you have the money or don't have the time to train smithing normally. 04:38, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

"Performance" is the rating you're given when you complete a sword. Break-even performance is the minimum performance you need to achieve to get equal or greater xp, any number of swords, including one. The only time 100% performance is necessary is for iron, because the xp for iron is crap. If you're going to smith iron, do it at the blast furnace or wear a ring of forging. Don't do it at the workshop. -- 05:26, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
Hmm ok thanks 05:43, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

## Ceremonial sword section is unclear to those who have never used the workshop.

I added the fact that you can only smith ceremonial swords from grade IV ingots to the ceremonial sword section. Perhaps someone else can eleborate that section for me because I was extremely confused as to why I need (or how I could use) 75 iron ores to smith a single iron sword. I'm sure others shared my confusion, as this section does not explain what materials (ores) are needed to smith a ceremonial sword at all. --173.185.17.236 03:52, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Top of the page says "All four of the training methods in the workshop require the use of ingots of metal, making them essential to participate in the workshop. To create ingots, use some of your ores on the smelter in the centre of the ground floor's room (noted ores work) to fill it up, then withdraw some ingots in exchange." That should pretty much explain how to make ingots. 19:14, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

## Ceremonial Swords: Chance on Typical Hit

I added a 4-step guide to smithing Ceremonial Swords, which yields very good results at the smithing level I tested it at (77). To make a more accurate guide there is research needed on how your smithing level affects the dents you hit. I'm especially interested in how often a 99 smither hits a typical hit and a max hit.Calabrium 08:44, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

I did some research myself, which supports the strategy I've added. This testing was done with 20 steel swords at 78 smithing. It would be great if someone with 99 smithing could add their numbers.

 Dent Soft Medium Hard 0 13 5,35% 9 4,59% 6 2,59% 1 227 93,42% 58 29,59% 26 11,21% 2 3 1,23% 109 55,61% 41 17,67% 3 N/A 20 10,20% 93 40,09% 4 N/A N/A 57 24,57% 5 N/A N/A 9 3,88% Total 243 196 232

Calabrium 14:09, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

I believe the type of metal makes a difference, too. For example, even someone with 99 smithing would be much more consistent (smaller deviation) with iron than with rune. -- 21:50, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

## Noted Ores

I have 300 mithril ores and 1200 coal (all noted) in my inventory and the smelter won't let me take any bars. Is there a way to fix this bug without me using un-noted ore?

Respond ASAP if you know

Thanks

24.247.108.45 21:08, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

## Apostrophe

Is it Artisans Workshop (plural), Artisans' Workshop (plural-s) or Artisan's Workstop (singular-s)? In the Daily Challenge for Mithril Ceremonial Swords the objective I had said the following:

Smith mithril ceremonial swords in the Artisan's Workshop: 12

Is this an in-game typo or is this another name valid variation?

Geotim90 (talk) 18:17, July 7, 2015 (UTC)

Not even Jagex knows: Artisans', Artisan's, Artisan, Artisans --Iiii I I I 19:34, July 7, 2015 (UTC)

## Triskelion pieces

Has anyone else received a Crystal Triskelion piece from killing the animated armours here? I received one while training but didn't get any kind of chat message about it. I'm fairly sure it came from the armour spirits but can't confirm. 01:43, December 28, 2016 (UTC)