# RuneScape talk:Grand Exchange Market Watch/Alchemy

This talk page is for discussing the RuneScape:Grand Exchange Market Watch/Alchemy page.

## Free to play Profit

Has there ever been a profitable F2P item?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.143.211.105 (talk).

Not that I know of. bad_fetustalk 13:26, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
Moment I'm speaking, theres mith platelegs and rune longsword on the list Masterbow 11:02, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

Actually I have some, but smaller in price.

Hard leather boots: Low alchemies for 80. Current Grand exchange price as of 6/2/2015 : 34g. Profit: NO LOINGER PROFITABLE 46g/item with Explorer's Ring daily free low alchemy (30 charges with ER3) Air staff: NO LOINGER PROFITABLE

Blueturtle79 (talk) 19:03, January 15, 2015 (UTC) EDIT 6/2/2015;

the price of nature rune should also be deducted from the profit. taking into account the price of nature rune at ~316 coins, these items are not profitable, and results in a loss.
also, the low alch table is automatic and items are added automatically. so no worries! 02:24, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

The items I posted above used to be profitable, but are no longer. A Jagex Admin must have seen this because between the posting date and less than a week later the low alchemy value for the boots plummeted from 400 to only 80 coins. I have lost 1.5 million due to this. Also the low alchemy value of Air staff dropped dramatically also. I have edited my previous post to reflect the current situation.

Just a friendly warning: THEY are watching you, Wiki-ers! Blueturtle79 (talk) 18:43, June 2, 2015 (UTC)

## dragon battle axe

i bought some dragon battle axes for the lowest, about 20 of them with in 30 mins. for 119600, alched for 120000.70.94.209.196 22:17, January 11, 2011 (UTC)gport 1-11-11

Recently when I go to this page for the High Alch Grand Exchange Market Watch, I cannot see anything? First there was some error, now there is a lot of random text. My friend isn't having this problem, so why I am I?

What happened to the items that were slightly unprofitable?

## Page not working?

As another poster mentioned, the page isn't showing useable content.108.48.114.108 13:35, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Seems the page needs to be Purged anytime any of the items prices change (like when you update a price of an item it asks after you hit the button), or the formula parts are out of date... Purge Page Possibly once a week? Or if someone notices the page price doesnt match the items page price by enough to matter 69.204.41.246 00:49, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Mini Experiment

20,000 + Mixed xp + gold

CraftingXP + MagicXP + Mining XP + Money

Mining Level Req 1 (40 for extra bonus)) Crafting Level Req 44 Magic Level Req 55

Items Carried Rune Pickaxe Earth Rune (x10) Nature Rune (x100)

Items Worn Brown Apron Staff of Fire Explorers Ring

Stage 1

Cabage patch teleport, Visit the Craftsmans Guild Mine clay until inventory is full use clay with sink make mining urnx2 make woodcutting urn x all fire urns in kiln use earth rune with mining urns use high alchemy spell on woodcutting urns

Stage2 (takes 3-4 mins)

Mine clay until inventory is full use clay with sink make woodcutting urn x all fire urns in kiln use high alchemy spell on woodcutting urns

9 x urn = 720 xp = 10800 per hour Crafting XP 18 clay = 90xp = 1350 + (mining full urn = 325 xp) = 1675 per hour Mining XP 9x high alch = 585 Magic xp = 8775 = Magic xp per hour 9 x 50 gold profit = 450 = 6750 gold per hour

Stage 3 (extra bonus + popular route) mine gold until inventory is full and bank (cabbage port helps) gold gives 65 mining XP

woodcutting urn is profitable even at low alc with the free explorer ring uses

Excuse me!- but you cannot use alchemy on Urns in F2P unless they are incomplete.

Blueturtle79 (talk) 19:14, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

## List of F2P items

Some one shoul make a list of just F2P items, or at least divide the P2P and F2P items apart somehow.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 108.161.24.113 (talk) on 10 December 2012.

^^^^^^^^^^THIS. I WANT A F2P LIST.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 108.85.46.31 (talk) on 25 December 2012.

F2P and P2P items are now sortable. 01:55, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

I would like to either suggest an add or to add when able another feature of this market watch which would be helpful for viewing. I like how it shows the current price, High Alchemy price and the profit - but it is missing just the percentage - easy enough to add I think.

You spend 100gp and you profit 1gp, the percentage profit is (1/100)

In that case, you make a .01 profit. or 1% profit.

I suggest that this can be very useful when determining and measuring the value of a specific item - particularly large payout items such as:

Image Item  Price High Alch Profit  Limit
[1] Polypore stick [2] 41,709 [3] 45,000 [4] 3,176 10 [5]

Percentage profit here is:

3,176/41,709 = .076

Only a 7% profit.

Compare that to

 [6] Black full helm [7] 434 [8] 823 [9] 274 100 [10] view • graph 08:35, June 16, 2013

Percentage profit here is:

274/434 = .63

A 63% profit.

As far as time/profit goes, it would take 12 (11.59)  iterations of black full helms to reach one Polypore stick profit. Which could further be refined into a useable calculator for people with very little money to start.

There are a lot of other areas in which this table can be improved -

Currently it is very basic; As long as the High Alchemy - Price is greater than or equal to 0, it's a profit.

But it can be analyzed further as to show which items provide not just the supposed "greater" profit, but which items are potentially best to work. Some items can only be bought 10/4hr period and others at 100 - with the time to cast 100 being well below 4hour period, it can be more profitable to do 100 items at a 60% profit than 10 items at only a 7% profit. Even if the profit is substantially lower. In the example above - the Polypore is easily the winner after only a short time.

You can check the item which has the highest payout after the 4hr trade limit by putting them in the same terms - multiply the profit by limit. Or by taking the percentage profit and multiplying it by the limit to recieve the percent profit per limit.

Is it possible to link this table with the top 100 most traded or to show volume? (this is something I don't know, but would be great for adding further analytics to the page)

We also have to look at the number of iterations before you are able to cycle, which is only useful for anything which the profit is less than the cost of nature runes. Obviously profit will be higher than cost of the item, but it isn't always higher than nature runes. This might not be useful to everyone - but it would be a unique and defining feature of the tables to include.

Napkinholdin (talk) 14:24, June 17, 2013 (UTC)NapkinholdinNapkinholdin (talk) 14:24, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

Some one give this guy a medal. I approve wholeheartedly.
Goirad (talk) 03:28, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestions... two columns have been added: "Profit %" and "Profit x Limit". We are looking into how we might add the volumes for top 100 most traded items... but no promises! For iterations/cycles, could you explain further or give examples on how this is calculated? 00:51, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
It appears that instead of displaying profit times limit, that column shows high alch times limit.
Goirad (talk) 02:41, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out... 03:49, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
First off - You have no clue how excited I was when I checked the website and saw those changes!! :D :D And to think that you might add volumes! (Would make it so much easier to just grab items fast, instead of trying for a dshield half)
I also just noticed something- maximum number of High Alchemy Casts in an hour is 1200, and in four hours ( cap reset time) it's 4800. Might could include a second equation inside Profit*limit to include Profit*4800 for items that can be bought in a volume greater than 4800. Or however, it just feels important to note that the onyx bolts, while the best item - cannot be done as fast as Royal D'hide. Onyx Bolts would then be only 254400.
As far as the iterations and cycles - I realized after a minute of mathing around that if you have profit, you can create a sustained cycle with just one item.
What I was trying to figure out was how many you have to burn through before you would have enough to purchase two items at once.
The idea was that we give a character one nature rune, a fire staff and x-coins.
Lets say Item A costs 1gp
Nature rune costs 115gp
High-Alchemy on Item A produces 116. Profit of 1gp.
He can do this indefinitely, provided the price stays the same -
And in this case, he would have to cast the spell 116 times in order to buy 2 items at the same time.
The equation would be (High-Alchemy/Profit) - rounding up.
Alternatively you can use the (equation 100/profit%) - rounding up. to tell you how many items you need to produce, in order to purchase one.
This can be useful - but I don't think it's particularly helpful unless you wanted to purchase an item but not spend money on it.
For instance - Say you want this bad boy:
 Item Cost High-Alchemy Profit Profit% Limit Profit*Limit [11] Dragon dagger [12] 17,180 [13] 18,000 [14] 705 4.1% 10 [15] 7,050
BUT! you only have enough to buy one and you don't want to be left without any money after buying one. You'd have to make how many in order to keep your money AND the dagger?
(18000/705) = 25.
100/4.1 = 25.
After making 25 of these, you can have your dagger and eat it too.
Napkinholdin (talk) 09:20, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Love to make suggestions and since this is technically part of "update the table" I think it would be extremely helpful to have a way to type a price for an item, as it's not always the same as what we are purchasing at.
Maybe even two buttons for +5% or -5%, or the ability to type in a custom price just to see what that item would do in comparison to the rest. I know that borders on a the lines of a calculator vs a table.. but all a calculator is - is a glorified table :)
For instance: Draggon dagger might be hard to buy at the price, so I want to close my profit to 500gp. Is it still comprable to buy at that price?
Perhaps, at that point, it wouldn't be bad to include a small calculator at the top or bottom of the page (probably top, harder to scroll down :P )
Sorry if this doesn't quite fit. I'm just looking for ways to simplify the whole profit experience :)
Thanks again!!
Napkinholdin (talk) 09:33, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Whoa, little error going on with the decimals and profit percent!!
It's supposed to be profit/investment ...
Somehow it's getting multiplied by 100.
76.97.223.143 00:10, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

resetting indent...

@76.97.223.143:
I don't get what you're trying to say. Isn't it supposed to be a percentage? 00:24, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
@Napkinholdin:
I've added the cap of 4800. The column is now called "Max profit" for lack of a better term.
Thanks for the explanation for the iterations/cycles. I really want to add that, but the table is quite long/wide. As you said, it might not that useful... we may consider add this if more users find this particular info useful...
As for custom prices, I don't think it is feasible to add input boxes for all items for comparison purposes. But for a single item, it might be doable. You might want ask JS-experts such as User:Cåm‎ or User:Joeytje50‎ for help. 00:28, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, it looks great - except this is what's happening on the table:
mage Item  Price High Alch Profit  Profit %  Limit Max profit  Members Details Last updated
[16] Bolas [17] 58 [18] 300 [19] 126 217.24% 50 [20] 6,300 [21]
I think the price of the rune is included in the Profit but it isn't included in the calcualtion of the Profit%. My fault there.
The price is the cost of the item by itself. Profit is calculated based on the (Price + Nature) So when you divide the profit over price, you are getting an incorrect profit amount. Totally my fault.
To calculate the Profit% it should be: Profit/(Price+Nature)
Example using Bolas: (ROI is Profit %, so you can use that, Return On Investment)
ROI = 126/(58+116)
ROI = 126/174
ROI = .72 (notice, no percent sign yet)
We can then make this easier to read by multiplying both sides by changing to percent.
ROI = 72% (no need to do any "math" to both sides, since .72 =72%)
This should greatly influence our Max Profit calculation. In the above pasted item, it should read 72% OR .72. but NOT 72 or .72%
Also, we are getting some negative numbers in the profit area, not sure why.
76.97.223.143 22:01, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
The ROI/Profit% has been adjusted. Max profit is not affected, since max profit = profit × minimum(4800, limit); not based on ROI.
I myself noticed the negative numbers in the profit column a few days ago, but the bug seems to have resolved itself... 01:26, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
"Volume" has been added. However only 2 items have volumes! 05:09, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Adding all these extra columns is making the table really wide. Would it be possible for a user to hide certain columns that they don't care about? 59.101.5.109 23:03, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
Due to the un-usefulness of the "Volume" column (only 1-4 out of the many profitable items actually had volume data), the column has been removed. The "Coins" images has also been removed to reduce the width of the table, as the images did not add much to the table. 09:05, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I think right now the chart is wonderfully helpful but I want to make the best possible use of my time, so while having the ROI and max profit columns are helpful in determining what I should buy, it's a little bit of a guessing game (or just time spent doing calculations) as to what I should be getting. So I'm wondering a couple things: when I look at the source, the whole chart is just "Profitable High Alchemy" (in double braces). Is it possible for me to access and copy it, or, if useful enough, could my idea can be added to this one? I am thinking of adding a column that combines ROI with the buy limit to create a sort of "desirability" variable, so I know what makes me money but also doesn't make me take forever making that money. 74.229.178.150 08:16, July 26, 2014 (UTC)
Added the "ROI × Limit" column. Hope it helps! p.s. The source is in Template:ExchangeItem/HighAlchTable (and the entire table with the header is in Template:Profitable High Alchemy). 01:14, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks ! It helps... sort of. I didn't actually think about what the numbers meant, ROI x limit is actually pretty unhelpful. I'll work on thinking of an algorithm and then come back. EDIT: Okay, I was working around with a bell curve centered around 1200 (max high alchs per hour) and tried to modify that to be a little less harsh, since the buy limit amounts are fairly spread out (from 1 to 25000). Obviously 25000 is very far away from 1200, so its modifier is going to be harsh (as well it should be, that's almost a day's worth of alchs in one buy, versus closer values to alch speed). So here's what I'm thinking: instead of roi (since that has to do with % gained, and I'm only concerned with net gain), my new formula is: ${\displaystyle profit*e^{\frac {-(limit-1200)^{2}}{640000}}}$ or in plaintext: "profit * e ^ ( - ( limit - 1200 ) ^ 2 / 640000 )". With this new formula, notable modifiers are approximately: 50: 0.127 100: 0.151, 500: 0.465, and 25000: very small. I was considering making the limit expression logarithmic so that bolts would at least be on the chart, but the other chart columns still exist if someone wants to see profit regardless of time.74.229.178.150 05:03, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

┌───────────────────────┘
So... for dragon kiteshield, the value would roughly be 632.169. What do call this new column? 15:55, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

Right... That's right, but I suppose I didn't weight enough against smaller limits. I modified it a little bit): dragon kiteshield should now be: 3.322, compared to rune halberd: 248.293, red d'hide shield: 86.944, rune c'bow (u): 117.377, and finally onyx bolts: 0. And it is at this point I realize that I'm just looking for best profit/h and am way overcomplicating it and having way too much fun in the process. Sorry! So the new column should be Profit/Hour (replacing ROI x limit), and the function should be like ${\displaystyle profit*min(1200,limit)}$. Nothing super fancy here, which will probably be a lot less stressful for rebuilding the table. The expression would yield 118800 for onyx bolts. I tried writing out the function as best I could (check the source) but checking the template for the columns there are things that I don't know what they do so not going to break the page. Sorry again, and thank you a lot for helping me! 74.229.178.150 03:54, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
Replaced the "ROI × Limit" column with "Profit/hour". The values are similar to "Max profit" except when the limits are higher. 23:07, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
And.... wait for it.... the column was removed due to it being redundant with "Max profit". Next time, please do your own calculations to see if its helpful before requesting any updates to this page... lol. 04:29, August 3, 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry. I removed it since I realized that 4800 is just 4 hours' worth of high alchs; I didn't make the connection until you'd already added it in. I also added that in there, because it was never explained where 4800 comes from. 74.229.178.150 01:58, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

## WARNING!!!

Just warning you. Dont try to alch any set of bolts. i just alched away 10M lol. good luck  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.230.95.54 (talk) on 22:57, September 23, 2013.

me too i lost 100b  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 31.14.15.92 (talk) on 02:00, August 7, 2014 (UTC).

## Non-Alchable items?

What's up with porthole and other non-alch items being on the list as 6,000 gp? Is there omething I'm missing?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.199.240.61 (talk) on 11:38, May 5, 2015 (UTC).

They used to be alchable, but they aren't anymore. Due to an oversight this was not fixed; it is now. Thanks for reporting this. 12:33, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

## Poor representation

For a calculator of popular/profitable items this calculator is all over the place. Most of the items featured have no logical reason for being alched - especially items with a buy limit of 2 and rare/clue reward items. Am I the only one feeling like this calculator makes little sense for those looking to find good items to high alch? - LDemonl (talk) 04:21, June 3, 2015 (UTC)

Why aren't they on? They are 2045 ge price, and high alch for 3000.

75.151.85.97 16:16, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

GP/Hour Column

There should be a Profit/Hour column. Base this off of 1080 high alch casts per hour*Profit column. Would be the most efficient way to search for items to alch. If you search by top profit, you end with something that has a buy limit of 5000 items or more, thats at least 5 hours of high alchs and the gp/hr might be lower than something with a max buy of 500.

## No cost of nature runes with explorer's ring Alchemy

== No cost of nature runes with explorer's ring Alchemy == --Dictator525 (talk) 17:45, March 5, 2017 (UTC) Could additional lists be made which ignore the cost of Nature runes? They are not needed when you use the Explorer's ring for example. Such a list for Low Level Alchemy would contain entries: I guess the current one does not because there are no profitable items when including the cost of Nature runes. As also mentioned in [[22]], the Magic experience via LLA might be important enough for someone to do this. I tried to make such a list myself, but could not manage to adapt the template...

## Alchemiser mk. II

Would it be possible to do a version of this page for the auto alcher machines (or at least the MK.II) that came with batch 2?

## Mystic Shield

Mystic Shield no longer profitable, high alch is only 9k gp

PrettyRuner (talk) 22:16, May 14, 2018 (UTC)

It still shows the incorrect value of 12k, is this because of the switchover or is there a bug in the program? I don't hae the technical know-how to check it myself (if I can even find the program that is).
The Green Butterfly (talk) 13:47, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up, I've fixed it. 13:57, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

## Broken in switchover.

Oof, this did not translate well to the new wiki.

I would try fixing it, but I have no idea what I am doing - in the meantime I've removed the 'refresh api' link that linked to the wikia page.

Michael7050` (talk) 19:52, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

## Mobile scripting

The columns can't be reordered in my mobile. Anyone else having this problem? THAT 1 CH00B (talk) 23:48, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Seems to be an issue with MediaWiki software, not specifically a RS Wiki issue unfortunately. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/amjmpa/what_qol_changes_would_you_like_to_see_on_the/efmibzu/ 19:43, 3 February 2019 (UTC)