Forum:Words, not pictures

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Forums: Yew Grove > Words, not pictures
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This thread was archived on 28 May 2010 by Calebchiam.

I don't know how or when this started, and that isn't all that important anyway. What is important is always doing our best to make this site the best information resource for our readers. With that, I have begun changing all the little skillclickpics into the actual words they represent. Before you get angry and think horrible names at me, take a minute to consider a couple points.

Some people do much better at reading words than trying to interpret what a little picture stands for. Yes, they can certainly hover over it or just think about it for a minute. But if we are doing that, we are not being as helpful as we can be. Why make someone go and hover and wait for the word to pop up when we can just use the word to start with? And realize that many people do not log on to RuneScape or the wiki for a couple of hours a day, but instead just a couple hours a week. They will take even longer to figure out the pic then I do. Seriously, it isn't much of an issue for me anymore, but I realized if it slowed me down, then it is more than likely slowing down hundreds of others (since we have I don't know how many umpteen thousands of user). We have to consider the casual and new beginners to RuneScape, not just those of us with thousands of hours of play time. I like the pics, but they aren't as helpful or useful.--Degenret01 21:12, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Oppose idea, Solution - Checking your contribs from the past few minutes, it appears you are referring to the skill clickpics in quest descriptions. I don't really see this as a problem, though I see your point entirely. A better solution may be to include the clickpic and the skill name as it includes both ideas and will help new users associate the symbols with the names. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 21:20, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Thats how it started. Then someone went around deleting all the words.--Degenret01 21:25, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
Well go undelete them lol 21:28, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
And to see the problem, think of the new and inexperienced user. It isn't a problem for people with thousands of hours of game time, generally.--Degenret01 21:27, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
Then only on "noob" quests maybe? 21:28, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
If we have the clickpic and the name, I don't see any problem whatsoever. This is a wiki, if somebody removes good information (or names after clickpics), add it back. That kind of thing is going to happen every day no matter what we do. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 21:31, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
No, it isn't a problem to fix it, this here is about making sure everyone gets it to avoid revert and edit wars. I added the words to Shattered Heart and it was removed twice by two different people..--Degenret01 21:35, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
I don't really see what that has to do with the discussion. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 21:43, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
If you fail to see how it relates after I illustrated the point above, then I can't help you, anyone else will see it just fine.--Degenret01 22:20, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
We can assume the reason they added the images back is because they liked them. If we have the images and the words, I doubt they will will be as upset (though what they did was wrong never the less). Should having the image and the words become the status quo, I also don't see many people going around changing it back (maintaining the status quo may have also been why they changed it in the first place). If somebody does not understand one of your comments, you may want to consider going in greater depth. I could see how you might have been making a connection, but it was not all there yet. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 22:26, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
I added the words to Shattered Heart. I left the pics. The words were deleted. I added the words. The words were deleted. Now I am here on the YG so people know what I am about. If this is still not clear, then I really don't know what to tell you. But if we have the words, then the pics are pointless. We don't repeat sentences, so repeating a word with its pic would be the same thing. Looks nice, but poitless.--Degenret01 23:15, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
Yes lets avoid edit wars but if they are nescceary, engage in them 21:48, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
I don't like your idea but like Stelercus'. I think it is a better idea to add than to replace, but that's just me Bulbear4444 23:08, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

The pics are fairly pointless if we have the word. Do we put a pic of the Ammy of Glory in every article where it is mentioned? Or any other item? Sorry, it simply serves no purpose. And as a wiki we have a purpose.--Degenret01 23:15, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

There are some things on the wiki we do simply because it looks nice. We add class="wikitable" to tables simply because it looks nice, though it does not pose many advantages that cannot be achieved using regular tables. I think the clickpics next to the words (shown below at the time of writing) looks professional and should be kept if not for that reason alone. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:38, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
I also think that there are other reasons, apart from aesthetics. Images are more easily recognised by most people, so for those who are fairly familiar with the icons, it may help them to recognise which skill instantaneously. Don't tell me that it takes 0.8 seconds more to read the word, as it takes about that long to hover over the skillpic and see the pop up text. Chicken7 >talk 13:33, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I believe that is fine in quest descriptions...maybe have both image and name. But in templates and stuff I think it should stay as picture. (Such as the templates many people have on their userpage, like mine). HaloTalk 23:17, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

On a userpage it can be however one wants it, that is ones own choice. But what templates do you mean? Can you list any?--Degenret01 23:19, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
I take that back, I believe that template is only used on userpages. I was under the impression it was used on a few skill pages, but I can't find any. In that case I think this is fine. HaloTalk 23:23, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - While personally I prefer words, I think in this case we need to use pictures for aesthetic reasons. The pictures of skills are clearly associated with them, since the skill names don't appear in-game under your skills tab unless you hover hour mouse over them. Using pictures ensures that all the numbers are lined up neatly, something that will not occur if we use skill names of differing lengths.

For example:

  • Mining 99
  • Dungeoneering 99

vs.

The pictures just make it look nicer. --LiquidTalk 23:21, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

That's why I said both:

Something like that. HaloTalk 23:25, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I'm behind the idea (I always have to bump up things that help accessibility for people that use mouseless browsing like me!) but think there are some aesthetic problems with what I saw in a quick look at one of your edits. The spacing, how it lines up, etc doesn't sit quite right. Can we maybe work out a template for skill/level, do the replacements you're doing to that, and then tweak the template after? That way you can keep doing what you're doing but we can fix how it looks afterward without mass re-edits. Endasil (Talk) @  00:10, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I have practically no knowledge of how to make a template do what your suggesting, but the idea of keeping things neat and lined up I am all for. So should I stop until we have a template? I wasn't going to do all of them tonight, I was just going to do so many a day.--Degenret01 00:19, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
I personally would make a template and replace all instances of the skill requirement stuff your replacing with the template so that we can easily change them all at once depending on the outcome of this thread. I know how to do this, if you would like me to. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 00:27, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
That would be great. We don't need a lot of discussion to make an improvement. There are some places where the icon I have added back is not a skillclick pic, just the icon. But we can fix those after if needed. --Degenret01 00:45, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
I will get working on it tomorrow afternoon if I have time. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 02:01, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but, a picture is worth a thousand words. Fruit.Smoothie 01:50, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

I came really close, but rendered it irrelevant or forgot to. Probably the first one. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 02:01, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Only images - Seriously, just click on them to see what skill they are. Big deal. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 20:56, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Support Words with Images - I think that works well, it's a win win.

Bonziiznob Talk

02:34, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I don't care if we have only words, or words and pictures, but we absolutely need to have words. I was just thinking of this today when I went to look on Calculators/Potions. I get herbs from Miscellania and would like to raise an herblore level, so what pots can I make with the herbs I get? Well, who knows? The page has no herb names, so you can't use your browser's find feature to look for "avantoe" to see all the pots that use avantoe. I feel like this renders the page almost useless, because you shouldn't have to hover over every image just to see what herb is needed for that pot. The site is about usability, and I think that some of the ways we've used picture instead of words really ruins some useful pages and tools. Christine 02:51, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Stelercus finished the template for me (Thanks Stelercus!) which will display the icon then the word, I'll start using it pretty quick. Christine pointed out how bad the potions page is, so I am guessing there could be tons of other places also that need to be adjusted. I will be fixing the potion page first, without the pictures of herbs and seconds. Every herb is a different shade of green and I bet there are't 3 people who can tell all herbs bu their colours, so that was even less helpful than skill icons, seriously. As for secondary ingredients, some of them are a bit similar, and more are just flat out hard to identify by the pic alone. I had no clue what the bulb of garlic was for instance. So I will make the seconds also into the words. This is one page where I see absolutely no benefit at all of having pics. Add them in later if you like, but I'm making that page useful.--Degenret01 04:21, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Note I did leave the pics for the secondaries after all.--Degenret01 06:03, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support words+pics - Per all. It'll greatly improve usability. Chicken7 >talk 10:55, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support both words and pictures' - Per Chicken, It's useful for everyone.   Swizz Talk   Events!   13:19, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support both words and pictures for certain things - I don't think that having skill names will help, since the skill icons are ubiquitous, universally recognized, and clearly distinct from one another. However, for things like herbs, where half of them differ only in shades of green, words are necessary to preclude confusion. --LiquidTalk 17:52, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Words (with or without pics) - I, for one, typically edit on my phone now. With that said, 90% of the pictures are far too small for me to see without pinchzooming just to see the picture. Having the text makes it infinitely easier to read, on the android browser at least. The pictures make the page more aesthetically pleasing on a normal sized monitor, but the words are vital for those who aren't always on a normal monitor. Karlis (talk) (contribs) 22:33, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support pictures and words - Where appropriate, to find out if it is just use common sense. Ajraddatz Talk 22:55, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support both images and words - More user friendly, especially to new users. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 06:54, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Support both images and words - Per all. They're great for both the reader and the visualizer. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:37, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Request for closure - We has a consensus, it looks like. Ajraddatz Talk 19:45, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Where besides quest guides and herb pages?

So far I have done finished one page on potions as mentioned above, and am slowly working my way alphabetically through the quest list (have finished up to the e's so far). I can scan around and such but if others already know of specific page that could use this, list them here or on my talk page.--Degenret01 10:48, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Known to be in need

  • Quest guides
  • List of quests
  • Check any potion making pages.

Closed - In such cases, we will be using both words and images in articles. C.ChiamTalk 09:43, May 28, 2010 (UTC)