Forum:Wiki in-game items and cosmetics
Hi everyone. Because we have established a closer partnership with Jagex as a result of leaving Wikia, we're discussing in-game integration with them, including being able to perhaps link your RuneScape account to your wiki account. If this happens, there could be some kind of "fun" item that you could receive by linking your account relating to the wiki, such as a cosmetic override wiki shield or wiki hat or something like that. Obviously, we already have a title, so I'd be interested to know whether a cosmetic item for linking accounts is something that people would actually want (in addition to) and if so, what would your suggestions be? Nothing is guaranteed (and we might not even want it), but I think it'd be a good idea to discuss what people actually want here before we suggest anything to Jagex. JaydenKieran (talk) 12:51, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- I don't think it's too unreasonable to have the discussions in the same thread. We're only brainstorming ideas, nothing is concrete enough at the moment to require consensus for a specific item or another. JaydenKieran (talk) 12:58, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Relaying my thoughts from discord - We shouldn't mix the Wiki with RuneScape. They should be two completely different things where people want to edit IF they want to edit for the sake of helping other people. That's the whole basis of our wiki and why we're so successful: we get random people editing whenever they see mistakes or they want to help other people and add something no one else knew about. By adding the title and incentivising people to edit via in-game means (bonds, cosmetics, whatever), loses that spirit. People will just edit for gameplay advantages only - they couldn't give a shit about how the wiki operates or what its purpose really is.
- If there's no cosmetics, linking accounts would be purely so that you can login to your wiki account using your RuneScape account. JaydenKieran (talk) 13:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- Again, this item/cosmetic/whatever has never been intended to be gained only after editing, literally just for having an account on the wiki (and thus not really an incentive to edit). Regardless, I don't think incentivising people to edit is necessarily bad - you can't force outsiders to edit & help us, and the people who want to edit for fun will do it anyway. Sure, incentivising may just encourage low-quality spam edits, but it can also introduce people who make higher-quality edits to wiki editing who wouldn't have otherwise tried it 13:22, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- Don't have time for a full response, so here's also my thoughts from Discord:
- I think this is a very shortsighted way of looking at this. Hearing from Balance last year that that might be a possibility was probably the single happiest moment from that first day with Jagex -- because it literally just solves our editor problem. This has been the biggest issue with the wiki for the last 7 years -- there just aren't enough people around to edit. Basically every community oriented thing we've done (including the events team) was designed with an eye towards integrating otherwise unaffiliated people, into our community. To be clear, I see this as quite possibly the single biggest positive thing we can do to increase our secondary editing community. None of what you're saying is at all convincing to me that we should abandon that. ʞooɔ 16:08, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment - Given the long argument in the secret admin chats I'm not allowed to tell you exist, if anything does happen, this item should be solely for having an account linked. We already have the wikian title for people who actually do things. Also I like my wiki kiteshield suggestion. 13:03, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment - Only if it’s a fork and knife dual wield melee override. Talk 13:05, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment - Bucket (override) filled with Weird Gloop as a mh/oh override for all styles, for 2H just give us a non-combat-usable Ana in a barrel with weird gloop instead of Ana. Clue Scrolls | Tumeken (talk) 13:10, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- I have a problem with this. I'm not sure the average person who hasn't yet edited, the people we're kind of gearing this towards, would appreciate the reference - Buckets and barrels are brown, and although it makes for a really nice site theme, I doubt they would be desirable cosmetic items. I'm all for wiki inside jokes, but I don't think we should be taking them to such an extremity. -- 14:16, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
- I disagree, make the cosmetic as stupid as possible. Make it so stupid that the stupidity overflows and it wraps around and becomes amazing and desirable. Like a Bucket of weird gloop pet that is literally just the existing weird gloop model completely unchanged. It inexplicably hops around and attacks. 15:32, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
my thoughts/support - ok so i have thoughts, let me gather them and i'll try not to spew them out in a jumbled mess
First off, this initial suggestion was always (as far as i'm aware) meant to be something comparable to the twitching orb pet, a purely cosmetic item available to anyone who connects (if possible) their wiki account to in-game account. Potentially have tiers (although I'm sure that'd be a heated topic, much like the title - personally I don't care for tiers), or just examine it to see wiki username, and/or editcount etc (I like this, although again can see it being a heated topic).
This is different from the title in that there are *no requirements* (besides having an account on the wiki obviously), so I don't agree with those saying "but we have the title already why do we need something else!!!!!!!!" - I don't see why people would be so abhorrently opposed to having a fun cosmetic item lol (this is a video game site, it's a hobby, we do it for fun, this is a fun thing, not a status symbol, blahblah)
If this *did* get us new editors then great, however it's not really the purpose of the item (as far as I'm aware, but if it was then I wouldn't care either way), as it's not a 'reward for editing' (instead a 'hey cool, you have an account on the new wiki! have this fun thing').
Ideas that have been tossed around so far include: wowee pet, weird gloop bucket hat (?), weird gloop hand item (whack people with it like rubber chicken?)(gloop particles?), wiki kite (lol), graduation gown thing, weird gloop animation/teleport (however I feel that the thing would just be a static item because less work etc)
13:15, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Some cosmetic - it's nae the first time RuneScape have awarded ingame items fer third party activity (see also: Twitching orb). Give people the cosmetic fer linking their accounts. I think it'd be fun if the cosmetic upgraded based on edit count (similar to how grotesque armour works) but I doubt that'd be a good idea Ciphrius Kane (talk) 13:21, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Okay with something that everyone gets for linking an account, strong oppose making it upgrade with edits - I think something like the twitching orb where the only requirement is to have an account is fine. I strongly oppose tying its appearance or upgrading it based on edit count. Did we forget Forum:Achievements extension discussion for the achievements system which gave people shiny badges for editing more? Was such a disaster we ended it early. --LiquidTalk 13:57, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think you're making an incorrect assumption that it would be tied directly to your editcount. ʞooɔ 16:08, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
SUPPORT - I think this could help us gain new editors, as many people are still unaware that we moved hosts. Anything that brings people here instead of there is a good thing. Link accounts, get override, Wiki wins. Too easy. (this also implies the object has to be somewhat kinda cool or neat or w/e word is used nowadays, to make people want it). Degenret01 (talk)
Support - A cosmetic item for linking accounts seems like a good idea, encourages wiki awareness and stuff while still allowing the wikian title to encourage positive contributions. As for what the cosmetic should be, I think we can all agree it has has to be bukkit and/or weird gloop themed, there are no other valid options. How about bukkit of weird gloop companion pet? It would hop around, form hands of gloop to attack with melee and throw gloop at enemies for ranged attacks. Its death animation is falling over and the poor gloop being spilled everywhere.
Or we could go with something that's super low effort for Jagex, like as Ethan suggested, a version of bucket (override) that just replaces the empty bucket model with the weird gloop model. 15:22, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Soft oppose - Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be a neat idea in theory, but in practice I don't foresee this working. Some players already hate the wiki due to blind fansite favoritism on their part (people already have said it's asskissing towards Jagex), and would be saying "WELL WHERE'S THE COSMETIC AND TITLE FOR TIP.IT AND RUNEHQ WE DIDN'T GET ONE REEEEEEEE". I know I've seen some discussion on an unrelated Discord server about vandalizing the wiki as a "revenge" to their fan project not getting as much attention as the wiki.
I don't want that. I don't want people feeling like they need to be petty just because some fansite (that isn't really a fansite) got something ingame just for linking the wiki with your game account. I say if we really do go through with this, require 2FA for it to work, at the very least. Also, if it does go through, I'm all for a pet, myself. Stinkowing (talk) 15:24, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- Do we really care what the other fansites think about this? It feels like they spend more time complaining about us these days than they do actually, you know, making content. ʞooɔ 16:08, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment/Soft support - If this goes though, I would like a pet like the Twitching orb, as in it displays edits (though that might lead to unnecessary edits/vandalism), or a cosmetic (Weird gloop override anyone?). Srylius (talk) 16:01, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Soft support/comment - Yeah sure why not. Wasn't exactly campaigning for this but would be cool to have. That said I'm hoping that its something thats, while relevant to the wiki, isnt so identifiable that it can be seen like a badge (eg the title). So I'm opposed to an item with the WIKI emblazoned on it. I do like Clue's weird gloop bucket idea.23:55, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Soft Support - I am not opposed to some kind of cosmetic for linking accounts. As a few have already said, I don't think it should have anything to do with editing/number of edits. (Although I kind of like the idea of a pet or something that shows edit count similar to twitching orb, I think (a) pets are annoying and we don't need more and (b) we have the Wikian title for editors, this should be just for anyone who is a user of the wiki). Also, some kind of in-game item to incentivize people to use this wiki has to be a positive in the long run, right?04:10, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment - I think it's unfair to limit this discussion to just being a reward for linking your RS and wiki accounts. A silly/fun cosmetic that is easily available for linking accounts could promote awareness about us moving for people who read the wiki; if it becomes widely used in-game players would wonder how to get it and end up finding out about the fork. Having as many users as possible switch over from wikia to our wikis is really important right now.
However there is a lot more potential with the idea of in-game items and cosmetics than this. In our initial talks with Jagex I was really excited for the possibility of having something that could incentivise new people to start editing. We have a great community here, but it is a small one. We simply don't enough editors to tackle larger projects and really make the wiki the best it could be, and that's something that's only going to get worse as currently active editors move on and get lives (whatever that is like). I feel like expanding the amount of active editors here is really important for the future of the wiki. Over the past while, we've gained a whole series of editing guides, a big to-do list and the Wikian title as things to help encourage people to edit, but I don't feel like there's been a large increase in people editing regularly and these tasks being completed.
I'm open to any suggestion that can help us get new editors, and I thinking that adding more incentives for editing is something we should seriously consider. I'm aware that this isn't really how we've done things in the past; as pretty much everyone here now edits just because they love contributing to the wiki. But just because someone is drawn in by (or even simply realises that they can and are wanted to edit because of) a shiny reward being offered, it doesn't mean that they're going to be a terrible member of the community (and if they are then I'm confident that we can block them or whatever).
Currently we have the title, but that rewards people after a relatively short amount of editing experience and doesn't really encourage them to stick around. Personally I would also like to see:
- Something to encourage people to continue editing/edit more regularly aimed at editors beyond the title. I actually think an "upgradeable" cosmetic with differing appearances based on how much someone has contributed would be good here. The issue if we can come up with a way to get at the quality of edits that people are making rather than just basing it off edit count; which I do agree would lead to problems with people making a large number of poor quality edits to increase their edit count.
- Something to encourage people to contribute to specific projects. An idea that we discussed was having an active project where people contributing to the project would receive a consumable reward like a bond. Again we would need a way to verify who has made constructive edits. Another consideration would be how to decide what projects should be focused on through a consensus system. I'd just love to see the ever growing project list tackled :P
(Both in addition to a silly thing just for linking accounts)
I also think that in addition to discussing this here that we should actually try and find out what non-editors think of these ideas. The concept of people disliking the wikis because we are able to give people cool stuff for contributing does bother me; I like to think it's a vocal minority but really we are just speculating and I'd like to know for sure. Assuming that most players would not take that view, I think gauging what our intended future editors would think is both acceptable and motivating for us to offer as incentives for editing. Maybe we can reddit poll or something.21:32, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Support - A cosmetic to get for just linking your RS and Wiki accounts would be nice, e.g. like the twitching orb pet. I feel that adding your editcount might attract people who will make poor edits just to increase their count, but on the other hand it would be nice to show one's edit count, while personally I would rather my edit count. :P I also do see merit in Isobel's idea to have an "upgradeable" cosmetic, but that would require some way to check if the editor's edits were of good quality or not. And I'm not sure if we could automate that process and doing it manually would cost a lot of time. :/ 18:27, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment - Seeing as we don't have an OAuth extension currently installed based on the current version of the MediaWiki installation, are we going to be implementing Extension:OAuth or one that is OAuth 2? OAuth2 extensions don't seem fully stable, at least those on the main MediaWiki site being that they are in a status of "beta". This is something I haven't seen talked about much since integration with the game might be more work than re-skinning an existing asset for us than setting up OAuth.
Under the assumption linking works properly, the project should have an incentive to move people from the former site to this location as well as editing the articles here. It would be something very minute like the previously mentioned Twitch pet. If an object is implemented that contains the existing File:Wiki.png, would we want to ever change it in the future? Just something that makes me want to avoid having a logo in-game. In the event we do obtain a cosmetic, a neck worn item would be nice since the game has relatively few items in that slot (re-skin of one of the Gameblast ones), an aura like the snowverload snowstormer or an off-hand book with pen in/on spine as an override like the Manticore book, Demonflesh book or Necrofelinomicon. - Ryan PM 07:35, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment - Wikian Book pet. That's all I gotta add.19:52, 14 October 2018 (UTC)