Forum:Wiki Market

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Forums: Yew Grove > Wiki Market
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This thread was archived on 29 April 2009 by Azliq7.

I was planning to introduce a project page ([[RuneScape:Market]]) based on the idea of players advertising merchandise in the Grand Exchange. The first draft of the Project page as follows.   az talk   05:16, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wiki Market is a place where users may advertise their Grand Exchange items for sale.

Usefulness

The market can be useful for:

  • Trading large quantities of merchandise (which may take a long time to buy/sell)
  • Trading slow-selling merchandise (i.e. Fletching items)
  • Junk trading
  • Preserving space in the Grand Exchange interface (especially for free players)

How this works

  • Users may post an advert for an item under "Buy offers" or "Sell offers".
  • For items worth 50,000 coins or more, the "High-value items" section may be used.
  • Once an item has been advertised, other users may contact the user in their talk page to agree on the price.
  • The actual trade is conducted in-game at a time agreed upon by both parties.
  • When the deal has been finalised, the advert must be removed for this page.

Example

In the following example, User #2 may sell 2,000 Unstrung maple shieldbows to User #1.

Buy offers

Skill Item Amount Total value User Date/Time
Fletching Maple shieldbow (u) 5,000 1,500,000 User #1 (In-game user #1) 16:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Mining Iron ore 10,000 4,190,000 User #3 (In-game user #3) 00:30, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Sell offers

Skill Item Amount Total value User Date/Time
Fletching Maple shieldbow (u) 2,000 600,000 User #2 (In-game user #2) 12:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

High-value items

Item Buy/sell Price User Date/Time
Third age platebody Sell 248,311,925 User #4 (In-game user #4) 18:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Criteria

  • The amount of the advertised item must exceed 1,000, with the exception of high-value items.
  • High-value items must be worth 50,000 coins or more.
  • Only users with valid in-game usernames may post.

Offers

Buy offers

Skill Item Amount Total value User Date/Time

Sell offers

Skill Item Amount Total value User Date/Time

High-value items

Item Buy/sell Price User Date/Time


Comment - I could be wrong, but I think they did this before and then they abolished it. I saw it somewhere in the yew groves before.Santa hat.png Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 05:18, 12 April 2009 (UTC) comment to comment - if this is the case a little bit of research should find the case where it was opted for removal. regardless consensus is allowed to change, many things have changed during my hiatus. i'm still getting the hang of the new yew grove format, i knew there was a push for it, and i see some good and some not as good qualities, but that's besides the point.

Where are the old Yew grove archives kept? I think i have pretty much figured out the new version of archives (although there appears to be a need to decide when is clearly a good time to archive a thread). ~kytti khat 05:50, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
http://runescape.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Yew_Grove_Archives&t=20090312193812 Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 06:13, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I don't see any real use for it. We have user pages and forums, can't users advertise there? We are an encyclopaedia not a marketplace.Joe Click Here for Awesomeness15:23, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment, support and suggestion - I see plenty of use for it. The forums do not allow marketing ("8. No advertising/marketing. Do that on Your userpage." source). And as for userpages, how many times do you visit other users pages solely to look for "buying"/"selling" sections, and how many users would get around to visiting your userpage and want to buy/sell what you're selling/buying? This page would centralise these activities and enable users to buy/sell items fairly quickly (quicker than they may be able to sell it themselves). Although "we are an encyclopaedia not a marketplace", we are about a game with a developed, balanced trading system. Surely we should allow uses to trade easily via this site? Else the may leave for other fansites which allow such advertising easily? For this reason I support this.
May I make a suggestion - that there be two buying/selling areas: one for bulk offers (like there is already), and one for smaller amounts of higher-value items - for example, I imagine selling a third age platebody to be excruciatingly difficult, so being able to advertise it on a page such as this would be useful (however you wouldn't be able to with the current setup as you don't have 1000 of them to sell). I guess a good definition of high-value would be worth 50,000 coins each or more (open to discussion), possibly with exceptions (like things being bought at trade limit regardless of price, etc).
Added.   az talk   04:29, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
The final point I would like to raise is: in the "User" column of the table(s), should the user's in-game name also be listed (in parenthesis, (maybe with a hiscores link?)). (Oh, and sorry my post turned out this huge, I didn't expect it to.) Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Added.   az talk   04:29, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Question - I have never been a big user of the RSwikia forums, but may I enquire why there is no trading allowed on the forums? They seem like the ideal place in which to do so. I tend to lean toward keeping trading and the like separate from the encyclopaedic wiki side of things. It'd be best if the type of content that makes into any of our namespaces (minus User/talk etc) is directly related to the continued documentation of the RS game. Dechaineux Talk 02:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment - This page is located in the RuneScape namespace mainly because it is separate from the encyclopaedic content of this wiki. (We don't see any encyclopaedic content in RuneScape namespace at all.) The namespace is there for the wiki community and for projects developed by wikians (RuneScape:WikiGuild, RS:IM, etc.) The main reason I came with this idea was to create a centralised place for advertising. As Gaz said, there is no place in the game or in the wiki where players could do this. Think of this page as being the "Classified Ads" that you would find in newspaper. People don't advertise "Cars for sale" at their doorstep, do they?

As to why trading is not allowed in the forums, I am not sure.   az talk   04:29, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I guess what I was trying to get across is that pages such as the Yew Grove and RS:IM are related to the encyclopaedic side of things. In the Yew grove we (generally) discuss issues that relate to the content/running of the wiki, while your other example, the Image maintenance page, is directly related to looking after the images that we use within articles. The Wikiguild itself is designed to group users together to collaborate on a writing project (or similar).
I'm not saying we should get rid of these pages, which are in some way are all linked to the content of the mainspace/image space etc., I'm just saying that the RuneScape namespace should be used for things that link directly with some aspect of the encyclopaedia. Maybe we can amend the rules of the forums and create a place in which people can advertise their items there. Dechaineux Talk 06:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Ignore all rules, Dechaineux... Just because we are a wiki, it does not mean we have to be strictly encyclopaedic in nature. Maybe I used the wrong examples. How are these pages related to encyclopaedic side of the wiki?

These are some of the community-based (non-encyclopaedic). My point is: Let's try this out, and see where it goes. If it is unpopular, we can just disable the page later on. I just don't see what could go wrong if we implemented this here, rather than changing the rules in the forums.

If we allowed people to advertise in the forums, I worry that the ads will go unnoticed. (I rarely go there myself.) This could be the main reason why advertising was unsuccessful in the RuneScape Forums.   az talk   11:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

We could create a new space as it were, maybe WikiMarket? Like WikiMarket:Melee Items/Rune/ScimitarJoe Click Here for Awesomeness10:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Nah. The point is to centralise things. Creating a namespace for this would be too messy, and difficult to manage.   az talk   11:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Support - This is a pretty interesting idea. Personally, I believe I would find this Wiki Market to be rather useful as I buy/sell items on the Grand Exchange often. Sounds like it would work, so why not give it a go? C.ChiamTalk 12:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Support - Interesting, and would (as said above) save many players space in their bank area. Also, you can reach out to a lot of people here, without the message getting put off by the chat box. ~MuzTalk 13:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Support - I think we should try it out and see how it goes.  Tien  13:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Slight Support - Didn'y we abolish it last time beacuse a lot of people just came here to sell/buy, and nothing else? Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 17:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support - I don't see how this could do anything but strengthen the wiki. In terms of other people coming by just to buy/sell items, you might be surprised when those players start to poke around at the rest of the site and see what all we are doing. For myself, I think of this as a recruiting tool to at least bring more readers for what we create (and I know there are far more people who just read the content of this site than those who edit). --Robert Horning 15:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support - If we keep all the buying selling in one place then it stays neat and orderly. I'd rather buy and sell to wikians in need. --Degenret01 03:52, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Support - Sounds like a good idea. I'd be open to see how it works.

Bonziiznob Talk

05:02, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Support - Listing your trade requests on your userpage has always been an insanely ineffective way to do it. Something like this would: one, make it easier to trade amongst community members, and two, give give another feature to community members. I see no reason not to have something like this. If it ends up failing, we can remove it then. But for now, we should at least try it.

Also, along with what Doc said, we could get the problem that many people simply create accounts to do trading on our site, and do nothing else. Now, if they end up becoming legitimate community members, that's just fine, but if they only made their account to do trading, then that could be a nuisance. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!I have 12 friends. 23:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I think this wouldn't work for two reasons. Firstly there is the purely technical - the GE doesn't work like that, it could match up a buyer with a seller on completely different worlds, especially if someone else amongst the millions of other players in the world already had an offer in place. I think transactions would very rarely actually be between people who had pre-agreed them on the wiki or anywhere else - after all, why not just meet up and trade directly? That being the case, it is completely unnecessary - just leave your offers in place on the GE (adjusting them where necessary to reflect price fluctuations) and the system will match them up with someone else. It is not necessary to advertise offers you have on the GE, not even in public chat when you're stood right next to it! Maintaining pages on the wiki for this would be a lot of work for very little (if any) benefit. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 03:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't work as a method of advertising your GE trades (or at least I hope not); its a method of facilitating direct trades. For those that very rarely do any trading via the GE, yeah, maybe its better for them to just dump their items on there and leave it. For those who often use all their slots, having a few choked up by very slow selling items is a pain (especially for free players with only 2 slots). Its easier to put those items that sell very slowly (either things like willow and maple (u) bows or very high value items like third age armour and rares) on a page such as this to conserve GE slots for more useful items. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 09:37, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
@Leevclarke: "maintaining pages" - There would only be one page to maintain.. this one.   az talk   17:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
That was my understanding from reading the suggestion as posted, but maybe that was not the intention, or in either case it could be adjusted as appropriate. If you want to advertise things for sale (e.g. to get around the price limits imposed by the GE) there is a marketplace on the RuneScape Forums, where users will have far more potential customers. I guess this idea might be useful for people who only want to trade with other wikians, but in my experience it's hard enough to sell without restricting the customer base in this way. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 17:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Please feel free to edit/adjust this page accordingly. I wanted a page for advertising things that rarely sell, since my GE interface is always full... even with 6 spaces. I can't imagine being a free player with only 2 spaces. The problem with RuneScape Forums is that: most of the time I'm unable to contact the buyer/seller (offline), or the person has already made the trade. Having this page will save time searching the forums for the right buyer/seller, and will always provide the means to contact the person through their talk page.   az talk   17:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment This is a suggestion, but would this perhaps be better suited at the RuneScape Businesses Wiki? Just a thought, because we want to specialise in things like this. Mr. Garrison 10:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Mr. Garrison, a separate wiki would be more appropriate, just like we have a separate wiki for clans. Administrator Hurston (T # C) 12:26, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I know there were objections to this, but the number of people in favour of this idea was greater than those not in favour. =)

I've decided to go ahead and create the page ([[RuneScape:Market]]). It's still experimental at the moment, but hopefully we can fix any problems we might encounter later. Let's hope this works.   az talk   10:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

RuneScape Wiki is not a democracy. Butterman62 (talk) 17:12, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Simply quoting that policy doesn't help.
Disputes on Wikipedia are settled by editing and discussion, not voting. Discussion should aim towards building a consensus. Consensus is a group discussion where everyone's opinions are heard and understood, and a solution is created that respects those opinions. Consensus is not what everyone agrees to, nor is it the preference of the majority. Consensus results in the best solution that the group can achieve at the time. Remember, the root of "consensus" is "consent". This means that even if parties disagree, there is still overall consent to move forward in order to settle the issue. This requires co-operation among editors with different interests and opinions.
Wikipedia:Wikipedia:What is consensus?

The decision of creating the page was made not by counting the votes, but by evaluating the arguments made by the community. Many had argued that we should at least try this out, and if this idea does not work, we could simply disable the page by protecting the page.

Being new to this community and consensus-building, I might have misunderstood the meaning of consensus. Please tell me where I had gone wrong, instead of simply quoting the policy that many are familiar with...   az talk   18:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry for not making myself clear. Per RSWiki's version of the policy, "Decisions should never be made simply on the basis of majority vote". You said, "I know there were objections to this, but the number of people in favour of this idea was greater than those not in favour". That alone is not consensus. Butterman62 (talk) 18:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Okay.. That was terribly written, and I take that back. Was there consensus to at least try it out? I was under the impression that there was.   az talk   18:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I actually don't think consensus is needed to get a testing of this started. Az is planning on creating a single project page, and some people are interested. I think the phrase be bold applies here. We don't want to get in the habit of having to request YG consensus to create a single page. That would slow things down too often. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 19:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

If this is going to be a "trial", there should atleast be a time limit on it to ensure that the market does not fall into the nether region that lies between project and proposal.--

Helm of neitiznot (charged).png Azaz129 Crystal shield.png Talk Edits Contribs

17:28, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Oppose The Runescape website has already supplied us with three ways of trading: Forums, in game trading, and the Grand Exchange. We don't need another here on the wiki. All it is doing is wasting more space.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sirf1shal0t (talk).

There is a general misconception that this page is meant for general trading. It is not. It is a centralised place for users to display items they want to buy/sell. None of three ways you mentioned has this feature.   az talk   07:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

strong support what about us that are not mems but need uncommon items and what if no is buying/selling the item you are buying/selling i have encountered such things with crafting items http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4888/megaf.png Legaking http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6200/runelongsword.png 19:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment - The item limit has been reduced to 100, as some users have pointed out that the limit of 1000 might be too high.   az talk   07:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I personally like the area very much, but I think we should make the item requirements a little more clear as far as where items are valuable enough to not require a limit of 100 items; perhaps a value of 10k+ coins? 25k+? Even 100k+? --Beware the underrated. Pikaandpi Berserker Fury!Hit hard or go home. 14:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Closed - For further discussions, ideas and feedback, please use RuneScape talk:Market. Thanks.   az talk   07:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)