Forum:Why Jagex doesn't like us

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This thread was archived on 18 December 2009 by Robert Horning.

While this may be considered "privileged" information, this is at least a response from Jagex that helps to explain why we aren't listed.

Man, I don't know why this has to be so secretive, but I'm going to post it here for the edification of the community. I don't care about the so-called rules on this matter, as I see absolutely nothing of a confidential nature related to this content (besides, I warned Mod Hohbein that I would do exactly this beforehand anyway):

We haven't been able to recognise this fansite because, currently, there are a large number of competitor adverts on the website at all times. To quote from the front page of the Fansite Info thread:

- Is careful not to display, and where necessary removes RWT, rule breaking or competitor advertising

Until a fansite does all it can to remove such adverts from its website, then I'm afraid there's no way we can add them to the recognised fansite list.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Many thanks,
Mod Hohbein
RuneScape Community Management

Again, why doesn't he just say this on the thread, I can't say. We have been trying to make progress on this issue, and I think this is the final word on this topic unless we can convince Jagex to see that we as a community are not responsible for the advertisements.

We are careful about competitor advertising, but I can understand why Jagex is upset. Heck, we as a community are upset over a number of the advertisements that have shown up recently and are trying to do what we can as a community to stop this sort of practice in the future. I don't know how to convince Jagex that the problems they, themselves faced in regards to advertising on their own webpages is something we are having do deal with... and having the added difficulties of dealing with an extra layer of bureaucracy in terms of getting those advertisements removed.

I know Wikia is trying to work with us, and realizing that Wikia has to at least pay for the network bandwidth and other issues associated with the technical maintenance of this website including server and storage costs. We are in between the proverbial rock and a hard place here on this issue.

I'll leave this as fodder, and I'll try to also encourage the members of this community to back off from Jagex for the next little while. We don't need any more bad blood between us and Jagex for the moment, but it is something that we certainly should be bringing up to the attention of Wikia and noting that the advertisements have been getting out of hand and is now adversely impacting Wikia's revenue as a major source of participants to this wiki is effectively shut down for now. Perhaps with something like an advertisement equivalent of the Counter-Vandalism Unit that sets up an express hotlink of mis-behaving advertisements and other sorts of formal programs to fight the problem issues could be developed. I don't know what else we can do here.

The ball is now back in our court in terms of what we want to do next. We can ignore Jagex and continue on our merry own way... continuing to grow and develop without any support from Jagex. So be it. Or we can also try to tackle this serious issue of competitor advertisements and more specifically the RWT websites that do pop up from time to time that are also unwanted by members of our community. I'll leave this in the very capable hands of our wiki community to decide on what course of action we want to take from this point forward, but I hope that we can be united on whatever kind of action or inaction we wish to follow from here. I do want to bury the hatchet with Jagex, at least so far as any further bad blood between us and them. --Robert Horning 03:39, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

I must admit that I facepalmed when he said "I hope that clarifies the matter", as if telling us exactly what was the matter would not clarify the matter... but that's beside the point. I say we don't do a thing. Demanding that we don't advertise competitors is just unbelievable to me. I think its a terribly egotistical thing to ask for. Couple that with the fact that they were adamantly silent for months, I begin to doubt if its even worth the effort to try to appease them. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 03:51, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Considering that this Wiki is about all things related to RuneScape and is quite popular among RuneScape players, I say we need to try to conform to Jagex's standards so that we can finally be given our well-deserved recognition as an official fansite. Not only would this allow us to discuss the Wiki in-game without fear of breaking the Advertising Websites rule, but it would bring in more visitors to the Wiki and would increase the RuneScape player-community's awareness of the Wiki. That's just my opinion on the matter, though. What's y'alls? --JalYt-Xil-BicycleCat user | talk | sandbox 04:12, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Trying to remove competitor advertising would be difficult if not impossible in my opinion. What is Wikia supposed to advertise on our site? It's a gaming Wiki, they are going to advertise games. I agree that we should not have RWT or rule-breaking sites, but other games!?! cmon. In my opinion that an unrealistic thing for us to ask of Wikia, our hosts, providers of servers and bandwidth. I say we kindly let Jagex know that we will fight RWT and rule breaking ads tooth and nail, but cant realistically ask our host to stop advertising other games. If they don't recognize us because of that, oh well. We can't bite the hand that feeds us (Wikia). Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 04:43, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Finally we get something. I agree with BicycleCat. I think Wikia is going waaay too far with the ads. They are now taking over the page. If you look at the main page when you click on the link, less then 40% of the window is the actual main page. Now we can see these commercials are affecting the communities. But, there isn't much we can do, and demanding them to do something is not appropriate I believe. Pointing a staff member, maybe Sannse, to this discussion would be good. Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 05:39, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
In terms of competitor advertising.... I see a great many competitors (particularly Evony, but others as well) that advertise on the Jagex web pages as well.... including on the F2P client interface. Heck, I've even seen RWT websites advertise on the Jagex pages. Yes, I know that Jagex would like to have fansites be advertising free and have those sites be 100% advertising for Jagex (which is what they really end up becoming), but we have to be somewhat realistic in realizing that any on-line advertisements that are found on a video game website will have advertisements about video games and "competitors" to whatever that website will have. There still is no mention why the Fun Orb Wikia is mentioned explicitly, but the RuneScape Wikia is not. The irony there to me is overwhelming. I suppose Jagex has a shortage of Fun Orb websites to choose from, so they listed the Fun Orb Wikia due to the absence of other potential websites. --Robert Horning 09:15, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

How did the FunOrb wiki overcome this problem?? Do they just not get the opposition's ads since they are not an MMORPG?? Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 09:08, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

There is no realistic way of getting rid of competitor advertising. It's how wikia pays the bills. So yea, we need to accept that Jagex won't ever white-list us, and focus on issues we can change. Were still the best damn site IMO. If we continue to link exchange with other fansites we can still see the growth that we are hoping for and need to keep the community going. As long as Jagex doesn't blindside us by telling other fansites not to link exchanges with non-approved sites, we will be okay. I'll keep my fingers crossed and knock on some wood.--Degenret01 09:30, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

I think its childish of Jagex to demand to no competitor advertising. But whatever, if they don't want to link with us, so be it. We can still be the best fansite without them.

Just a thought: maybe ask some wikia staff for their thoughts on removing competitor ads? They may be able to change them with completely unrelated adds (car insurance, supermarkets, etc) that other (acknowledged) fansites have. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 11:20, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

How about we just ask wikia to display irrelevant ads instead of removing competing ones? Like, instead of those stupid ads for lame RPGs things like car insurance and other crap? — Enigma 14:26, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't believe we got stopped by something like that... I mean, RuneHQ is partner, and have you seen their site? The guides are horribly oppinionated(If that's a word) and are very outdated. In addition to that, every time I visit, there's some ad that says "Are you a newbie" or "Are you making millions a day" or "We can tell you how to make millions a day!" It's just ridiculous. --

Water Wave icon.png
Captain Sciz
TalkEditsHiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

14:31, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

I think we should do everything we can to have the ads removed, but we can't do things that we can't (obviously OMG!). If there is no other possibility, we should consider stopping the attempts to be "partners" with Jagex, or at least for some time. I have used several fansites (runetips, runehq, zybez) and this is definitely one of the best, if not the best. I just hope they will realise this. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 16:00, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

I think the pertinent phrase may be "and where necessary removes such advertisements." They know we as a community will never be able to act in a timely manner on this, and they know that we are not Wikia. --Constitution cape.png csoursTalkIdeas Quest point cape.png 20:22, October 28, 2009 (UTC)


Cont

Wikia has many other ads they could be doing, and I don't think it will kill them to change them. The reason that we get game ads is because this wiki is classified under wikia gaming. I would have already requested this myself, but I am not totally sure I alone have the right to do that. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 18:31, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

You know what? Jagex is such a popular company that some competitor ads for games nobody even plays wouldn't make a dent in their profits. So why do they have such a big stick up their ass about this? If this is what they want from us, I say fuck them. While I agree the ads are out of control (although I never see them thanks to AdBlock Plus ^_^), this is a flat-out terrible reason to keep us off the list of rejected fansites, and we should be judged by how the community is and how our articles are instead of what our ads are for. Slayer helmet.png 19:27, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - There is "no way" they can add us to the list?" Bleh.  Tien  20:11, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - It's not going to happen. Wikia is free to us because of the ads. We need to begin to realize that if the reason we are denied is due to the ads, we are not going to become a recognized fansite. They are not going to change their source of funding for the site because we don't want it.

Bonziiznob Talk

20:27, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Effin' hypocrites, I saw WoW ads plastered all over their main page a few dozen times. But oh well. I do agree with Bonzi, we've survived without them, we'll do just as fine as we have all those years without their support. We can still try, but we can't do anything about the ads. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 21:52, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

They're only human when it comes to advert control [(I've seen a pornographic ad once...)], but they apparently expect fansites to be super-human. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!I have 12 friends. 23:45, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Commment - This only confirms what we already knew. Ads are the problem, but we already are doing our best to solve it. If Jagex had seen all of the community discussions and conversations with Wikia staff that we've had............. Andrew talk 23:11, October 28, 2009 (UTC)


*starts a rant thread on the RS forums* — Enigma 02:13, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I'm not sure if we can do much about this. Being officially recognized is good, but it's against Wikia's interests to remove ads that are highly relevant to the content of the wiki (e.g. games). I wouldn't be surprised if most of this wiki's clickthroughs are to ads about other RPGs. --Quarenon  Talk 02:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Clarification? Jagex needs to stop shaking in their +2 boots. As per above, why should we be barred from the same damn adverts they show on their own site(s)? While the adverts on RuneScape or FunOrb are there for a short bit, often reoccurring, ours are sometimes static. As for complying, if we ask Wikia to change the ad's, we might as well ask for rent as I cannot see how Wikia will provide different adverts without doing something we did not foresee. And even if we did change our ad's, how long would Jagex take to send another one-liner about what's wrong with us? My point is, what the hell are we going to do for another few months waiting for the latter reply, if any? Ryan PM 03:18, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I agree with Elijah on this one. We have little control over what ads we receive, and as several people have pointed out, it's quite hypocritical of them. OK, if that's their problem, they can shove their fansite list right up their greedy lil' asses. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  05:08, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I presume that the message was sent to Robert's inbox which can be replied to, meaning that now we can directly contact Jagex if the need arises. We can use this link to directly contest their advertising rule and/or ask for more detail on the kind of ads Jagex don't want, completely bypassing the need to use the dodgy fansite thread. Instead of just admitting defeat and telling Jagex to go eff themselves, wouldn't it be better to go and challenge their decision?? It seems better to try something (anything) then just sulk. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 07:11, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Support evil - I agree with most people here. But I like Evil's idea to challenge their decision. Let's tell them that we see RWT ads on their website. That the FunOrb Wiki gets nearly the same ads as us. That we are doing everything we can by all these discussions and contact with Wikia. And that we do not support the other games or RWT. Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 07:31, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Weak support Evil - Ehhhh, OK. But if we get more of that irritating "we can't tell you blah dee blah this, blah dee blah that", I don't want to associate with them. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  09:38, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

We have passed that barrier where they just follow protocol when talking to us. Since they have taken the time once to send a personal message to Robert, hopefully they will be willing to do it again. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 10:04, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Comment I am glad that Jagex has now specified the real crux of their issue vis a vis the wiki as compared with other fan sites. However, whilst I would like to see our site amongst their whitelist of approved sites, I would like to say again that we do not need Jagex's endorsement. This site has seen consistent advancement in terms of quantity and quality of editors over a period of years without Jagex giving us the thumbs up, and we can still be the best damn fan site out there, just as a labour of love. Search in Google for the word "RuneScape", and this wiki is the sixth site returned, and the number ONE fan site. Anyone who's interested will find us with no problems, and we should stop obsessing/fawning over this. Your time on the wiki is better spent improving an article than going over the same stupid arguments again, especially as the important RS:NPOV policy may be compromised if there is pressure on us to pander to Jagex's whims. We must welcome :Category:Players who dislike Jagex|players who dislike Jagex as much as anyone else, and be true to ourselves first and foremost. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 14:33, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

We're actually the only fansite to appear on the first page of Google results for runescape. Win to us. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 15:35, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
Heh, several times Jagex have said things along the lines of "we're constantly on the lookout for gold farming sites and may take legal action, etc etc." Clearly they're not looking hard enough, as there are at least four gold farming sites on the first page the Google result for Runescape. Fail, Jagex. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  05:36, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
I'm probably more critical of Jagex than most people, but I don't think its entirely their fault that those sites are up there. I'm sure you remember that a large majority of gold farming sites are in countries besides England, so the English government can't do a whole lot to enforce English copyright laws. I'm sure there's a way but its probably way slower than you'd imagine. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 05:56, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
Just because we don't need Jagex's approval to survive doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to gain it. Being on the list of approved sites has many upsides without any downsides, such allowing you to direct people to pages on the wiki or giving us the chance to ask Jagex questions. A person would have to be very self-centred to completely base their argument for why they don't think that we should be approved on that they personally don't like how Jagex run the game. It seems better to leave personal bias out of decision making. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 09:48, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, Gaz, what I see is different. The first two links I get are to the official RuneScape site followed by Wikipedia's article, Tip.It, us, the official Grand Exchange Database, an RWIT site, a TehNoobShow video, the official RuneScape forums, and finally Zybez. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!I have 12 friends. 21:29, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
You can look at the glass as if it's half empty or you can look at the glass as if it's half full. We are on the first page of all the thousands of search results. Andrew talk 21:31, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
I was just making it apparent that our placement in the search differs from person to person—wasn't trying to be a downer. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!I have 12 friends. 23:02, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - This is just a random thought on the topic, but I'd be curious if Wikia made a direct plea to Jagex if that might make a difference. Of course, getting an e-mail address and engaging in more direct contact between say Sannse and Mod Hohbein may be difficult at best. In all honesty, this is two groups talking past each other, and not really "getting" our community. I don't know if any official contact from Wikia would make a difference, and it should be noted that Wikia policy is to let the community itself set editorial policies that don't get into legal messes like DMCA take-down requests. We, as a community who are involved in setting the editorial policies, don't have control over advertising and I'm not entirely sure what Mod Hohbein thinks we could do here to change the kinds of advertising he is complaining about. If it is the advertising that is causing concerns, perhaps involving Wikia more directly here is a better approach to take right now. I still don't know what Wikia could do to make a difference even if this happened, but perhaps Wikia could explain the advertising situation with a bit more authority on the topic. --Robert Horning 08:17, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Question - Why does Jagex want to advertise our wikifest if they won't recognize us as a fansite?  Tien  16:30, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I was going to ask that. Good question. http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 17:46, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
They advertise any community event they hear of whether its an approved fan-site or not. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 17:50, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Comment I just wanted to make a point that needs stating explicitly, because I'm not sure that everyone has considered it. It is possible that Jagex is not telling the whole truth when they say that the barrier is the ads (over which we, the community, have no real control). Maybe our neutral point of view policy (for example) is putting them off, because it's really a policy that is specifically against kissing Jagex's corporate arse unconditionally, and as a consequence we have many :Category:Players who dislike Jagex|players who dislike Jagex. Maybe they just don't want to admit that they will only endorse fan sites who basically support them, but they can't dictate our policies (nor should they ever be in a position where they can). If that is the case, then they are using the ads on our site as an excuse, and changing them would be a wasted effort on our part and Wikia's. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 16:23, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think they're that bad. Would they honestly not like us just because of our NPOV? However, you do have a point: it is possible. I think this isn't the reason, but if it is, they should just say it. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 18:13, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be reasonable to seek some sort of formal policy that we reject RWT advertisement on this site, and blatantly offensive advertisements such as the Evony ones that the community has also largely objected to, and to have a system in place to cull these advertisements as well. We could set up an advertiser equivalent to the CVU, as an example. As for competitor ads... Jagex either has to accept us as-is or reject us. I don't even see logic or rationale for telling us we can't have any competitor advertisements... and noting that the other "approved" sites also seem to have similar ads.
In terms of Jagex being so shallow and thin skinned as to not accept reasonable criticism, or that we have members of this community that don't want to bow down to the wishes of Jagex in all or even any matter... I'd have to tell Jagex to grow up. We do discuss scams in a manner that would get a block on the RSOF here, and also discuss bugs, glitches, and weaknesses of the game as well. None of that should change, and if this is something Jagex doesn't like... fine. I don't care. I would suspect that Qeltar's Truthscape website would have similar kinds of problems in terms of getting recognition. I certainly don't want to sacrifice editorial independence for the little bit of help that would come from official recognition.
If it is a small matter that they have legitimate concerns over, I say we give Jagex the benefit of the doubt and try to smooth things over. That seems reasonable and I'm willing to listen about legitimate complaints that involve aspects of this website that aren't core functions of this community. --Robert Horning 22:17, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Jagex have alot of nerve telling us we need to fix up our ads, when as said above, I have seen advertisements for one of their largest competitors, World of Warcraft. Even so, that is one of the stupidest reasons not to support our site I've heard, the people who provide our servers need to make money just as they do, they can't be selfish like that. RSW gives some of the best RuneScape help, if not the best help, and not adding us because of some advertisements (which remember, will be ANYWHERE you go on the internet, including runescape.com) is just ridiculous. If Jagex somehow thinks we're gonna be superhuman and not advertise GAMES on a GAMING website, they're terribly mistaken. I find it funny how RuneHQ is plastered with gold farming ads and whatnot, yet Jagex can't get over a few WoW and Evony ads? They must not have thought this through:

Wikia is kind of a quiet, remote place. When I first started playing video games, I would go to CheatPlanet or CheatCC for cheats, hints, tips, etc. Since I started playing RuneScape, the RS Wiki is the first wiki I've ever seen tbh, not counting Wikipedia. Now think about it:

If I came to the RuneScape Wiki looking for info on RuneScape, don't you think the only people coming to the RuneScape Wiki would be RuneScape players? RuneScape players come here for RuneScape help, not to browse the site for their favorite gaming advertisements. 99% of the people here couldn't care less about the advertisements, we're here for RuneScape, not to wander around looking for a new MMO to play. I wish Jagex would realise that. No matter where you go, you'll see MMO ads, and they'll just have to get over it. We've been better than fine without them for so long, we shouldn't have to try so hard to get their attention. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 02:15, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

GUISE The whole reason why we arn't on the list is because Mod Hohbein is just an asshole. FunOrb Wiki, who display the exact same ads as us, were in fact added to the list by a different mod, the one in charge of FunOrb trusted sites list (I can't remember his name). All we have to do is talk some sense into Mod Hohbein... if that will ever happen. — Enigma 05:37, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

If this is how we're going to act then I think we're done here. Let me know when you meet up with your maturity again. Of course the FO Wiki was added to the list by a different J-Mod. It's a wiki about FUNORB so naturally a FUNORB J-Mod would be the one to recognize them. This wiki is about RUNESCAPE so naturally we need a RUNESCAPE J-Mod to recognize us, and Mod Hohbein is in charge of overseeing fansites. If I were Jagex and I were watching this discussion and saw the comment you just made, Enigma, I would seriously reconsider why I ever bothered to tell the RS Wiki why they aren't recognized in the first place. Andrew talk 06:01, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Seriously, Enigma. You didn't have to go and call Mod Hohbein an asshole. C.ChiamTalk 06:03, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
If we have to "talk some sense" into a j-mod to get them to add us, there's no point in even being added. That's like trying to force a girl to love you. Holding a gun to her head won't make her love you, it will only make her say it. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 06:36, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
We are trying to "convince" them, not force them. There is a big difference between the two. I really do wonder what you are trying to achieve by saying things like that Lil diriz and Enigma... Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 06:40, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Evil, my point is against Enigma's, and it agrees with Andrew and Caleb. My point is that if we have to go as far as to "talk some sense into them", well then that's not even a friendly relationship and there's no point in even trying. If we want to be accepted, we're not gonna get in by yelling at them. We have to work things out. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 06:46, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
I'm even agreeing with you, Evil >_> We can't force them is what I'm trying to say. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 06:47, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I get it now. Sorry for misinterpreting your message. I thought that you were trying to say that we would never be able to be friendly to them since we are debating with them. Completely my mistake. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 06:52, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Why, that's alright Smile Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 06:53, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Surely ONE Jagex moderator (even if he had some kind of vendetta against this wiki) could not decide the entire company's policy on this issue, or even the community involvement division. I doubt he would be so unprofessional or stupid anyway, and I am sure he does not need us to "talk some sense into" him. Frankly, Enigma, I find your position here to be inflammatory and totally unconstructive. Maybe Jagex is being straight with us over the ads, and maybe not... Either way, wasting time on such hostility does not achieve anything, and may even undo any headway that may have been made up until now. My opinion? This issue may have become too heated for reasonable discussion right now, so put it on the back burner (again), and just concentrate on making the wiki as good as it can be. We can review this question again later. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 14:56, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Motion to close discussion - since we've discussed all that can really be discussed. Andrew talk 23:28, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... I'm not sure it should be closed yet, because the community has so far just thrown around stuff. It hasn't actually decided a course of action, whether that be to petition Wikia, do nothing, etc. Butterman62 (talk) 23:50, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
There is no action we can take, this a perfect example of spinning our wheels to no avail, it distracts and can not accomplish anything. That is why we keep closing the discussions.--Degenret01 00:15, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

I've been waiting to see one week go by with no discussion so it can be closed. Since there isn't a proposal or anything really.--Degenret01 00:15, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

It went 6 days :s Andrew talk 03:57, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
It was more of announcement that was destined to spark disagreement Lol Anyway, although I see issues we need to tend to, like whether we shall contact Wikia, I am unsure if this will ever reach consensus... Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 06:11, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
There have been some proposals that have been suggested in this thread (such as a CVU-like project for advertisements and a suggestion to get Wikia to directly contact Jagex on behalf of our community to work out the advertisement issues), but that really hasn't stuck in terms of consensus on where to go from here. This thread isn't necessarily about those proposals, however, and I'd wanted to see what the user community may have to say about this topic. The reaction to this certainly has been interesting, to say the very least. A cooling off period of time could be useful before we engage with Jagex on this topic again, and certainly it would be nice to see if we could make some progress on at least addressing the problem ads that we as a community do object about. --Robert Horning 13:05, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Well people, I have to say I agree with Jagex here a little. I mean, remember the full page background ads? Uhhh...no no. Can someone please tell us exactly why we need every add? I really understand, seriously I do, that this site isn't going on without money, and that's what those adds rake in. But, really? Even Jagex can't handle us. (We're too awesome...?) Thanks for considering this issue. Ghrim's book.png WildWings Dragon plateskirt.png}} 05:14, November 14, 2009 (UTC)(and I didn't exactly read every post on here-more like skimmed)

The problem is that we don't control which ads we get, Wikia does. And they usually don't really think about an "impact" on our "reputation". Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 09:45, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
Not only do we not control the advertisements, but the ads also pay for the maintenance of this website. The problem is that the traditional "banner advertisements" common to websites no longer are able to grab people's attention, so the folks on New York's Madison Avenue are looking for different ways to try and get you to visit their website and keep you there. Wikia is being squeezed real hard here, as rejecting these sorts of full-page or background ads can be a significant loss of revenue... or it certainly can be very enticing to land say USD $10k for an advertising campaign on a popular site like the RS Wiki. That is pocket change for Madison Avenue, but difficult for Wikia to walk away from. The alternative is to seek donations like Wikipedia does. The operation costs of this website certainly run in the thousands of dollars per year, so it isn't something we can simply demand that adverstisements stop without some sort of financial structure in place to replace that revenue.
Also, Wikia (like Jagex and several other websites that depend on advertising for their revenue) buy advertising placement from bulk advertising aggregators that are the ones who actually puts the ads together in the first place. Only exceptionally large websites have their own staff to take direct placement of advertising... or can get advertisers willing to pay even remotely reasonable ad placement prices without going through an aggregator. What is so funny here is that Jagex, I believe, likely uses the same aggregator that Wikia uses... or certainly the ties are much closer than Jagex would be willing to admit. --Robert Horning 00:55, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

It's (in my opinion) unfair for Jagex not to list us as a fan site just because Wikia gives us a random assortment of adverts. So what if we occasionally have ads about other MMORPGs? It's not like anyone cares about those adverts anyway.Babe ruth43 14:28, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Discussion Closed - This was mostly a general notice to the community, and no consensus or action is really required to be performed based on this discussion. As discussion on this topic has died down, and to prevent it from being zombified in the future, I'm simply placing this into the archives and letting this discussion go to sleep. Future discussions on this topic should be made in a new thread. --Robert Horning 17:48, December 18, 2009 (UTC)