Forum:Welcome bot

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This thread was archived on 7 April 2013 by Hairr.

Hello RSW. Today, in the chat, Ansela was saying that she was the only one welcoming people and would be useful if we had a bot. So I found a script that runs well.

RSW Welcome Bot is the bot I would like to use to run the script. The script is a python (pywikipedia) script.

The bot scans the new users log and will check the bad name list, whitelist and if they are blocked before adding the welcome template. The welcome template that the bot uses is located at Template:Welcome.

As we don't want to direct all the new users to one person, it can choose from a list of signatures. Or, like Mol suggested, we can have a "global" signature.

I'll run it all day. But, please note, it may disconnect during the night.

The bot will use the welcome template that is already there. I have tested multiple times on the [[w:c:a|Answers Wiki]] and my [[w:c:jrmime|Test Wiki]]. On my test wiki, I have run the script many times and it never wanted to welcome the user Shitass due to a bad word being in it. On another hand, it welcomes the other uses without any difficulty. It does not read SC, but it only read the user creation log.

What do we need?

  • A bad name list located somewhere with the format: ('cat', 'mouse', 'dog').
  • A white list with the same format, that will list some exeptions
  • A reporting page that the bot will report bad names
  • A global signature, or a list of signatures from people who are dedicated to help new users

Any questions? Just ask away! I'll only use this bot to welcome new users, and not destroy the whole wiki away. — Jr Mime (talk) 23:19, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Option 2
Or... We could use the Wikia's bot. We could make him enter a global signature, make him welcome new users, disable welcoming IPs and we could use the template we have.

Jr Mime (talk) 18:46, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Oppose - WADABINGBOOMBOOMPOOFMOLISANUBANDJOEYCAKE MolMan 23:21, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Mol is a cute little pony! — Jr Mime (talk) 23:22, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
I'm fucking adorable, but that is beside the matter. MolMan 23:24, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, but seriously... I already hate that we welcome users as if it's a chore, but that doesn't mean we insult our new users further by not even giving them human acknowledgement. MolMan 17:44, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Or we just turn on Wikia's auto welcome bot again? Abusefilters can block account creation based on names. cqm 23:32, 11 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)

Wikia bot does not stalk User creation log. — Jr Mime (talk) 23:33, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
I would imagine Wikia's bot does it based on account creation or first edits. Regardless, it works 100% of the time (assuming they haven't broken it recently). cqm 00:43, 12 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)

Comment - If we're going to do it, we should use the Wikia wiki bot. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 00:40, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - I think this is a horrible idea. If this proposal were to pass, just use to Wikia. It has the capability of doing the exact same thing. Either way, I don't like this. There doesn't seem to be any actual reason to implement a bot to do this task when humans are doing it perfectly fine now. It's not like it's a tedious task. I'd also like to point to here: Wikipedia:Perennial proposals (i know, i know, not wp). The 1st point is very valid in this case. Hundreds of welcomes from a welcome bot can seem impersonal (I bet there is more people viewing the history than we think), which would

Also, one of the only reasons stated is that Ansela is the only one welcoming users. Welcoming a user in under 5 minutes is not a required. Someone more than likely will welcome the 3 new accounts from the past day. It hasn't proved to be a problem, from what I see. I feel there be no reason to have a bot to do this. Hair 01:47, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Strong oppose any bot welcoming a user (that includes wikia) - Useless in my opinion. When I used to welcome users (I still do, not as actively however D:) they would sometimes ask me questions, and so what would they do if a bot welcomed them? Who would they go to to ask questions? The point about Ansela asking for a bot is not a good reason. Sure, the bot would fix the problem, but really, just because one person wants a bot doesn't mean we should rush to conclusions. Hair's point about a user not needing to be welcomed immediately is a one I agree with. Welcoming a user within 5 minutes is not a necessity. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 04:41, March 12, 2013 (UTC) Per Hair. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 10:56, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

You realise Wikia's bot signs with the name of an admin? It's not like the bot signs with Wikia 10:39, March 12, 2013 (UTC). cqm 10:39, 12 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)
Oh, I must of been thinking of something else. I have withdrawn my points. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 10:56, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Option 2 - I have proposed a new option. We could use the Wikia's bot. We could make him enter a global signature, make him welcome new users, disable welcoming IPs and we could use the template we have.Jr Mime (talk) 18:46, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia's bot uses this page to load the welcome template: MediaWiki:Welcome-message-user. — Jr Mime (talk) 18:50, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
Does Wikia's bot genuinely welcome IPs? I find that a little hard to believe.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cåm (talk).
Yes. Wikia's bot uses [[MediaWiki:Welcome-message-anon-answers2]] or MediaWiki:Welcome-message-anon to welcome IPs all the time. If a IP has edited and doesn't have a talk page, he will create one. But, I think we can disable that feature so it only welcomes new users and not IPs. — Jr Mime (talk) 22:57, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - We've been through this several times before in the past. It was shot down because the point of welcoming users is to give them a personal greeting from one fellow editor to another as they start out here -- not for a bot to add an automated template to a page. Nty. Ronan Talk 19:33, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

They're impersonal now; slightly less, but impersonal nonetheless. MolMan 19:35, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
They're still coming from someone with (in most cases) independent thought. Also, unrelated, but is there a reason why people are using such embarrassing grammar all over this thread. Ronan Talk 19:41, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
True, but I don't think their not thinking "Hey, a new user, I hope I can help them." I think its more like "Oh, a red link talk page! I should place this pretty template." I also don't see what your talking about with the grammar. MolMan 19:46, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
Extremely true Mol. Red link talk page = brain says to put a template on it. — Jr Mime (talk) 19:47, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
I'm trying to say that personal, varied welcome templates from real, different people are always much nicer to see on wikis than a standardised blanket template by a bot. Please browse through our past discussions on this for more in depth explanations. As for the grammar, I just noticed that it seems to be particularly bad in places here. Pay no heed. Ronan Talk 19:50, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
The only thing that varies really is the colors and a signature. They're all formulaic, non-genuine welcomes. MolMan 20:00, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
This is of course, not good - and one of the reasons welcoming on en:Wikipedia has often fallen short of the personal nature needed. It is by far better to hand type a short, apposite, welcome, than to use any form of template, especially one designed by the wiki process. Rich Farmbrough, 14:48 13 March 2013 (UTC).

┌──────────────────────────┘
A personal touch is all well and good, but Joey made a good point here about learning rules early on. If a welcome doesn't do that, what will? And honestly, I can't expect people to type out something new every time they see an empty talk page, so a template is the inevitable solution, regardless of how much we don't like it. cqm 15:18, 13 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)

Frankly, not all of our policies are too foreign or complex, I think we could let large majority of new editors just edit at will; if they mess up and use American-English spelling, good! we can direct them to the style guide, and hopefully they will have the sense to read the other policies too. We have the biggest problems with image uploaders, but most of them don't listen to reason — half of them upload once then are never heard of again. MolMan 18:40, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - This is one of the few situations where automating something would be bad. System is running fine, and semi-personal, templated welcomes by a human are preferable to a bot any day. 222 talk 11:10, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

amen. Ronan Talk 16:55, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - I personally enjoy welcoming new users. Ain't that hard to do either. WgvxeSr.png - frouZAC.png 17:55, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Except that the last time you welcomed someone was in January. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 11:49, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
Chawminduh pls. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 06:59, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - I think non-automated welcoming is nice. The only wiki that I know of that does this at the moment is the FFWiki. When I edited there, sometimes people would respond and say "thanks" and whatnot after we welcomed them, maybe because they could see that a person was doing it. And there'd be period where users didn't get welcomed for a while, but almost everyone with more than 1 or 2 edits was welcomed pretty quickly. --Shockstorm (talk) 03:55, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Support some sort of welcoming bot - Seriously? Only like 3 people welcome new users and it is as automated as a human can get. If you like the diversity, make the bot have some choose/option welcome templates that are all colorful and pretty. The only difference is the account that is doing the actual welcoming. ._. It will happen quicker and no one will be forgotten, which is often the case. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 02:18, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

To address the whole "well if users welcome them, that will show them that people are around to answer questions!" crap (which I have never witnessed): Reformat the welcome template the bot would use to point new users to talk pages or the wiki chat for help if they can't find it at UH. Just change it to be very clear on how to communicate with us. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 16:03, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

If you are opposing a welcoming bot - Pick up the slack. ʞooɔ 02:32, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

I oppose any sort of formulaic welcoming. MolMan 02:33, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Support - What exactly is so personal about slapping a template on someone's talk page? New users won't know the difference and the welcoming process will be much more uniform and efficient. If you're really craving the personal touch, leave them a quick follow up note after the bot does its thing. --Aburnett(Talk) 04:54, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Sure - Let's use User:Wikia. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 16:05, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - In my personal experience I have usually felt less at home at wikis where I was welcomed by a bot than ones where I was welcomed by a user, like this one. It might not say much about how at home I would feel if I actually became active in the community, but first impressions like this really matter.

If you're welcomed by a bot, then that's that - some bot put some template down. If you're welcomed by a user then someone actually took the time to post on your talk, look through your contribs, etc - at least that's what I do when I welcome someone. For me welcoming someone to the wiki is much more than just slapping a template on a talk page, it's about meeting someone new and introducing them to the community (and vice versa). A bot can never do that. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 16:20, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

More like if you're welcomed by a user, then some user put some template down. We don't look through contribs - there usually aren't any. If there are I still don't look, there's no reason to when I'm just slapping welcome templates down. You don't meet them and you only introduce them to the community through the template. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 00:22, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
Then why do you even welcome them in the first place if it's just "slapping a template down"? I always look through contribs if they have any and try to find out at least what kind of user it's going to be - otherwise what's the point of being human? Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 10:55, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
Because it's an annoying task that 2 or 3 people just do every day as a normal part of maintenance. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 13:16, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
If you see it that way then stop doing it... There's plenty of other people who don't mind welcoming people. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 22:30, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
Please direct me toward these people. Also what does the intention matter, the results are the same - copy/paste welcome template, move on to next person. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 22:41, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
Here's one Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 13:56, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
I like that use of templates. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 23:32, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
I like how you completely ignored the point I am trying to make. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 16:15, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
I like how personal you are with welcoming users. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 17:56, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose both, strong oppose RSW Welcome Bot - Firstly, let me say that if we do use a bot, we should stick with Wikia's. There's no point in coding and troubleshooting our own.

Now, for the crux of my opposition to a welcome bot. The whole reason we got rid of it was because it was way too impersonal. At least when we leave a template on someone's talk page, we've put in a conscious effort to welcome that person. A bot is just way too extreme in terms of laziness and lacking in the amicable touch that only a real living breathing member of the Homo sapiens species can provide.

That aside, my other issue is that signing with the last active administrator (I believe based on the last one to edit, though I'm not sure) is not the most useful, especially when the last active administrator was from a long time ago and we have an active regular user around at the time who's ready and willing to help the new user should the need arise.

The welcome bot is a part of our past that should stay in the past. --LiquidTalk 08:16, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

That argument is silly considering we do the exact same thing the bot does without a second thought. The other day there was an issue with someone welcoming a blocked user because they didn't even look at the new user's name - it is impersonal, even if it's coming from humans. Regarding your second issue... That is also silly considering if you welcomed someone then logged off, you'd get the exact same result. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 13:16, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
Homo sapiens? or Homo sapiens sapiens? Also, I am Sciurus carolinensis. The second issue is addressed with the use of a global signature that represents the community. Rather than User: and User talk: links, it would have links to RS:UH and RS:AR and could also include other links. MolMan 18:38, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
Because everyone follows RS:UH/RS:AR and Wikia's notification system works perfectly (When was the last time you had an email when someone left a message on your talk page?). cqm 19:08, 21 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)
Less about that, more about the bot not signing with someone else's name. MolMan 19:11, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
The bot signs with the last admin who edited. I can see it causing a little confusion if a long inactive admin happens to get a message thanking them for a welcome and asking questions, seeing as we have a potential 75 admins of which 13 are active (we'll ignore the 13 'crats for now) with maybe a dozen inactive admins who randomly edit from time to time who could 'sign' a welcome. Can sysop bot accounts sign the welcome too? We might have some issues if any of us fire up our AWB or Azbot does...whatever Azbot does now. cqm 20:58, 21 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)
All the more reason for a "global signature". MolMan 20:59, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
In response to Ferg's comment, that is an issue with the user, not the process. The human automaton process described is not one that I undertake, and I'm sure there are others out there that don't view it as an automatic process. The bottom line is that there is a lot more control over the process if it's done by an actual human and not a computer. In regard to adding links to UH/AR, that is about as impersonal as you can get. Instead of having something signed by an actual user (or at least with a user's name), you send people to a generic page? That's a real warm hearty welcome. --LiquidTalk 21:03, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
The impersonal-ness? In for a penny, in for a pound. MolMan 21:06, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
We can at least make an effort to pretend to be personable. --LiquidTalk 21:07, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
I can't take your argument seriously when you are not an active welcomer. It is automated, even if it's from humans we're just copying/pasting. A bot with links to UH would seriously solve every problem presented in this thread. If you disagree with the process then you need to be looking to make a new YG to change it and make it more personal. What you have to work with as of right now is what others have said: slapping a template on a talk page. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 22:02, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
In for a penny, in for a pound. MolMan 22:13, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
What do you mean by copy pasting? The AutoWelcome script places the text on the editor for you and all you have to do is press "Save page". svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 12:57, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
I'm so glad that Liquid decided to provide some comic relief by trying to tell everyone that a template added by a bot is so much less personal than a template added by a person with a script. Lol. But if the last admin thing is a bit problem, we can always just... remove it from the template. Ajraddatz (Talk) 13:31, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
or use one signature for the entire wiki. MolMan 13:39, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
  • Support using Wikia's bot - Templates are non-welcoming anyway, and a new user doesn't care if they get one from the bot or from a person (and can't tell the difference either). Ajraddatz (Talk) 12:58, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Sort-of-supportish - All things considered, the welcome template is still a template, and new users may or may not even know whether the signature is a user or just part of the template. That said, it still may make some people feel welcome, so perhaps a suffix to add a random user's sig from a list. Real Crazy 13:20, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Starting at 15:04 on 26 March, 14 accounts have not been welcomed (it's currently 03:23 27 March). One has been welcomed (account created at 01:06 27 March and welcomed at 01:33 27 March), one was warned for creating a nonexistent page. Twelve hours and these accounts have not been welcomed. Why is this bad? Because these people aren't even on the wiki anymore. When a user is welcomed quickly (by a person or bot), they get the bubble telling them they have new messages, enticing them to remain on the wiki longer and check out the message we've left them. If we welcome them even a few hours later, they are long gone - their time and attention spent. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 03:26, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that's a poor example once you realize how many of even the swiftly welcomed accounts are gone without doing a single edit. MolMan 13:48, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
Welcoming them sends out the message that there is someone who can help with their questions, regardless of if they need or want it. If it builds our active userbase I'm willing to give it a go, we need every bit of help we can get. cqm 16:16, 27 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)
Cam's right. Every little bit helps, and obviously it's more beneficial to welcome them quickly than half a day later, even if the results are not perfect. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 18:50, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Support using Wikia - Per Fergie's above comment. A template is a template regardless of who, or what, puts it there. cqm 04:41, 27 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)

Update from staff - I messaged staff with a few questions regarding the Wikia welcome bot, the general guide can be seen [[Help:Welcome tool|here]].

  • Bots with sysop tools can sign welcomes. This has been filed as a bug in light of me bringing it up, no ETA on the fix.
  • Choose tags may be usable instead of using @sysop, to limit the welcomers to active sysops. However, this is largely untested.
  • The bot is run globally, thus it can take a few minutes to welcome a new user. This can be held up if someone deletes a few thousand article comments in one go (such as deleting a page with lots of comments) on any wiki as I understand it. This was stressed to be a rare event though.

The main issue I can see here is bots signing the welcome. There are 9 bots with sysop tools, 3 or which are run by inactive sysops. 5 of these bots have not been run in the past month, and only run periodically/on demand/as back-ups to existing bots (I'm not 100% sure about HairyBot). AzBot is my main concern here, and I believe it uses sysop tools as part of it's regular tasks. cqm 22:26, 28 Mar 2013 (UTC) (UTC)

I'd prefer it not use use @sysop or choose tags at all. Choose tags would (most likely) actually just put all those tags on the page instead of choosing one. Nonetheless, it's signing with a signature of someone who didn't even do the welcome. I don't think it should be opt in either (if we [god forbid] go with the choose tags). Just give the bot its own signature that provides generic help links. Also, comments are stupid, just wanted to say that. MolMan 23:48, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Closed - There is no consensus to implement a welcome bot, whether it be Wikia or RSW Welcome Bot. Hair 17:21, April 7, 2013 (UTC)