Forum:We have more friends space now..

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This thread was archived on 22 June 2010 by Azaz129.

Due to a recent update by Jagex, we now have more friends list space for free players. Thus, R S Wikia can have more ranks. Could we consider re-opening the rfrs for a while and give the other people a chance to have a rank? It seems to me that since the last bout of ranks accepted, the only way to obtain a rank is to do an RFA, which some people cannot do for the sake of activity. Many people would be more useful with a clan chat rank and no wiki powers than alot of administrators are with are with both, for the sake of inactivity. Discuss.--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 23:47, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - I went on the CC today and there were no rankers on. Yes, we could use some more. ajr 23:49, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Why not? I believe one of the reasons they were closed was because of a lack of space in R S Wikia's friend list.  Tien  23:52, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ultra-Support - It's about time! Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 23:55, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - Honestly I have never been on when there has not been at least one other rank in the channel. In addition, the ranks are pretty much powerless against the trolls these days, it's near impossible to kick them with the hop-in, hop-out routine they use. --Aburnett(Talk) 23:57, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

But would it hurt to have a few more? ajr 23:58, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Nope, that's why I'm neutral Wink --Aburnett(Talk) 23:59, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Lol, I just realized that D: ajr 00:05, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Support(3*Edit conflict ftl) - There have been quite a bit of times when I'm on and the only ranked person in the CC, we really could use some more ranks at those times, and why not to put the extra space in R S Wikia's friend list to use? Quest point cape detail.png Brux Talk 00:00, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Support - (Edit conflict with Ajr, Aburnett, Brux)I frequently see no ranks around these times:

UTC Pacific Mountain Central Eastern    UK    Europe East Aus
7:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
12:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
1:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
2:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
3:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
8:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
9:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
5:00 pm
Tue, 3 Aug
and 
UTC Pacific Mountain Central Eastern    UK    Europe East Aus
1:00 pm
Tue, 3 Aug
6:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
7:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
8:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
9:00 am
Tue, 3 Aug
2:00 pm
Tue, 3 Aug
3:00 pm
Tue, 3 Aug
11:00 pm
Tue, 3 Aug

I think that perhaps deranking the cc-inactive sysops and substituting in some people who are active in the cc (in addition to adding new people now that we have more friend space) would be useful. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 00:03, June 8, 2010 (UTC) 

Comment - I'm Central, does that mean to be prime subject for a rank I'd have to play at either 2am (about the time I got to sleep) or 8am (about the time I'm still sleeping for another 3 hours)?--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 00:06, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Not at all, that's just when I play most often, and I see a lack of ranks fairly often during those times. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 00:10, June 8, 2010 (UTC) 

Neutral - Per Aburnett. Good luck getting C Teng on for very long guys lol. HaloTalk 00:07, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - While it is true that we have room for nearly 150 more ranked names, I don't really see why we'd need it. It's fairly rare that we get a spammer, and those that do just pop in and out. It would be nice, but I don't see much of a use. ʞooɔ 00:07, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Sometimes there are ranked users on but are just in the lobby and not paying attention to the clan chat as they are on the wiki or else where. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 00:20, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment If we reopen the Rfr, which I do not think we need, it would be very smart to consider limiting it to active wikians. They demonstrate through editing that they are focused on the wiki, and hold to some sort of wiki ideal (although I sure can't define exactly what that would be). We do have a lot of good people who hang out in the CC, I certainly recognize that fact. But it is theWiki cc, not a clan. Instead of trying to establish some sort of numbers to satisfy a requirement that one is active, I would ask that people just engage their brains and use some smarts when deciding on whether one should be given a rank. New people to the the CC will look at ranks as representatives of this site. Keep that in mind.--Degenret01 04:00, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose (or Support on conditions) - Before Jagex's update, we still had like 30 spots free once we had removed more double and inactive accounts. But more ranks are not necessarily a good thing. I'm sure many of you have seen times when there are 5+ ranks in the CC at one time. Are that many ranks necessary? Truly, we only need one active rank, but it's always good to have 2 or 3 in case a few leave. But 5+ can just create a sense of repression or absence from "the group". It's also starting to become an issue where CC-goers believe that once you've been around for a set amount of time, you gain the privilege to become a rank and be part of "the group". It shouldn't be based on that user's needs, or the amount of space we have, but on the wiki's needs. We don't need another 10 ranks to add on to the current 5+ we have in US peak times, while other times that have no ranks are still unaffected. As TLUL pointed out above, there are only specific times which need more ranks, really. I'll only support on the condition that ranks are carefully chosen on the basis of if they will help the wiki and their effectiveness; not because of their time in the CC, etc. Chicken7 >talk 06:09, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - This could be helpful for co-ordination of the upcoming (hopefully) fansite tournament thingy. Ranked users can't be on all the time and it would be helpful to always have someone to co-ordiante/guide everyone in events like clan wars or castle wars. [Pharos] 07:11, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

During official events, we can easily temporarily rank moderators of the event. Such methods have been used at past wikifests. Chicken7 >talk 12:41, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
That assumes C Teng will be there. HaloTalk 12:42, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Number 1, C Teng can be asked to rank the users a day or two before the actual event, then a derank a little after the event itself. 2, so you're supporting ranking users just so they're always there for future events, and not for the purpose of CC mods (to protect it from trolls)? And 3, the R S Wikia CC should not be used for official events, as the vast majority of players do not take part, and don't plan to. They should not be disrupted because some users wish to have an event. All events should (and have in the past) taken place in other CCs. Chicken7 >talk 05:46, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Support - It is really annoying when there are no ranks which i do see often, and I have actually been thinking about this, as there are so many free spots, for a while though. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 09:11, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Slight Oppose - I don't really see a need for more ranks when we have about 3-7 when we actually get trolls, the only time zone lacking ranks in the Australian one and I'm often online during Australian evening and nights in the Clan Chat on weekends are there are almost never any trolls or spammers.   Swizz Talk   Events!   15:04, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Every time i am in the clan chat there is at least one other ranked member there, we hardly ever get spam or trolls so there is very little need to make more editors ranked Slayer Timwac talk Fire cape.png 16:10, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - This is the typical administrator argument. We only need one ranker, however, it doesn't hurt to have more than that. Likewise, it won't hurt us to have a couple more. ajr 16:16, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

It's not really like that. You can't just kick someone whenever you want, you can only do that when the troll is in the cc. However, you can block someone whenever you want. bad_fetustalk 16:33, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
It does hurt to have more. I said that in my statement above. Are we seriously going to rank people just because we have room? Chicken7 >talk 05:48, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Weak support - Per Aburnett. bad_fetustalk 16:34, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - When trolls come through, which happens often enough while I'm in the clan chat, I always feel so helpless. For a long time now, the only way to obtain a rank has to run an rfa. Some administrators only do work on the wiki and don't really need a rank. Likewise, some people do limited work on the wiki, and only have a couple hundred edits (such as myself), but show up in the cc every day, and could benefit from a rank. Because of this, I Oppose Degen's proposal. Keep in mind that rfr rules say not to look at someones edit count when voting in an rfr, thus your proposal will go completely against prior rules.--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 18:14, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Chicken7, plus, half the CC ranks are so far out of control, biased, and often rude, that we don't need to give them any more strength in numbers. Also, forgot to sign =X I am not vot, I am Melon! 16:59, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

So ironic coming from someone who has baited me on numerous occasions, to the point I have had to add you to my ignore list. And yet I have never kicked you.--Degenret01 12:20, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
I have to say that I agree that a few of the ranks can be quite biased. Most of them, though, are perfectly fine. Everyone has off days, but overall, our ranks are pretty good. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 19:21, June 10, 2010 (UTC) 

Picture - 10 June 2010 No ranks. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 12:10, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

with time (12:04 UTC), still no ranks when i leave 30 mins laterHunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 12:17, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
So, how many spammers or trolls came in while there were no ranks on?--Degenret01 12:18, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
None but if there was for those 20 mins, no1 could do a thing about it. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 12:28, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) None but how many where there today when ranks were on? Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 12:30, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
None. Hmm, time to derank some extras then?--Degenret01 12:46, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
Uhhh... overkill? bad_fetustalk 13:00, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
@Chess, that's the point Sentra was inferring. @Sentra and Evil, I agree that it'd be preferred if we had ranks in those times. Although there was no trouble, we can never know. But both Sentra and Evil are Australian, and online in the times tLUL mentioned. We only should have new ranks for those times. Chicken7 >talk 14:18, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
Yup. More ranks in other time zones would be pointless. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 19:03, June 10, 2010 (UTC) 
That I agree with :) ajr 19:06, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
I almost feel like that's a breach of RS:AEAE. Why only rank Australian time zone people if someone from Europe or America is just as deserving? ʞooɔ 19:09, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
I see where you come from, Cook Me Plox. I was thinking about that, that it goes against RS:AEAE and is almost to the point of racism. The rfrs should be opened to everyone, or not at all.--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 19:52, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
I think you're following AEAE far, far too strictly. As much as everyone should be given a chance, we should use some common sense and be logical about it. We have plenty of ranks on during UK/US afternoon/evening, more (maybe even what we have currently) can/could be detrimental to the CC per Chicken, hence we do not need any more ranks for that time period. In the times tLUL identified we could do with a couple extra so we should get ranks that are often on at those times. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 20:28, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
Like I said, that's not exactly how I feel, it just seems a little bit unfair. Seeing as we only have 53 people ranked, we certainly have room for ranks from non-Australian timezones. Opening ranks to only Australians seems like it's pushing it. However, I get your point that we should have even numbers of people from the different timezones. However, if only Australians were allowed to do RfRs, it could lead to some bad consequences. ʞooɔ 21:39, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
Umm chicken just so you know evil is actually from Oregon he is just on at the normal Australian time. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 00:11, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
The Wiki's needs should come before others'. That is the point of closing the RfRs; because we did not need extra ranks. We did in tLUL's specified times, but it was a bit late to propose it. And oops; O_o I must be getting my Evils confused. Chicken7 >talk 01:53, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
It is not to late now though, we could make it a requirement is you must be on usually between 3am eastern and 9am eastern (don't know GMT because just copying from above) or at least that be one of the things that helps you to pass (if there is 1 spot and 2 people going for it the one on in those times would get it if there is consensus).Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:28, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support - I believe that many people would be fit to have a rank without having admin tools on the wiki. There are no downsides to having more. ShinyUnown T | C | E 21:23, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Support/Oppose - I think the meaning of ranking is being disputed here. Personally, I don't think it's about getting a fair chance to be in "the group," as Chicken called it; being ranked is about being responsible and performing a service for the chat, the chat members, the wiki, and whoever. It isn't about race or racism, either; it's about time. We don't need ranks that play during popular times; we have plenty. We need ranks that play during times that are convenient for Australians, which, honestly, could include people that live in Eastern Asia and Western United States who play during times that are less convenient, stereotypically, for people of that time zone. It could include anybody if they play often during the right times. All that said, I support ranking people who play during any times with no or few active ranks, and I oppose ranking more people who play during popular times because, really, "because we can" is a poor excuse to rank someone, and because Chicken made a good point when he addressed "the group" and what may feel like "rejection" from it. Leftiness 22:20, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I think it would be nice to have some ranks on in the 2-4 AM eastern period, the period when i am on the most

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

22:29, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - as always. It is not necessary to have a rank in the clan chat 24/7 and many people request a rank just for the sake of having one, claiming, "I would be able to help the community if I had 3 stripes next to my name!"...all this garbage about high risks of spammers is ridiculous..they very rarely come and when they do you can just report and use your ignore list. Andrew talk 14:21, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

So what you are saying is we don't need any ranks at any times as we could just do this?Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 00:28, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
No..I am merely saying that we don't need over 9000 ranks, which is what I stressed in May of last year (the last time we had this discussion). Andrew talk 18:07, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Looking at this it says you have two ranked accounts, which was recently decided to make it so you can only have one ranked account, is there any reason for this, also with the discussion (here) that we recently had de-ranked lots of inactive users so with all the people de-ranked we should get a few ranked to replace them.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 02:00, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
I was unaware that this decision was made, and I honestly forgot that I had a second ranked account. I remember requesting that account to be ranked awhile back in case anything were to happen to my main account, but feel free to derank it. Andrew talk 03:48, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
Ok i will ask C Teng to de rank it. And the discussion is hereHunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 04:42, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
Also what do you say to that we recently had de-ranked lots of inactive users so with all the people de-ranked we should get a few ranked to replace them?Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 04:56, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
No. Ranking people for the sake of having lots of ranks is pointless. Unless there are suddenly a bunch of spam attacks and no ranks ever around to kick them then we are fine. Andrew talk 15:42, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
Look. We're doing great how we are at the moment. We really don't need any more ranks especially since we hardly ever get spammers/trolls coming in. We should carry on as we were before the whole update occurred  Swizz Talk   Events!  
@Swiz- Yesterday we had three admins in the CC, but none of those three seemed to actually be paying attention. We had two trolls during that time. My irl friend was visiting the chat for the second time, and he commented that our cc was not doing very well and that those people needed to be kicked. People spam us because they think we're vulnerable. Are we going wait for those ~130 friends spaces we have to clog up with more administrators who may not even show up in the CC, or give them to people who need them?--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 21:03, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
1. That is one incident and you cannot use one incident bolster your entire argument. 2. No rank is going to be paying attention 100% of the time. We play the game; we don't spend all our time online policing the clan chat. The same would be the case with any new ranks. 3. You can report/ignore a few trolls as a temporary solution. 4. Again, by focusing on getting a large number of new ranks, you are wanting more ranks just for the sake of having them. There is no consistent evidence to even suggest that we require them. Not all ranks are admins and they know what they are doing. They don't have to spend all their time in the clan chat either. 5. Nobody needs a rank. Please quit misusing this word. Andrew talk 22:33, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
Also, bear in mind that a kick only lasts one hour. Some of these trolls will patiently wait out that hour or hop to one of their 7 other accounts they use to spam us. Trying to focus on when they come in to kick them before they get their message off and leave is an incredibly fruitless game. Your just Feeding the trolls actually, by giving them the attention they so desperately crave. ALL people in the CC should add trolls to their ignore list and one person should notify C Teng to have them added to the CC ignore when he is able to do so.--Degenret01 23:12, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I agree; especially considering that the trolls hop in and out of the chat, adding them to our ignore lists and the chat ignore list is much more effective than trying to kick them. Leftiness 00:34, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. Also would like to add that there isn't really a need to notify C Teng about a spammer on his first offense, as it is just a waste of time. If we get repeat offenders, like that guy awhile back, then it is a different case. Chicken7 >talk 05:45, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - There is no need for more ranks. There is typically always a ranked person in the CC, and if there is not, just add them to your ignore list, and tell everyone else to do so. That is how you kick them, theoretically. Ranks shouldn't be a type of club and make you feel better about yourself, sorry if I'm so blunt. In all actuality we could have no ranks and everyone could just ignore the spammers. If you do open this request for ranks it will be an all out free for all to see who can get the ranks and those who don't will cry and pout about it. It's best to leave ranks to the sysops. I will personally feel belittled if I log in one day and find myself the only unranked user. Since it seems all the supporters are the main chatters in the CC. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 07:26, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

I will support however if this ever happens to me again. http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6654/cc2h.png xScoobsx Talk Contribs 07:33, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
OMG! Never seen the chat empty before, lol. What was it, like 3 in the morning? Andrew talk 15:32, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
It was actually after an update and no one had logged back in yet. :P xScoobsx Talk Contribs 18:25, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
lol. But still, there have been times where I've been left completely alone. You could say I'm a rank, so therefore, the time isn't rankless. But I'm not on at the same time every night; it's bound to happen when myself or another rank is not around. Chicken7 >talk 06:21, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
But in that event everyone could just ignore the user? xScoobsx Talk Contribs 06:35, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
That is a baseless argument because you could say people in a busy time zone could do that and that that means ranks are kinda useless, also there have been a few trolling in the last couple of days and at those particular times there was a ranks, but about 10minutes-2hours later there has been no ranks, but you have to scroll through the page to see everyone.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:58, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
I quote myself... "In all actuality we could have no ranks and everyone could just ignore the spammers." xScoobsx Talk Contribs 07:18, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I felt an urge to put this photo in this discussion: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4334/toomanyranks.png bad_fetustalk 10:00, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - What if I don't want to just add them to my ignore? I want them kicked, not "ignored". They can always get to someone, and they still feel that we're powerless to them if we just "ignore" them. and at Chess, what was that, "3 in the morning?"--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 16:22, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

By ignoring them you do not see what they say... So what's the problem there? Is it now that you have to feel in power? That's what you just said. And I do also stay up late into the night/morning around 3 AM, and there is always a rank online. Like last night I can remember off the top of my head, Gaz, Yanks, and Chicken. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 17:22, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Let me bring in an analogy. In-game everywhere you go there are rule breakers. People demeaning, putting down, and being out-right rude to other players of the game, if you want to argue that you need to turn your public chat on. Now do you see a player moderator at all these different places at every time and waking moment this happens? Hell no! That's why the ignore and report functions were implemented a long time ago. Pmods are not always going to be there to mute someone on the spot; I'd say Pmods are there around 1-2% of the time things happen. Jagex isn't making everyone and their mom's a Pmod just so they can mute people on the spot, so why do you think that the wiki needs to make almost everyone a rank so there is always someone there, when in all actuality there usually is. By filling up ALL 100 of the spots in the CC like you proposed then you should just make everyone a rank. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 17:35, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Yoda, it's midday in UTC. bad_fetustalk 21:15, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Yoda, you are completely missing the points we have made. There is absolutely no need for any other ranks right now because the current ranks rarely ever have to kick anyone and when a problem does arise (which very rarely happens), a rank is virtually always on. For those few instances out of the already very few instances of trouble when no rank is on, that's when you can utilize your ignore list and the report abuse feature. Now, unless someone can come up with a legitimate reason for needing ranks besides having more ranks for the sake of having them or "just in case", I think this is settled. We had this same discussion last year and these same points were made and proven. Andrew talk 01:52, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - I see no reason why we need more ranks. Many of the arguments have already been stated, so I won't be an echo of them, but I do have one point not brought up. Right now the cc is a pretty peaceful place, with very few trolls coming by and no "hopping" trolls from what I've seen for weeks. If we ever need more ranks, we have a reserve, and trust me one day all of our current ranks will be gone and the baton will be passed off. Unless we get bombarded by trolls, I suggest we don't pull a draft unless in times of turmoil with trolls/the ratio of active ranks to users is incredibly off balance. Right now I think we're pretty much set. Just remember: Having a rank is NOT a big deal. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 17:04, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - There is currently no consensus to reopen the ranks request process.--

Helm of neitiznot (charged).png Azaz129 Crystal shield.png Talk Edits Contribs

18:09, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Request to reopen - This happened. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 11:10, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Support reopen - IT happened for 30mins straight.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:05, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - It was 30 minutes, add him to ignore leave him alone, he'll get bored. That will happen no matter how many ranks you have. Furthermore, this should be on Azaz's talk page, not this forum, as this is closed. HaloTalk 07:21, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

There where 5 accounts doing this in that time. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 08:09, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
Support reopen - I did kick him eventually. >.> I think it's also important to note that the spammer was one we've had for a while, who gave us a lot of grief. I would support reopening, under the condition that only ranks in specific times are considered. Chicken7 >talk 14:22, June 27, 2010 (UTC)