Forum:Usergroup Crowns

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Forums: Yew Grove > Usergroup Crowns
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This thread was archived on 15 November 2010 by Haloolah123.

Due to the recent approval of the Custodian usergroup from the thread Forum:Add "movefile" right to Rollback, User:Thebrains222 requested a crown be made for the new usergroup at RuneScape:User_help#Custodian crown, and then since so many people started to make crowns, started Forum:Custodian crown, and that caused a lot of problems over whether or not usergroups should have crowns.

Here is what I think, all usergroups should have a crown to go with their userbox, and then for those who do not have any additional rights, a separate userbox be made with a crown designed for them, basically saying how they are an equal member of the community.

The idea of only sysops and b'crats being allowed to have crowns seems to make it seem like they "rule" over the wiki like kings. Basically either every usergroup should have a crown, or none should. If crowns are not a good idea for you, we could create an icon for each group, or just simply put the word "sysop", "B'crat", "Custodian", "Rollback", and "Bot" in each userbox. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:36, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

It would be a good idea to have a read over these threads:

And reading this could be helpful as well...

222 talk 07:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - Per the fool who wrote it. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:36, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Remove all - Frankly I think userboxes just add bling. HaloTalk 05:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Nice first paragraph Wink 222 talk 06:29, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Complicated opinion - Oppose total removal of crowns, but strongly support its replacement by something else (e.g. a shield?) because it will help identify different users who can help with different things (that is just one example). Support a more generic type of identification. Strong oppose the removal of hilites and the total removal of any sort of identification system for usergroups, reasoning being easy identification as one example. Phew, that was kinda tiring to type... 222 talk 06:29, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

That's why we have [[:Category:Active administrators]], RuneScape:User help, RuneScape:Administrator requests. HaloTalk 12:00, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
Also, if you want we could copy a list of administrators, helpers, staff, bots, etc, and a link to the page someone needs to use in order to have it in their personal css. Serves the same purpose, gets rid of the bling effect. HaloTalk 12:02, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support Remove - Crowns are not useful in any way and there really is no reason for them to be used. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:49, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

The proposal is to have crowns, oppose if you want them gone.-- Degen says Unban TLUL  07:02, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Remove - Per Halo. Suppa chuppa Talk 06:59, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I nearly suggest keeping the crowns because that's what we already have, and I don't wanna change stuff that isn't breaking much. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 12:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Nearly? Or Merely? HaloTalk 12:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure what I meant to put, but if I had to guess, I'd say merely. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 20:51, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Why are crowns bad? Sure, it might be a very small violation of AEAE, but is it a big deal? I don't think so. Removing them doesn't bother me, it just seems like a bunch of wasted time and effort to take down something small and unimportant. Mr. Anura 12:35, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support complete removal of crowns - But possibly replace them with something else, like a shield. Crowns liken us to, say, Jagex Mods, or PMods, which we are nothing like. Also remove hilites while you're at it. ajr 13:00, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'd rather not have anything. Just because it's more blingly, and that's why I removed mine. I think the active/inactive categories are good enough. But I fully support getting rid of the hilites as well. HaloTalk 17:16, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Remove the crowns - I never understood why we began using crowns for symbols for various user groups. I can't remember if I participated in the forum about the deletion and restoration of the crowns, but as of now, I thoroughly loathe the symbols. If not because of Jagex's partyhats, J Mod/P Mod/F Mod crowns, it's because of the affinity brought through the years by each file. As well as what Ajr said, remove the hilites unless this also requires further discussion on a separate thread. My reasoning for the removal is not because they may violate RS:AEAE in my view, it's because of the attachment to the image, while that may be debated to keep them, it should be noted that we should not use Jagex symbols for our own. Even if it is remotely similar. There's my 2 cents. Ryan PM 14:47, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

GTFO CROWNS - Per Ajr/Ryan.   Swizz Talk   Events!   17:10, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Keep - If this violates AEAE, you might as well give everyone sysop rights, since that violates AEAE at least as much as this does. Seriously, they are just used in a few userboxes, nobody goes like 'amg I need to be a sysop to have this kewl crown' unless they have some mental problems. bad_fetustalk 17:17, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Not everyone could have sysop rights, but technically anybody can put the crown on their page supposing they don't say "I'm an admin." HaloTalk 17:22, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
Then how the hell does that hurt the wiki? bad_fetustalk 17:22, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
Lots of things don't hurt the wiki, but that doesn't mean they are optimal. HaloTalk 17:24, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
They are used in userboxes. What's wrong with having images that are used in userboxes? Give me one reason why they should be removed. bad_fetustalk 17:25, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Keep - Although I can respect the fact no one likes to be tread on, the fact that people are so hurt over a bunch of damn pixels is just embarrassing. Even though things can change, why try to "fix" something that isn't really broken? It's different colored pixels in the formation of a crown, get over it for the love of God. If we switched to shields or something, this issue would arise again being "His shield is moar powahful than meinnnnn!!!!!1!" and we'll be back here doing this AGAIN. I say keep things as we are, tighten your belts and get out of the wambulance. It doesn't violate this tricky policy, so just leave it alone and find something that is truly broken, say the topic of editing archives. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 19:40, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

They don't even have proper pixels, they're SVGs XD 222 talk 22:24, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
Dey lewk liek dis.
svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 22:29, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Chaos said it better than I could ever have. It's a picture, not a big deal. I've already argued for things like this in all those AEAE threads, read those if you don't agree with me. --Aburnett(Talk) 20:23, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Chaos. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 20:26, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

This is all a complete waste of time that could otherwise be spent performing more meaningful tasks on the wiki - Remove the crowns, or leave them as is, I don't care, but for crying out loud, don't turn this into another bloody AEAE debate. Andrew talk 21:11, October 5, 2010 (UTC)


Strong support - Per Chaos, it just helps tell you what some people are IF they choose to use it (and if you aren't, what real harm is that). If you don't like it, don't use it; no one is forcing to admire them. And like Andrew said "performing more meaningful tasks on the wiki", because removing every link to them would be quite a task. I'm sure we have [[MediaWiki:Wikia.css/hilite|more forceful discriminating features]] then some optional pixels. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 21:46, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Shields - Per my previous thoughts of their symbolising protection and aid. (In fact, they were already made by Karlis as well.) --

Helm of neitiznot (charged).png Azaz129 Crystal shield.png Talk Edits Contribs

21:57, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Where? Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 22:10, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
I personally dislike their retro design, but if they were made more modern I would support. 222 talk 22:20, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
At the bottom.-- 22:23, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
I also keep them here. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:21, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Sigh. AEAE again. Let me reiterate that it does NOT mean that I am equal to Azaz in every single way and there is nothing anyone can do about it. What it does say is that Azaz's opinion is not automatically counted as greater than mine simply because he is a crat. It can be weighted more if he has better arguments. That's all AEAE says. Nothing else. The huge misinterpretations of AEAE are mind-boggling, and perhaps stem from the slightly misleading policy name. --LiquidTalk 23:04, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'll just copy and paste this comment of mine from Forum:Crowns and AEAE to further expand on Chaos's/Evil's/Liquid's point - I have to agree that deleting the crowns was not really necessary. Technically, not all editors can be equal anyway because administrators/bureaucrats do have access to more tools than normal editors.

According to RS:AEAE: Administrators and bureaucrats are trusted members of the wiki community who are recognised for reliable edits and fairness in dealing with discussions or arguments. This does not give them authority over other players in overruling decisions; all major decisions of this kind (such as requesting adminship) must be made by the community, and not by an individual.

How does a picture of a crown give you authority over anything? It's just a symbol representing your status as an editor. New wikians won't necessarily assume that you are some kind of leader or something because you have a crown in your signature (or elsewhere). Once they read RS:AEAE, then they'll know that administrators/bureaucrats are not authoritative figures.  Tien  23:43, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support the removal of crowns - 'Tis rubbish crowns causing too much grief. Farming cape (t).png Lil cloud 9 Talk 23:03, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose changes - Because they aren't a problem. Never have been. Never will be. We have to waste our time with this stuff because we are bored, don't we? It's ridiculous. Isn't this the second time in a year we've had this discussion? And they aren't shaped like crowns. They are shaped like viking helmets.Dave Lopo 01:35, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

I thought viking helmets didn't have those horns? LordDarkPhantom 21:21, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Afaik, rollbacks and custodians also have crowns. Make one for normal users and be done with it. Seriously, it's just a crown. It looks cool. That's about it. Why are we wasting time these small issues? LordDarkPhantom 21:21, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Because some people are complaining about crowns and AEAE. 222 talk 04:50, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

If we hate crowns so much...

Crowns Shields
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/3265/botshield.png Bot
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1535/bureaucratshield.png Bureaucrat
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3457/custodianshield.png Custodian
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3293/rollbackshield.png Rollback
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7869/sysopshield.png Sysop (Admin)
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8775/usershield.png User

All my work, based off the previous colour schemes. These are uploaded as png because imageshack doesn't support svgs. 222 talk 10:36, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

What's the difference? Just keep the crowns since they fit the mod crowns bad_fetustalk 11:27, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
And THAT is the number two reason to get rid of them. Number one being crowns represent monarchy and authority.--Degenret01 19:22, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
But we obviously aren't using the crowns to show other people that we overrule the wiki, and there's nothing wrong with fitting mod crowns. bad_fetustalk 14:01, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
But that's the view that some people will take, and even worse, it is "blingy", whether you like it or not, providing just another reason people want to be admins. The closer we make sysops to normal users, the more genuine sysops become. HaloTalk 14:44, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Seriously, nobody wants to be sysops because of some stupid image. bad_fetustalk 14:53, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
People want it because of that, the silver star, the hilite. The more things we can limit (obviously we can't remove the stars), the better off we are. HaloTalk 14:57, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Even if that is true, someone requesting sysop tools for the sake of being one is never going to be one. Therefore, that doesn't really change anything, but meh, if you hate them that much, I guess I don't really care, as I already stated, it's just a stupid image. bad_fetustalk 14:59, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Shield discussion

Change colours - I would change the colours so they matched the colour of the highlight text on the names; Cyan for B'Crats, Green for Sysops, Blue for regulars, Red for rollback, Etc RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 19:05, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Rollbacks arent highlighted... - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 19:52, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Change colours - Per Stelercus, it only makes sense. - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 19:52, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't remember saying anything about changing the colours. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 20:09, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I mean Gradiushero, 6am in the morning, gimme a break >_< - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 03:32, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Change colours - Per stelercus too. He's really on top of things here. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 20:22, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, what are you talking about? Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 20:26, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Meh colour change - The colours are fine. Sorry Stelercus. And I'm neutral on changing to shields. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 21:17, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

No, I really don't get why people are citing me for no apparent reason. Can somebody please explain what I said that is causing others to support something I've not expressed any opinion on? Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 01:50, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure myself. It was most likely Pharos's fault. He might of saw this on something like Special:WikiActivity and thought you were the one who put User:XxXxGradiusheroxXxX's message. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 01:54, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, something like that. Fault is such a harsh word....- [Pharos] Per stelercus 04:05, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
I don't mean it in a bad way. Everyone makes mistakes. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:25, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Seriously?!?!?!? - Could we grow up and throw these out already? Making a user one just acknowledges you are trying to make people who don't have another one feel good, which shows that you expect not having one means they would feel bad about it. (YES, that was a run-on!) Let's just remove the userboxes, so nobody has the potential to feel bad. They don't serve a purpose other than bragging rights. If you want something, make a category, but active admins already exists, so I think we are good. This argument will continue to rear it's ugly head in many different formats, so let's just get rid of it now. HaloTalk 21:54, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

That was degen's idea, he said because regular users did not get a crown it was not AEAE so one was made. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 21:56, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, exactly. I was only doing what Degen wanted, to make every "fair". So now you change sides and oppose me for having a user one? Make up your mind. Personally, I hate the user shield, because it is pointless and the yellow colour scheme is ghastly. 222 talk 22:57, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
For the record, these are blatant lies and I have to wonder what would so motivate two such users too spread such a nasty damn lie about me. I did not tell anyone to make any other crowns, and I was strongly opposed to it. Don't you dare ever again to use my name to support something I did not endorse. That is a violation of the UTP.--Degenret01 03:28, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
I too would consider it a violation of UTP for being accused of having malicious intentions ("...motivate two such users too spread such a nasty damn lie..."). We only made a user crown to appease what you said here. Remember that I never said you asked us to make the crowns, only that what you said compelled some users to make one. 222 talk 03:47, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
You seem to completely miss the point of what Degen was saying; his argument was that the symbols were all stupid. Also, don't go arguing about the UTP. We don't need that immaturity here, quite frankly. ajr 03:50, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
I didn't start the argument with UTP, nor do I intend to continue this any further. 222 talk 04:00, October 7, 2010 (UTC)


This... - is a bunch of rubbish. As Halo stated, the userbox is made for bragging rights, and this issue WILL keep reappearing if not squashed before it is truly revived. We don't need any kind of symbolism, as we are not an army or platoon. Truth be told, AEAE can never truly be made here. Admins and b'crats have rights that other users can't have and are usually more respected and listened to by the community. It's life, deal with it. Honestly, I see this as a worker's strike in a sense, the "workers" (and I know we all work on the wiki, just listen) of regular users want to feel elavated to the "higher level" of "supervisors" that is admin/b'crat. In all truths, that's what ranks are, we supervise the general "wiki plant" that we all work in, we fire(block) the lazy or troublesome employees(trolls), we listen to the general populace(admin requests) and we take questions and make friendships and bonds(talk pages, the clan chat, etc).

Overall, this entire issue is causing more trouble than it is worth, so it should just as well be exterminated. We already have categories for users, sysops, etc, and should just as well delete these damned images that are throwing people into frenzies and art contests. We are a wiki. We are here to inform, and that should be our main goal and point of interest for the most part. Community is important, but is destroying it with debates like this really worth it when we can delete all this rubbish and build it up? We are not communist, nor is life fair. That's just how the world is I'm afraid. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 22:47, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

The userbox was never intended for bragging rights, and shouldn't be viewed as such. It was made for informative purposes, which has been corrupted by a few power-hungry users and others who think it has no purpose other than to brag about. Also, this "bunch of rubbish" was started by editors with the viewpoint you are supporting - that is, to remove the crowns/shield/whatever; whereas I am supporting the status quo, because I find nothing wrong with the current system. 222 talk 22:57, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
These userboxes, like hilites, were invented solely for bragging rights. It shouldn't matter what rights you have, and it should have no effect on your interaction with other editors. ajr 23:06, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
The hilites I'm fine with. It's a color, which is varying wavelengths hitting your pupils and registering in your mind as a color. Hardly any sysops use the hilite option in their sig anyways (mine is green, not the exact coding for sysop green). The crowns are for bragging rights, and that's the only practical application. I say we either say delete them or keep them and never have this wambulance conversation ever occur again. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 23:10, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - For the same reason as the crowns, what ever the picture is it will be used the same way. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 05:23, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Why cant we have something simple like Admin   Swizz Talk   Events!   16:11, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Bcus admins and crats aren't clearly enough "better" than other users, and they can't be honored as much?
Ok, just joking, but it is because it would be clearer that they can help u with things requiring sysops. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 18:25, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Replace image - With plain text letters, maybe coloured with (inline or not) CSS. To be honest I was not gaf-ing on crowns but I see the point that Degen and Ajr raise. The userbox is useful (e.g. if you happen to arrive at a userpage via Special:Random/user) so you can tell an admin/other usergroup at a glance but the image is bad; a blue A/B/C etc will suffice. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 16:54, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Delete all - But the userboxes should stay, as people will have to know they can ask users if they wanna delete a page etc. It should just at least NOT be a crown like a ruler has. Shields is ok to me. I personally oppose the crowns, or any "i am better and i place this userbox on my page to show it off" things, and i am not planning to put it on my page(although i am obsessed with userboxes), but i can imagine people like to do those things. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 18:25, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Why? RS:AR was invented for a reason. ajr 18:26, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Good point. Changed to Delete all including the userboxes and colors of names - per it all being showoff stuff. About the colors: It has absolutely no use to know an admin or crat edited the page. Ajr and degenret(probably more) show the good example, and i don't see any problems happening. The only thing that would be useful to keep is bot colors, because then you will see it is (semi) automated, which i find useful to know.(different user colors are seen here) JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:00, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose shields - Seriously? How is this supposed to be any different from crowns? They're both groups of pixels that mark some users as different. I really don't see why people prefer shields to crowns. --LiquidTalk 01:45, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Because of the stereotype tht if someone has a golden hat with shiny rocks in it (or if they just see the shape, such as the ingame Party Hat which provides no stats, they assume it is put as a way to say "1'm b3ttar than u lololololol!!!!11!" They'd rather see a piece of metal meant to protect anyone who can swing a hammer. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 19:40, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
Porn is also "a group of pixels", but we still don't really want that on this wiki... so the comment about a group of pixels is really bs. The problem is the thought behind it. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 17:59, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Idea - What about blank runes with letters (B, A, F, R, whatever other usergroup initials there are) in the middle of them? Or simply use runes to correspond with different groups? Law/ soul for bureaucrats/ administrators, cosmic for forumadmins, blood for rollbacks, etc... Something like that. The svgs that we have of them would look nice in userboxes. Since people would, apparently, look at viking helmets as a sign of power, I doubt they would do the same with runes. Dave Lopo 22:32, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support crowns - This is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. There is no good reason to change the crowns. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 07:00, October 16, 2010 (UTC) 

Well, there is. Crowns are for rulers, and there are no rulers of this wiki. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:00, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
While it is true that a crown denotes royalty, that is not the case in the context of the wiki. On a forum, should the moderators be given crown images next to their names, I doubt a new user would assume the moderators are "better" than they are, just that they have additional tools for moderating the forums. Being an administrator myself has no effect on my opinion on this matter, as I felt this way long before my RFA. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 21:05, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
Well, personally, just because of the crowns i did think admins were the leaders when i just started here... JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:28, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Remove usergroup colors

Discussion moved to Forum:Remove usergroup hilites. HaloTalk 21:49, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Request for closure - As crowns/userboxes have been implemented and such, I think we can close this now. HaloTalk 01:11, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

What? the boxes and crowns were there before this thread, so that is no reason to close it "because they have been implemented"... Could u plz explain it a bit more? JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 11:54, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
This request for closure is complete A user has requested closure for Usergroup Crowns. Request complete. The reason given was: Per above.

--中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 02:41, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - As the userboxes and crowns have been added for custodians and users, there is no point in this remaining open. HaloTalk 17:42, November 15, 2010 (UTC)