Forum:Updating Style guide policy of "case"

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Forums: Yew Grove > Updating Style guide policy of "case"
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This thread was archived on 27 November 2018 by IsobelJ.

Current policy

As we are editing pages for the upcoming Mining and Smithing rework. We've come across some sticky situations regard naming conventions. Here is the current policy regarding "case" and naming conventions:

  • Older item and monster names are normal nouns, always being lowercase. For newer items, this is not the case however, and the exact casing as used in-game should be used on articles and in article names for all items and monster names, e.g., helm of neitiznot and Banner of Armadyl are correct, but helm of Neitiznot and banner of armadyl are incorrect.
  • All place names, NPC names, quest names, task names, (etc) and skills are proper nouns - always uppercase, per ingame (also certain monsters, like Sigmund, Nomad, King Black Dragon ("the King Black Dragon is a black dragon")).
  • Care is to be taken in certain cases, in places where the name is a verb, like mining, smithing, fletching, etc. "The queen can be smooshed by mining the pillar, requiring level 10 Mining."
— RS:Style Guide - RS:Style Guide

The issue

The issue at hand is what exactly "Older item and monster names" means and if it should really be included in the policy.

This part of the style guide was last updated 11 November 2013. This was right just after the release of RS3. Clearly, 5 years later we still have #InconsistancyScape due to Jagex. However, that shouldn't stop us from silly mistakes.

The proposal

With the policy referring to a vague time frame as opposed to giving clear instruction, I submit this change to the one line:

  • Items and generalized monster names (i.e dragons, ghasts, nature rune, or air rune) should follow sentence capitalization structure and should be considered normal nouns, always being lowercase. One should also use common sense, e.g. helm of neitiznot and Banner of Armadyl are correct, but helm of Neitiznot and banner of armadyl are incorrect.
  • Article names, and file names must follow in-game capitalization.
  • All place names, NPC names, quest names, task names, (etc) and skills are proper nouns - always uppercase, per ingame (also certain monsters, like Sigmund, Nomad, King Black Dragon ("the King Black Dragon is a black dragon")).
  • Care is to be taken in certain cases, in places where the name is a verb, like mining, smithing, fletching, etc. "The queen can be smooshed by mining the pillar, requiring level 10 Mining."

Yours truly,

RuneMetrics icon.png Tyler JarretTalkLight animica.png 23:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - Why are we using top level headers? :o Also why not just use ingame capitalization for everything? I usually write something like "High Level Alchemy can be cast with 5 Fire runes and 1 Nature rune, or with a Lava battlestaff and 1 Nature rune." My rule of thumb is that what is common sense is often debatable (despite calling for common sense in a bunch of my thread closures). I like line in the sand rules. --LiquidTalk 00:22, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Support - I think that rather than defining some sort of date, just remove reference to a date, and actually talk about inconsistencies. The use of "older" was always a poor idea so this is much better.

Here's some draft text I wrote up to replace that one bullet point from before the thread was updated.

"Page names should always be at the exact in-game name of the subject, except when multiple subjects have the same name (and thus disambiguation parentheses are required)."
"Sometimes technical restrictions of MediaWiki prevent pages being at the correct name, for example the subject name does not begin with a capital letter (page names always begin with a capital), the subject name includes a "/" (implying a subpage relationship (example)), the subject name includes a character that cannot be used in page names (including, but not limited to, | ? #), or the subject begins with a string that would be put the page in the wrong namespace (e.g. Project: RuneScape: File: User: etc (example)). In such cases, pages should be at the same name (for false subpages), or replace the problem character(s) with a substitute/leave it out (for others - generally replace "|" with "-", and ":" in namespaces with "-"; leave out # and ?); in all cases DISPLAYTITLE and Template:Restricted title should be used to mark the page as such."
"Item and monster names almost always begin with a capital letter in-game. In prose, this can and usually should be made lowercase (including in links) if the word is not a proper noun. Common sense and examples from similar/related items should be used to provide additional cues on if the word should be considered a proper noun, e.g. augmented abyssal whip does not capitalise "abyssal" so abyssal whip should be considered a normal noun."
"Inconsistencies with in-game casing between similar items is not uncommon, however, so in such cases both versions are considered correct - however the version that makes the sentence easier to read is generally preferred (this almost always means lowercase). For example, augmented noxious scythe, noxious scythe (blood) and Augmented Noxious scythe (Blood) are named as such in-game, giving inconsistency with both "noxious" and "blood"; it can be referred to as "Augmented Noxious scythe (Blood)" or "augmented noxious scythe (blood)". However, be careful of proper nouns mixed in with inconsistencies; for example Augmented Off-hand Ascension crossbow (Blood): "Ascension" is still a proper noun so "Augmented Off-hand Ascension crossbow (Blood)" or "augmented off-hand Ascension crossbow (blood)" can be used."
Redirects should be used to cover pages that are not already all lowercase, or have inconsistent or unusual capitalisation.

I wasn't going to post it but liquid is bad :D Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 00:27, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Added a bit on technical restriction of page titles. Though, this is mentioned elsewhere (as is the specification of page names matching exact titles). Also added a bit on redirects. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 16:19, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Support/Comment - The issue here is "what is in-game capitalisation". A fire rune is spelt "Fire rune" in-game, but it's illogical to say: "High Level Alchemy requires 5 Fire runes". Every item starts with a capital letter in game because that's how it's formatted, so I think point #2 needs some refinement regarding this. Of course, there are exceptions (eg: Arrav's heart), but this falls under UCS. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 00:28, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Comment - I'm fine with getting rid of the "Older item and monster names" part, but I'm not sold on the replacement. First off, it could probably do a better job of clarifying why the examples are the way they are.

The way it's written also suggests no item names should be considered proper nouns - I'm not a fan of that in regards to items like Silverlight and Bouncy. And by explicitly saying monster names aren't always proper nouns but not saying the same for NPC names, we're kinda sorta left with a style guide that says "man", "green dragon", "Man" and "Green dragon" are correct but discourages "Man" and "Green dragon" and calls "man" and "green dragon" incorrect. I'd prefer something like "Generalised item, scenery, monster or NPC names" over "Items and generalised monster names". I'd probably remove the parts about NPC and monster names from the third line too.

Also, I'm not sure we need to add the line about page names - article names are already covered by another section, and file names are covered by RS:IMP -Hourglass (2011 Hallowe'en event) detail.png I Am Fendse Talk III The Spark.png- 01:38, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Support/comment - While I'm with Liquid on preferring "line in the sand" rules, such is the nature of language that it largely relies on context. Common sense is the most logical route to go here per gaz and dro Superiosity the WikianQuick chat button.png : Sup 01:50, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Closed - While there wasn't much direct discussion of Gaz's draft text, it seems to satisfy everyone's concerns about the misleading use of "older item and monsters" and clarifies why some things are capitalised and why others shouldn't be. I've replaced the text in the Case section of the style guide and also updated some of the Article titles section as Gaz suggested. Magic logs detail.pngIsobelJTalk page 19:00, 27 November 2018 (UTC)