Forum:Unfair kicking

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This thread was archived on 22 August 2009 by Azaz129.

Earlier in the clan chat, i told a joke which i know now was probably in bad taste (it wasn't gross or anything). But before anyone said anything, i was kicked. A second later, Vimes pm'ed me and told me to "grow up". I asked Vimes later and he said i didnt need a warning. Shouldn't i have gotten a warning for this instead of an automatic kick?

Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 18:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I do believe you should've gotten a warning. Ranked people really need to get less angry. ShinyUnown T | C | E 18:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I believe a warning is almost always necessary. If we were talking about a stranger who just came in and starting spamming, swearing, insulting people, etc. then that is an obvious troll or griefer (however you classify these people), and I would kick them myself with no warning. But Mike is a regular, and it is my firm belief that kicking should be a last resort (with the exception of a ban, which would be given for regular and unapologetic offenders). It's a bit like slamming the phone down on someone because you didn't like one thing they said, and I consider that the height of bad manners.
In this case, the joke quoted wasn't that bad - the content was pretty mild unless you're offended by jokes about dead people (and even though I remain a big Jacko fan, even I saw the funny side). There was nothing to suggest that Mike was going to say anything worse, and anyone who was offended by what he did say could have simply told him so. This would have established where people perceive the boundaries to be, and the conversation could have continued along other lines.
2009-08-11_Vimes_being_persecuted.png
I am worried that Vimes thinks this is personal against him, and I want to go on record as saying that (from me at least) that is absolutely not the case. If I were to see Christine (for example) kicking someone for something as small as this, I would be the first to tell them so, as I do believe it to be an abuse of power - and nobody on this wiki is above being asked to justify their actions and their reasons for doing them. That's why this discussion is here. A warning should have been given, in my opinion. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 19:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to know exactly what Mike said before adding my two cents. Andrew talk 19:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure myself what happened in this case but recently I have been leaving the Chat because I don't like what it's become, and it's not due to anyone I can't kick myself. Some of the administrators are making this chat very difficult to be in.

Bonziiznob Talk

19:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Per Soldier,I'd like to hear what was so bad that it automatically validated a kick on an active contributor to the wiki,who didn't even get a warning. --

Water Wave icon.png
Captain Sciz
TalkEditsHiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

19:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is the joke: The Lord gave Farrah Fawcett 1 wish when she died. She wished that all children in the world would be safe! The Lord granted her wish and killed Michael Jackson. Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 19:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, now I understand why you were kicked. That wasn't funny at all and I might've kicked for that as well, but then again, a warning never hurts. Andrew talk 19:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
How the eph is that kickable? http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 20:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
It was offensive to at least some people. Simple as that. I'm not so sure that a warningless kick was called for, but it was still definitely not the best thing to say. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!Loon is best buttlord 21:41, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Chia who was this offencive to? both the people in the joke are no longer living so i doubt very much that they can take offence Slayer Timwac talk Fire cape.png 08:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Any allocation of their family members, their friends, their fans, or anyone else who would be prone to taking offense. Don't underestimate how easy it can be to legitimately offend people. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!Loon is best buttlord 23:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, i know now i shouldnt have said it, but there was no warning at all. Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 19:45, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't think it was funny but it wasn't offensive, so I don't have any clue why you were kicked. This is definitely an abuse of power. ShinyUnown T | C | E 19:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Maybe they were just having a bad day. http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 20:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I don't like it when people disrespect those that have recently died. No matter what the person has done in their life, the person should still be a bit respected after they die. The family of Michael is most likely going through a lot of stress, and I feel that, although the joke as a bit harsh an uncalled for, I also feel that a warning should have happened before a kick. ~MuzTalk 20:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

It takes 22.3 years for someones death to become funny Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 20:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I was there at the time. In my opinion, while the joke was a little distasteful, alone its not a kickable offence. Also, as you are a regular in the CC and before then had no warnings to your name then, and that you expressed your regret for the action in PM to me after, I believe only a warning was needed. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 21:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

The joke is disrespectful and untasteful, but still there should be a warning for a kick... — Enigma 21:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

It's quite funny. Blush But what do you want us to do now? It wasn't a permanent kick. Miasmic Blitz icon.png Hapi007 Talk! Sign! . 12:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Not everything requires a warning. For example, if someone made a picture of a penis in the clan chat then they would obviously know that it's inappropriate and could easily offend someone. Warnings are meant for minor incidents and for incidents where the offender doesn't understand that what they are doing is wrong. This penis picture incident actually happened, and before I had a chance to kick them another sysop said, "That's your warning". I can understand that warning approach, but you can't always be so soft on rule-breaking. I think that Vimes understood that the joke that Mike told everyone was inappropriate and could potentially offend people so he went ahead and kicked. This shouldn't be called power abuse.. I think this one incident is being blown out of proportion. Andrew talk 18:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Seems kickable to me - I don't really think that joke was in the best of taste considering the subject matter. Sure you can argue either side, and whether or not a warning was deserved, but it's just a kick. You made a joke that crossed the line in Vimes' opinion and he kicked you. Vimes made a judgment call to kick instead of just warn. Admins have to make that call at some point. Not every joke is appropriate for the CC. I don't think a kick is necessarily a big deal, just a way for one to check oneself before one wrecks oneself. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 20:38, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - There is an ongoing discussion about lowering Vimescarrot's rank to Lieutenant here. Dragon claw.png Zezzima Talk Edit # SkillsFile:Turmoil.gif|Yay turmoil! 20:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC) P.S. I get the joke but who's Farrah Fawcett?

Farrah Fawcett was an actress from Charlie's Angels who died the same day as Michael Jackson. Her death was much overlooked because Jackson was more famous, and his death was a bigger deal in the eyes of the media and the public. I still think the joke was pretty mild, but some other people seem to disagree.  :-| Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Being kicked isn't that bad. But I do think that people should get a warning before they are kicked (unless that person has been warned for previous, separate, offensive cases; I don't think Mike falls into that category, so I believe he should just have been warned).  Tien  01:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

He does. He has been warned - and kicked - for crude humour and offensive topics several times. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 03:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
No offense d4k, but that's bull. I've been kicked once in the past by Karilz for an entirely different reason, and there's quite a few people who can vouch for that.

Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 17:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment To be honest, I believe a kick was appropriate. Would I have kicked? Probably not. But I wouldn't object to a kick, either. Generally, if any entity out there could (knowingly) be offended by a remark or joke, any non-permanent action is appropriate. From a player moderator point of view, that was a reportable offense. Again, I am not saying that I personally would have reported, kicked, or even issued a warning; fact is fact, and the remark can, without question, be considered offensive. As such, I would be very disappointed to see this ordeal used against Vimescarrot in any form or fashion.

Mike, you said yourself that the remark was in bad taste. Yes, it was. I do not believe that your intentions were bad; I did get a chuckle out of it, myself. Regardless, you said what you said, and you can't take it back. You are best off taking responsibility for your actions—even if it's shoved in your face in the form of a kick—and not making the same mistake again. Holding this matter against the person who held you responsible for your actions is not ethical; I personally view it as vengeful retaliation. Supertech1 TCE 03:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Clarification: I am not saying that I approve of Vimescarrot's rank in the channel. That is a separate discussion which I have not yet reviewed. Supertech1 TCE 03:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

A ranked person told me to post it in the yew grove because of possible abuse of power, this has nothing to do with revenge =/

Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 14:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment This is definitely an abuse of power that joke may been slightly disrespectful but this did not deserve a kick and if someone did not like the joke they should have said so and mike would not have told another. but the fact is that the admin took the matter into his own hands and kicked straight away, i myself will not kick because I do not like what is being said in the chat room i will only kick if other people do not like what is being said and the person persists in saying these things (Mike said one joke) so i think this was not kick worthy. Slayer Timwac talk Fire cape.png 14:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC) 14:39, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Hmm...I personally don't like the joke(if you can call it that),and I'm not one of those die-hard Michael Jackson fans.(Heck,I don't even ever remember hearing his music) Mike,you would be will taught to not make jokes about recently deceased persons,but I do believe Vimes should have given you a warning. Let this be a message to us all. Watch what you say in the CC when Vimes is there. >.> <.< --

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Captain Sciz
TalkEditsHiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

03:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Although I wouldn't really care about the joke, I don't think what Vimescarrot did was power abuse, but I agree he should have given a warning, as it was a very minor problem. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 22:04, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

My two cents: That joke was inappropriate and distasteful (it is not simply a joke about dead people; it's a sexual joke), but not enough for an immediate kick. I would have warned him. Butterman62 (talk) 05:27, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I see no reason for that kick. To me, kicking people should be used as a preventitive instead of punishment. By warning first, you discover whether the person is trying to be disruptive or just made one bad judgment. Nothing as gained by kicking mike. Based his response on here I believe that if he was warned he would have been much more careful from then on. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 06:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I find that joke offensive. It's disrespectful to the dead for one, and for two, that's MIKE (and many other people)'s opinion that MJ did that (he obviously believes it since he's the one telling the joke). Michael Jackson was proven innocent, so such jokes are disrespectful and harsh, no matter when they are told. It's a matter of opinion on if the joke is 'funny' or not. The people who think it's funny = the people who think he was a rapist. The people who find it offensive = the people who think he wasn't a rapist. I'm part of the second group. It doesn't matter how many people think it's offensive or not, if ONE person thinks it's offensive, then the joke-teller should be punished. NOW WAIT, by punished, I mean scolded first (by giving a warning), then kicked if they continue on or fight. In a nutshell: Warnings should be given to offensive jokes, no matter how offensive they are or they aren't. If it's offensive = punishment (warning, kick). --Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 09:47, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...if my totally harmless 69 joke I made in March and had been kicked for was taken to the YG, this could have had consensus long ago... 21:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I have been monitoring a runescape chat for nearly 2 years now. In all this time i have only had to use the kick option a handfull of times, and so have all the other chat moderators. If you feel the need to use the kick option daily/weekly you should consider stepping down as moderator, because you clearly don't fit into the target user group of the chat. -- Ruderion (Talk) Farming cape (t).png 13:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

That's rubbish. It doesn't matter if you are in a private clan chat or talking in the middle of varrock. Rules are rules and you are not immune from being reported if you break them in a clan chat. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 13:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Some 'crat needs to give Vimes a warning already. This is why the true form of communism truly would never work. Decisions made by the community is a political quagmire. Some one please take actions instead of discussions. A warning should not be that difficult to issue is it? Obviously in the CC it might be. Sorry for the outburst on this situation. It just seems to be getting ridiculous something would drag out this long. Strength-icon.png Hammer2092 Time |KOTA Bandos godsword.png 18:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)