Forum:The passphrase

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This thread was archived on 20 December 2012 by Liquidhelium.

Is bullshit. I propose that we remove it. (wszx) 01:39, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

Oppose - It is rather useful in ensuring someone actually reads the rules. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 01:42, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

What's a passphrase? --Iiii I I I 01:43, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

It's something that is on RS:CC to ensure someone actually reads the rules. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 01:45, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
Can't you just command-F "passphrase" when asked for it instead of reading the whole thing? --Iiii I I I 01:51, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
Stop spilling the secrets! Next thing you know they'll be finding the secret phrase on the trouble brewing page! What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 02:01, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - You haven't offered any argument whatsoever for why it should be removed. I know of other chats in RuneScape which also do this to ensure those who join have read the rules What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 01:49, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

I did so. Its being bullshit is a reason. It's a very compelling reason, actually. (wszx) 01:52, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
Why is it bullshit then? Your statement to me is not an argument for removing it at all What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 02:01, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
Seeing as others have pointed out more valid reasons for why it should be removed, I'm not going to take a stance on this. I commented purely because there was no compelling argument to take any action, and this has been supplied by others What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 02:12, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
Are you not capable of forming your own opinion about something? If you understood what he was talking about then you should be able to judge it for yourself. Henneyj 00:29, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
It's a clan matter. As I am not part of the clan I do not actively partake in discussions about the clan unless the proposal is completely stupid, which this happened to be until the likes of Rag and Haidro did a better job explaining why than wszx did What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 01:22, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Support - I agree that it is bullshit. It implies an immediate and underlying distrust of new users when you have to micro manage them by for example asking them to find a passphrase in the rules. Raglough (talk) 02:05, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the indent I can't remember how to edit that :/ Raglough (talk) 02:06, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Support - This is absolutely ridiculous. In no way does this passphrase benefit anything in anyway. Users do not even have to read RS:CC to enter the Clan Chat, but it is suggested that they do. If they break the rules, it's their fault for not reading the rules. Adding a passphrase is not the solution to this problem. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 02:10, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Neutral - First of all, let me preface this by saying that I personally think it's bullshit, which is why I invite people upon request without directing them to the rules page. I may be slightly biased as one of the early passphrases was "Liquid is a noob," but the point remains that I do not believe it's effective. It's very easy to miss the passphrase if you're reading too quickly, and no one but me remembers the rules anyway. Gareth knows that I don't tell people to go read the rules, and so far he hasn't bitten my head off for it.

However, I'm not entirely in support of removing the passphrase completely. Perhaps a sentence from the person being invited saying that he has common sense and knows general rules of clan chats would be good, as I our rules are really more or less common sense anyway. --LiquidTalk 02:51, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Link to where the community agreed to a passphrase please? Otherwise it can be ignored.--Degenret01 (talk) 03:08, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. When I invite people I just tell them "Don't be a dick, be helpful, do not spam, be cool to all in chat"--Degenret01 (talk) 03:11, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
I believe it was one of those things that was done unilaterally. (Lots of minor clan chat stuff was done that way because no one was against it and it was too small to bother with a discussion.) Granted, it's not a requirement, since many people, such as myself, ignore it, and I've never seen someone refuse to invite someone for lack of the phrase. However, it's just there for people who do choose to use it. --LiquidTalk 03:14, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
I've actually witnessed twice two people who had said they knew the rules, but didn't know the passphrase. I don't know what happened (if they got invited or not), but I don't recall someone saying "Oh I'll invite you anyway". HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 03:16, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Support - I don't even play anymore, but having a passphrase to be invited into anything on the wiki is ridiculous. This isn't an ASIO office, its the wiki's chat channel in-game. 222 talk 08:01, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Support - If someone says they've read the rules and haven't they don't have a whole lot to fall back on if they break them. Feel free to question someone further if you aren't convinced but a passphrase isn't necessary. cqm 11:20, 13 Dec 2012 (UTC) (UTC)

Support - This is kind of ridiculous. If people break the rules, it's their own fault for not reading them. Also, in this scenario, one only has to read half the rules to get the passphrase. Besides, those who have read the rules before the phrase was added, or didn't notice it when reading would have no idea where to go looking for one. It doesn't solve anything (it's pretty hilarious though). User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 18:56, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Support - Yeah, it's really not needed. Blaze_fire.png12.png 19:09, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - Anything that makes it harder for new users to get access to the wiki to contribute is a good thing. The fewer editors there are, the more valuable each individual editor is. Its basic economics! You guys are fools for not understanding this. In fact, I wish we could make the passphrase longer and harder, even though I don't actually know what it is, precisely. Maybe we could add some accented characters in there to really put these new users through a loop. Food for thought. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 22:57, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

You know this is for the clan chat and not the wiki itself, right? cqm 23:46, 13 Dec 2012 (UTC) (UTC)
I think he's trolling. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 23:47, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
No, he's not. --Iiii I I I 23:49, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
The fact that I clearly did not understand what I was opposing does not in any way mar the confidence and fortitude with which I oppose it. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 01:24, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
You're saying you're fiercely opposing for the sake of fiercely opposing. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 10:42, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
Spongebob.jpg
Psycho for President 2016 - [Pharos] 12:16, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
You can't afford me. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 01:42, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - Although we should place a level of trust on our users, they should know the passphrase just by reading the rules at the casually would. There is no harm in checking. RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 14:56, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Strong Support - As an example to why we should remove it, I was once training in the Keldagrim Lava Flow Mine when we had a new user join the CC. When he was asked the passphrase, I thought those involved were simply trolling the user, since I had no idea we even had one. In fact, up until now, I thought it was a joke (I just now read it...not funny, guys) and that it was some sort of RS Wiki meme! Now, I know the wiki prides itself on its versatile userbase, but this is just flat-out trolling, IMO. I say that part about the userbase because when I joined the wiki, everything was about efficiency and almost no jokes (other than the personal images that were allowed back then). Nowadays, I see a bunch of goofing around and trolling for lulz. Maybe some of you guys don't mind that, but I know I do. Personally, I see the passphrase as a joke, both in that it shouldn't be there and that I didn't know it WAS there. Remove it, please. 7kyt1iT.gif --WINE OF GOOD HEALTH (Actually Stinko) 16:14, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - As the person who originally added it, I feel obligated to give my original reasoning. First, links:

I don't remember who suggested the phrase as said in the log (possibly said in the clan chat so no logs of that), but I believe it was after a slew of people who just did not know that we were the official clan of the good RuneScape Wiki asked to join, or some such. Anyway, my reasoning is largely given in the cut log: an easy way to make sure that people read the rules. Also, with the addition of the activity requirement, making people aware that [the requirement] exists, and how to not be kicked if you are going inactive for a longer period. Also, it makes sure they know where to find the rules so they can be directed back there - should they ask about how ranks work, the citadel, [[RS:CC/A|the avatar]], or whatever, since all related clan chat pages are explained at the bottom of the main RS:CC.

Nowadays I generally ask any invitees if they have anything to tell me - if they know the phrase they then state it, and if they do not I ask them for one of the rules as listed on the page (usually 2 or 3, since they're 2 words and easiest to remember). I know others pester for the phrase far too much, and I try to discourage that when I see it. My ultimate goal is to make sure invitees are aware of the rules - and adding the phrase makes it easier to tell if they have read them thoroughly or just glanced at them. The goal is not to troll people or force them into constantly rereading the rules - but if someone can instantly state the phrase when asked then it is a much quicker and easier invitation process than having to explain where to find the rules each time.

(Since the EoC the rate of invitees who can state the phrase instantly when asked has gone up massively, at least in the cases of people PMing me to join.) Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 17:13, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Psycho. When I joined this wiki I didn't read all the rules, and as you all know I've been nothing but trouble. The fact that I didn't know all the rules when I started out here made all my other contributions completely pointless. Also there is zero space to learn what the rules are later on, so this is a great way to prevent troublemakers such as myself from joining our community. I think it's great that we're forcing people to read all rules first before allowing them to join the CC, because then we can enforce the rules. Of course we wouldn't be able to enforce the rules if people wouldn't have read them, just like how the police can't enforce the law when people don't read the law first themselves. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 12:38, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

I highly doubt that you actually read your country's laws. Lol bad_fetustalk 16:52, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
The Netherlands have no laws. Ronan Talk 22:22, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
Most laws are stupid anyway. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 07:41, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
I avoid learning anything about laws so I can't be held accountable for any that I break. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 01:42, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - While the passphrase does not assure that new recruits have thoroughly and extensively perused the rules, it does require them to at least visit the page. Any small measure taken to ensure that recruits are more informed about our expectations is a good one, and should not be removed. Also, the passcode, which of often odd, allows us to introduce newer users to our eccentric humor.--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 21:49, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - Personally, I don't know why we ever stopped using that passphrase in the first place. Just telling them to read rule 3 is nothing, as they'll just read that. That page is there to be read, and having them find a passphrase forces them to read the entire article. If all we wanted was for them to read the rules, we'd just get them to list them, or I would anyway.  Golden warpriest of Zamorak helm.png Wingcap Firemaking master cape.png 21:56, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - Per above. However, I wonder if anyone will use "Ctrl+F" to search the whole passage to find the passphrase, which will ruin its function. Explore and enjoy the world! TIMMMO Work it with all my heart!++Discuss Sign 23:42, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - The Runescape Wiki: Our editors can code in java; we can't work out how to make it hard for people to Ctrl+F a section of the text. - [Pharos] 11:54, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Support - I think the idea makes sense, but the implementation is counter-intuitive. In this case, yes, people will be forced to at least visit the page. However, I think that having a passphrase to find will make even some of the players that would normally read through the rules try and outsmart us by just skimming through or searching. Basically, I think what Degen^ is doing is the most effective and coincidentally less of a hassle. - [Pharos] 12:16, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Comment Right now it is optional if people ask for it and optional if they require it to invite someone. Not passing this proposal will not change that. To make this an actual 100% requirement will require it's own consensus.--Degenret01 (talk) 05:43, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. I'd rather it not be a hard requirement. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 13:48, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
I am not amenable to treating it as an option rather than as a requirement or not allowed at all. Often, corporals enjoy batting around prospective clanmembers and making them feel uncomfortable and confused. Several times I have tried to overcut corporals who are being difficult for newbies because I know, were I in their shoes, I would be turned off to the clan and leave. It is further a problem when someone is trying to be recruited and there are several people, of various ranks, commenting and trying to give direction to the newbie. For example, the other day a double-chevron spent several minutes prodding the newbie to find the passphrase although he was at GWD and was not himself going to recruit. So someone else had to do it. (Obnoxious corporals are actually a systemic issue that warrants separate discussion but it is not the focus of this thread.) The passphrase essentially serves as a wiki-sanctioned reason for some corporals to be smug and cryptic to newbies. (wszx) 23:04, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - RE: Ctrl-f - The original did not include an obvious word that would make it easy to ctrl-f. It was later changed to one more clear about the purpose of the phrase, but easier to ctrl-f (I was not in the clan chat at the time however). A lot of people asking to join the clan don't know where our rules are listed (again, less so recently, but still noticeable). If an invitee is told where the page is (I find https://runescape.wiki/w/RuneScape:Clan_Chat is the easiest way to direct them), go there then ctrl-f the passphrase - or find it by actually reading the page, or don't find it and correctly state whatever rule I ask for - my aim was met as they are on the rules page. While yes, ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the rules, making sure people, at the very least, know where the rules are I think is a common courtesy - especially for the stuff that isn't just common sense, like (as I said above) how ranks work, the activity requirement, how to use the citadel, how to use the avatar, etc. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 13:48, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - "making sure people, at the very least, know where the rules are I think is a common courtesy" is fair enough. I can handle having a passphrase in this respect but strongly oppose it being a requirement for new members to join the Clan. However as per Degen above that is not what this thread is about so I'll save that for another day. Raglough (talk) 20:56, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Closed - There is no consensus to do anything with the passphrase at this time. Therefore, it will remain in its current state. It will act as a tool available for those who wish to utilize it to make sure that people have read the rules. Ranks who do not wish to utilize the passphrase do not have to. I will, however, remind the ranks to be civil to recruits, and to not scare them away by being too mean. Also, be civil with each other and don't step on each others' toes (as in, if someone is going to invite someone without asking for the passphrase, don't give him a hard time about it, and if someone uses the passphrase, don't try to undermine it). --LiquidTalk 22:41, December 20, 2012 (UTC)