Forum:SwiftIRC RuneScape Wiki channel

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This thread was archived on 11 July 2010 by Gaz Lloyd.

Note:SwiftKit and SwiftIRC are two completely safe programs used by thousands of people. If you are here to moan, whine, or argue that SwiftKit and/or SwiftIRC is unsafe, full of keyloggers, a trojan-horse racetrack, or anything of the sort, please leave this thread right now. That has nothing to do with my proposal. This proposal is addressed to the players who do use the programs, do not have a problem with them safety-wise, and do think they are safe programs. If you do not use the programs, or do not think they are safe, then this proposal should have nothing to do with you, it does not affect you in any way.

I realize the notice above was too harsh, and I should not have dismissed anyone's opinions like that. I sincerely apologize, I was having a truly rough day by the end of the night, but I should not have brought that here to the wiki. Still, though, I stick by my point. Swift is a safe program, and any argument pointing out that it is not is rather pointless to this thread. This thread was proposed to ask players who do use Swift if they would like an IRC channel on it. To the players who don't use Swift, for whatever reason, your argument that it is unsafe is rather off-topic. This IRC channel should not affect you in any way, you are safe from the nonexistent dreaded lands of SwiftHack. You obviously have the right to post it, but please think this over before you do.


Hello. I'd like to request an official RuneScape Wiki channel on the SwiftIRC network on the following grounds.:

I've realized that SwiftKit is very, very popular among the playerbase nowadays.

Visiting the SwiftKit homepage I see that 11,000 players are using Swiftkit right now. Visiting the RuneScape homepage I see that there are currently 104,000 players online. Roughly 1/9 or 1/10 of current players are using Swiftkit. SwiftKit's website also claims to have 40,000 users daily.

With SwiftKit comes the IRC network, SwiftIRC.

Many SwiftKit users use SwiftIRC as way of talking to their friends in the same window they're playing RuneScape in. Their homepage claims to have 53,000 registered users (nicknames).

Because of the ease to talk to others while playing RuneScape, and the large amount of potential members/users on SwiftIRC, I'd like to ask the community: What would you think of a 2nd IRC chat, this time hosted on SwiftIRC?

If this proposal passes, then I'd like us to name the channel #wikia-runescape, same as our current freenode IRC channel.

I'd take responsibility as a channel op, and would recruit other community-approved ops early on (just in case I'm not around when needed).

I have already created and registered the #wikia-runescape channel under the wikia-runescape nickname. I have registered the following other nicknames so nobody in the future could create them to fool others into thinking they are ranks. If any would like to use them for other purposes other than placeholders, we can do that too. :

  • RSW
  • RS_Wiki
  • RS_W
  • wiki-runescape
  • wiki-rs
  • wikia-rs
  • wikirs
  • rs-wiki
  • rswiki
  • rs-wikia

If you can think of any other placeholders, feel free to register them. Note that an email address can only be used to register three nicknames. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - Discuss. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support - It doesn't hurt anyone at all. People will have swiftkit whether we "endorse" it or not. HaloTalk 07:47, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Why have an IRC channel for the game on a client that runs it when you can just talk in the official Off-Site Clan Chat?... Seems a bit overkill to me. Plus, Jagex itself does not approve of Swiftkit, Jagex states that they do not recommending using third party programs to communicate with RuneScape. Plus there have been reports in the past of accounts being hacked from Swiftkit, if they are valid or not I do not believe the wikia should endorse such a channel on something that has the availability to log your username and password. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 07:56, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Plenty of people use SK and they are good with it. I don't see it as an endorsement. It's just an easy way to have both IRC/RS in same window. Also, I'm not up to date with SK lately, but I'm pretty sure they can't log user/pass. I had a friend a while back that made his own client, and he worked with Jagex a lot, and they were fine with his client. It's not like SK is a big secret, if someone wants it, it's easy enough to google search. HaloTalk 08:01, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
By having an official OS extension of the wikia to SK the wikia is in a way endorsing it.

I quote, "King Runite, I would assume that you are talking about Swift Kit yes? Any piece of 3rd Party Software that interacts with RuneScape must follow a strict set of guidelines. Any 3rd party software that doesn't fit these guidelines is not allowed. Swiftkit, does follow these guidelines. So it is not against the rules to use. HOWEVER, we strongly urge players to consider the security of their accounts as it would be very easy for somebody to install a keylogger into such software and release it as an "update" for people to download. It is still at player's own risk if they choose to use 3rd party software. As for being censored, when you enter the RuneScape Forums and RuneScape game you agree that we can remove any content we deem inappropriate. Also, J-Mod's post do represent Jagex and whilst we may not always be 100% correct, generally what we say is the "bottom line". Cheers, ~ MMH ~" And... http://i40.tinypic.com/2mfc60.png xScoobsx Talk Contribs 08:06, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Also, it would very easy for SK to add a key logger and disguise it as an update. Things are not as hard as you think. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 08:07, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
I never said it couldn't be done. I just find it unlikely. HaloTalk 08:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

I got an edit conflict, so this is a reply to your first post, Scoob:

Why have an IRC channel for the game on a client that runs it when you can just talk in the official Off-Site Clan Chat?... Seems a bit overkill to me. So people can be in a different clan chat and talk to people from the wiki at the same time, if they'd like to.
Plus, Jagex itself does not approve of Swiftkit, Jagex states that they do not recommending using third party programs to communicate with RuneScape. Jagex has never said they do not approve of it, and in fact, they have even said that SwiftKit is legal and not against the Rules of RuneScape. I have all the proof I need on the Swiftkit article.
Plus there have been reports in the past of accounts being hacked from Swiftkit, if they are valid or not I do not believe the wikia should endorse such a channel on something that has the availability to log your username and password. If you are so concerned for the safety of the username/password of yourself and others on the wiki, then yourself and others should not be using SwiftKit, simple is that. If you have a problem with something, then it would only be common sense to stay as far away from it as possible. I am not asking you to download the program, I am not asking the rest of the wiki to download the program, I am not asking anyone to join the channel if they don't want to. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. If people want to join the channel, then great, more support for this proposal. If people don't want to join the channel, then fine, leave us be. For the record, you don't even have to download SwiftKit to use SwiftIRC, there is a SwiftIRC client on the SwiftIRC site. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 08:10, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I added a notice to the top regarding this "Swift___ is unsafe" argument. Please read it. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 08:17, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

You don't have the right to dismiss my opinion to this topic. So I suggest you take down that notice. And I am not moaning or whining, so take my opinions for what they are worth. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 16:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
I apologize, Scoob. I'm sorry for making that notice sound hostile, I shouldn't have dismissed your opinion like that. I've crossed it out, and written a new one for your argument and any others with the same. I stick by my point, however, as the "unsafe" argument has nothing to do with my proposal. Maybe if this thread was titled "Forum:Get all RSWikians to support using SwiftKit/IRC", then yeah, you'd have a valid argument, but this proposal asks something totally different, something which requires feedback from either Swift users or people who support Swift and think it is safe, not from Swiftnon-users or people who don't support Swift or don't think it is safe. I'm repeating myself now. I hope you see where I'm coming from. Again, I apologize for my unneeded hostility. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I read your notice, and that's why I'm commenting. Scoobs made a valid point, and, though the threat is unlikely, you don't have the right to make such a statement. Since this is a wiki, and we do seem to share some sort of wiki-opinion-equality-fairness that's hard to put words to, I think you should remove that statement. Leftiness 11:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
I've apologized and written a new statement.
Whether the threat of a hack is likely or not, that argument has no place on this thread unless someone can explain how. It is only common sense to not use Swift if one thinks it isn't safe. People shouldn't be opposing my proposal because they don't use or don't like Swift, that has nothing to do with the proposal. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - We do not need that many separate IRC channels. I believe we have 3 already? Also, in the days of tabbed browsing, it's not that hard to change tabs. 222 talk 11:17, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

3? I thought we had 1, #wikia-runescape on freenode. You might count #cvn-wikia-runescape on freenode as a channel, but nobody talks in there as we have #wikia-runescape a click away. The cvn is for anti-vandalism, not chatting. I don't think we have 3 channels... Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - We've had this discussion before. I agreed to it then, but I didn't realize that both channels would be dead. It was later decided that two channels was unnecessary as it split up the already very, very small active IRC users. There is absolutely no reason to need a bunch of dead channels again. Andrew talk 15:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - The irc rarely has any discussion in it nowadays (and half of it is just Rwojy and Ajraddatz calling each other nubs) and making another irc would just take users(or the amount left) away from the current one and not all of them have Swiftkit whcih would mean some would move and some wouldn't but then would leave because some of the people who they talked to have left so they don't do much in there.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 15:12, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

The IRC is unused, because it is not on SwiftIRC, and generally, only a very small percentage of people on Swiftkit actually know how to switch servers and make it automatic, etc RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 21:01, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
I know very well how to operate SwiftIRC, I'm in my own channel #Lil_Diriz_77 almost everyday. It is very similar to any other IRC network, and when in doubt, if someone doesn't know what commands to use or how to use it, get help on the SwiftIRC website or on the SwiftIRC wiki, both very helpful official resources. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
You don't realise as said above on 1/10 people use swiftkit, so if you are saying that it is not used because of swiftkit only really 1 or 2 people would probably use the irc if they didn't use swiftkit currently.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 03:11, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Slight Support - I'd just like to say I've been using SwiftKit for along time now, and I've never encountered any problems. A lot of people have been finding the CC immature recently and having a SwiftKit IRC channel of our own where we can have uncensored conversations whilst still keeping flaming and trolling low would be ideal but unlikely at the same time.   Swizz Talk   Events!   15:21, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the wikia rules along with the RuneScape rules would have to extend to the IRC channel, just like they do to all the other off-site things we have now. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 15:58, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Swearing is only reportable/rule breaking if it's offensive. A lot of people use rude words to express themselves, in some cases it shows a poor vocabulary but that's how that person has been brought up.   Swizz Talk   Events!   18:51, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Why is it unfortunate that we have to make up a set of rules? We just did it for TeamSpeak, no? It should not be that hard to come up with a set of rules. In my opinion, they should be the same as the freenode IRC rules. Not a hard concept. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I don't even use SwiftKit, so this isn't relevant to me. But I've used it before, and guess what? I've NEVER been hacked. I have a handful of friends who use it exclusively. NEVER been hacked. Just accept that the EDIT: gosh-darn program is safe already. It annoys me to no end when people whine about "amg swifkit ggona get u haxed!!" because it is NOT a legitimate concern. If they added a keylogger in with an update, eventually people would notice due to the fact that they were HACKED. Then they would tell their friends not to use SwiftKit and the whole program's reputation would be destroyed. So how about we grow up and stop acting like SwiftKit is an unknown program that is downloaded from the bottom of the internet? Take care, Elijah doucheface.png 18:08, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Another problem I see with the IRC is not getting many people come in. Recently we had a 'TeamSpeak' server made, on the first few days quite a lot of people came in, but now there's only 1-2 people in there if any.   Swizz Talk   Events!   18:53, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but few people have microphones, I bet. I've never heard anyone speak of TeamSpeak on RuneScape, so while it may be popular with other MMOs, it's surely not for RuneScape. Swift is something that is known by a large percentage of RuneScapers, with a large percentage using it. It couldn't hurt to try it out. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Howsabout trying to increase activity on the existing IRC? ajr 19:41, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Who said we can't be in two IRCs at the same time? I would still be in freenode, but if I'm also playing RuneScape on SwiftKit at the same time, then I have a handy-dandy SwiftIRC channel right below the game applet. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - As far as I know, most Runescape players who generally use an internet relay chat for communication use SwiftIRC. I suggest, if we don't make a new channel, move the channel from the existing server into SwiftIRC? Also, for the person who argued against the IRC all together because we have clan chat systems in place, IRC can allow one person to take participation in upto 30 active IRC channels at the same time, Runescape's clan chat system only allows one. My example of not being able to be in the cc because I had to be elsewhere can be seen at this moment in time. Im in a soul wars clan chat getting 99 defence ;D RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 21:01, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

FreeNode is the most used network. It only makes sense that we use that one. ajr 21:02, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
For Runescape? I've actually never heard of it... RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 21:06, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
The FreeNode IRC network is the most widely used IRC network in the world. As I say, it makes sense that we use it. ajr 21:07, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
And how many people who use FreeNode play Runescape? SwiftIRC was formed due to Swiftkit and is the automatic server the client downloads with... 99.9% of the people who use Swiftkit at one point in their lives played, or currently do play Runescape, whereas Freenode probably has a very small minority. RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 21:10, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
You do realize that our Freenode channel is on the Wikia Freenode server, don't you? That means staff are easily reachable and, if staff ever need to talk to anyone through IRC we are easily reachable. IRC is hardly used as is and you are coming up with this nonsense about how we need to use SwiftIRC "because lots of people that play RS use it". Really..what does that have to do with this wiki? Andrew talk 21:29, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, Im sorry, I thought this was the RUNESCAPE Wikia... Guess I'll go deactivate my account then, I must of misread the title... RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 21:43, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
I hate to say this, but we are more Wikia than we are RuneScape. We are a RuneScape encyclopedia based on MediaWiki, not RuneScape itself. ajr 21:44, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
... RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 21:47, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Your unnecessary sarcasm isn't welcome here. Please use some common sense. Andrew talk 21:49, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Uh... how about we make both? kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 21:51, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Would many people even use them? Suppa chuppa Talk 23:15, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Let's find out and see, no? I personally think about as many people as we have in freenode would visit SwiftIRC, there are alot of people who use it... Does it matter if 5 or 50 people join? As long as it's getting use and we're having fun with it, the amount of people shouldn't matter. I know for a fact it will not be deserted. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 23:40, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well, if it's going to be used, then I guess supporting can't hurt. Suppa chuppa Talk 23:51, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I've changed the notice at the top. I greatly apologize for my hostility towards anyone with the "unsafe" argument, a bad day + an off-topic argument (in my opinion) just... annoyed me to bits. I shouldn't have let that affect how I treat other's opinions, still. I could have politely told that person why their opinion was off-topic, but there was no need for the bit of harshness I added in. Sorry. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:04, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

I liked it better before >_> Take care, Elijah doucheface.png 23:13, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Suppot - Can't SwiftKit's IRC client join any servers besides SwiftIRC? If so, why not just join irc.freenode.net and connect to #wikia-runescape there? That said, many players might not know how to do this. All standard IRC clients can connect to SwiftIRC. I've never used SwiftKit and likely never will, but I've logged on to SwiftIRC from XChat before. People are saying "SwiftKit could give you a keylogger, so you shouldn't use SwiftIRC". This is non sequitur. Players can use SwiftIRC without using SwiftKit, so any security issues with SwiftKit are irrelevant to the discussion about SwiftIRC. Players who use SwiftKit to access SwiftIRC will continue to do so regardless of the outcome of this discussion, but some new ones may join it with other clients if this passes. Just my two cents. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 02:31, July 10, 2010 (UTC) 

Support but only with the topic/greet message being instructions on how to join the Freenode server (if this is possible). Then maybe a kick after 5 minutes. ⁓ Hello71 02:39, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

What? That's not cool man. Some people don't want to join the freenode server because if you use SK the SKIRC is that much easier. Don't be hating on them cause of personal choice. HaloTalk 03:20, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
Right^? We could put that type of thing on the front page, why would we only use the proposed channel for that? If you're more in favor of the freenode channel, then oppose this one. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 03:26, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Steler is correct. SK is not the only means of accessing SwiftIRC. SwiftIRC can also be accessed through qwebirc, as freenode can be:

Freenode - http://webchat.freenode.net/ SwiftIRC - http://qwebirc.swiftirc.net/

Bet ya didn't know that, huh? You don't have to download SwiftKit at all to use the IRC. There is even another Java applet for SwiftIRC on their website, if you don't want to use qwebirc either. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 03:05, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - First, we're already in freenode. Second, those using swiftkit's irc client can connect to irc.freenode.net and then join wikia-runescape. Why is a channel on swiftirc any better than a channel on freenode? Since you made a proposal that has received opposition, burden of proof is on you; we maintain the status quo unless you can prove why your proposal is better. The "Swiftkit is safe!" argument, true or not, doesn't prove anything - neither does "Why not?" Leftiness 05:39, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
Because, simply put, more RuneScape players use and have heard of SwiftIRC. Take care, Elijah doucheface.png 06:17, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
First, I already know that much. Second, this is not a "swiftirc is better than freenode, lets ditch freenode and use swiftirc instead" proposal. The SwiftIRC channel would be secondary. It would not prevail over freenode, freenode would still exist. Anyone would have to option to use either freenode, SwiftIRC, both, or neither. Third, have I not given proof in the original post? I gave proof that SwiftIRC is popular, I gave proof that the program where most people access SwiftIRC from, SwiftKit, is popular. I've said that it is easier to play RuneScape and talk in a SwiftIRC chat at the same time than it is to play RuneScape and talk in a freenode chat at the same time. Trust me, I don't like the "SK is safe!" argument as much as you do, it has no little relevance to this proposal. I only provided that information on safety to attempt to please the ones who did think it has relevance to this proposal. How much more 'proof' would you like me to give you? You make it sound as if I've not supported my proposal at all. Perhaps you should read through the thread again. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:06, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I've never used SwiftKit but I looked up the documentation and it does appear to support changing the server connection. Connecting to the existing FreeNode channel from SwiftKit should be a matter of typing these commands:

  1. /connect irc.freenode.net
  2. /join #wikia-runescape

I don't know if you can set it to automatically use this server, though. --Quarenon  Talk 06:43, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying us Quarenon, you're correct, you can connect to freenode through SK Smile. I've requested for closure with instructions below. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:28, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - I don't use an IRC or plan to in the near future, rs chat and ts if already enough for me Lol. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 07:18, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Request for closure - It turns out that you can access irc.freenode.net through SwiftKit, so a SwiftIRC channel is no longer needed. To connect to freenode through SwiftKit, the following must be done:

1. Download, install, open SwiftKit.

2. Launch SwiftKit, create a profile if you haven't already

3. Sign into your profile.

4. Click "Show Internal Utilities" in the bottom-right corner.

5. Click the Pacman-looking button.

6. Click "Options" to the left.

7. In the connection tab (it should be opened by default) click "Add".

8. An "Edit server" window should pop up.

9. Input the following information into the boxes:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2826/freenodeinstructions.png

9.1 Leave "Server password" empty. It is not needed to connect to freenode.

9.2 Your password should be the password you used to register your nickname.

9.3 Under "Auto join channels", these are the channels that will automatically be connected to when using the "freenode" profile. Input as many freenode channels as you'd like.

9.4 Under "Options", I highly recommend you checkmark all of these. They are not required, but will make things easier for you when using IRC.

10. Press "Save".

11. Press "Apply" and "OK".

12. At the "Select profile" dropdown box, click the "freenode" profile. Click the "Connect" button. Be patient, it might take a few seconds.

13. Done. Now you can use IRC as you please while you play RuneScape in the same window. Smile

14. As a reminder, if you would like to use SwiftIRC at the same time as you are using freenode, it is possible. Simply click the "Start" tab, and click "Quick connect" from the dropdown box. Type in your SwiftIRC nickname, enter any SwiftIRC channel you'd like, optionally obtain auto-ranking by typing in your password in the auth to services box, and connect. This way you can be on two networks at once.

Could we please add this to RS:IRC? It is valuable information that all SK'ers could use. Thanks. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:27, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - I have added the instructions to join the Freenode channel via SwiftIRC to RS:IRC. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 12:30, July 11, 2010 (UTC)