Difference between revisions of "Forum:Stop using the sitenotice for One Small Wiki Favour"

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'''Comment''' - Would it be possible not to show it to the people who are logged in or let individual users opt out forever? {{Signatures/5-x}} 14:13, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 
'''Comment''' - Would it be possible not to show it to the people who are logged in or let individual users opt out forever? {{Signatures/5-x}} 14:13, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 
:I don't think we'd want to exclude all logged in users, although such a thing is possible. The method for opt out would be a long term browser cookie, not attached directly to the user. {{Signatures/Cook Me Plox}} 07:48, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 
:I don't think we'd want to exclude all logged in users, although such a thing is possible. The method for opt out would be a long term browser cookie, not attached directly to the user. {{Signatures/Cook Me Plox}} 07:48, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
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'''Support''' - as per proposer, I keep having to close it (#2) and it becomes so mundane and routine I rarely read the text anyway (#1). It would be great for 1SWF/OSWF to have a home on the front page (I note that it's already noted on the sidebar). Additionally, I really feel like we got away from "certain hosts" to reduce on annoying advertising and while this might be hyperbole, I feel like such an advertisement doesn't live up to that aim. I'm not admin or staff or anything, but ''if'' we could implement a better solution to permananently dismiss it (#2), ''at that time'' I'd be in favour of allowing the banner again. Until then, it's a pretty firm nope from me. [[User:Techhead7890|Techhead7890]] ([[User talk:Techhead7890|talk]]) 02:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 02:20, 16 August 2019

Forums: Yew Grove > Stop using the sitenotice for One Small Wiki Favour

Gonna keep this short and sweet. I think we should stop using the sitenotice for One Small Wiki Favour tasks. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm referring to this:

There are a number of reasons why I am suggesting this:

  1. Banner blindness. When we're constantly utilising the space at the top of the page, people become accustomed to ignoring it when they're just simply on the wiki to get info about something. In the same way that you'd ignore ad space, people start ignoring the sitenotice when we constantly have something in there. To prevent this, we should try and only use the sitenotice for important notices and announcements.
  2. There is no permanent way to dismiss the OSWF notices. This means a person who may click that 'Dismiss' link at the top right of the notice can expect to have the notices re-appear in ~2 weeks time when the tasks rotate and someone increments the number in MediaWiki:Sitenotice id (every time there are new OSWF tasks currently).
  3. I believe that there are better ways to promote OSWF, such as through our social media (Twitter), our Discord server, and by utilising the space on the main page. These overused in-your-face notices at the top of every page (which look way too bright on dark mode by the way) are not user-friendly.

Examples of good uses of the sitenotice:

Discussion[edit source]

Support - jayden 11:40, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Support - Srylius (talk) 11:42, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Support - agreed on all points. 5-x Talk 11:47, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Support - Merds msg 11:54, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Neutral - Kelsey speaks the truth. Merds msg 13:34, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Neutral - I can almost guarantee that the other methods of advertising are nowhere near as effective, if effective at all. That said, banner blindness is definitely a thing. Would like to see better solutions though. Talk-to Kelsey 12:19, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Comment - Would it be possible to solve #2? Can't we just use the same Sitenotice-id for every OSWF task? H rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).pngChompy_bird_hat_ogre_marksman.pngCrystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 12:55, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Not natively, because when you dismiss the sitenotice, a cookie is set to the ID that is in MediaWiki:Sitenotice id. jayden 13:31, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Neutral - Chiming in as someone who was initally attracted to start editing by that banner not that long ago, I don't think you're going to get anywhere near the numbers with alternate methods. That said, my thought process when first reading the banner went 'That's irritating' -> 'That's interesting' (after ignoring it a few times), so I understand why people might want it removed. For a person just wanting to use the wiki it's a bit of a pain. CynicalGnome (talk) 13:52, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Support - Even if there are better solutions, the longer we use it, the more people will ignore it, and the harder it'll be to communicate more important information. There's no reason we'd need an alternative immediately, and no reason we can't find that alternative after removing it from rotation.   Sahima (Talk) 23:03, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose if we can respect the user's choice not to see it - A dark pattern is a dark pattern, even if it's well-intentioned. If the user doesn't wish to see the banner, we shouldn't force them. Since it appears possible to respect that choice, and since the original concern of banner blindness seems to have been addressed (ʍolǝq ǝsuodsǝɹ s,ʞooɔ ǝǝs), I'll change my opinion to Oppose, on the condition that we implement an opt-out.   Sahima (Talk) 20:36, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose - This would effectively kill the program. Other modes of advertising are demonstrably way less effective, and >95% of our visits to OSWF related pages are from the sitenotice. The analytics don't point to strongly diminishing returns from OSWF over time, so the banner blindness argument is compelling in theory but not in practice. There were no comments on the survey (or anywhere besides here, so far as I know) about annoyance over the banners, so I think this is fairly isolated. If you think the banners themselves are badly colored or unfriendly, feel free to propose changes. ʞooɔ 00:36, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

And regarding point 2, it would be about a 4 line change to DismissableSiteNotice to make it permanently hide OSWF banners on dismissal. This doesn't seem like an immovable object. ʞooɔ 01:27, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose - I just don't think the banner is that annoying. If point 2 could be addressed as Cook said that'd be good; I don't see why colours can't be made more amenable to dark mode as well. -- Cycloneblaze (user - talk - contribs) 10:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose - OSWF is directed at the people who don't edit yet. The suggested promotion methods wouldn't be nearly as effective when it comes to reaching those people - most of them aren't invested enough in the wiki to follow us on twitter, let alone join our discord server. In my personal experience I also don't find banner blindness to be all that big a factor - OSWF banners all look the same, so even though I've mostly trained myself to ignore those, I do notice other sitenotices. -Hourglass (2011 Hallowe'en event) detail.png I Am Me Talk III The Spark.png- 16:22, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose - I have never felt annoyed at the OSWF sitenotice. I agree with Cook that this wouldn't be good for it for the reasons he stated. 7kyt1iT.gif --WINE OF GOOD HEALTH (Actually Stinko) 20:58, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose - per Cook, et al. It is a bit blinding on dark mode so if it's possible to make a dark mode friendly colourway we should do that.    SuperiosityQuick chat button.png : Look at moi   22:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Oppose - per Cook, and agree with superiosity that the color scheme should maybe be changed in dark mode. Would it be possible to make the oswf banners toggleable via preferences per user so that someone could get it back if they wanted too? Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 10:35, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Comment - Would it be possible not to show it to the people who are logged in or let individual users opt out forever? 5-x Talk 14:13, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't think we'd want to exclude all logged in users, although such a thing is possible. The method for opt out would be a long term browser cookie, not attached directly to the user. ʞooɔ 07:48, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Support - as per proposer, I keep having to close it (#2) and it becomes so mundane and routine I rarely read the text anyway (#1). It would be great for 1SWF/OSWF to have a home on the front page (I note that it's already noted on the sidebar). Additionally, I really feel like we got away from "certain hosts" to reduce on annoying advertising and while this might be hyperbole, I feel like such an advertisement doesn't live up to that aim. I'm not admin or staff or anything, but if we could implement a better solution to permananently dismiss it (#2), at that time I'd be in favour of allowing the banner again. Until then, it's a pretty firm nope from me. Techhead7890 (talk) 02:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)