Forum:Sortable Table Bestiary for Members

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This thread was archived on 5 July 2013 by Suppa chuppa.

Project proposal

There exists a sortable table bestiary for free-to-play players and I propose that the community creates a Sortable Table Bestiary for Members. A rework of the majority of existing Bestiaries is suggested along with the acquisition of the Evolution of Combat monster stats.

Goals of proposed project

  1. Provide a quick and user friendly method for locating monster pages based on level, experience, and weakness.
  2. Update all monsters to include the Evolution of Combat monster stats
  3. Provide players with a tool to locate monsters to train on, through the use of life points per experience ratios

Scope of proposed project

The existing Bestiary has been out of date since the introduction of the Evolution of Combat. Since there is already so much work required, I propose that the community undertakes a project to change the 12 existing non-Daemonheim Bestiaries from a listing format to a sortable table format. The table below shows the scale of the project that is being suggested:

Example of Desired Format Pages in Need of Redesign

Example of proposed project

Below is an example of the desired sortable table:

Monster Combat Level Life Points Combat Experience Life Points per Combat Experience Monster Weakness
Bunny 2 50 24.9 2.01 Slash Slash weakness icon.png
Cave goblin 2 50 24.9 2.01 Water Spells
Water weakness icon.png
Caitlin 2 150 0 N/A Arrows Arrow weakness icon.png
Woman 2 93 47.3 1.97 Crush Crush weakness icon.png
Chompy bird 3 300 62.2 4.82 Arrows Arrow weakness icon.png
Woman 4 100 34 2.94 Earth Spells
Earth weakness icon.png

Note: Updated table design to make Monster Weakness column sortable Mpsmonkey (talk) 19:12, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Instead of what you've done, we could make a new template (when this is completely sorted out) that accomplishes the same thing as Weakness clickpic but also includes a method of sorting. MolMan 19:14, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

This would be a large and time consuming project that requires the efforts of the community. Is this a project that would be beneficial to the community? Mpsmonkey (talk) 08:45, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - This should have been done ages ago. I'd be very happy to help. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 08:52, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Support - Instead of doing it manually, just make a ghost DPL template. For example, {{Forumheader dpl2}} takes the parameters from {{Forumheader}}, does a little formatting, and is then used on RuneScape:Forum Archives/2013, requiring only the original forum page to be updated. There's more explanation (it's a little technical if you're unfamiliar with DPL) here. cqm 10:21, 22 May 2013 (UTC) (UTC)

Suhpawt - What Cam said. Also this may be a minor thing but the sorting by weakness in the example format above seems to give it a random arbitrary order. Real Mad 11:58, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

It should be sorted by level, and alphabetically among levels themselves. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 15:05, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
Ya, but clicking to sort by weakness doesn't actually sort by weakness, at least not for me. Real Mad 15:51, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
Nope, it seems fairly random. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 17:11, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
I created a new design that allows the sort function to work Mpsmonkey (talk) 19:15, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Support - Can we remove the HP per XP thing though? It seems fairly useless to me, but feel free to convince me otherwise. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 15:05, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

No, it is useful. You'd rather kill monsters with low HP per XP than high, so it makes sense to have the table display that. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 17:38, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Let's remember Forum:New Analytics Tool: Introducing ParserSpeed before we jump to DPL. Also, with our uses of the monster infobox (whether it be coupled with other monster boxes or NPC boxes), DPL would be a complex and tedious task to have it account for everything. MolMan 18:38, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

I would prefer we did the same thing as I did on Grand Exchange/Buying limits, which uses DPL to generate the table but uses debug=5 to output the wiki text, and then I pasted that wiki text on the page. It would have to be updated whenever something changes, but it's better than waiting for DPL to load 300 monsters all the time. The other issue is that given the current monster infobox setup, we couldn't simply pull out this information from them. There are a ton of infoboxes where the level parameter, for instance, has 10 different levels on it. We would need to fix that either directly or when the bestiary tables are created. ʞooɔ 19:30, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
The multiple level is one that bothered me for dpl as well as anything that uses the switchfo boxes. I was thinking something similar to debug5, but it involved substing the parser lol. My idea also had me using the format parameter and involved templates to make each row formatted similar to {{DropsLine}} MolMan 19:35, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
I am not familiar with the technical aspects behind the project. DPL is new to me. Avoiding long load times is important, and I am in favour of the technique used on the Grand Exchange/Buying limits. As for the multiple monster levels, my instinct is telling me that using a switch infobox for each seperate level on the respective monster page would be most beneficial. The problem is that is a substantial amount of more work, and I do not know what effect it will have on the loading time of monster pages. Example: Goblin has 4 switching info boxes and 9 different levels. My idea is to generate 9 switching info boxes in order to accurately put the stats in the proper places.Mpsmonkey (talk) 21:22, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
I think you're at a little misunderstanding. The switchfo box is great and we should use it, but the only relevance it had to what I'm saying with regards to the table is that it causes parameter inclusion to be all wonky. Using your same example of goblin: The include statement on DPL for {infobox monster}:level returns "4, 6, 8, 1688, 9, 10120". That's not 1688, that should actually read 16, 8, 8. Same problem over at that 10120. There's no foolproof way to reformat that that I can think of. And that's just format, don't get me started on how you'd implement these numbers into good sorting sequences and all that other jazz. MolMan 22:04, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
I should also add that DPL loading is slightly less annoying if we use "allowchachedresults = true". Not that this fixes all the other problems this project has with the module. MolMan 22:09, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Addition to proposal? - We shouldn't keep the last bestiary interval we have. Level 100+ was always a bad idea. While I'm completely ignorant as to the density of higher level monsters now, we should probably split up that page as part of this project. Unless someone could enlighten this fool otherwise. MolMan 22:18, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Support & Addition - The existing monster levels to the best of my knowledge span from level 2 to level 230. The 11 existing monster categories could simply be  expanded to 20 level intervals instead of the current 10, with 200+ being the final category. Mpsmonkey (talk) 03:29, May 23, 2013 (UTC)
Comment - Monsters span from combat level 2 to around 260. I think five categories would suffice - neither too large, nor too fragmented (2-49, 50-99, 100-149, 150-199, 200-260). 5-x Talk 20:01, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Double Support  - I support both the original idea of the new sortable table and Regis' new categories for the level spacings. As to the technical stuff, I know nothing about any of that so I will graciously defer to the judgement of people better versed in the intricacies of wiki design than I.04ismailjj6 (talk) 22:34, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

triple support - Runescape already put together a neatly spaced bestiary, it shouldn't take that long to slap together a bot that detects when "slash" is in a certain indenture, and to put the slash symbol where it belongs.--Ice Rush12Zaros symbol.pngTalkHiscores 06:43, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

What? ʞooɔ 09:51, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
I agree. Could you please elaborate what you are picturing with the bestiary that Runescape has and how that helps us to creat our new idea. Mpsmonkey (talk) 03:28, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Question - So if this became a project, who would help? sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 19:27, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

As long as its mostly copy+pasting, then filling in blanks from info, and not intense bot programming, sure, I'm up to it...I guess.Ice Rush12Zaros symbol.pngTalkHiscores 07:57, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
I have been playing with some code to simplify our efforts. You can see my experiments on here. What I foresee is the following: A bot or complicated code will put together an incomplete table from level xx to level YY. We will then see which monsters are not displaying correctly in the table. We will correct the monster pages with missing information or multiple pieces of information in one box (Example: Max hit 56 (lvl 30), 74 (lvl 42)). At this stage though, the code is incomplete and simply an idea. I need help generating the table, as I am new to DPL and its syntax. Mpsmonkey (talk) 04:24, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
Your DPL looks fairly good. Tell me what it is you need help with and I can check that out. MolMan 15:12, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Closed - Feel free to implement the proposal. Suppa chuppa Talk 21:52, July 5, 2013 (UTC)