Forum:Social feed

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Forums: Yew Grove > Social feed
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This thread was archived on 9 February 2020 by IsobelJ.


So, earlier today, Mod Breezy proposed the suggestion of a social feed-type widget for the wiki. Basically, a feed of JMod/RuneScape content from both Twitter and Reddit, with the purpose to make this content more visible to players as it can be easily missed (compared to things posted on the RuneScape website).

Some of us admins have already discussed the idea of this, however the proposal is more the design aspect of this feature, as I've split into sections below. So far, the general consensus seems to be 'this is a cool thing that we like the idea of, however less human intervention is preferable'. RuneLite already has more-or-less an existing version of this proposed feature - see here.

A - Content

  1. All-content feed only: Contains all content from the JMod/RuneScape accounts. Requires no manual upkeep, however would be full of everything, regardless of its relevancy to the game. Technically, would we want this 'all-content feed' to only contain content with a certain amount of engagement and above? X likes? Also, we would presumably not want to include retweets (but we would want to include replies)?
  2. Curated feed only: Relies on human intervention (admin-only) for this to be useful. The consistency of this would likely rely on the technical implementation of the feature (if content could be selected at the press of a button, would be kept much more up-to-date than if a template had to made each time and content manually added). However, would contain only the most relevant content (e.g. news posts, revealed drop rates, etc.), and thus fulfills the prime purpose of making this content more visible to players.
  3. Both: Example: 2 buttons at the top to switch between feeds, one saying 'All content', and one with 'Most relevant'.
  4. Other?

B - Location

  1. Header: Is able to be accessed from anywhere on the wiki, making it have arguably high visibility.
  2. Front page: Also high visibility, but can't be accessed from anywhere on the wiki.
  3. Elsewhere? Not super viable if we want this to be very visible to users.

Other possibilities

  • Notifications: Notifications for each new feed item.
  • Filter: Deselect specific accounts you wish to not have content shown from. Obviously this feature would only work if we went with an implementation that contained a non-curated feed.



Support A3 (both feeds), and B1 (header) - Really like this idea of a social feed. Personally prefer there to be 2 feeds, containing both curated and non-curated content (gets you the best of both worlds). At the very baseline, I think there should be a non-curated feed, even if the obvious issue is that it would contain irrelevant things (going against the prime purpose of trying to make certain content from twitter/reddit more visible). We already have admins up-keeping the wiki twitter account multiple times a week, and so if the implementation for having a curated feed was on the simple side, I don't think this would be too much of an effort.

I think the header location would be much better, so content can be browsed from anywhere on the wiki. Also in favour of having a notifications option and filters. Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 12:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

In regards to the upkeep required of a curated feed, I think I'd also like to just mention that the stuff that would likely be put in here isn't posted all that often. I'm talking about stuff like drop rate reveals, update posts, patch posts, stream tweets, and hotfixes etc. Rarely posted on the weekend, and maybe a few times throughout the week. Worst case, some admin manages to add a tweet to the curated feed a couple days after it was posted. The content likely isn't urgent, and is still made visible to people, just a couple of days later. Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 13:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A3 (both) & B1 (header) - Big fan of the idea, especially with the proposed sub-idea of having a curated feed alongside the "all" feed. Notifications would be great, but preferably if you can include a toggle between "Off", "Notifications for all" & "Notifications only for curated posts". My contributions Dalek SecTalk to me 12:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Question - If "curated feed" makes the cut, which criteria would be used to determine 'postworthiness'? For example, does a promised bugfix/ninja update with unknown ETA qualify as something we'd want posted? My contributions Dalek SecTalk to me 12:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

That would inform people that Jagex is aware of something and might do something about it soon™. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 13:22, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Imo, stuff like the update post/patch notes post, hotfix queued, hidden updates, drop rate releases etc.. Unsure about stuff like behind the scenes looks at upcoming updates, and stream tweets? Also, I imagine the feed would include the wiki twitter account, so stuff like new wiki features as well I guess Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 13:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A1 (else oppose), no opinion on location - As I said in private, how often would admins actually look through and curate the feed? Adding something like this is just another thing to maintain. There's already enough to do. Human intervention with things like this is a hindrance. jayden 13:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose A1, support A2 if people will take the effort - A feed of every post from a bunch of RuneScape and Jagex-related persons sounds quite hellish and generally too-noisy even in the best case (e.g. in the Twitter UI). If we're trying to fit it in some partial-screen UI element, I can't imagine people are gonna find it remotely useful.

A feed of the heavy hitters (game updates, big teasers, bug fixes, mechanics reveals, and honestly maybe important consumer-related wiki stuff too) that we think would be relevant to readers could be good. But I think we need to have very strong interest from multiple people to curate this if it's gonna actually happen. ʞooɔ 23:07, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Comment - My first instinct was to oppose A1 since my first thought was that a solely uncurated feed would contain too much unimportant information. Though thinking it through I don't know if this would really be the case, it might be a case of confirmation bias / small sample size of personal anecdotal evidence. I think could try implementing A1 first and then based on what the feed looks like add curation options if needed. Superiosity the WikianQuick chat button.png : Yo whats up 23:17, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A2 and A3 - I don’t mind helping curate this. I’m not sure exactly how it would work but I check everything way too often so I guess that’s a plus for this project.

Support A2 because I don’t se much use in displaying banter tweets, though if we could find a way for admins to see all the tweets and only push the relevant ones to everyone it would be like discord pinning which would be easier to maintain. 2 or 3 checks per day should be enough to keep it updates and 1 person can easily do it alone. Meeeeerds msg 00:15, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A3 and B1 - If people wanna commit to sorting through the irrelevant stuff, that's fine with me. Talk to Kelsey 00:22, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - I don't want my UI cluttered with random social media stuff. If it's going to be implemented I would like to be able to disable it completely. Chen (talk) 00:30, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Would a small button in header really clutter your UI? Talk to Kelsey 01:13, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Also, without much indication of details of implementation, I'm left to guess. "Widget" generally means something specific. Indifferent without it. Chen (talk) 01:16, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
I see no reason there can't be a preference to toggle it off Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 08:28, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Support Any - as long as I don't get unread badges constantly. thanks to 5-x on discord for convincing me Chen (talk) 19:09, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A2 and B1 though not opposed to B2 in addition - I like the idea in principle but only in a curated form, as adding every single thing a JMod says on social media would just clutter and bury the actually important stuff. Based on my own experience of sifting through JMod posts on social media the workload is reasonable given a curator only list of everything that is posted. As for what is the "important stuff", I would say that posts like hotfixes, hidden updates, drop rates, update posts and patch notes, etc. belong there. Srylius (talk) 08:47, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A2, B1/B2, Neutral A3, Oppose A1 - I don't see the use of an uncurated feed, but I'm not against having it as a secondary option. As others have stated the number of relevant posts is fairly low, so it shouldn't be a problem to keep it curated well, assuming the interface is easy to use. Additionally I think we should set a baseline for what relevant posts are, to keep it as consistent as possible, make it easier to curate and to keep discussion over individual posts to a minimum. As for location, I think having it on the homepage, assuming it's a sensible size, is a good idea. Having a dropdown or similar that is accessible on every page is also good. I wouldn't be opposed to having something in the sidebar, assuming it was no more than maybe 2 lines "News" and then a truncated version of the latest post title/tweet.Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 09:18, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - I don't actually see the value in having this as a feature on the Wiki just from one JMod suggestion. Before that point I'd never heard of anyone complaining that they miss Tweets on Twitter with interesting information let alone wishing that it was on the Wiki instead? Normally if anything notable is posted on Twitter and not through any of Jagex's high-visibility channels, it's posted on Reddit. What group of people are we serving with an "All posts" feed that aren't already served by following JMods on Twitter? What group of people are serving with a "Curated posts" feed that aren't already served by visiting the Subreddit? If the Widget is going to be a tiny little button in the side/top navbar squirrelled away, not to mention either disabled by default in your User Preferences or toggle-able, how are people going to find out about it? Posting on Reddit lmao, isn't the whole point of it being on the wiki is for it to be high-visibility? Why is Breezy concerned with Twitter post visibility in the first place? This feels like something that if Jagex as a whole wanted, they'd go through the current channels they already have to express those desires, not in the DM's of one JMod. Not to mention, what do we actually gain from implementing this? It seems like a significant amount of work to get the widget created and working and then the maintenance of "curating" one feed; for what? To satisfy one request from a JMod worried about Twitter post visibility in the greater community? Do we think this will make people spend more time on the Wiki than before? This whole Social Feed has a far too nebulous purpose, with far too much work both immediately and in the long term for little to no reward in my opinion. Choose OptionTalk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 2,695). . . . . . . . . . real life easter egg, :wowee: don't tell anyone though! Talk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 2,695) 14:10, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I disagree with a lot of this. For starters, I have actually seen people complain about missing information from twitter - notably this popular reddit post from not too long ago. Having this feature on the wiki would negate the need to be checking multiple social medias, as yes, even though a lot of popular stuff from twitter is crossposted to reddit, not all of it is. Additionally, I don't agree that everyone who is interested in the content that would be here have the time to be checking twitter and reddit multiple times a day, every day, and are following *all* jmods that would be posting such content.
The events widget is also located in the toolbar, but people still know about it? It gets promoted, or people simple click it themselves out of curiosity to find out about it. Disabled by default is not something that has been mentioned, and imo, it wouldn't be disabled by default (thus it being toggle-able wouldn't be an issue of finding out about it, as you'd already know about it if you go to toggle it off). I don't think that just because one JMod (the only one who has actually mentioned it, not necessarily the only one who wants it) made the suggestion, rather than Jagex as a whole, therefore makes it invalid and unwanted.
Lastly, why does there really have do be some sort of large gain in it for us? People are interested in it, and think it would be a good community feature. Admittedly, I'm not 100% aware of the technical work required, however piggybacking off a conversation with Cook, it has come across to me as not too much work from existing features on the wiki (to quote: "the hard part is the curation"). I've already commented on this thread about the manual upkeep required, and stand by the fact that I don't think it would actually be too much - we already have multiple admins up-keeping the twitter, and if people are interested (see on this thread namely Merds) with it taking little effort a few times a week, what's the harm? Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 14:30, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
That post is actually about having important information be posted on official channels, not on Social Media. A Social Feed doesn't solve that problem, it simply makes us another form of Social Media for people to look at, unless you're implying we're some kind of official channel. The widget visibility point was more pointing out that I don't believe there's a large enough group of people that 1. Are committed enough to the game that upcoming changes/additions are wildly interesting to them, 2. Don't use Twitter or Reddit to get that information, 3. Only use the Wiki and 4. Would explore a little button with an unassuming icon in the navbar without being told about it on Twitter/Reddit (our social feeds). Also of course there has to be a net positive or large gain for any project? Otherwise why do it? The issue is, I don't see anyone actually interested in it outside of this thread. I'm also not aware of the work required for the project, truth be told, but something about not only there being the initial project cost but then the maintenance aspect just rubs me the wrong way. If curation is going to happen a few times a week, do you think the latency between posting on the primary source and being posted on this feed will be an issue with people wanting the information immediately? Choose OptionTalk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 2,695). . . . . . . . . . real life easter egg, :wowee: don't tell anyone though! Talk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 2,695) 14:50, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Sure, however that's on Jagex, and imo I don't see that changing at all. And so it effectively complains about the low visibility of that information - the feed would help the complaint about having to 'track jmods on social media for information and updates', as obviously Jagex devs aren't going to be stopping this. It would help by collating *only the most important information* in one place, on a site which tbh everyone already checks whenever they're playing runescape. A few times a week isn't a hard number, and I personally don't think the latency would be an issue (maybe sometimes, sure, but on a general consistent basis? no). I don't have anything further to say on the rest of your points that I haven't already said previously on this thread. Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 15:01, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
not too much work from existing features on the wiki I don't think I buy that at all. I think it holds true for the display to users, but not at all as a whole. It needs to scrape multiple media channels for posts by certain individuals, and then it needs some usable interface to curate them, allowing only admins to curate, and preventing conflicts etc. I think it's actually a good amount of work to get it working the way people are imagining it, which is development time I think would be better spent on other projects. Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 15:08, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Like I said, I'm not 100% aware of the technical work required and was going off a conversation with cook. To quote him again, giving context more explicitly to what I was going off "[11:55 AM] Cook: the actual technicals of it are almost identical to the thing you [jayden] and elessar built". Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 15:38, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Support - If someone can be bothered to keep it updated, so be it. Choose OptionTalk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 2,695). . . . . . . . . . real life easter egg, :wowee: don't tell anyone though! Talk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 2,695) 19:11, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - Having been on the other side of the fence, there's going to be so much stuff we'd see, and even curating that would be a ton of manual work, Jmods are always tweeting and they're not exclusively tweeting about the game. Realistically Jagex need to focus on trying to increase their own visibility on the forums which in my opinion need a complete revamp anyway. The only real way you could curate it is embed the Wiki feed and it then retweets stuff but that could get spammy on people who follows the Wiki's twitter feed.

Breezy's attempts to increase visibility are completely valid but this seems like a little project in the background that Jagex would likely want to change and make sure is done right, anyway just my two cents. - Shauny - 14:20, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't think that because Jagex *should* (should, not are) be trying to do something better, means that we therefore should not be trying to do the thing better. Also - again admittedly I'm not 100% aware of the technical work required - there are definitely other ways to go about curation than embedding the wiki feed. Like you said, this would get spammy and honestly thus not even be considered for a curation method, in addition to the fact that only a small handful of admins have access to the wiki twitter. Even if this was a separate twitter account, specifically for the purpose of curating the feed, this wouldn't account for reddit posts, and would arguably be more effort than some method allowing admins to curate the content onsite. Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 14:49, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
The idea is solid and I don't disagree with it, I just worry that the only way to do this properly will be curation which will immediately create a wait between someone who can press that button to make it appear on the feed, however there's something to say that we could arguably have the most important feed in RS if we only display tweets that are impactful? Just a thought. - Shauny - 14:56, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Changing to support - The more I think about it the more I realise the Wiki has a hell of a chance to create a centralised feed to list all important information provided it's manually curated, this then could easily be accessible in-game with the /wiki command, let's see it! - Shauny - 13:47, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A1.75/B1 - I mean, a curated thing would probably work like this already, but a feed that already pulls from the sites, but is then also refined by admins to only provide relevant information. This would also provide room for a toggle between the two. If we go with the toggle, I would say have it default to the curated list. Also, I'm a fan of having it in the header, that's the highest visibility due to being on every page. Badassiel 15:37, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - What would the wiki gain from this? What is the chance that one in a fifty tweets from Jmods is actually about current/upcoming game content? What is the chance that a randomly selected tweet from a Jmod is about what they had for dinner? The wiki is an encyclopedia, not a community feed/aggregator or an intermediary. Useful information from Jmod communications on Twitter is to be extracted and put in appropriate wiki articles. Many editors already do this. Nothing of value ever goes unnoticed. As such I don't think I can agree with "this content can be easily missed". If you have a Twitter account and follow Jmods, you will see it. It is not in wiki's interest to increase exposure to Jmod tweets. The wiki is a fansite but it's foremost a wiki. 5-x Talk 17:23, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Your argument applies to an uncurated feed, but not a curated one. While generally the information released ends up on the appropriate wiki pages, there's no central place to see what was recently released, updated etc, especially in reference to hotfixes, bugs and the like. Agreed that it's not our job to increase exposure for JMod accounts but the central purpose of a curated feed would be collecting information on recent Runescape bugs, hotfixes etc not regurgitating tweets. As for If you have a Twitter account and follow Jmods, you will see it. vehemently disagree, you'd have to follow all of them, and read every tweet and reddit post from them for this to be true. Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 14:58, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
"(...) there's no central place to see what was recently released, updated etc, especially in reference to hotfixes, bugs and the like." Yes there is and it's the weekly patch notes post, and the weekly update newspost. The wiki is an encyclopedia and tweets, curated or not, have no place here. If you have a twitter account it's not difficult to stay in the loop. 5-x Talk 16:48, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Yes, but mostly no. For a time hotfixes were added to the patch notes but currently they are not and not all bugs are added to them either. Never mind things like drop rates reveals, trivia, information on upcoming content and so forth. Srylius (talk) 17:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Neutral leaning oppose - I'm going to add absolutely nothing to this discussion by saying I don't care as long as I'm not the one who has to upkeep it. I'm not sure if it's the wiki's role to fix the flaws of the game's developers. User talk:ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of User talk:ThePsionic ThePsionic Special:Contributions/ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of Special:Contributions/ThePsionic 13:06, 16 January 2020 (UTC) Strong support - this tweet convinced me User talk:ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of User talk:ThePsionic ThePsionic Special:Contributions/ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of Special:Contributions/ThePsionic 15:24, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose? - We aren't a social media platform. We already have the #reddit channels in Discord and reference useful tweets from JMods that are relevant to articles. I'm failing to see the benefit of this, especially when the most plausible suggestion (A2) requires manual work. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 12:31, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Comment - There are a lot of opposed based on, or partially based on, the manual work involved with curating something like this. I think a trial to see if it is kept up would be worth it, to alleviate these concerns. Plus, if in the future it does fall out of use/upkeep, it can always be removed. Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 14:58, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Support A3/B1 - I'd also like join Merds in curating the feed. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 19:14, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Comment from Mod Breezy -

  • "(...) about the approach to/methodology of the discussion"

First of all i wanna say i think it's really cool that you guys use the format that you do for discussing these sorts of things. I told Star already but i think it's awesome that you can pitch ideas and then support/oppose and back up your stance - it's brilliant that it's such a methodical system - i didn't know about the BTS of the wiki stuff so that was cool to see. Also i wanna preface my thoughts by saying that i do not care for the outcome of the discussion so i don't want it to seem as though i'm influencing anything, nor is this coming from "Jagex", just me and my thoughts/suggestions.

I think one of the things that struck with me in general was that your approach to the discussion at hand isn't "perfect" or not as methodical as it could've been, and im borrowing a page from designing and developing games/software here... I saw lots of arguments opposing the entire idea based on one aspect/route that the social feed could take in terms of functionality. i.e. "i oppose because i don't want a Jmods dog pics on the wiki's social feed". Thats a fair argument to make but not before you've first discussed other things. If that really was the case, then don't go for an automated/un-curated system, for example. Basically i liken it (kinda) to if i was to complain about the 3rd mechanic of the 4th boss of Elder God Wars dungeon before we'd begun designing it, before i even know what it is.

I think the better route to have taken was to have done it in 1 or 2 steps (and this is purely an example) such as:
1) Discuss the core elements of the idea
- is it suitable for the wiki?
- is it required?
- Would it be useful?
- what are we trying to solve?
- Can it work technically?
- How much traffic would it get?
- What information do we want to relay?
- Here's some ideas of how it could work
    1. curated system blah blah
    2. uncurated system blah blah
    3. rabble rabble rablle blah
2) Discuss the mechanics, pros and cons of each system etc.
1. Curated System
   Will require manual work and more time
   Will be better tailored
   Can better spread info as the wiki is go to place

2. Uncurated system
   Will require less manual work
   Might be too spammy
   Will contain things that aren’t news (doggo pics)
   etc. etc.

That way you’re discussions can go as far as they need to and not further, as opposed to arguing about the mechanics of a system before it’s even been thought out/designed, and you’d know at stage 1 if you were going to continue to stage 2 or not, just as an example. Basically, what are your aims, what are you trying to achieve, and how will you do it?

Mod Breezy

  • Regarding the actual discussion

As for the discussion though, there wasn't too much for me to take away.. i don't really mind what the outcome is, either way it doesn't necessarily affect me but i see it beneficial for the community in general. I think questioning if it's the wiki's "job" or not to do such a thing is good, the Wiki does and should have an identity, but at the same time that argument can fall a bit flat because a lot of the times it was backed up with "it's not our job". You could argue that just the existence of the wiki undermines that. Is it the players' job to document all of Runescape? We already have somewhat of a DnD Tracker in game, was it the players' job to create another/better one? Is it the players' job to create calculators? or have an "upcoming updates" page? or document the Jmods in their own page? All of this could've been Jagex, right? I'm not saying whether it is or isn't anyones job, but thats a very fuzzy set of questions to think about, especially when you look at what the wiki has provided over the years.

Mod Breezy

Posted by: Meeeeerds msg 22:13, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Regardless of the content in these posts, responses to threads in discord isn't how we determine consensus and posting them here as a proxy kind of circumvents that. If Mod Breezy or anyone else wants to explore this, then they're welcome to try, but criticising the discussion process and then posing existential questions don't really move the discussion forward in any way. cqm talk 22:41, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
I think my general response to this was: it's all well and good to want a more structured discussion with multiple steps, but that works dramatically better when you can get consensus on one particular step from a half-hour meeting, rather than needing basically a week or two to get any agreement on a single facet of the proposal (like we do, by virtue of not all being in the same place or having defined schedules for input). Once you realize that, it starts to make more sense that we have a strong interest to reduce the number of layers in a single discussion. So broadly, I disagree with the proposed approach. ʞooɔ 22:46, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Closed - while some editors have expressed doubt about the likelihood of this being maintained, several admins have stated that they would be interested in doing so. Since this was the main point raised in opposition, I find that there is consensus to implement a curated social feed, to be located in the header. Magic logs detail.pngIsobelJTalk page 21:24, 9 February 2020 (UTC)