Forum:Sister Wikis & Affiliates for Wikian Title

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This thread was archived on 28 December 2016 by Suppa chuppa.

So I understand from Runescape:The Wikian that people from the OSRS Wiki, RSC Wiki, and non-English Wikis will be able to be nominated in the next batch of nominations. However, the article makes no mention at all of Sister Wikis or of Affiliates. I was hoping we could get this out of the way now to avoid issues in the future as to whether or not other Sister Wikis and Affiliates would be considered for the title. The full list of Sister Wikis and Affiliates can be found at RuneScape:Links

I was under the impression that this title is not meant to be exclusive, which is why I personally feel we should extend the offer to Sister Wikis and Affiliates. Many of these Sister Wikis have worked very hard to fill in gaps that this Wiki is not designed for (Such as DarkScape, RS Clans, RS Players, Funorb, etc...). It does not seem fair, in my opinion, that they should be excluded from the title for focusing on specific areas of the game instead of the overall game and the main Wiki.

Please share your thoughts, I am eager to hear what people think of this extension to the title. --Kent Knifen (talk) 19:35, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment/Question - I have no objections to strong contributors of other wikis getting nominated for the title. But ... wouldn't one of the main issues be that those are actually separate games from Runescape in the first place? RSC players would not be able to show off the title at all on RSC servers. (I'm not sure how many titles OSRS even has). In addition, we still run into issues of what if they don't play RS3 at all (focusing on RSC or OSRS) or even play any more (retired from RS completely)?

I do however see the pros in it that you might have an individual with 400 good posts here AND 400-1000 good posts on the other wiki(s) (so if we did have an X # of post limit, they'd pass it) with all the other details taken into consideration for being nominated in the first place. --Deltaslug (talk) 19:47, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Response to above As it stands, one of the requirements to be awarded the title is to actually play Runescape main itself, so I believe that concern is already covered. --Kent Knifen (talk) 20:29, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Suport Asv the proud admin of the french wiki, I think its not fair that the sisters wiki are excluded.

1wDmkih.png  Manpaint of the RPU (t)(c) 19:58, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Comment/Oppose for everything but foreign language wikis - Other language wikis seems like a fine option to have, but the DarkScape wiki is dead as that game is dead, RS Clans/Players wiki is not a valuable resources when it comes to what the wiki provides, Funorb is dead, and Old School/Classic couldn't even display the title. I'm all for allowing those from other language wikis who have made extensive contributions of quality to be nominated, as we do here, but I do not think other Jagex games (Funorb, Darkscape, Old School) really make any sense to be a part of this title, and I don't think the RS Clans/Players wiki offer anything of value that could be applied toward this title (as those wikis are very much focused around writing about player groups and not game information). Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 20:07, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Response to above I agree that as DarkScape is dead, any "new" contributors to it should be excluded. However, when DarkScape was still around, there were plenty of valuable contributors on it, and it'd be a shame for them to have nothing to show for the work they put into that Wiki. In regards to the Clans and Players Wiki, the main Wiki does not allow articles about players or clans because it would clog this Wiki up too much. On the other hand, there are very famous players (Zezima, Durial321, tehnoobshow) and clans (Viking Ship, RS Unity, RoT, CPK) that players are naturally going to be searching for. If these Wikis didn't exist, there'd be no way to find information about notable figures in our game's community, which is why I feel contributors to their Wikis deserve the Wikian Title, especially since we're all part of Wiki as a whole. --Kent Knifen (talk) 20:29, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Support - for foreign language mainscape and 07scape wikis only. Special exception to classic editors who are also active here or on the aforementioned foreign language wikis.Pikachu lv95 (talk) 20:14, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Support for foreign languages/2007Scape - Those wikis are important for their communities and for the game overall. I do not think it is necessary for the DarkScape Wiki/Players Wiki/Clans Wiki/Fan Fiction Wiki/Answers Site/Fun Orb Wiki/Ace of Spades Wiki/Chronicles Wiki, as these wikis aren't that important to the RuneScape game itself. While I can see the point for DarkScape, the game is closed. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 20:50, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Support for all Sister Wikis - If they play Runescape 3 and are actively providing information to relevant Wikis about Jagex products, then they deserve the title.

Also just want to add, it's been stated multiple times that "The title is not meant to be exclusive," I think by not allowing members of Sister Wikis and Affiliates to have it, we would be going against that statement and make it more exclusive and "elitist," which is just plain wrong in my opinion.--LisaaRS (talk) 20:56, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it is exclusive to limit it to the different language RuneScape Wikis and the 2007Scape Wiki. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 21:10, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
Well I don't think it's really fair to arbitrarily decide which Wikis are and aren't included in this. We could create dozens of reasons for every single Wiki (including foreign language Wikis) as to why they don't "deserve" the title, but at the end of the day, everyone is finding a way to contribute something to Wiki, and that's why I think they should be included. Besides, if we start excluding Wikis, then I'm concerned that'd make the title too elitist/limited, since it'd have to be people we "know" from this Wiki, rather than checking their qualifications. We don't want this title to be a symbol of our friends from the Wiki, we want it to be for people who are contributing in a beneficial way.--LisaaRS (talk) 21:16, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
Except excluding wikis that are irrelevant to the game isn't going to make the title so limited/elitist. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 21:22, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
They are relevant to the game because they focus on a very specific aspect of the game. That'd be like saying a Fishing guide is irrelevant because it only focuses on one skill. --LisaaRS (talk) 21:31, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
Except Fishing is a skill and is a major part of gameplay. Talking about clans and players is not part of gameplay, and is essentially a throwaway wiki to be perfectly blunt. It's not adding anything of value for new players to be able to know who X random player is. It does add something of value for new players to know what Fishing is and how to use it. Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 01:28, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Support for foreign languages/07scape only - As TyA and other people suggest. jayden 21:01, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Support for otherlang, 07 and classic - Classic deserves some love too, since it's still "official". DarkScape is dead as f**k and doesn't matter. The last time I used the player wiki was in 2011 and it was obsolete already. Other Jagex games shouldn't care about a RS3 exclusive title. User talk:ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of User talk:ThePsionic ThePsionic Special:Contributions/ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of Special:Contributions/ThePsionic 21:12, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

DarkScape may be dead, but I agree with Kent in that it's not fair to alienate the people who put so many hours into creating it. Also in regards to the RS Players Wiki, that's actually had a ton of work done to it since 2011, Kent has been very good about moderating it, and it's seen an increase in activity since 2011. If you haven't looked at it in 5 years, you shouldn't assume it's obsolete in my opinion. --LisaaRS (talk) 21:19, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
Another knock on the Darkscape wiki is that it has now been ~ 7 months since they closed Darkscape, and ~ 5 months since the last Darkscape Wiki edit. When Gaz was looking at edits, he was focused on editors who had been active in the last few months. --Deltaslug (talk) 23:10, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Comment - The main purpose of this title, ostensibly, is not to reward long-time editors, but rather to encourage new people to make contributions. It's not clear to me how extending the title to other specialized wikis helps accomplish that. On a personal level (not related to the overall proposal), I think this thread is a little bit in bad taste, since you filled up the RSOF thread with some kinda not nice things about the wiki and its community. It's not clear why you'd want to be associated with this group via the title, and it's not clear why we'd want you to be, since you have enough bad things to say... ʞooɔ 21:23, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

I will admit, I was very concerned that the title would only be given among a small circle of people, as very little discussion about the distribution of the title had taken place, and there was no public mention of it before its release. Also, I had had some very negative experiences when using this Wiki in the past (Which quite frankly was why I started working for Sister Wikis, they were more welcoming of newcomers), and I was concerned for newcomers that may start editing the Wiki. Having seen the Yew Grove thread about being nice to newcomers, I know that the RS Wiki is taking steps to be more newcomer-friendly, and my opinion on the matter has changed since those forum posts. I am sorry to have offended you on a personal level, that was not my intention. --Kent Knifen (talk) 21:29, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
After reading what you had to say about it on the forums, I disagree with it even more now. It's clear you just have a grudge about the whole thing. jayden 21:34, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
I don't have a grudge against it anymore, I just said that. The point in my forum posts was that I was concerned that the Wiki wasn't going to be fair in awarding the title. If you look at my last post, I even offered some suggestions to make sure it was a fair system. I'm sorry to have offended people with my prior comments on the RSOF, would it help if I were to remove them? --Kent Knifen (talk) 21:37, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
The system is fair. We have a page for nominations with guidelines as to getting it. You have to remember too that it is a vanity title. It doesn't impact the game in giving people an unfair advantage. It isn't anything that should be complained about. jayden 21:46, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
I'm not complaining about anything, nor am I arguing about whether or not the system is fair, I'm agreeing that it's fair, you guys did a good job in setting that up. All I'm saying is I feel we can make an improvement to it by granting the title to Sister Wikis and Affiliates. Since we recognize Sister Wikis and Affiliates by linking to them on the RS Wiki, we should include them for the title as well. Kent Knifen (talk) 21:52, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
  • I think it's nice to remember that on wikis, we tend to encourage responding to the idea and not the person. As to the merits of this idea, if people are active on the other Runescape-related communities and still play RS3, I think it's fair for them to be nominate-able. Ajraddatz (Talk) 21:41, December 11, 2016 (UTC)
I agree. I feel as though some people are putting personal opinion/preceived reputation of the OP as the basis of this discussion, and not actually the idea being proposed. --LisaaRS (talk) 21:44, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Support for 2007scape and active non-English RS wikis - Per others. Of course, 2007scape only applies if the user also plays RS3.

We should be clear and have a list of wikis this will involve. For simplicity, I defined activity as having a few things (other than user creation log) in recent changes over the last 30 days. Subdomain wikis: 2007, de, fr, nl, pt, fi, pl. Obviously this shouldn't be a fixed list, but this is the state as of this edit. (For clarity, the affiliate/sister wikis defined on RS:LINKS that also fit the activity note as well are: runescapeclassic, rsplayers, runescapeclans, runescapefanfiction, funorb, runescape.answers, and aceofspades.info.) Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 21:55, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Does what they offer help people ingame? - To me it should be for those whose edits help others in the game. Foreign languages, Classic, whatever, all good. Now, while some people get good use from or like the Fanfic wiki or CLans wiki and such, I do not see that they actually help players in the game. Maybe that criteria isn't important to others or isn't what Shauny intended. That's okay. But it's my thoughts, and that and $2.50 will get you a decent cup of coffee. Degenret01 (talk) 22:07, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Man. It costs $5 for a decent cuppa here. Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 22:16, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

Support foreign language wikis - I don't see the point in supporting 2007 or Classic, since anyone who would get any use out of an RS3-exclusive title would presumably be active enough here to qualify anyway. Adventurer's log Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon.png 01:58, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

Support foreign language wikis and 07/Classic - Active wikis for active games, their contribution to their various communities is important. As for the other wikis, they don't contribute as much to the game and I can't imagine you would get more than a handful of people in the running anyway. -- Golden warpriest of Zamorak helm.png Wingcap Firemaking master cape.png 15:44, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

Support Wingcap's choices, but comment for Players Wiki - Let me be very clear and say that I do not like the players wiki; it feels...unnecessary. However, it is still directly related to a major aspect of RuneScape - the community itself. I would not directly support editors from there being nominated for the title, but I would be okay with it if we did take them, you know what I mean? However, I oppose Chronicle, FunOrb, RSIA, and any sister wiki not directly about RS (or ones about DarkScape, since that game is dead and apparently the last edit is almost as long ago as it died). Chronicle and RSIA take place in Gielinor, but they are still different games by far. 7kyt1iT.gif --WINE OF GOOD HEALTH (Actually Stinko) 19:33, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way about the Players Wiki. Personally, I feel as though it offers a lot to the community. With Runescape being as old as it is, the game is bound to have "famous" players. Since the RS Wiki does not allow pages about specific players, the Players Wiki fills this gap by providing articles for people who are trying to find information on someone like...Zezima for example. Of course the scope of the Players Wiki has broadened over time to more than just famous players, but we do include notability criteria to ensure there aren't too many "unnecessary" articles on it. Kent Knifen (talk) 23:52, December 12, 2016 (UTC)
Let's be honest though. The Players wiki is horribly biased and cannot ever be an accurate and unbiased look at the players it wants to detail. It doesn't offer anything of use to players trying to PLAY the game. It's stuffed full of useless articles, doesn't do a very good job of following its criteria, and is missing loads of information about pretty much every player it arbitrarily chooses to detail. It's utterly unnecessary to be perfectly frank. People could spend forever trying to update it and likely will never be a good look at people. I know, it's harsh and all. But The Player and Clan wikis are never going to be an accurate and valuable resource when compared to wikis like this main one and the foreign wikis that detail important gameplay things players should be caring about. Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 01:38, December 13, 2016 (UTC)


Support Foreign Language Wikis - Foreign Language Wikis are very different of this place, of the Runescape Wiki, we are small, not many editors, and numbers of contribuitions arent significants there, we have players that translate quests only and pass the info to who edit, and those players with high numbers of edit that edit it, we have players that help on events and players that help with admin, and all they are importants to the grow of the fansite, so checking if anyone deserve or no the title need to be checked on a different view as the runescape wiki one. I don't know how work on NL, FR, FI, PL, but i don't think its different of us. "Those wikis are important for their communities and for the game overall" Support Raw Lobbs 21:40, December 12, 2016 (UTC)


===== How do they get selected? ===================

Besides deciding what other wikis will have people getting the title, how will the people be chosen? On the one hand, each wiki best knows who is deserving of the title and maybe they can do their own process as we do, and those who pass on their wiki get their names given to Gaz. Or we let them be nominated here but will then be judged(?) by those who in all likelihood are not familiar with their body of work. Sure, can look at edit counts and see how many characters they added to an article, but is that enough? Or if we let their wikis choose, how do we know that they are using a process that is at least similar to ours? It would be kinda sucky if people here fail to get the title but others from other wikis who did far less work are given it. Personally I feel they should be nominated here by someone from their wiki, and other people from their wiki come and participate in the discussion/voting. It will be a simple thing to verify that those participating have been around for a bit and contributed themselves. Let's just try to make sure we are both fair and encouraging but maintain at least some level of standards. Degenret01 (talk) 23:51, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd be cool with it if we kept the "requirements" consistent across all Wikis that become involved with this. I'd even go so far as to say that the nomination process should remain on the RS Wiki. My main concern in this thread was for the RS Wiki to acknowledge work that's been done on Sister Wikis and take it into account for the nomination process. If someone has 50,000 worthwhile edits across 5 Sister Wikis but only 5 edits on the RS Wiki, I think their work should be acknowledged and rewarded with the title, that's all. Kent Knifen (talk) 23:57, December 12, 2016 (UTC)
Everything that needs to be taken into account, will be taken into account. This has already happened in RS:Title#Batch nominations too, as an admin of Portuguese wiki fell into our batch nomination radar (so to speak), everyone acknowledged it at voted correspondingly. Lucky chaotic claw.png Metal Angel cut your wrists sample text 00:42, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Support for foreign language wikis and OSRS wiki - Slight support for DarkScape wiki - Since DarkScape wasn't too different from RS3, I'd like to see those who spent a lot of their time for the DS wiki to be able to be nominated.

Neutral for Players wiki - Like Stinko already said: "I do not like the players wiki; it feels...unnecessary. However, it is still directly related to a major aspect of RuneScape - the community itself." This wraps up my thoughts too. Many of us know every(most/some) famous player(s) since we've been around to hear about them, but for new players the players wiki might be good source of information? I can't decide where to draw the line with this one so: Neutral.

Oppose for other wikis - Information from other wikis are just too far off of Rs3 (or irrelevant to the game itself), and therefore should be left out. Everything in RSC outdated when compared to RS3, even if someone knew everything about RSC that knowledge would offer a little to no value in modern RS3, and therefore I suggest to leave it out too. Lucky chaotic claw.png Metal Angel cut your wrists sample text 00:42, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

What they said - And since there is a significant amount of people on both sides for Darkscape (and to a lesser extent RSC / RS07) wikis, I suggest looking at them case-by-case. These are all english-speaking wikis, and it's not that hard looking at someone's contributions page. If someone feels like they deserve the title for their work on those wikis, they could simply poke someone in any of the CC/S:C/etC, and ask them if they could nominate them for the title. I just think these should not be excluded, since all three of them have a significant impact on the community. Darkscape got closed less than a year ago, so I don't think it is fair to automatically rule those editors out. I think the same should apply to the [[w:c:runescape.answers|RS answers wiki]] as well. The answers wiki still gets relatively much traffic, and according to the feed on the front page, quite a few questions per day. If someone happens to get active there, I'd say they deserve such reward just as much. Of course, it could be argued a question-answerer is something different than a wiki-editor, but I think that if there is anyone who's willing to do that job, they at least deserve a pat on the back.
TL;DR: look at nominating case-by-case for Darkscape / RSC / RS07 / RS answers wikis. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 01:45, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Trust me, the RS Answers Wiki isn't worth it. They should close that wiki. A lot of the questions are spam or gibberish. Not many people answer it. And almost all of the answers should just be go to the RS Wiki (or OSRS wiki)  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.129.32.194 (talk).

Support for otherlangs - As for the other sister wiki's, they should looked at on a case-by-case basis but only if those editors are also using an RS account, otherwise an RS title would be useless for them. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 02:04, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Support foreign language wikis, 2007scape, Classic - per Wingcap. Also, it seems clear to me that the only reason this discussion exists is because Kent Knifen has not edited any currently-eligible wikis, is an administrator on many of the 'sister wikis', and wants the title. -- Cycloneblaze (user - talk - contribs) 18:57, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

To be fair, the number of contributions I've made on this Wiki are very comparable to the numbers for some people whom have already been nominated for the title. My main focus is centered around Sister Wikis, and as such I've met people on those Wikis (who do not have a large presence on this Wiki) who would've been more than eligible for the title had their focus been on the RS Wiki instead of, say, the RS Clans Wiki. This isn't about just "me" getting the title, it's about allowing contributors of Sister Wikis (Whom this Wiki have acknowledged, endorsed, and associated with) to be able to claim the title as a reward for their work. Again, it isn't about me, it's about everyone - If I were to log in tomorrow and Gaz were to offer me the title, that wouldn't be the end of this discussion, because there are more people than just myself who work very hard on Sister Wikis, and I think it's only fair they get equal representation. Kent Knifen (talk) 21:17, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Support for foreign, OS, Classic, DS - Even if DarkScape is dead, some people put good work in there. Oppose for runescape fanfiction - helps with nothing, even the heavily outdated players wiki is more useful. Crowborn (talk) 19:14, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Oppose all but foreign language - OS and Classic are their own game. If the developers of either decide they want to implement the title into the said game, then the associated wiki can take care of that. I realise that's probably never going to happen for Classic, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

Darkscape was also its own game. While the player accounts were transferred to RS3, there was no such merge on Wikia and I dont think we should implement such a link.

Players, Clans, Fanfiction, etc. Are all there because they were deemed out of scope for this wiki. The first two are pretty much impossible to source, so how could we ever judge the quality of someone's contributions? Thats assuming they're up to date, which is another problem. I admit, we have the same problem here, but at least any one editor can see if it's outdated. How do you know if a player has changed their display name without having them on your friend list?

The foreign language wikis have the same goal as we do here, and I think the title should reflect that. If someone is willing to give them some much needed love, then I think they should be applauded for that. I would stipulate that this only applies to the Wikia version of a wiki, not a fork such as the Finnish version on ShoutWiki, purely because it makes little sense otherwise.

I'm a bit torn on the answers wiki. On the one hand, it has similar aims as we do here. On the other hand, they've been left for dead by Wikia for years. Anyone trying to make headway with them faces an uphill battle. Therefore, I would defer to Joey's case-by-case proposal here. cqm 09:23, 19 Dec 2016 (UTC) (UTC)

Support for OSRS and foreign language wikis - per TyA. Temujin 12:52, December 23, 2016 (UTC)

Closed - There is no consensus to change the rules for sister affiliates. OSRS, classic, and foreign language wikis are already allowed per previously set rules, so there will be no change at this time. Other sister wikis/affiliates which do not deal with RuneScape content and/or have extinct communities will not be added to the list at this time. Suppa chuppa Talk 11:21, December 28, 2016 (UTC)