Forum:Shutting down the Events Team

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Forums: Yew Grove > Shutting down the Events Team

I think that it's time that we close down the official Events Team. It has been a while now without events running consistently and there doesn’t seem to be anyone interested in picking up the project. The lack of interest in hosting and attending events, notwithstanding the recent good work of RobbotRS, has been a long-term issue with the team. This is not to put down anyone’s work on this project: I simply think that this is the state of the game at this point that there doesn’t seem to be much interest from players in participating in community events. Turn out to events has always been fairly low and it is an uphill struggle to build a consistent attendance at them. The bottom line of why we started with events, to try and attract new people to the wiki, is not really relevant these days with awareness of the wiki already very high among the player base.

I think that we should discontinue the current format of a dedicated team hosting formal/regular events. Discord allows for people to set up impromptu events if they like (I have noticed clannies do this fairly often these days) and we can still host irregular community events like we did for the wikis forking if there are users willing to plan these on a more ad hoc basis.

We would need to:

  • Mark ET pages as historical
  • Archive ET planning channel on Discord
  • Remove ET section from mainpage
  • Adjust ranking system of CC to remove dedicated ET rank

Magic logs detail.pngIsobelJTalk page 16:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Discussion[edit source]

Support - 'tis a sad day, but I think it is for the best. Discord also has the option of creating scheduled server events now, so if we have the occasional big ticket event we could use that functionality in order to advertise it to everyone (along with a message in #welcome maybe since it doesn't get announced in any way at the moment). User talk:ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of User talk:ThePsionic ThePsionic Special:Contributions/ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of Special:Contributions/ThePsionic 16:27, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Fantastic piece written by Kolton down below, which I 100% agree with. I'm changing my vote to reform per his ending statements. User talk:ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of User talk:ThePsionic ThePsionic Special:Contributions/ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of Special:Contributions/ThePsionic 15:58, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Support With Exceptions I joined the events team when names like Oil4 was still around, and i tried my damndest that i could in terms of advertising and what not. I remember i was offered a position in pink skirts and went "nah, i got the wiki." but now, now that i have a job to do and things to do with my life. I still want RS at the forefront of it all, but its hard to try and stay modern when other notable clans dominate the niche we had, coming up with unique ideas are just not there, and events that are fun on paper, but are deemed "less-than-optimal" by the majority that would see it. i still want to host anything i can, but i don't think i can be expected to come up with anything revolutionary to help with putting ET on the map. So i say do away with the events team, but i would still liked to be called for ingame events that can be done yearly like wikifest, or maybe some sort of new minigame of the sort that will come out and surge everyone to come back and play with us. we can keep the ET roles for discord/clan chat just so people can be recognized during these events to know if they can be trusted and what not. I love you Events Team, and even though we are closing you up now, and other then robbots and kings attempts at reviving it last year, you were dead for a while and miss you still. Thefreeman500 (talk) 01:58, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

IDEK what my opinion is... Oppose? Partial support, partial oppose? - It's incredibly hard to put my opinion—the culmination of 10 years of love and frustration—into few words. Please bear with me, I did my best to reduce the fluff and edit my thoughts to be practical to the discussion at hand. The Events Team discussed this before privately and at the time I voiced some weak agreement with the reasons expressed above, but, they simply don't sit right with me. I’ve had some time to think since that discussion and I honestly regret agreeing; I’d be remiss if I didn’t express that. Let’s get started:

In the OP here, you have contradictory reasoning: "I simply think that this is the state of the game at this point that there doesn’t seem to be much interest from players in participating in community events" quickly followed by "Discord allows for people to set up impromptu events if they like (I have noticed clannies do this fairly often these days)." I believe that contradictory reasoning supports my hypothesis; for 2 or 3 years now I have been saying that the ET __itself__ is the source of the lackluster activity, and while I was rude in the way I said it (Something akin to "doing the same thing over and over isn't going to end in different results"; I can't remember specifically) I believe my thoughts are still valid. Throwing 100 people at a math problem won’t help you when you’re not following PEMDAS to begin with.

Part of the reason, I think, is that there's too many cooks on the ET. This issue was the reason for the team’s formation if you look back at the old YG threads (you can't really make community events based on consensus) and the ET, historically speaking, seems to operate at its best when there's few, but passionate members. Even last year we were getting regular members and somewhat decent turnouts but it's exhausting for one or two people to be hosting everything—and hard to balance having events every weekend for consistency—while not burning yourself out. Plus, you host the same event too frequently and people get bored. It's also important to remember that times and material conditions have changed. It's hard to get people to come to minigame events but when we do manage host them the people who come tend to have a blast. However, minigames as a whole are basically dead even if they're a good break from the PVM. That doesn’t leave us in a good place.

I do agree with a few things: the ET should NOT be doing constant events, and I think the members in the ET should be pruned: IIRC more than half the teammates haven’t hosted more than 1 event in 5 years. It’s kind of frustrating to propose ideas and hear responses from people who haven’t really participated at all and yet you need some consensus from those people to proceed. However, I do not think you should shut the team down completely, mark the pages as historical, archive the discord channel, remove the main page section, and restructure the ranks. On the contrary, I believe that like most things in life it’s about finding that balance; there's a decent middle-ground that people are touching on with “infrequent events” but missing: keep the ET around, but do 2—MAYBE 4—events a year max for the time being. That's one event every couple of months and it makes them more special and provides practical benefits. I’ve had to work my heart out to the point of exhaustion with personal-professional projects these past few months; from creation, to management, to marketing, to strategy, to securing funding and talent. It’s exhausting, it’s frustrating, but it really taught me about the importance of quality over quantity. It reminded me that nothing worth paying attention to happened bi-weekly.

Certain events have literally never failed to bring massive attendance, which is the wikifest and hide and seek (free money brings in people? Who'd a thunk lol.) You will note that said events are neither minigames, nor PVM, but a third category in and of themselves. Since even the OP suggests irregular community events, I think that's reason enough to prevent the total shutdown of the ET, but simultaneously, I agree that what we have now is entirely too much given the low output and believe that SOME downsizing should be done. In my opinion, I'd be completely irrational to not argue for that, at a bare minimum—especially considering that once you 9/11 all of the structure in place it’s harder to plan or coordinate (let alone host) even infrequent events of the third kind.

I think it speaks volumes that only 2 people have commentated on this issue thus far. I cannot imagine this same forum being made 5 years ago and people not pouring out of the woodwork to express their opinions. I don't know what to say so I’ll speak from the heart: I find the idea of shutting down the ET almost hurtful. I made some incredible memories for years attending events and I was so excited when my nomination passed and I could finally give back to the community. Even a month or so back I was thinking of coming back to start events again after dealing with some serious IRL issues. That passion is still inside me, but in general, I am the kind of tired that sleep just doesn't fix. You could say that I'm holding onto the past unreasonably and I'd understand where you're coming from. You could even say that what I fell in love with, regarding the ET, never really existed; that I fell in love with a concept in my head of what it was, and I think you might have a point. But I know from the deepest pits of my heart that the sad state of affairs the ET is in, is not even a 1/100th of its current potential and I would be pissed at myself if I did not speak up to this fact.

I see this as an opportunity to do some major restructuring and changes to the ET so that it may continue without being a waste of space, especially since affecting change on the team (due to the issues inherent to the process of consensus via committee) was so hard. While I would love to be involved in that change going forward, even if I wasn't involved, so long as the team continued in some form I would be ecstatic. Moreover, if conditions do change and after a few years of sparse but tremendous events we find that minigames start to explode, (it could happen, weirder things have transpired) having the team and infrastructure around allows for an easier transition and a chance to try again. Closing the team down wholecloth would make such a move relatively hard as you'd have to go backwards through this very bureaucratic and somewhat inflexible process, you feel me? In other words, I think going ham with the proposed plan is a little shortsighted but not entirely understandable.

I have never seen the ET as a way to bring new people to the wiki, nor in my nearly 10 years being involved in the wiki have I seen that attitude w/r/t the team from the people running it. In my mind and experience, it was always about bringing the community together for some fun and I think that's still possible. But times change, and you have to react with them, and I understand that. I’m for change; I WANT change, but I don’t think closing things down is the change to make.

In short, I think that a major restructuring is more in order, rather than a complete destruction of the assets. The general vibe I get from team members and this thread is that they still want events, but they don’t want events like 90% of what we’ve been doing, and that’s okay. I would be kicking myself if the ET died, partially because I feel ashamed for not putting forth as much effort as I could, even if I hosted 100+ events in a couple years. I’m trying to follow the mantra of “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all” but I still feel that I have something to stress, so I won’t point fingers or name names. What I will say is that I’m sort of frustrated with the whole situation—primarily because of what was stated above about people who haven’t done a fraction of what some other teammembers have done but will proudly and loudly put forth their opinions—and you have to work around that. Like I said, “too many cooks” which is the whole issue the ET was formed in the first place.

To summarize:

  • Purge a lot of the ET, we need maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of the people we have
  • Change the type of events hosted to “the third option” such as wikifest, hide and seek, cabbagebombs, all-day-blockbusters, etc
  • Focus on quality, NOT quantity
  • Keep structures inplace but, the ET doesn’t need to appear on the frontpage all the time with only a few events a year

Thank you for your time and allowing me to express myself. I’d love to discuss my points with anyone who would like to talk as I feel this is truly important. With passion,

King Kolton9 (9 more options)  Choose OptionUser Page King Kolton9 (Level: 2860)Talk to King Kolton9Edit Count King Kolton9Chat at IRCMy Pages My SandboxMy Contributions 15:49, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Support - The ET has been a longrunning, occasionally successful project. But it is time for the project to end. The purpose of it has been waning for many, many years. I wish we could keep events going, but we really haven't been able to for a long long time, barring Robbot's joining. I had hoped that Robbot's activity would help revive it, but alas, it petered out when real life came calling, as it did with us all.

To be honest, I don't particularly disagree with much of Kolton's summary. However, I don't think we should keep the structures and such around. We don't need a channel, dedicataed role and rank, or mainpage space for a 'team' that is dead most of the year. We absolutely should keep running things like wikifests, but this is easily run by a 'party planning commitee' formed just for the event from people that want to be involved at the time - nothing as formal as the ET required. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 23:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

If you're going to remove the mainpage space, dedicated role and rank, that's one thing, but I think the bare minimum you should keep is the discord channel for said committe. What, in your mind, would a "party planning committee" consist of/how would you form said committee? King Kolton9 (9 more options)  Choose OptionUser Page King Kolton9 (Level: 2860)Talk to King Kolton9Edit Count King Kolton9Chat at IRCMy Pages My SandboxMy Contributions 02:24, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Threads are a newer tool within Discord that could be perfectly used for these events. Since only tagged folks are able to view/participate in the thread, it will make it a quieter space for planning to take place. As for who would form said committee, I think these events can follow the same nature that we talk about editing: anyone can do it. The less-structured approach might also bring in folks that want to be involved but didn't want to go through the whole process of joining the official Events Team. --Legaia2Pla · ʟ · 16:20, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
If they didn't want to really go through the trouble of joining the events team then they probably wouldn't put in the actual effort required to help with an event. Moreover: The whole reason the ET was founded was because "everyone joins in!" makes planning events very hard. It has already been done and was a nightmare. Discord has a new feature that allows you to make a threa" but I don't see how that would help you actually plan and organize an event any differently from a dedicated channel... because it's basically just a dedicated channel that expires; and it wouldn't be "as quiet" because now you're bringing in more people. Moreover, less structure in event creation leads to less structure in event execution IMO. Too many cooks already happens when you have <10 people on the team, I shudder to think of what would happen with 30+ people. King Kolton9 (9 more options)  Choose OptionUser Page King Kolton9 (Level: 2860)Talk to King Kolton9Edit Count King Kolton9Chat at IRCMy Pages My SandboxMy Contributions 17:35, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
I don't really agree with this. From personal experience it's much easier to get involved in planning and hosting a one-time event, than it is to formally join some team, make a week-long request, etc. The successful one-off events have primarily been the result of one or two people (often not on the ET) working together for a short intensive burst of effort. ʞooɔ 05:26, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
That kinda proves my point though. It's 2 people working together, not 20 people trying to find some messy consensus.King Kolton9 (9 more options)  Choose OptionUser Page King Kolton9 (Level: 2860)Talk to King Kolton9Edit Count King Kolton9Chat at IRCMy Pages My SandboxMy Contributions 06:06, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
Not sure how that proves your point. My alternative is you just put the relevant people in a group DM and call it good. No need for a formally defined team structure. ʞooɔ 06:11, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
Were you responding to my comments re. "actual effort?" If that's the case than I rescind what I said. I presumed you were responding to my comments re. people involed. Excuse me if I misinterpreted. King Kolton9 (9 more options)  Choose OptionUser Page King Kolton9 (Level: 2860)Talk to King Kolton9Edit Count King Kolton9Chat at IRCMy Pages My SandboxMy Contributions 06:58, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Support - Per Gaz. --Legaia2Pla · ʟ · 16:20, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Support - As the original proposer of the Events Team, it's pretty amazing that it managed to carry on for nearly 11 years...but I think the time has come to hang 'em up. Robbot has done an impressive job revitalizing things for the last year+, but he was kinda the only interested person – and at the end of the day, it's hard for me from a wiki perspective to get excited about regularly scheduled PvM stuff. It's unfortunate that that's where the game community is right now, but we can't attract a crowd for anything besides PvM, which isn't really an area where we can differentiate ourselves from any of the other events groups.

This is in stark contrast to one-off special events like holiday parties, wiki anniversaries, milestones (X thousand articles, whatever), which I think are still awesome, still uniquely us, and still very popular if used with the sitenotice. We should try to do more of those, at least a couple times a year. But I just don't think the Events Team is a useful formalism to organize these – what's much better is ad-hoc groups of people who happen to be excited about planning a specific thing. ʞooɔ 05:26, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

"what's much better is ad-hoc groups of people who happen to be excited about planning a specific thing" Honestly as much as it pains me to say it, that's a perspective I hadn't thought about and one that I agree with.King Kolton9 (9 more options)  Choose OptionUser Page King Kolton9 (Level: 2860)Talk to King Kolton9Edit Count King Kolton9Chat at IRCMy Pages My SandboxMy Contributions 15:49, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Comment - The only reason it's taken me so long to post here is because I've wanted to take the time to gather my thoughts about this. It's true that I really wanted to revitalise the team when I first joined over a year ago, and in my opinion, I think I did that fairly well. The community here was also supportive in the addition to the main page for the events team, it's just a shame real life hit me as it probably did most people on the team and I just didn't have the time anymore. I agree that we should still host the events like wikifest with individuals who wish to help being able to do so. I wouldn't have minded some memory of the events team to linger more than them just being in the archives as it's been something that has been a part of the community for many years. Whether something can or should be done to honour that memory however, is not up to me, but the community to decide.

At least I can say I enjoyed the time I had in the events team, getting to know the team and building a somewhat consistent playerbase that attended my events. It's been a wild ride but all things come to an end. Hazelmere's signet ring.pngRobbotRSOrlando Smith's hat.png 17:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Support - There's no point keeping the current RfET bureaucracy. If people want to help out then we should let them. I like Legaia's idea of using threads, but maybe a new channel needs to be created each time if we need specific permissions. Regarding the ET clan rank: just abolish it. It doesn't need to exist. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 06:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)