Forum:Separate charm drops namespace

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Forums: Yew Grove > Separate charm drops namespace
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This thread was archived on 18 November 2009 by Psycho Robot.

For most tradeable items, there is an associated page in the Exchange namespace. This is useful because edits to the Grand Exchange price (especially automated ones) are simpler, and easier to spot vandalism on. Why not have the charm log for monster drops on a subpage to separate it as well? This data is also continually edited (though perhaps not as frequently), and would benefit from being on its own page. If the charms data were separate, it would mean that you could easily have a template from anywhere on the wiki access the charm drop data. This would allow monster lists to include this information if needed.

It would also make automated updates to charm counts easier. For example, if someone were to write a Windows Sidebar gadget to allow players to keep track of the charms that they obtain as drops, it could have a button to use AJAX to add this data to the charm drop tally. This can still be accomplished with the current situation, but coding for it is much harder than it would be if the log was in its own page.

I propose moving the charm logs for monster drops into subpages to make the data easier to use and update.

I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 01:16, November 11, 2009 (UTC), revised 01:57, November 11, 2009 (UTC) 

Discussion

It is my understanding that each wiki gets two custom namespaces, and we used ours on Exchange: and um... some other one... I forget which. But the point is a separate namespace is not an option. A subpage perhaps? Like "Black Demon/charm log" or something. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 01:23, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

The other one is the Update namespace. --Quarenon  Talk 01:49, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I just discovered the two-namespace limit myself while reading another thread. I had originally thought of using a subpage, but figured that a namespace might me more appropriate because the Exchange is done that way. Now that I rethink it, using a subpage would be easier than a namespace even if creating a new namespace were possible. I have changed my proposal above to reflect this. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 01:57, November 11, 2009 (UTC) 

Comment - I should point out that the namespace issue is strictly a political decision on the part of the Wikia staff, as the technical side of things in terms of adding additional namespaces to a project isn't nearly so complicated. We, in theory, could have as many as 100 different namespaces (and associated talk pages) and still leave room for "standard" namespaces that MediaWiki uses. The real problem comes from the fact that Wikia has to have a professional technician who has root access to the raw configuration files that this website uses to make a "manual" adjustment to that file and run a special script to rename pages in order to create the namespace. From a pure dollars and cents viewpoint, it is a USD $100 operation in terms of labor and server resources involved (more or less on that order of magnitude of costs). This isn't something to trivially propose unless something significant can be added to the community as a whole.

For well established and large wiki communities like ours, we might be able to convince Wikia to make an adjustment for something like this about every other year or so... if there is strong community consensus that this is something we should have and can prove we need it. I don't see the two custom namespace limit being a major issue, other than we have to be able to make a case why a new namespace would be so exceptional and needed. The limit is there simply to force communities to use common sense when making requests of this nature. If there is a way we can avoid creating a new namespace, it would be preferred. Subpages might just be a good option. --Robert Horning 13:20, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Question - The subpage idea could be helpful if we had a tool like you're suggesting. Would you be willing and able to write that tool? I could be a helpful way to encourage users to log charm data. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 20:17, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

I am currently working on a tool for automatic submission of charm log data. Hopefully I will be able to get it working and share it with other users. I am planning on creating several tools; one that runs through Windows Sidebar, and one that runs from Adobe Flash Player. I do feel that a new namespace is not necessary, and a subpage could accomplish the same task with far less effort on the part of the Wikia technicians. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 17:22, November 15, 2009 (UTC) 

Comment - The limit is actually three namespaces... Help:Custom_namespaces Hello71 23:55, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Again, this is not a technical issue, but one to keep the number of request down. This FAQ/Help article strongly suggests that any changes to make additional namespaces be done all at one time: for the reason I mentioned in terms of a technician getting involved it doesn't make a difference to do one or three at the same time. Separate requests end up costing more to process in terms of labor costs. --Robert Horning 00:03, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
Since it seems fairly well established that a subpage is more suitable than a namespace, should I move this page to "Forum:Subpage for charm log"? I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 17:52, November 15, 2009 (UTC) 
That might be a good idea. it also might be a good idea to start a new thread, since the first part of this thread is all about an idea which is no longer being suggested. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 21:59, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
Or I could grey out the text or put it under a separate section to signify that it is no longer relevant. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 23:33, November 15, 2009 (UTC) 

Support What's all this nonsense about a namespace? Subpages are where its at. A bot could be made to visit all usages of the {{Infobox Monster}}, analyze the drop list there, and add a sub page if charms are listed on it. I would further suggest that a means be put in to inform players when there is a data sample of, say, less than 500 and that the data may not be a real indicator of the actual charm droprates. Furthermore, what if monsters get updated? I know that a lot of them are due for drop updates. What would happen in that instance? I suggest that the previous data be blanked and we start anew. All in all it sounds like a good idea. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 19:08, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - The monsters in the Chaos Tunnels usually have a higher drop rate of charms than the same monsters in other areas (black demons are a prime example), so we'd probably need an extra table or something for those particular creatures.  Tien  00:56, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Request for closure - This page is far too cluttered with discussion on something that is no longer relevant to discuss. I will create a new page requesting a bot to perform the task of creating subpages (or, alternatively, requesting permission to operate one myself). Psycho Robot, there already is a warning feature when the data is from a small sample built in to the template used for the current charm logs. I think we would continue using this template, or something very near it, with the new subpages. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 22:15, November 18, 2009 (UTC) 

Closed - Discussion will continue on the new topic. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 22:18, November 18, 2009 (UTC)