Forum:RuneScape:Real-life Issues

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This thread was archived on 14 December 2010 by Liquidhelium.

Take a look at the respective userpages for Azaz and Liquidhelium. (These are the only two I've seen like this, and they're just examples!) Both use USA political party propaganda as a focal point, and I had a conversation with Chess about whether to outright ban real-life political discussion on the wiki. My motive behind the suggestion was to reduce the likelihood of flame wars breaking out over political matters, as perfectly good users could be led to leave messages on other users talk pages concerning their views. The user responds, and before llong, there's a full-on debate raging, which has nothing to do with the wiki. It's been proposed before that we remove strongly political aspects, since they are "very touchy subjects in real life".

However, users should be able to control their own userspace, and Chess and I established that a limit would require a whole lot of common sense, which varies from person to person, making the limit ineffective. Plus, a limit's been suggested before. Instead, Chess suggested that

[17:44] <Chess|busy> I think an essay would do better

so I'm sort of proposing this on his behalf.

I propose that we write an essay, crafted to make users think twice about the amount of real-life debate they start/participate in. IT WOULD NOT BE A BREACH OF THE RULES TO POST LARGE AMOUNTS OF PROPAGANDA! It would merely be to get people to stop and consider what they might start by writing about how terrible Labour is, how amazing the Conservatives are (I live in Britain, just using those as examples), etc.

That's about it. Real Nub 18:06, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - I are omnomnom. Real Nub 18:06, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I don't see how it could possibly hurt. It doesn't stop freedom of speech as the reason of oppose on previous threads, since it's an essay, and it has a chance of reducing the possibility of any flamewar. bad_fetustalk 18:10, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - How many "essays" do we have on this wiki? Too many. There's no need, people can say what they want, but sometimes what they say does go over the top and can become offensive/annoying. That's why I'm neutral. --Callofduty4 18:31, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think that we need at least some way of provoking users to consider what they're doing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in free speech, but what harm could it do? Real Nub 20:27, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - I have not seen any flame wars erupt over anything like real-world politics. An essay is also unnecessary in this case, especially when considering that most of the things covered in such a RLI essay can easily be covered in something like DBAD. --LiquidTalk 20:48, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

DBAD is meant to cover...well, not being a dick. I'm not about to say someone's being a dick by stating their views, so invoking DBAD is sort of breaking UTP, by saying that someone's views make them a dick. All it'll do is suggest that maybe it isn't such a good idea. Real Nub 20:57, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - This will in no way influence the decisions made by editors concerning what they will put on their user pages. If they feel strongly enough about a hot button issue, they will add it to their page no matter what an essay of this sort says. Therefore the people who you are targeting this essay at are exactly the sort of people who would ignore it, not that its a bad thing. It just means the essay would be pointless. Now, if someone goes around deliberately starting flame wars, or harassing someone based on their beliefs, then it is a breech of RS:UTP and they can be dealt with accordingly. That said, while I don't think it would do any good, it also doesn't do any harm, so I don't particularly care if its made or not. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 20:51, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Pointless. Andrew talk 21:08, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - I am trying to enjoy liberty, now shoo. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 21:52, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Liquid/pointlessness. I think users should be able to put whatever they want on their userpages, as long as it is not blatant flaming. I happen to like Liquid's page, and I respect him for his strong beliefs/views. If a passing user disagrees with something on someone's page, they should have enough common sense not to start a flame war, and if they do - they should be the one "punished". Another essay would serve no purpose here that isn't already stated in other essays/pages. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 00:36, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Murph says -repeat what Psycho said with a small addition. People who post anything of a controversial nature know what they are doing. They are aware that they may draw a response from some other users of the wiki. As long as they can handle what the response might be, no problem. The flip side is if they start having a problem with the responses, then they need to remove the material. Not whine about it. (No I am not saying anyone ever has, to my knowledge.) As long as the UTP is not being breached, deal with it.--Degenret01 00:51, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Spamming someone's talk page with identical five word messages, and creating a template for the sake of preloading said messages, isn't an appropriate way of dealing with controversial statements that one disagrees with. And these messages can be removed from a talk page per RS:DDD and RS:UCS. Dtm142 18:47, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose 16px‎AtlandyBeer.png 01:37, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - It's not that bad an idea but an essay just probably wouldn't do anything to stop it. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 04:03, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Question - I thought you didn't need consensus to write an essay... Matt (t) 04:39, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

If it's in the project namespace (RuneScape and RuneScape talk), it should be taken before the community. However I wouldn't swear that it's protocol to take it here, albeit I wouldn't take on UCS or BB for any essay without community approval. Ryan PM 06:29, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Good luck convincing Liquid that liberals are not the source of the worlds problems. 222 talk 05:32, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - If a flamewar ever broke out, we just warn/ban the ones responsible. Not too complicated and always loads of fun. Also, as said above, DBAD pretty much covers this. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 20:20, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

No. Censorship on this level is not something I can support. I do not like some of the things on Liquid's userpage, but right from the start I knew that it would be wrong to try to get him to remove them. We already have rules against flamewars; enforce those if necessary instead of creating new ones. (I need a "RuneScape:Don't be unnecessarily bureaucratic" page to which I can link in 90% of the YG threads in which I post.) --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 21:24, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

You do know that it is an essay right? bad_fetustalk 21:57, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Support - It's just an essay. It's only purpose is to show someone's personal opinion on things and to give you a different view of things. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 22:03, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Some people seem to think I want to stop people putting statements about real-world issues on their userspace. I am not attempting to do anything like that. All I'm putting forward is the idea of writing an essay about it, that's all. Nobody has to read it, nobody has to remove anything from their userpage. Real Nub 22:18, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

You can write an essay on your userpage...nobody is stopping you 16px‎AtlandyBeer.png 22:19, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
You can say the same thing for other essays too. bad_fetustalk 23:07, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per my argument on the link provided in the proposal. The essay shouldn't be directed toward the people who aren't at fault. Even if you were to change this so the essay is directed toward those who are at fault (the people who start the flaming), we have other policies and essays (UTP, DBAD) to take care of the problems that may arise.  Tien  00:13, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - I don't know why there is a problem. Politics don't really have a place on the wiki, and nor do essays. Any other solutions? Rune battleaxe.png RangedwhipRune battleaxe.png 16:03, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

We already have several essays on the wiki. bad_fetustalk 18:35, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose - You can write the essay if you want. It just won't become policy most likely. Opposing per above. HaloTalk 01:20, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose as instruction creep. Write the essay if you want but it most likely will not become policy.

Noobs are very tasty · Vector Skin!Edit this page

01:22, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

He is suggesting an essay, not a policy.... svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 01:42, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Write the essay I have looked and looked and found only one case where there was any sort of agreement on an essay. That being of course on whether we can have DBAD instead DBAN. So unless I am missing it somewhere, anyone is free at any time to write an essay and link it off that essay page. that is how the other ones ended up there. It says quite clearly that an essay is the opinion of one or more wikians, not the wiki as a whole. You should have just done so to start off. Like a guy I used to know would often say "You get a lot more done by doing it than by asking permission first".--Degenret01 09:53, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - My reasoning is that the purpose of the essay would be directed at a few individuals. But I am disappointed that it is on one of our sysop's userpage. They should know better than to put something really controversial on their userpage. However, I am equally as disappointed in the reaction as well. Spamming up somebody's userpage is not the way to go to show disapproval. In conclusion, please try to keep userpages as controversial-free as possible. Farming cape (t).png Lil cloud 9 Talk 13:01, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I have written it here, so I guess the proposal is...er...withdrawn? I dunno. Anyway, tell me what you think. Real Nub 20:17, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - There isn't a consensus here to put the essay in the RuneScape namespace, but Real Not Pure is free to do anything in his userspace, which he now has. Anyways, this proposal is closed. --LiquidTalk 23:03, December 14, 2010 (UTC)