Forum:Rollback Quiz

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This thread was archived on 18 September 2010 by Stelercus.

I just finished a quiz in my Userspace using Quarenon's Calculator that can be used to help a user determine if they are knowledgeable enough about the rollback tool to be trusted with it. The questions are designed to ensure that even if you cheat or get something wrong, a short message after each answer will give you some useful bits of information. Regardless of what somebody scores on this quiz, it should provide the user with all the information they need to use the tool correctly if they read their entire score sheet. I would like community consensus to move it into the Projectspace and make it required for those hoping to attain the tool (similar to how we ask users to have read several pages before adding their names to the list of those requesting the tool). One should not be expected to prove they have taken it or provide their score, but we will assume that they are good people and have actually done it (there is no reasonable way to prove they have not cheated to start with).

User:Stelercus/Rollback Quiz

Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:25, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - As nom. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:25, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support - This should be helpful. But when someone gets something wrong, you should not have it say "False", it should say "Incorrect". Right? ʞooɔ 23:28, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

I was just talking to Berserkhackr in game who mentioned there are no instructions specified (I will get to that). You can assume it's a true/false quiz as to if it's okay to use the rollback button or not. the wording "False" sounds fine to me, but we can fix it if people are really not getting it. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:33, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
Late in the discussion, but you're missing the point Stelercus: It's really confusing when you label incorrect answers as "False: ...". You're lead to believe that the correct answer was "false" which isn't always true. Cool idea though. I'd like more of these. They're a quick fun way to get people on the same page when it comes to policies. As a motivation for green editors to take the quizzes, it might be worth giving a link to a badge that states the user's score on the quiz. Endasil (Talk) @  04:22, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Question 6 bothers me. I would never use rollback just because someone changed a couple words. They might not understand that what they are doing is wrong. Andrew talk 23:41, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking of this edit at the time. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:44, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
^^ and I see you undid it, yet the quiz says to use rollback, no? Perhaps the question should be worked so it implies more than just a couple words, because that example was definitely more than a couple words. Andrew talk 23:47, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
I could go through and change the question. See, when I undid all that stuff, the vandal hunted me down in game and trolled me around for it. I had not laughed so hard in a long, long time. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:55, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Good quiz, i got 100% =), but can you change the answers to rollback/undo instead of true/false?Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 01:06, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose Changed to conditional support below - Great work with the quiz, but it misses one important detail: context. For example, question three: A user blanks a page. If that was the user's first unproductive edit, then I would assume good faith and say that it wasn't intentional (things can happen, I know a whole bunch of people who have accidentally blanked pages). If that user had just gone on a spree blanking ~20 pages, I may be more inclined to assume that the said user has a harmful intent. Question 4: A user breaks the style guide when editing. First of all, what exactly did that user do to break the style guide? Have they done it, and been warned about it before? Question 5: A user inserts inappropriate content into a page. First of all, what did they put in? If it was something like a random "poo" at the end, I would assume that they were just testing. If they added a paragraph that ruins all progress made to make African-Americans equal over the last 100 years, then I would assume it was vandalism. Also, again, is this their first time doing it? Context is everything. Question 6: A user replaces words to make the article humorous. Most likely not bad faith, but once again, what were the words? Have they done it before?

My point is this. Either we (because I'd gladly help) need to expand the questions to a paragraph clearly detailing the circumstances in which the edit occurred, or we should do what I think is best: Assign rollback after seeing a trend of good counter-vandalism judgment. Then we truly get the best people. ajr 04:18, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

So you check an ip contribs before deciding whether to undo or revert?Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 04:21, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
That makes no sense. Have you actually read any of this? ajr 04:23, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
Also, to clarify, I will always oppose the idea of rollback being handed out per quiz results. What makes this a strong oppose is that lack of context in the questions. ajr 05:00, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
I think the crat who decides rollback should just check the user's contribs and use their better judgement on wether or not they actually deserve it. scoot4.pngscooties 04:23, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
But contribs don't tell the full story. You know very little about a person overall from just their contribs. That's why added precautions are necessary (supposing we give noratelimits right-because that could make a quick problem.) Otherwise it's fine, because rollback can be undone very easily. HaloTalk 04:32, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
What i was saying is that how do you know If that was the user's first unproductive edit or not from any other way other than checking contribs(unless you have a perfect memory of numbers and edits).Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 05:24, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
That should be a criticism of the quiz, not my response. The point is that the quiz doesn't go into that detail. All it says is that a user inserts inappropriate stuff into an article. It doesn't tell us whether or not they've done it before, or what exactly was put in. How can one check the contribs of an unknown vandal in a quiz scenario? Once again, have you actually read any of this, or did you see a few key words and go from there? ajr 05:21, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
Per IRC discussion, I understand what he meant now. The point is that you can't check contribs on a quiz scenario, and since the quiz doesn't specify it, you don't know. That means the quiz isn't specific enough. ajr 05:27, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
True. Can you add some more context to the quiz? (Earlier contributions, constructive edits, etc) ʞooɔ 00:50, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
I'd be glad to (if that was addressed at me), however, I still think that the best thing to have is experience. ajr 01:41, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I took the quiz and was surprised to find that I got 2 wrong. I am in agreement with Ajr here. Clarifying needs to be done. However, I'd also say we can't expect it to be perfect, because it's hard to emulate what happens in the field. HaloTalk 04:32, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral I agree that it's a great quiz, but as per Ajr, I think context should definitely be taken into account. Suppa chuppa Talk 04:47, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I think the quiz is helpful for people who have just gotten rollback rights and are a bit unsure about them, but I don't think it should be a deciding factor in whether the rights are gained or not, due to the issue of context that Ajr brought up. But perhaps it could be kept somewhere simply to help people learn about when to rollback even if it isn't a requirement for people to get the rights. insaneular The original Hazelnut spread 13:51, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Remember, what one scores on the quiz will not make a difference in the end. All that matters is that they take it and read the score sheet. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 13:55, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - So there is no minimum requirement for the test, does that really mean there are no additional requirements, you just have to answer questions and read a page, there should be at least some requirement.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 00:31, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

The sub-proposal does not take the place of the proposal the thread was created for. I just don't like the idea of multiple threads for the same thing. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 01:11, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Note about test I think your missing one of the points of the 30 day/200 edit req. While we are all about AGF, we know that someday that idiot with his vandal bots will be back. This requirement is likely to keep him from getting the no page move limit, as I do not see him being dedicated enough to get 200 edits per vandal account. A test in addition to the time/edit req is good (once it is fixed), but it should not replace the time/edit req. Which does have very easy standards. For those who are here to help.--Degenret01 06:16, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

I just told Sentra that this does not replace your proposal. I just didn't want to make a third thread on the same general topic. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 09:37, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - When I proposed the test above. I was assuming what Degen just stated. I meant it as an additional deterrent to vandals, and a confirmation users know when to appropriately use the tool. HaloTalk 06:18, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - (Damn, everything except no. 6 correct...) I think that the questions need to be made a bit harder, those ones had either a "definitely true" or "definitely false" answer. They need to test a user's ability to assume faith and give leeway, and on edits they are unsure about, merely undo. - [Pharos] 13:56, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

I tried as hard as I could to make them less definitive, but if you don't give them enough information then it becomes impossible to judge. Ajr has asked that I provide more information, though I have not done this because it would make each question a dead giveaway. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 21:39, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with that, there is no point here in trying to be tricky. We are not offering a 15k a year job, it is the simple rollback button. If the questions are not clear, then the student will not learn. You give fuzzy scenarios and it will not inform.--Degenret01 04:39, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
If each question is a dead giveaway, they will not get that much out of it. I am not trying to be tricky, I am just trying to get them to think. The student in question will learn something, regardless of their score. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 13:31, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
What your missing is personal interpretation. When I see it as non vandalism and the test says it is, the test will tell anyone else taking it that it is vandalism. So, the test misinforms our users. What is the learning there? To treat all honest mistakes as vandalism? Read RS:AGF, then reexamine your test. It fails to account for AGF man, and that is not good.--Degenret01 14:34, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
I have no idea what you are talking about when you say it does not account for AGF. The quiz mentions more than once, if I remember correctly, that mistakes are never to be rollbacked. Can you tell me what questions in particular you are talking about? Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 19:20, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Yell at me all you wish, but (undo)s only need to be used in cases in which other editors might question why the edit was reverted. The warning or message that you give the user who made the edit is what counts for them. Simply, the talk page message is for the benefit of the editor, and the summary is for the benefit of everyone else. You don't rollback obviously good faith edits because there will be questions from other editors as to why you reverted them. Anyways, I won't make a big deal out of this. From past experience I find that most people know all that they want to know about this stuff :P ajr 04:08, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Split from original discussion - Ajr requested the other discussion be closed, though this one appears incomplete. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 16:40, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

I don't like question 3 or 6. Blanking a page does not immediately mean that its vandalism. It could be done as an accident or an attempt to have a clean slate to edit on. As far as editing an aritcle to be humourous, I don't see how its vandalism, unless the content is offensive. In the example you provided I would not have reverted the edit, just undone it and explained why. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 04:51, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Question six was marked as having problems because I didn't know how to describe this edit. Even if page blanking was done by mistake, I don't see a problem with rollbacking it. The user should understand (though I really can't imagine that kind of thing happening). Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 12:46, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Alternate proposal - I created a derivative of Stelercus's quiz in my userspace at User:Liquidhelium/Rollback Quiz. Since a description of the general type of edit is open to the user's own interpretation, I have added links to sample edits to sample edits to eliminate any ambiguity. This should ensure that everyone is on the same page when answering those questions. Note, however, that I have not changed any of the answers from Stelercus's version, and while question 6 is cleared up, the fate of the answer to question 3 is debatable, since the page I picked as an example (Acetic acid) is quite short, and accidental deletion is quite possible. Please give feedback on the quiz.

There is a technical issue that I would like to resolve: I would like to have the links open in a new window/tab when clicked, so that the user does not lose his or her progress on the quiz, but I do not know how to do that, nor do I want to bother to find out. So, if anyone knows how to do it, your help is appreciated. --LiquidTalk 02:17, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Right clicking the link and selecting new window/tab should be common sense. Good work with the Quiz. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 02:46, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Conditional support - I like the helm's modifications to it, however, I would still like to see it as an optional activity. ajr 14:00, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Of course that would be the case. The way I envision it, the quiz is merely a resource for users to test themselves if they so choose. A simple note and a link from the rollback page is sufficient. If this were made mandatory in any way, I would oppose the survey. --LiquidTalk 02:26, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
I thought that this was proposed as a requirement for rollback, so thanks for clearing that up. ajr 15:16, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Alternate proposal - I've cleaned up Liquidhelium's version so it's easier to read and more clear on some parts User:9the Enigma9/Sandbox. What's everyone think? — Enigma 03:32, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

The layout looks worse in my opinion but the answers box is better with the question in it. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 08:04, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

About Liq's test -

Question 3: A user blanks a page.

False - Page blanking is not constructive, obviously, and should be reverted as quickly as possible. Remember to warn the user of their vandalism on their talk page using a template such as {{No Vandal}}.

This can be an accident. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody!

You forget that the edit summary isn't for the benefit of the "vandal", it's for the benefit of other editors looking through the history and wondering why you reverted it. In this case, nobody would have any questions about why you [rollback]ed that instead of (undo) with a custom summary. The message that you leave on their talk page, which would be a {{Test2}} in this case, is what informs the "vandal" what they did wrong. ajr 13:56, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
I said above that I just modified the format of the quiz and added examples. I didn't actually change any of the answers; you guys can debate whatever you want about it. --LiquidTalk 16:35, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Request for closure - There is rough consensus to implement some form of Rollback Quiz, debate continues here on whether the quiz should be mandatory or not. The closing admin should decide which version quiz looks best and is grammatically correct. For now the quiz should remain optional. 222 talk 07:22, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal Retracted - The modifications to the quiz by other users are far superior to the original version I proposed. I encourage one of them to propose their version of the quiz when they are ready. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 14:56, September 18, 2010 (UTC)