Forum:Revamp the clan citadel raffle
Our citadel raffle has been in decline for some time now. Looking at the spreadsheet of entries you can see that we just barely have the required 5 entrants to run the raffle most weeks, and that there have been multiple weeks where the raffle was not run due to lack of interest. Recently clan citadels received a update, which boosted experience gained from skilling at the citadel, however this has not resulted in more people capping and entering the raffle. The same update also greatly reduced the number of players needed to cap and meet the citadel upkeep requirements to ensure we can keep access to things like the clan avatars, so it no longer seems necessary to encourage a large group of clan members to cap at the citadel each week. I suggest that we take the opportunity to see if we want to continue running the raffle as we are now. There are a couple of options:
- Discontinue the raffle
- Modify the raffle. The recent Events Team raffle was open to all clan members and received much more interest/applicants. Perhaps we could follow this example and have a general "clan raffle" open to all clan members who had gained some experience in the last week, with a bonus for those who had capped at the citadel.
- Leave the raffle as is, perhaps get some new raffle helpers to promote it better.
Support 2 - this is a good opportunity to make a more general bonus/event to players who are in our clan. I have some ideas for this which I can propose if people are interested in modifying the raffle.12:21, December 27, 2017 (UTC)
1 - The raffle was intended as an incentive for people to keep our Citadel at Tier 7, so that features like the clan avatar/plots could be used. The incentive is no longer necessary, and people can happily use those features without worrying about an upkeep. There's no need to reward people further for being in the clan... at least... not weekly. Maybe we could have monthly raffles, but it just seems pointless. Haidro 13:41, December 27, 2017 (UTC)
Support 2 - I would like to see what ideas Isobel (and any other Wikians) would have for a different raffle. As Haidro said above, recent changes mean that incentivising citadel capping really is not necessary. I would be in support of some kind of monthly raffle for participating in some type of activity/event. (One of the events for one month might still be capping in the citadel - 1 ticket entered for each week capped, up to 4 entries per player, etc). I have a few ideas for various other events as well, but rather than write it up here, I will wait to see if a majority is in support of modifying the raffle.17:07, December 27, 2017 (UTC)
- Despite having a large number of people in the clan not many of our clan members are active, as you can see here. This has a bad effect on the clan as often there are not many clan members online to be chatting in the clan chat etc. My idea was that we give an extra reward for being in our clan and gaining over a certain amount of xp in the week, which might encourage clan members to be more active or at least encourage some new, active players to join our clan. 10:35, December 31, 2017 (UTC)
Comment - I'd just like to question why notion 2 is related besides reward pool concerns. I feel like the only real options here in terms of the citadel raffle are #1 and #3 with an overall clan raffle being a separate discussion entirely. bad_fetustalk 09:49, December 28, 2017 (UTC)
Support 2 - Maybe make it open to anyone, capped or not, but instead people can donate on their own terms and when the pile reaches the price of a bond, that’s when the raffle is announced. That would be more interesting, but less frequent. Maybe everyone who enters has one chance and people who cap get an extra chance User:Manhattan2/signature I’m on my phone not logged in lol.
Support 2 - Keep it open but add another purpose to it. The clan bank currently has a lot of money lol enough to fund the raffle as it is for eternity. I was in favor of ramping up the prize money before because there was no way we were gonna put a dent into it at this rate. But now that this is being discussed, yes please change the numbers and change the rules because I don’t think we’re gonna be hosting hide and seek events enough to use the money we have available.16:59, January 5, 2018 (UTC)
Support 2 - As long as you have the funds for it, I don't see why not. People are saying it's pointless for rewarding people for just being in the clan, but how is this a bad thing? If the funds are there it's just a nice extra thing to have, with those who are capping still getting a bonus.00:48, January 6, 2018 (UTC)
Discontinue the raffle in its current form and replace with a new weekly raffle, running from one citadel build tick to the next. Gaz/the Events Team have kindly offered to share some of the ET funds for this so we can offer some more generous prizes :)
- The raffle will be open to all recruit and corporeal ranked clan members who gain at least 100,000 experience during the week.
- Members who gather over 1,350 resources (half cap) at the clan citadel will be entitled a second raffle entry. Members who do a full cap (2700 resources) will be entitled to a third entry.
- A new clan raffle page will be created for eligible clan members to sign up as raffle entrants. Events team + ranked clan members will be able to add other clan members upon request. Players may also sign themselves up, but extra entries based on citadel contributions must be verified by events team+ clan members. Any entries that cannot be verified before the next build tick will be discounted.
- Prior to the raffle being drawn, RuneScape:Clan Chat/hiscores overview will be used to verify that all entrants have gained the required amount of experience over the week. Any entrants that do meet the requirement will be discounted.
- The raffle will have 2 prizes: first = 1 bond, second = 5m gp. The winners will be drawn via random number generator. Winners will have 28 days to collect their prize from an events team+ clan member before the prize expires and is put back into the raffle prize pool.
- In the event of a clan member leaving the clan before collecting their prize, the prize shall be returned to the prize pool.
- Only the account that wins a prize may collect that prize. Any unwanted prizes shall be returned to the prize pool.
- Ironman players will not be allowed to enter the raffle.
- Gaz will be responsible for maintaining the prize pool and for reimbursing clan members who have awarded prizes using these funds.
12:39, January 7, 2018 (UTC)
Comment - I know the Ironman thing has been mentioned to you already but I think a weekly bond is a bit much, maybe a monthly bond every 4 weeks would still be generous without overdoing it. Supposing a bond (buy price, not even considering conversion to tradeable) is 17m then that would be 22m weekly if there was a bond every time. If it was a bond per four weeks then it would be 9.25m and we could keep up that rate for just about 2 years if we didn’t take money out for ET events or whatever. In regard to bonds, it might be worthwhile to just give the person approximately the price of a bond to save on the conversion cost but that’s a smaller issue. The extra 1.7m or so would add up over time though. I agree with everything else07:59, January 8, 2018 (UTC)
- Hmm perhaps having a weekly draw with 3 cash prizes as we do now (3m, 2m and 1m?) and then having a "monthly" bond raffle based off the player's entries from 4 weeks of weekly raffles? Ironmen could enter the monthly raffle but not the weekly one (i.e. any ironman winners in weekly raffle would be redrawn until there was a non-ironman winner).
13:40, January 9, 2018 (UTC)
- Support - the above amended suggestion 23:35, January 9, 2018 (UTC)
Comment - While I agree that the raffle has become obsolete I have a few concerns with this proposal:
- I can see this becoming annoying to implement. The XP tracker page we use doesn't handle namechanges. When I asked Proofie to write this script for me all those years ago, I asked her to dump the list of "new" names and "gone" names onto the talk page. As the original intended use was for inactivity kicklists, this implementation was fine, as it was presumed that anyone who was around to change his or her name was by definition not inactive. However, for the purposes of an XP tracker, the name change would have to be tracked manually verified ingame, and the XP would have to be manually compared. If a namechange happens twice in between updates to the XP tracker page, then verification could be lost altogether.
- Is there any particular reason for limiting it to recruits and corporals?
- I think the half-cap thing is a bit excessive. It would be much easier just to record a full cap, especially since it's currently set up as a broadcast.
- Apparently runeclan is able to track xp gains taking account of name changes so this could be used instead. The current raffle excludes those involved in the raffle; I proposed keeping the raffle for recruits and corporals only other ranks will hopefully be involved in running the raffle. This will hopefully keep focus on encouraging newer members to be active and avoid any complaints about favouritism/abuse from higher ranked clan members winning the raffle. 16:01, January 10, 2018 (UTC)
Comment - I believe with the implementation we could try it out. I do not know who does it but if we find it too complicated or difficult we should just have a fallback plan.
- Otherwise, would it be that hard to put some of the responsibility on the players? If someone wants to enter then they could take a photo and send it to someone like the raffle helpers at the beginning of the tick and at the end.
- I do wonder why the restriction on enrolling? I have no problem just a wondering.
Comment - I like the idea for the new raffle. The name change issue is something that will need to be looked at, but I am going to assume we will find a solution for that. Per Panjy above, a bond per week does seem to be a bit excessive. What I would propose is that rather than a separate monthly raffle for a bond, we do the weekly raffle awarding the 3 cash (gp) prizes (although I would propose 5m, 3m, and 1m just to bump things up a little bit), and at the end of the month any player who won a weekly prize would be entered into the "grand prize" drawing for a bond. For the grand prize drawing, all players who won one or more of the cash prizes would receive 1 entry into the chance for the bond (ie, if a players wins 1st prize week 1, and also 2nd prize week 3, they still only have one "entry" for the monthly). As for ironmen, as I understand they can't win cash because they can't trade, and I thought this was the same for bonds? From what I am reading, I assume I misunderstood and that ironmen CAN be awarded bonds - in this case, ironmen should be encouraged to enter the weekly drawings. Should they "win", even though they won't get the weekly prize, their name would still be entered into the monthly bond drawing along with the other non-ironmen winners (including those who win the re-drawn prize).17:53, January 14, 2018 (UTC)
Not sure I'm happy with the idea that the winners go on to win further, seems very feel bad if you don't win a weekly01:09, January 18, 2018 (UTC)
- The idea for winners moving on was something like a qualifier round. A bit like a contest on the radio where people call in to try and win (just an example) 2 tickets to a concert, but then at the end of the contest one winner will receive an all expenses paid trip for them and 10 friends to that concert as a "grand prize". I can understand why it would feel bad not to win a weekly, though, so if others feel this way, I am also totally fine with all entrants into the weekly entered into the monthly drawing (with 1 entry per week up to 4 chances to win the grand prize). Just some thoughts on different possible ways of conducting this. 16:45, January 18, 2018 (UTC)
Closed - The majority of the people seems to want an updated version of the clan raffle. The points in Isobel's first proposal hold up well, however some minor adjustments had to be made in order for the raffle to work - that is, have three prizes in GP per weekly raffle, as well as holding a monthly raffle for one bond. The specifics on prizes should be sorted out between Isobel and the Events Team. Finally, only those not related to the raffle may enter (that is, anyone with a rank containing bananas). Ironmen are not excluded from entering the weekly raffle so that they can get their entries in for the monthly raffle, however they may not claim the prizes from the weekly raffle which will be redrawn in case an Ironman gets chosen. The weekly raffle will not function as a qualifier round.
It is also clear that we need a more robust system for tracking name changes. While currently RuneClan does have such functionality, it would be ideal to update the script used for generating the experience tables to also be able to factor these in. This would likely become a task that someone like Gaz or Cook would need to solve seeing as they have more experience with scripting on the wiki. However, updating the script would fall under RS:BB if others want to take a shot at it.
Finally, it should be left to the jurisdiction of the Events Team whether or not to count half-caps as an additional raffle entry. They are also the final responsible entity to update RS:RAFFLE once all elements have been decided on. 12:07, January 19, 2018 (UTC)