Forum:Request to Remove Btz's Ban

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Forums: Yew Grove > Request to Remove Btz's Ban
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This thread was archived on 27 March 2010 by Calebchiam.

I personally have no interest in this aside from protecting the integrity of community consensus as the ultimate arbiter of decision within the wiki. Bonziiznob has requested for Btz to be unblocked and as such I will oblige in creating the topic.

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Helm of neitiznot (charged).png Azaz129 Crystal shield.png Talk Edits Contribs

03:48, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Offence history

Comment from Bonzi

As posted from Azaz's talk page:

Community is gone, as well as the trust. We are a community and we are about overcoming and forgiving. In an RfA I was selected by the community to make choices for the betterment of the community based on my judgment. I was given these tools based on that. When it comes time that I can't bring back a user I feel will benefit the community without getting permission to use these tools...something is up. I will unblock him again unless two things happen:

1) I am desysopped 2) I wish him to be unblocked during the course of his unblock discussion in the yew grove. Here he can post at free will giving him the opportunity to post and show the community he has changed for the better and to post at free will the discussion concerning him. If consensus is to have him remain banned, I will accept his ban.

Sorry Azaz, but I must oppose this. Being Bold, Assuming Good Faith, Ignoring all rules or what have you. I have to do what I feel is the right thing to do. Like I told Caleb "A man steals to live...but you don't throw him in jail for living do you? You must! It's against the law!"....you do throw him jail...but Morally is it the right thing to do?

Bonziiznob Talk

03:50, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

My tools have been removed. But I still support his unbanning. Good luck Btz! 04:11, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - I support his unban. I also support his immediate unban as of this post so he can post at free will this discussion concerning him and to have the opportunity to show the community he has indeed changed for the better. Note to community: I will unban and continue to unban him for the remainder of this discussion, unless BTZ says otherwise.

Bonziiznob Talk

03:54, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - In the past, Btz refused to listen to warnings, continued to flame and eventually earned himself a permanent ban. However, many months have passed since then and I genuinely believe he has changed. Btz has made constructive contributions to Yew Grove discussions (via his talk page) and, when he was temporarily allowed back into the clan chat, against community consensus, he didn't stir up trouble. I think it's time we give this user a second change - a clean slate so he can become a valued editor. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  04:52, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support- Call me a sucker, but I've always lived believing that no matter what, people can change. I understand that Btz has shown his inability to become a better person from previous trials, but from what I have seen recently, I feel he has humbled himself and shown through discussion that he can and will positively contribute to this wiki if we unblock him. The fact that he still stayed with us after being permanently blocked shows his will to become a better person. With a little guidance, I'm sure he will overcome his obstacles. People can change a great deal in the course of a year, and I think that it would be wonderful to have him join the wiki again. As an additional comment: I feel extremely saddened over what has happened between Azaz and Bonzi. Please don't tear each other apart during this discussion. When the discussion forms, please remember to only attack the argument and not the player.Best Shield EVERAnnaLove scarves! 04:57, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - From my view, I believe he has improved his behaviour, and deserves to be unblocked. He has, in my opinion, done as much as he can to show he wishes to return and be part of the community. Chicken7 >talk 05:28, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support - It has been long enough. Not much else needs to be said. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!I have 12 friends. 06:26, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - He's shown good behaviour in the CC. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 08:37, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - While I don't have that much first-hand knowledge of him (before or after the ban), he does seem to have made a very significant effort to change. He has knocked four times. 17:27, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per my reason here.  Tien  20:28, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Shouldn't btz request himself to me unblocked on his talk? I have not seen that. Dragon helm.png Team6and7 Talk Dragon boots.png 21:53, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

He is able to post on his talk page, if/when he does so there are several of us willing to post what he says to this discussion.--Degenret01 21:59, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Support - 1) because we said we would review his block after he's had a chance in the CC, and no one's made any complaints to my knowledge so I would surmise that everything is going fine. 2) because he seems sincere in his efforts to make amends and wants to be a part of the community. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 23:32, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per all. If he continues with his old ways, he can be blocked again. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 06:50, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - I am a rather new contributor to the wiki, and thus have not had any experience with Btz. But, based simply on the evidence that has been provided, along with his block log and other community discussions regarding him, I believe that unblocking him would be a mistake. It seems that he has been offered several reprieves before, and has promised to change, but he has, after a varying period of time, reverted to his old, immature and inappropriate ways. I think that doing this would simply be a nightmare for all involved. If you're reading this, Btz, I'm sorry. I don't mean this personally. Cook Me Plox 07:03, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Comment from Btzkillerv - I currently have no comments about the unblock, and I think it is best for me to not say anything, I'm not sure if I'm worth Bonzi sacrificing his Adminship, through. Explorer's ring 3.pngBtzkillerv has entered the building! Cape (blue).png 11:05, March 18, 2010 (UTC) Karlis (talk) (contribs) 14:03, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I haven't been on the wikia for that long of a time, but i think everyone deserves another chance, especially after such a long time. BerserkHackr 19:10, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Btz's banning occured right after I joined the wiki, so I don't know too much about it. But, I've seen Btz in the Wiki CC a couple of times and he seems to have a good attitude and seems to be a nondisruptive user. So, I say we give him a second chance. --LiquidTalk 19:12, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - Im right in between on if to unblock or not. At first i think "ya everyone deserves a second chance" but then i think "over 55 offences" mmmmm well it doesnt look like its going to matter how i vote since it looks like hes going to stay unbaned. --Axx1000 19:39, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support - He's a great guy, Looking back at his past, I can see he's definatly changed.   Swizz Talk   Events!   21:13, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support - He's gotten much better with the time, and I can see he's changed a lot. During most of today's wikifest(or at least until the point I had to leave), he was one of the people who tried to maintain order the most, and he is calm and non-disruptive now. And Axx, in this thread, supports mean supports to unblock him. Quest point cape detail.png Brux Talk 23:01, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Comment Just to be very very clear to everyone here, BTZ will not start over with a clean slate. Just as a repeat vandal gets longer and longer blocks for their disruptive editing, his entire block and offense history will be considered should the need to block him ever rise up again. I for one do hope that need never will arise, but I wanted to make sure no one was misunderstanding this. If anyone says that is not fair, then I will simply point out it is our style here to give longer and longer blocks based on a persons history, and doing the same to BTZ is a matter of RS:AEAE.--Degenret01 00:37, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly true. Blocking users, who have already been blocked, for a longer period of time is, in a nitpicky way, against RS:AEAE - not everyone gets the same block. Just my two cents. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 09:39, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Degen on this one. In the real life justice systems, the only way an offense is wiped from a person's record is if a) the offense is found to be false, in which case it is thrown out, or b) the offender is a minor, and the offense is something small, that a court has ruled a community service punishment is sufficient. Obviously, b) does not apply here, and a) does not apply either since those offenses are legitimate violations of wiki policy. --LiquidTalk 12:02, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not saying that I want his 'record' to be ignored in the future. What I mean is that treating people differently if they have been blocked in the past, is not necessarily RS:AEAE as Degen makes it seem (at least in my interpretation of what he said). Just sayin'. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 19:40, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
Oli please go study the block history of vandals for a while. ALL vandals get longer and longer blocks when they vandalize after a block expires. AEAE indeed, he will be treated the same as them IF he returns to old form. I do 'not expect him to, and I most certainly hope he does not. I do not want to block him, I am not looking forward to blocking him. He will not be treated differently from anyone else with his history.--Degenret01 19:55, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
I have never said that you want to block Btz, I have never accused you of looking forward to blocking him. All I said was, is it really AEAE to block repeated vandals longer than others? I was not at all saying that you have something against Btz, I was not saying that it is bad that repeated vandals get longer blocks, I was just throwing something out there. I was just thinking out loud. Big deal. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 14:29, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Comment from Btzkillerv - To Degenret - As I said before, I cannot convince you about whether I have changed or not, It is up to you, you said that I will not turn over a clean slate (I assume it is a metaphor for saying that I will not change and revery back to my old ways), and I accept that you will uphold that decision. I just hope that your decision is not based on personal contempt and is rather one based on the legitimiate reasons. In my formal apology above on the talkpage I mentioned the quote about a lost Soldier from the platoon, It is up to the wiki to let me return as a (metaphorical) soldier and run the full length, It just depends whether the wiki would let me run that length or not.Explorer's ring 3.pngBtzkillerv has entered the building! Cape (blue).png 14:53, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Karlis (talk) (contribs) 15:11, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
Please provide links showing where I said you will not/have not changed or "turned over a new slate". --Degenret01 21:17, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I see what happened, you misread my above comments, so I will explain. When I say you don't start over with a clean slate, it means your past record will not be wiped away. I did not mean I don't think you haven't changed. Gotta watch the metaphors and read the whole thing. I will not comment on whether or not you should be allowed back here.--Degenret01 22:01, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Very Strong Oppose - Reading Btzkillerv's attacks towards Christine and other users, have disgusted me to the fullest degree, I cannot support the return of such a prolific, trolling vandal who refuses to learn. Ruud (talk)(Suggest me naems) 15:56, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Comment from Btzkillerv - To Ruudvan - I know that I conducted those actions and I have no intrest in denying them, however, the usage of terms by you describing me as disgusting you "to the fullest degree" and being a "prolific, trolling vandal who refuses to learn" is in no way language which anyone would expect from an admin, I do no know you, and thus the usage of language by you is not what I call civil in any way. I have no more to say. Explorer's ring 3.pngBtzkillerv has entered the building! Cape (blue).png 18:54, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Karlis (talk) (contribs) 19:36, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I've been watching Btz in the clan chat for the past week, and no problems/concerns/trouble came from them during this time period. Maybe a week was too short, who knows, but until trouble is caused again, I'd like to see if Btz has actually grown by unbanning them. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 20:47, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I have no doubt that he's changed for the better. I remember him saying that he's on the younger end of users here--people can be total assholes when they're preteens and completely turn themselves around in a few years. I mean, look at me...anybody remember how insane I was in 2007 when I was 11? Slayer helmet.png

Elijah talk

01:59, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I've had my problems with Btz in the past, but I think we need to be forgiving and give him another shot on our wiki. Although some of his past actions are regrettable, hopefully now he will show that he has changed his ways and matured enough to rejoin our community. --Aburnett(Talk) 19:26, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - Btzkillerv will be unblocked. C.ChiamTalk 02:48, March 27, 2010 (UTC)