Forum:Request to Lower a Rank

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This thread was archived on 22 August 2009 by Azaz129.

I am formally requesting to lower Vimescarrot ranking in our Clan Chat Channel. Repeatedly he has removed users in our channel without warning, violating our Clan Chat Rules, performs inappropriate kicks and often discusses things which are above what should be discussed in a Clan Channel of our nature. He is the sole reason I no longer am as active as I once was in the channel for I feel uncomfortable speaking as it might violate his sole interpretation of the rules, and being a 'Crat, he does have a higher kicking ability. There have been situations where he has been called out before for unjust kicks, and I myself have witnessed them many times. Today, there was a discussion about a man remembering Pi to the 100,000 decimal and he stated it's because he's an autistic savant and he has nothing better to do. That is both discriminatory and hurtful to myself and others. And among other things I feel the rank he has has given him to much control over the channel.

It is with this I request his rank be reduced to Lieutenant (Forum Admin Ranking) on the Clan Channel. He will still be able to issue kicks to unruly users and other trusted users however in the event he himself issues un-abiding kicks or begins disruptive conversation he can me moderated by the sysops present in the channel.

If users wish to not agree, than agree to issue a formal warning that future behavior violating the rules of the channel and ethics of content will not be tolerated any further.

I am not one to usually call users out for things. I'm a very patient user and I'm very, very tolerable, but this has been happening too long. In addition, it was Vimes sole presence in the channel that I agreed to move the last fest channel to the other due to my fear of him kicking unjustly or unfairly and myself not being able to do anything for our users with regards to that.

Bonziiznob Talk

20:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Support Rank Reduction - As per above.

Bonziiznob Talk

20:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Support- I witnessed the conversation you're talking about, and i have seen him kick before without warning before...Karimabuseer

Comment - I don't understand why some users feel that they deserve a warning before every kick. It is my opinion that there are some instances where you are aware of what you are doing and you don't need a warning - that a warning would only prolong the behaviour. Some additional comments: Bonzi, I know that you claim not to go in the CC because of Vimes, but frankly, I have you added and you are hardly ever on at the same time as Vimes because of timezones and what I assume to be your work schedule. Please do not blame your absence on Vimes. Finally, I was one of the wikifest attendees and was in the normal CC temporarily before it began, and think that Vimes had a valid point. It was also pretty nice of him to request you move the cc to prevent kicking spamming users (and they DID spam in the other CC, so Vimes was right to request the move) rather than just kicking without warning as you have accused him of doing "repeatedly." 155.33.223.155 20:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC) was me at work, couldn't log in Christine 02:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I like to warn users before kicking; the same way a warning is used as opposed to a block on the wiki itself. Some users come on to do nothing but disrupt - e.g. the few that come in and say Phrase 1 or whatever, they come in solely to attempt to annoy us. If a warning prolongs the situation, well then you could kick.
I was also in the regular CC prior to the wikifest. I was many a time directed to a discussion that hadn't really happened (an alternate CC was suggested but immediately dismissed and not talked of again). It was far too short notice but whatever, this bit should be on wikifest thread.
I have seen a few kicks without warning, where it would've been better to warn, from him. I'm afraid to say I have to support the rank reduction. (Also, could you log in? Thanks.) Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 21:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Support Rank Reduction- You would just need to read my Yew Grove Post. Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 20:36, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Is it this? Dragon claw.png Zezzima Talk Edit # SkillsFile:Turmoil.gif|Yay turmoil! 20:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - The reason I don't even go in the clan chat anymore is because he was ruthlessly bullying me and calling me stupid and vain and immoral. He is not mature enough to have the rank that can kick everyone. I had to be as blunt as I could be when saying this.

InstantWinstonDragon 2h sword old.pngold edits | new edits

20:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - deranking someone because they don't agree with you on when someone should be kicked? Some users who act immaturely every time they come into the Clan Chat do not deserve a warning. As for inapprporiate conversations - [[1]]. The warning system is in place so users don't get kicked due to ignorance of the rules, as a way to prevent people new to the Clan Chat from being kicked due to their ignorance of the said rules. People who break the rules continuously don't deserve such a treatment. Your dislike of a user does not constitute a deranking. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 21:06, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't like how he treats users. This is not about me, it's about him. I clearly stated why I don't choose to enter as often as a side effect of his presence, but that's the sole reason this topic is up. He treats users like they are his lower which is totally not right. Users who act immaturely deserve to get a warning every time they enter imo. If it becomes an issue where they are a trouble every time they log onto the channel, bring this to C Teng so he can ignore them. I am not requesting the deranking because of a disagreement I have with him. It's solely because of the way he treats users, how he speaks when in the channel and the topics he chooses to speak about. 21:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh and the Clan Chat switching was Your idea. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 21:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
No, it wasn't my idea. I hated the idea all the way. It was Vimes and another user that proposed the switch during the fest. 21:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

"There is an account I have made, called R S Wikifest, which can be used solely by moderators, sysops, etc, that are involved in planning the Fest. This can be used to discuss the events and progress of the fest while it is going on, or to plan in game on a private chat. Let me know if you wish to use this, and I can rank accordingly to those running the events."

Your idea. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 21:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea you were talking about that. The actual channel itself is fine, D4K, it's changing it at the last possible moment that was what I hated. We had announced a week before the channel used would be R S Wikia and when users started arriving that's when the trouble started. I don't care if we use your channel in the future, it was the change or we'll probably kick your event goers I didn't like. 22:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Bonzi, i've seen him threaten to kick people for singing and rp'ing.

Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 21:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - His baviour is way out of hand. Just a side note, but about a few weeks ago he threatened to go into the R S Wikia chat and tell everyone (I think this was along with Karilz and Christine) to "All join Vimescarrot for new R S Wikia CC" just because he was mad at C Teng. — Enigma 21:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per Bonzii. Vimes thinks he can make the rules in the CC like it is his own. He treats people in the CC like they're trash and mentally ill. It's not necessary. Just because you get annoyed over little statements like "I know the 100,000 decimal in Pi." and MJ jokes doesn't mean he can start insulting them in such a way that they'll think of themselves as shit and think he's a power-abusing asshole. You may not give a crap about this Vimes but if you miss the "Good Old Days" in the CC so much why don't you just start your own so you can make your own rules? I don't care whether he gets demoted or not but he shouldn't kick people without warning. Skull.pngDiaruga001Ancient talisman.png 21:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per Dia. Bonzi,I know you're not one to do this often,but this is getting out of hand. Vimes is acting as if he owns the CC,and it's like we can't even have free speech anymore.(Free Speech to the extent where it's within the rules) Other users don't enter the CC anymore because of Vimes. It's gone far enough. --

Water Wave icon.png
Captain Sciz
TalkEditsHiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

21:41, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Not yet In my opinion, Vimes has kicked unjustly (with today being a good example), but demoting is a big step. People do make mistakes, and Vimes is only human. After all, a big part of having kicking rights in the cc is exercising good judgement, and anyone can have an off day. If he agrees that kicking without warning was unjustified then I think we should take that as a step in the right direction, and work with him in trying to make the cc a little more tolerant place. I do not want this to be taken to be an ultimatum to Vimes (i.e. admit you were wrong or we demote you). If Vimes maintains that he was right to kick in that instance then we may need further discussion on that. Nobody can be above scrutiny here. It may be that Vimes will voluntarily request to have his cc rank reduced to lieutenant - as Bonzi pointed out, he will still be able to kick people, but will be kickable himself. Maybe a trial period as lieutenant would be helpful. I think we need to remember that Vimes is not the enemy - we know that his goals are the same as ours - he wants the wiki and the cc to be as good as they can be, and we need to work with him in achieving that. Demoting is kind of doing it by force, and it should be a last resort. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 21:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I have spoken to Vimes privately and he has agreed to settle down a bit. 21:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Neutral - Although I don't always agree with Vimes or they way he has treated certain people in the past, I respect him because he knows what he's doing and he wants what's best for the wiki and the clan chat just like everyone else. I realize that you were really upset earlier, Kris, but I can't help but wonder if this would do more harm than good. Andrew talk 22:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Regardless whether he wants whats best or total abolishment, there's nothing he wouldn't be able to do except kick admins. This deranking is just so that he can be more managable instead of being the all-powerful-big-one-that-you-can't-do-anything-about. — Enigma 23:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Stop lying. He does not behave like he's better then anyone since he, unlike you, is fully aware of RS:AEAE. Now, he may be more willing to argue about something then others, but that is no reason to derank him. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 23:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Chill out. And how is anything I just say a lie? I'm sorry, your comment didn't make any sense as it wasn't relevant to what I said at all. — Enigma 07:40, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Support When advised that he was violating the UTP by insulting me in the CC his response was "that's nice". He is an abuser of powers and believes he does not have to conform to the standards of the rest of us. And yes I am talking about an even in the CC, not the one on my talk page. He sets a very bad example for newer and younger users. He kicks too casually.--Degenret01 02:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - How would deranking him down to a bronze star even affect anything? I've rarely, if ever, seen him kick an admin. Christine 02:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I am hopeful he would take it as a warning to stop abusing the system. I don't expect it to work, but it might.--Degenret01 05:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I think that if Vimes was deranked, admins/'crats have a chance to kick him for abusing his powers. Since he has a golden star, only the owner can kick him. Santa hat.png Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 05:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't really think he's ever done anything deserving of a kick (from what I have seen), except some unjust kicks... So I still don't see the point in admins being able to kick him. With a bronze star he is still able to kick the same people he usually did. Christine 03:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Nevermind, I can't figure out how to say this the way I want. Christine 03:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per Bonzi. I have seen too many threads regarding Vimes' actions in the CC. Although I personally have never had an issue with him (probably because we're in different time zones), I've viewed numerous complaints about his behaviour and attitude. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  07:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - First of all DK4 is right, why lower rank someone for something small (I've seen more but dont be joking), they can improve. That's the problem with some of the wiki, your just too harsh. If someone just kicks someone for no reason that's a mistake but no need to lower rank. Most of you worth are supporting are really going to ruin the wiki community. Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 08:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

To kick with no solid reason is NOT "small". What if I kicked you because I didn't like what you say, even though you didn't break a rule? Would that be ok then?--Degenret01 09:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Stuff like that can easily be improved but no need to derank. Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 09:21, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Where is the motivation to improve if we do not punish transgressions? No where. This is not a single isolated incident. And if you think about it, by today's standards Vimes would never be a bcrat. He is grandfathered in.--Degenret01 09:44, 12 August 2009 (UTC).
Some people in this wiki need to learn and by that I know who I'm pointing to. Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 09:53, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Your hidden talk isn't helping this discussion in the slightest. C.ChiamTalk 09:57, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Kalindrum, don't throw out random indirect insults or point fingers. It doesn't help at all. If anyone needs to learn it's you. Contribute maturely or don't contribute at all mmk? Andrew talk 18:16, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I want to keep my conflict records clean so I am not going to argue but really, read my sentence over again and you'll understand to not judge a book by its cover. Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 18:41, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I've read them all multiple times and you are saying that most people that support this proposal are going to ruin the wiki community just by demoting Vimes to a bronze star. Interesting. Now drop it. Andrew talk 18:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Wow...*claps for andrew* Well done...Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 18:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you baiting me? Andrew talk 18:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Mo, please; say what you're hinting at or don't say anything at all. Its not helping the discussion and and may escalate (not that I'd expect it to). Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 19:16, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Sure thing Gaz, thats my say done. (atleast gaz knows how to talk kindly) Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 19:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Don't expect cheerful responses when you are hinting at something so negatively. I won't discuss this any further either. Andrew talk 19:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - So I'm not the only one who thought this. Miasmic Blitz icon.png Hapi007 Talk! Sign! . 11:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - This is not the first time that vimes has offended, he will kick someone for almost nothing and has done repeatedly while i have been in the clan chat. Even if he is having a bad day we do not need admins taking their feeling out on other in the clan chat(or else i have no good explanation as to why he does this), this should have been done well before now in my book Slayer Timwac talk Fire cape.png 19:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Commment - Everyone remember to remain civil.--

Helm of neitiznot (charged).png Azaz129 Crystal shield.png Talk Edits Contribs

19:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - I stopped coming in the cc a while ago because of him--Quest point hood.png Bigm2793Talk Quest point cape.png 19:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - I have seen enough discussions about his unfair kicks to see that he diserves regulation. He should still be able to kick and do everything he could do before, just not be Judge, Jury and Executioner without concequences. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 06:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Vimescarrot is taking the enjoyment out of the clan chat, I think that a demotion should bring him back to earth and make him realize that, after all, he is the same as us and doesn't have the right to constantly believe he is superior. Ruud (talk)(Suggest me naems) 13:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - He isn't very nice to me. That's why I have him on my ignore list. ShinyUnown T | C | E 14:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Neutral Vimes may have gone to far but as per lee and andrew we all make mistakes I bet some of ranked ppl wrongly kicked trying to add people to their respective friend list.

Defence Waterkunai1 Talk # fluffy bunniesArmadyl symbol.png 15:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per Above ço¬Ø

Neutral - Haven't seen vimescarrot in the cc since like maybe 2 months ago so idk what's been going on. What time zone are you guys in? Dragon claw.png Zezzima Talk Edit # SkillsFile:Turmoil.gif|Yay turmoil! 20:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - And Bonzi, can you correct your original thread starter by adding that Lieutenant is a brown star and is the rank that forum admins receive? At first I thought it was silver star and the rest of your paragraph confused me. Dragon claw.png Zezzima Talk Edit # SkillsFile:Turmoil.gif|Yay turmoil! 20:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Neutral - Lowering Vime's rank to lieutenant isn't too drastic. He'll still be able to kick, but admins (who are commonly in the chat) and 'crats will have some control over him. While I do believe that Vimes kicks often without warnings, he is still a trusted member of the community, so I think we have his word that he will "settle down a bit" (though I don't know how much "a bit" is).  Tien  01:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per supports above. I also feel that some other highly ranked users should know that they have to follow the same exact rules as others. Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 08:03, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Vimes seems to act like he's ALWAYS above the CC rules; that, and he mocks ME for using periods to capitalize words. I don't enjoy his prescense to say the LEAST. 7kyt1iT.gif --WINE OF GOOD HEALTH (Actually Stinko) 01:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Support - Vimes always acts like he's above the rules of the clanchat and keeps arguing with people, for example, if they(me in example) use spaces or periods to capitalize words(in my case "C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S!"). user:Bruxacosmica 20:38, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I don't wish to give any opinion yet until I've heard both sides of the story. However, Vimes himself hasn't said anything here yet (or maybe I'm just not seeing it - I'm tired :P). Butterman62 (talk) 05:55, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

He hasn't commented yet. Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 09:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
As far as I'm aware, Vimes doesn't even know this topic is taking place. I'll notify him. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  06:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I tried notifying him ingame, but I didn't get any response. Butterman62 (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Rest assured, he is fully aware of this.--Degenret01 06:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Comment - It is interesting this is still being discussed. So I thought I would throw my 2 cents in. The CC rules would suggest a warning should be issued first instead of an immediate kick? If so, should a warning not be given to Vimes from another Crat? This is the general policy for most businesses is to issue a formal warning first for minor issues. Has Vimes been warned formally? I am completely unbiased in this situation as I am generally not on the CC on a regular bases and have not been witness to any issues. Step back and try to think logical and professional not out of emotion. That is how business is run. The CC may not be a business but the issue being discussed is more relative to making that comparison. Strength-icon.png Hammer2092 Time |KOTA Bandos godsword.png 18:02, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Vimes is a 'crat himself, so no one can actually kick him unless R s wikia logs on and kicks vimes himself. Santa hat.png Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 02:02, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Closing - Seeing as the discussion has slowed in recent days, I am going to start closing this topic. The consensus appears to be that Vimescarrot's clan chat rank should be reduced to Lieutenant due to behavior in the channel. Since Vimescarrot is a trusted member of our community and, as other have pointed out, behavior can change, I suggest that Vimes have the opportunity to earn back the rank overtime as the community sees fit. Please note that this discussion has not been fully closed yet. Quest map icon.png Laser Dragon Task map icon.png 23:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Disagree - I don't want to weigh in on this discussion, but 4+ active opposers and a number of neutrals don't equal consensus. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 02:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Closed - Even counting all the stated neutrals and opposes as one, this discussion still would qualify as a rough consensus, however, having given Vimes ample time to respond I feel it fair to close this as he will not be commenting. Vimes may open another Yew Grove discussion in a few months time should the community see fit to restore his rank. C Teng will now be notified to lower Vimes' rank to Lieutenant.--

Helm of neitiznot (charged).png Azaz129 Crystal shield.png Talk Edits Contribs

05:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)