Forum:Reopen Requests for Ranks

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This thread was archived on 25 October 2010 by Calebchiam.

I believe we should reopen the clan chat requests for the sergeant rank. We currently have only 60 ranked players, And many agree that new players should be given the chance to show their worth as a rank. We have 140 spaces that we can put ranked players on. Should we let them gather dust until 140 new administrators are made, or should we give them to players who can use them now? Please Discuss.


Discussion

Support - As nom--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 01:39, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Sarcastic support - The last time I was in the CC, there were only 6 out of 25 people ranked!!! That is terrible!!! I mean, seriously, what if a troll came in an all 6 were in the washroom? We definitely need way more ranks. ajr 01:42, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose - We have more than enough ranks right now. We need ranks in the Aussie time zones to cover the times that the Western ranks can't cover. I don't remember anyone in there in that time range that I really trust with a rank, so opening this now is really just loading more and more ranks into our already covered hours. That's not what we need. --LiquidTalk 01:42, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

There are a couple of Aussies I know that are trustworthy. I'm not giving out names though. 222 talk 06:15, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
Yourself, I bet.   Swizz Talk   Events!   17:11, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
And for what reasons would you think that? Because I find that pretty offensive if you're implying what I think you might be. 222 talk 08:59, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
You seem to try be the "voice" of every discussion, and in most cases you just mess things up, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks this.. I'm not trying to troll you, that's why I've been putting this comment off, but I've just had enough of you.   Swizz Talk   Events!   10:45, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - You've gotta be kidding me..this again? You don't even have a legitimate reason this time besides wanting ranks for the sake of having them! What a waste of time... Andrew talk 02:04, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I'll just say that I don't see why NOT to have them open...7kyt1iT.gif --WINE OF GOOD HEALTH (Actually Stinko) 02:08, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

... Because a rank should not be a trophy. As Liquid pointed out, there is only a need for ranks in the Australian time zones; there's no reason TO have them open, and, since the proposal is to open the ranks, the burden of proof is on those who want to change the status quo. Leftiness 03:56, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per all, but we should open a few ranks up for Australian/East Asian users. I'm not trying to be biased against Americans and Europeans, but you have plenty of ranks whereas, we only have Degen (and Chicken, if they haven't suddenly disappeared) there but the other time I was on, no ranks. 222 talk 06:12, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - For the Australian time, then maybe, yes. But none for the other time zones, there have been times where there are twice as many ranked users in the Clan Chat then non-ranked users. While I have no problems with this, after all, we all have a right to be in the clan chat, rank or not, some other users openly protest about it. Just to save the earache, we shouldn't open RFRs until we really need to. Ruud (talk)(Suggest me naems) 10:15, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Not allowing people getting nominated for them is like not allowing people to have RfB's. Do we need more 'crats? No, but one may still apply to be one, and he won't get 'crat rights. Why don't we just do the same here? If the community really thinks that there's no need for more ranks, just oppose all the nominations because of reason on there, don't do it here. bad_fetustalk 13:19, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per most ppl. However, as stated, we could do with maybe one or two Aussie/East Asia. Im on during the normal eastern hours and im thinking User:sentra246 definitely, he was even on the request for rank signup sheet right before it closed. - [Pharos] 13:26, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Even though I only enter the clan chat for short spurts of time, as Chess said, we allow people to request Adminship and B'cratship, even if we don't have a need for them. Should we close the Rfa's and Rfb's just because we have a large number? svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 13:41, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

That's completely unrelated, the wiki may need admins and crats to further itself, and to help with vandals which still happens quite alot, the cc gets 2-3 trolls or spammers a month, meaning the need for a rank is minimal.   Swizz Talk   Events!   19:09, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
While I agree that admins are unrelated, with 'crats, you have no idea what you are talking about. We most certainly do not need any more 'crats right now. What's the difference between it and ranks? If we don't need more ranks, which I also believe we don't, just go oppose them on requests for rank page, not here. bad_fetustalk 07:03, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - There is absolutely no point, we almost always have a rank online, and even when we don't there are very few spammers/trolls or players in, so the use of the ignore list is possible.   Swizz Talk   Events!   17:10, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'd support 1 active user, preferably in the Aussie timezone, but can be in any as long as he's on at the aussie peak times. I can only think of one person who would use the rank well   Swizz Talk   Events!   19:09, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per others, the problem with this is most of the people requesting won't be in the time zones needed and just be using up the rank space. Take a look at the last time it was opened, aside fr:Nom the mad one and I most of the people requesting ranks weren't in the time zones needed. Korasi's sword.png Archmage Elune  TalkHS Void knight deflector.png fetus is my son and I love him. 19:23, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

What? I completely disagree with you. The only unneeded rank added there was Strato, and that's because he went inactive soon after his rank request passed. bad_fetustalk 07:03, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - We have plenty of ranks. HaloTalk 20:42, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Slight oppose - While there may be a couple of instances where there aren't any ranks in the CC, there are usually more than 3 all other times. Suppa chuppa Talk 20:44, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Conditional support - People have brought up the fact that we do lack ranks during some time periods. I support giving people active during those times a shot at getting ranked, but otherwise it's unnecessary. --Aburnett(Talk) 20:51, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - This comes up every couple of months, so I'll just reiterate points I make often. Although I have not been active in chat recently due to other predicaments, my view stays the same. I'm sure that many ranks are on at our busiest hours, and all we need is 1 rank on at any moment. As said above, 6/25 at a given time were ranks, which is 24%. As for certain time zones, due to this policy, we can't exactly restrict applications to certain timezones, regardless of the universal trust card. There's almost always a rank on as usual I'm sure, and all it takes is one. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 00:59, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Now, I oppose adding new ranks, but the rationale presented here is faulty. AEAE does NOT grant any universal "all users are equal to each other in absolutely every single way" pass; rather, its scope is limited to the fact that usergroups do not automatically elevate one editor's opinion over another editor's opinion. That's all it says. Nothing else. Period. --LiquidTalk 01:12, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
It was rationale used in past discussions on this topic. Opening it to just a select time group irks me as not being entirely fair, but at the same time it could be nessacery should there be no Austrailian timezone ranks at some time (I only say this since the almighty chicken has decided to leave us for awhile. Regardless, it's just what I've seen in the past few, and maybe the point became moot by some counter rationale. Regardless, I still dislike this idea because all it takes is one rank, and out of 60, 1 is usually on at any given time or can be called upon using this site. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 04:01, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Support - It's a very hard choice to make. The down side will be too many ranks in a lobby and it would simply make others feel underrated however in my 1 year of service on this website/clan chat, there have been so many times where I have seen a troll come along at 3 in the morning (don't ask) and simply annoy the rest of the users. Why not do like 3-8 people in one time zone etc. It wouldn't be overused though as we have alot of people with powers of kicking in EST and GMT, we need other places etc I support. Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 09:28, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Liquidhelm, only in aussie/kiwi times for a short time. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:39, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Sentra, do you play RS most days? 222 talk 07:44, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
Play most days, go in lobby for a while if i don't, why? Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 08:08, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
Would be useful to know, as some users see you as a good option for an Australian rank. 222 talk 08:09, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Based soley on world population (real and in-game); time-zones requiring ranks range from UTC 6-12+. Just an approximate estimate. 222 talk 07:42, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Liquidhelm. BUKKITZ WEEL SMITE YOU!!!Murd3rlogistTalk Contribs Sign here 13:49, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Helm opposed >_> bad_fetustalk 13:58, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
I think he means it will only be opened for aussie times. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 14:04, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
Yep BUKKITZ WEEL SMITE YOU!!!Murd3rlogistTalk Contribs Sign here 14:28, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - There's almost always a ranked person in the CC, and regardless of whether reopening them for certain time-zone people violates AEAE or not, there will still be people who believe this to be biased and unfair. The sliver of an argument that the possibility of someone coming on during a not-very-active time and trolling everyone can be fixed by simply turning off clan chat, as there is not many people on and the troll would soon give up. I don't see it as much as a problem. To avoid unnecessary disputes over this, we'd have to reopen the RfRs for everyone. Just too much trouble for a little thing. — Enigma 16:14, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Request for closure - It has been a while, and there is clear consensus to leave them closed. HaloTalk 17:19, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

We are still discussing whether to open the ranks for a specific range of time-zones. 222 talk 00:01, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Chess. Also, why are you guys supporting per Liquidhelium? He Strong opposed. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 03:57, October 4, 2010 (UTC) 

Where supporting the idea for it opened for "aussie timezones" only. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 05:03, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
There are more opposed than supports, does that not mean this proposal has failed?   Swizz Talk   Events!   06:57, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
Many of the opposed included a support for opening ranks for specific time-zones, including mine. We can still debate that proposal. 222 talk 07:01, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
Unless those people change their votes to supports this is a failed proposal, I think.   Swizz Talk   Events!   15:39, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
It definitely should not matter whether it says support or oppose. We are not a democracy, and many of those who happen to consider their opinion to be more of an oppose than a support still agreed that opening a rank for someone in an Australian timezone is a good idea. It isn't even a debate, in my opinion; it seems obvious that the community agrees that a player in the Australian timezone should be ranked, though of course I'm not qualified to make that kind of decision. Leftiness 17:45, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
^Exactly, you might want to read of RS:CONSENSUS again. 222 talk 22:42, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose just opening for people in Australian time zone - Why? Because there are people more deserving of rank in other time zones. Selecting someone just because they are in a certain time zone is completely unfair in my opinion. If we need more, it should be opened for everyone, but I oppose that as well. HaloTalk 05:22, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

There may be people more deserving in other time zones, but we kinda need more ranks in that time zone, isn't it unfair that we sometimes have spammers come in and nobody can kick them? Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:00, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Just FYI Sentra has a page of times where there havent been ranks. Itd be appreciated if you guys could add to it. User:Sentra246/Rankless - [Pharos] 07:14, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Question - If you do open it just for Aussies, how do you intend to prove that any particular candidate actually lives in the timezone specified? Submit our passports to Caleb? (wszx) 21:29, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

CheckUser will know the IP address. IP addresses are region-specific. --Saftzie (talk) 21:37, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
That would be an abuse of CheckUser. HaloTalk 21:51, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
How do you get CheckUser for GeoIP is abuse? --Saftzie (talk) 22:13, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
CheckUser is only supposed to be for checking for sockpuppets, and for preventing vandalism. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 22:18, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
It's an abuse of CU, plus IP addressed can be manipulated. (wszx) 22:35, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
Is my obvious support of the Australian cricket team and Sentra's viewing of AFL (Australian Football League, not that American stuff...) enough? Smile 222 talk 22:23, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
People on in the time know who's on during that time. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 05:11, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I don't see why more ranks can hurt, as they can always be de-ranked if they have any problems. On the other hand, if we did have more ranks, there would be more people able to kick spammers, trolls, etc. Wicid13 22:16, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Stop saying Aussies This drives me nuts to be honest. Screw where the **** someone lives, instead ask "WHAT TIME ARE THEY IN THE CC?" THAT IS WHAT MATTERS. Last time I checked (checks again), EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD EXISTS FOR EVERY SINGLE HOUR, ALL 24 HOURS OF A DAY!! EVERY ONE!!! -- Degen says Unban TLUL  22:18, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'm gonna use caps-lock too: STOP TAKING IT LITERALLY, IT IS EASIER TO SAY THAT "TIME ZONES SO AND SO"! IF SOMEONE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IT, WE'LL EXPLAIN IT TO THEM, WE DON'T NEED TO DO A WIKIA AND BE TOTALLY IDIOTPROOF. 222 talk 22:23, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
I hate a lot of caps used in rapid succession as if it's all being used in 1 word, but seriously... we should just look at the time they are on. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 22:25, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, but I had to match Degen. 222 talk 22:28, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
I'm usually on during the "aussie" time. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 22:30, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHAT THE EXACT HOURS ARE FOR WHEN WE NEED RANKS? HOW DO WE DECIDE IF SOMEONE IS ON ENOUGH TO WARRANT BEING A SPECIAL "AUSTRALIA-ONLY" RANK SPOT? WHAT HAPPENS IF WE PROMOTE THEM BUT THEN THEY'RE NOT ON OFTEN ENOUGH? WHAT IF WE STILL HAVE TIMES WHEN THERE'S NO RANKS?? (wszx) 22:38, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, long caps-lock questions need a long caps=locked answer: Well, my approximation is about UTC 5-12+ as areas where we could do with some more ranks. Someone well suited to this time-region would obviously be people who play RuneScape during these times, a prominent example being users from Oceania. If we end up with not enough ranks again, we can start another one of these discussions. 222 talk 22:49, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment/Slight support - I think using the ignore list is more effective than kicking the culprits. People troll and spam for attention, and being kicked sends that desired message to them, prompting them to come back and perhaps start the so-called "hit and run" technique for even more attention. If everyone simply pretended that they didn't exist, they'd get bored and go somewhere else. Plus, there'd be fewer incidents of accidental kicks if we ignored them.

Anyway, despite all that, I wouldn't care if some rank requests were opened for the "Aussie" time zone. AEAE really doesn't apply here. We aren't re-opening them to give users an "advantage" over others; we're doing this for a cause.  Tien  00:22, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Support "Aussie"/Asian/Kiwi ranking opening Some of the time I am on there are no rank's in there meaning there is a "slight" fire up just a joke on though but there are some spammers that come into it when no ranks are on. Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 03:58, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

No need for any new ranks I am often active at these times and I never see a need for a rank since a certain troll got booted. When his time expires, let us see who is active at that time we may wish to rank. Until then, it is needless.-- Degen says Unban TLUL  05:59, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Change to oppose - I really dont care anymore, i thought itd be fine if one or two users from Asia/Australia were ranked. But if everyone really thinks that its completely unfair to other timezones then whatever... - [Pharos] Dosent give a poo07:34, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Why oppose, when you don't care. 222 talk 08:59, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
Better put, Oppose Re-opening CC ranks, like before, but now Neutral on Opening ranks for a certain timezone only. - [Pharos] Still thinks Sentra would be good...09:04, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Would we be able to ask the people who put themselves up/got nom'd to put their regular play time in UTC?   Swizz Talk   Events!   15:24, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt people would mind. And there's a comment for you to reply near the top of the page. 222 talk 22:48, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I wish EVERYONE who is opposing just because opening for the middle east and Oceania only feels discriminative would just use their common sense... We NEED more ranks for the daytime hours of these locations, otherwise, the clan chat WILL be overrun by trolls and WILL turn into an area people will attempt to avoid in the future as a result of this. RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 18:22, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

That's a bit alarmist, I think. It's not like rankless-ccs are a new thing, and the cc has yet to become "overrun with trolls" and a place people avoid. It's rare to have a rankless cc for any length of time, the above assertions notwithstanding. If things really do get bad then we can address the situation then. But for right now, opening these special Aussie-time rank spots seems to be a solution looking for a problem. (wszx) 04:02, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
The situation is not that horrible. There are 10-30 minute gaps between ranks with the odd multiple hour long rankless time. I still believe that a rank in time-zones UTC +5-12 should plug most of these gaps. 222 talk 04:08, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
Or 4hours sometimes. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 04:10, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per my above comment RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 18:23, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I know I already opposed, and still do, and would like to add that IP addresses can be manipulated by proxys (inb4 Good luck I'm behind x proxys!). There is really no true way to prove someone is in that timezone. Also, since there's so few people in the cc at the times discussed (per the picture up there) an ignore could easily suffice and take roughly 7 seconds if everyone does it for hours of fun chat. tl;dr We can't prove where anyone lives and the Ignore feature exists. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 19:00, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter where they live, it's just when there in the cc and people on during those times know if they are on or not during the "aussie peak times". Plus using your thing about the ignore feature, why do we have ranks? can't everyone ignore all the trolls? Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 23:59, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
Not when we're at our peak with 50-70 people in the cc. You can't possible ask 70 people to add someone to their ignore because no rank is on. But in the austalian times, you'll be lucky to get 10 people on which means telling people to add the troll/spammer to their cc isn't too much to ask.   Swizz Talk   Events!   07:30, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
You can't ask 70 people to add people to there ignore list why? Every person, no matter what time can add people to there ignore list, everyone has one, it's not like 1 person has to do it 70 times during peak times. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 11:35, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
It's easier to communicate with 10 people than it is to with 70.   Swizz Talk   Events!   13:19, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
If someone tells people to ignore the spammer, thats giving a reaction which isn't what we want to do. A lot of peoples ignore list(like mine) are full from some spammers and the message bots. And respond to 222 near the top of the thread. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 02:06, October 10, 2010 (UTC)


This request for closure is complete A user has requested closure for Reopen Requests for Ranks. Request complete. The reason given was: complete

svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 14:13, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - Requests for ranks will not be opened at this time. C.ChiamTalk 12:53, October 25, 2010 (UTC)