Forum:Reopen CC rank requests

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This thread was archived on 22 June 2009 by Azliq7.

I think we have more than enough ranked users in America and areas in similar time zones. However, I live in Australia, and I find that often when I come home and play RS, there are not many ranked users in the CC, often none. This is because most of the people living in America are asleep (however, when I play in the mornings, the CC is often packed with 5+ ranked people). Thus I feel a need to focus on choosing people who live in Australia, Asia, New Zealand or somewhere with a similar time zone. I think we should reopen requests for CC ranks. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  08:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think timezones should really be a major factor in selecting ranked users. This seems very limiting, and the point of having a ranked user at all times is great, but if worse comes to worse, you can just hit "Ignore" and add said user to your list, blocking all of his text inputs. Just my two cents. --Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 23:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Timezones shouldn't determine whether a person gets a rank or not. Per Chaos Monk. Statistics.png Lvl 3 skils3 Choice! Talk~ Holiday Signup ~Hiscores 18:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:::1. Doesn't that bring up RS:AEAE? Only it's all editors are equal regardless of location?

2. People can lie about their time zone, and IP addresses don't always tell the truth. Butterman62 (talk) 23:10, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I meant to say shouldn't... STUPID TYPOS!!!!!!! Statistics.png Lvl 3 skils3 Choice! Talk~ Holiday Signup ~Hiscores 03:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh, okay. Nevermind then. :) Butterman62 (talk) 03:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying that. I'm saying we should try to get more people in this particular time zone. Currently, requests have been closed as there are 'more than enough ranked users' but I find in my time zone there are often no ranked users. If anything, it's the closing of this that is against AEAE. What's with that? ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  03:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6375/ccnoadmins.gif

Here is a screenshot of the clan chat taken at 5:12 pm East Australian time on Sunday, the 31st of May. As you can see, the chat has lots of people in it but no admins. It is usually like this, only less crowded. Occasionally Jediadam or Caleb are on, but this image still reinforces my point that we should unprotect this page. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  07:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Soldier came right after. FredeTalk 07:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Whatever, but the point still stands that there are often no ranked users with the clan chat in this time zone. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  17:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
During this period, exactly how many times was a kick needed? Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 20:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
None, but C00l Dud4 wanted to kick me for reasons I find really sad. "You're not a wikian so we can kick you". Pathetic. --Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 20:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Are you talking about when you spammed the chat yesterday with "@@@@@@@@" a dozen times pretending that you had just got a visage drop?? To me it would have been tempting to kick you if I had the powers. You totally disrupted the conversation because of the mass amount of @@@s and kept on spamming even when people asked you to stop. Plus you didn't actually get a visage drop and was spamming for the sake of it.
Also to what Gaz said, the point is not that nobody needed to be kicked, it is that someone had the potential to kick if it was necessary. It is like a safety precaution, with it being better to have one just encase and not use it rather then not having one and needing it. I didn't mean allude it to condoms, it just seemed the best way to explain it. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk
Everybody gets excited when they get a Visage drop, and nobody told him to stop...
visage.png FredeTalk 10:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
<edit conflict> If that was the case Supirion, I would've warned you, and since you carried on when others asked you to stop, I assume you would continue and I would've kicked you. But whatever, its past.
Yeah, I see your point, it does help; at times (mainly from about now to 2-3h hours time) I'm the only rank online (sometimes Caleb is on, other times some sergeants are on), however the CC has hardly anyone in it (often ≤5, but me being alone is not uncommon). However I never see any trouble. We may need some ranks in time zone shown above, but we can't reopen RfRs for just one rank, from a certain time zone. We don't know if they're telling the truth about their time zone, or if they will be on when they're needed. Also, there would be outrage from the other users nominated for an RfR - we rank someone when their RfR is on hold, simply because of their time zone? Hardly equality between editors. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 10:29, 1 June 2009 (Uhttp://runescape.wikia.com/index.php?title=RuneScape_talk:Clan_Chat/Request_for_CC_Rank&action=editTC)
I'm not sure, but I think that other ranked users could be doing something and do not wished to be bothered. Sometimes, I am online and do not join the cc yet because I happened to be busy. If someone would pm me for help, I would rush right over and help. Santa hat.png Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 10:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
He didn't get a visage drop, he was just pretending he did. He wasn't actually typing that because he was excited, he was pretending to be excited and was spamming for the sake of it. Also, I remember me saying stop spamming to him. I assuming that the reason above that superion is talking about is the same incident. That is 2 people. I got to go but I will write more later. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk10:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
If someone was lying about their time zone, someone would quickly notice that they're never on in Australian/Asian time. Easy to fix. Also, I see trouble semi-regularly. See here [1], for example - and there were no kickers on at the time. Since then, the user in question hasn't caused any problems (as far as I'm aware) but there have been other incidents within the CC where a kicker has been needed. And, as Evil Yanks said earlier, it's good just to have a kicker in case one is needed. I see your point about it being against AEAE, but we need either:

1. More kickers in the Australian/Asian/New Zealand time zone OR

2. American or British users who are willing to stay up quite late or wake up very early to moderate the clan chat. An example of a user who does this is Jediadam.

~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  06:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

To Gaz: I agree with you that it would be unfair to say "Nobody can apply for a RFCC...except for you, you and you". I believe that it would cause more problems then it would solve. Though, AEAE should have nothing to do with it. You could claim that there is not AEAE right now because some candidates just as good or better then some of the old candidates wont get a rank for a while because they waited a day too late to put in the RFCC or because they went on holiday and came back to late. All editors can never be equal because of the context of the time. Sorry that this is not well written, mind wandering. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 07:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I think what Evil Yanks means that this is just as fair as if someone was unable to submit their RFR request before it closed. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  18:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Figured a simple way of putting it. While ranked people are needed in the Australasia timezone, trying to fix it would cause too many problems. That is why nothing should be done right now and just wait until RFRs open again.
In reflection, what I wrote yesterday did not (and still doesn't) make much sense. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk

I think that not enough users are ranked. Mostly in America. I live in America, and everytime I go on the R s Wikia CC, there is like no more than 2 ranked users. Remember the wikifests in the winter and Spring 2009? Wasn't there a Clan wars activity? Well, no one was able to challenge because They were not ranked. Maybe all users should be at least a private.

Youdead00

Impossible, its a free account, only 100 people may be ranked. We have way more than that that would like to be ranked. And 1 is enough to kick, why you think we need more than 2 at once is beyond me.--Degenret01 18:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

When are the requests going to be re-opened? ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  07:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

When its viewed that there aren't enough ranked members ? Karis Talk to me 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I completely forgot I posted here lol =S. Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 06:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
But there AREN'T enough ranked members, especially in my time zone. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  10:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Telos, I completely agree with you on this one. Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 08:05, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

So on average, how long do you see no ranked members in the CC? And how much trouble is there that calls for ranked members?--Degenret01 08:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, once, my friend and I were the only ones in the cc with this guy called Zaltais. He was spamming up the chat and attacking my friend and we could do nothing except add him to our ignore. Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 08:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
There should always be at least one ranked member in the chat to deal with problems should they arise. I don't understand why this has been closed because the Australasian time zone needs more ranked users. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  20:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that Telos is right we need more ranks during the later eastern Australian time zone there is alot of times when i log on and there isn't any for hours at a time we need more ranked users for this time Quest point cape.png Dryrth Talk Quest map icon.png 10:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Gotta agree with Dryth and telos, at my time the clan chat is a no-ranked user time. There needs to be more ranked users for the +5:00 to the +12:00 time Ruud (talk)(Suggest me naems) 10:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposal

I propose that we open up the rfr page for east australian users, (can't admins check where users are from? <(-...-)>)


Discussion

Support - As nominator. Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 10:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - As a person that believes there isn't enough ranked users for east Australian timezones Quest point cape.png Dryrth Talk Quest map icon.png 11:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - The big problem is that people will lie, and the tool you are talking about is called CheckUser. CheckUser is a tool designed to look at a user's IP and some other server log data about them. However, there are two problems. First, people can use an IP address that are very inaccurate in telling where they live; someone living in America could have an IP address indicating Brazil or something. Second, CheckUser is only supposed to be used in the most extreme cases; privacy is a serious issue and private details should not be unveiled at whim. For more information, you can read here. Butterman62 (talk) 14:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I should also clarify, admins cannot checkuser. Only people in the "Check users" group can do so. Butterman62 (talk) 14:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Butterman and my reasons above (basically not fair on others and against RS:AEAE). Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 18:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Butter and Gaz. That's utterly ridiculous. You can't say "you aren't allowed to request a rank because you aren't from Eastern Australia". It's all or none. Andrew talk 18:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I think we have plenty of ranked users already ‎Easter egg.pngAtlandy 18:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - If something comes up, then we'll see to it. But I haven't heard of any problems in the clan chat due to lack of ranked users, so it's fine. Also, as mentioned above, we can't just hand a rank to some user based on where he lives.  Tien  19:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Look, just close this. Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 20:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Why don't we simply unlock this? We need more ranked people from the Australasian timezone; that doesn't mean we should cut off the people from other continents too. Just reopen the requests. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  06:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and to Tienjt0 - There have been several occasions. Please see Supirion's and my comments above. Also, if you search the Yew Grove you can see I started a thread about banning someone from the CC, and the issue stemmed from lack of kickers to deal with the problem. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  06:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You mean banning legaking? I called calebchiam in, you could have told him everything. Santa hat.png Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 08:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Telos, are you talking about that incident where Supirion was spamming (as shown in the screenshot a section above)? If so, it's rather ironic that Supirion wants the requests to be reopened when he was the person causing the problem... also, I see no recent proposals in the Yew Grove about problems in the chat that arose from lack of ranked users.  Tien  12:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I am talking about the issue with Legaking. And Caleb didn't log on until AFTER it had settled down. I still have the screenshots. I can upload them if you want them. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  18:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Where did I mention Legaking? :/  Tien  21:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I also find it hard to notice that every one who opposed has a rank and does not live in Australasia. Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 07:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - There is simply no fair way to get more ranked. There is definitly a need for them though. Yesterday when I was on for about an hour, (from 7.30-8.30pm Eastern Aus) there were 6 people in the cc but no ranks. None of the ranks on my friends list were on either. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 11:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment In the instance above when there were 6 people in, but no ranked...did you need a ranked person? More often than not, a ranked person is not needed, and when one is needed, one can be called in. Ranked users do not have to be babysitters and supply constant vigilance over the cc ‎Easter egg.pngAtlandy 16:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I am presently uploading the images of the incident with Legaking. It shows that there were no people in the Clan Chat to deal with the problem when it was at hand. Shortly after Legaking calmed down, Caleb joined the chat to help mediate, but it was already over. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  19:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Look-nosysops.jpg

The images aren't in order, sorry. Start at the bottom-left corner and work your way up to the top. There is a line missing at the top, where (on one side) I say "Legaking, are you Trying to start a flame war?!" and on the other side I say "I'm trying to mediate." ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  19:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment Is this an isolated incident? I would think so. Kicking people on the cc is not a common occurance. One time (above) where a ranked user isn't on. ‎Easter egg.pngAtlandy 19:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - But there shouldn't be occasions when a rank is unavailable when needed, like shown here. If there are multiple times when a rank is needed but unavailable then there clearly AREN'T enough ranks. Also, why don't you want RfRs reopened? ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  20:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

...Telos, that happened two months ago. Have there been any incidents since then? Also, how can we guarantee that ranking a person in your time zone would solve any problems in the chat? Unless that particular person logs on for the exact same duration of time every day without fail, there will always be a time when no ranked users are on. Even in US time zones, where there are tons of people ranked, there are occasionally times when no ranks are in the chat. Would ranking even more people in US time zones solve the problem?

Oppose There is times when ranked users far outnumber non-ranked users and yes the chat does get very low sometimes but just screenshot the abuse and post it here but i must say i have rarely seen the chat without a rank in it, Telos I have been ranked and so has lvl 3 skilz since that incident along with many others, i dont think it should just be open to people from australia only as this is unfair to many other people who wish to become ranked.--Slayer Timwac talk Fire cape.png 19:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

In additon... I'm not trying to sound mean (and sorry if I do), but didn't you say that you deserved part of the blame in that incident? Hardcrewdy (or whatever) played most of the role in angering Legaking. That incident was really not Legaking's fault, although he shouldn't have started flaming. But Hardcrewdy shouldn't have said what he said to start Legaking's flaming in the first place.  Tien  21:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  • First, I'm moving this to the Yew Grove. Secondly, this issue isn't about Legaking, and I admit I do deserve some blame. Maybe I deserved a kick; I don't know. I was just using that incident as an example of when a rank was needed. Yes, there are occasionally times in America where the CC has no ranks. But that is fairly rare. In Australiasian time, it is rather common. We can't guarantee ranking an Australiasian person would solve all problems, but it would help (and closing off ranks certainly will do nothing). This is just like the "too many admins" issue, only we have a limit. Supirion brings up an interesting point earlier too: why is it that everybody who seems to be against the reopening of CC ranks is ranked or not in Australiasia or both? Oh, and by the way, you weren't at all being "mean". You were just debating the same way everyone else does, it's fine. =) ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  00:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Was doing my last wiki-check before going to bed when I saw this. :P Anyway... my point I was trying to make in my previous paragraph was that the incident above is not an example of having no ranks in the chat. Someone prompted Legaking to flame; he didn't start flaming for no reason. Is that solely his problem?
However, I guess I wouldn't mind the clan chat page being opened again... I want to see other peoples' comments on this.  Tien  01:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I see what you mean. I do think a kicker was necessary, however. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  01:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
So a kicker was necessary to solve a problem that the clan chat users themselves caused?  Tien  15:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - By the way, I understand there are issues regarding how many people can fit on R S Wikia's friends list. I think C Teng needs to clear it out a little. For example:

  • When Stinkowing lost his rank, I noticed he was still on R S Wikia's friends list (marked by the smiley face icon next to his username). This is needlessly taking up a space.
  • Both of InstantWinston's accounts are ranked (his main and his pure). Only the one he uses most needs to be ranked.

There might be more, I don't know. Once again, they're just examples. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  02:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Neutral - We have enough ranks at any time I'm on, sometimes having more ranks then non-ranks. But, opening it up only to people in a specific time zone would be unfair as well, So I'm staying neutral unless there are some good arguments. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 03:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Opening the request only for one time zone does not seem right. As most people said, we have enough ranks. Most of the time when there are no ranks, the chat does not need any kicking at all. Santa hat.png Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 10:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Per all above and aall above and all that may be below --— Enigma 15:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Uh, so you both support and oppose this?  Tien  15:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Oops typed it twice. No, I oppose this, but I support the below Proposal --— Enigma 15:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose per others. Rollback crown.svg Spencer (Talk | Edits | Contribs) 19:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposal

Reopen RFRs to all users, to give people in the Austrailian area a chance to be ranked, and any user not in the Austrailian area may still request a rank.

Discussion

Support - As nominater --— Enigma 15:44, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Nominator* http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 16:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - There can be no such thing as too many trusted people with kicking powers, as long as we know who has the powers. http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 16:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, technically, there IS... when we fill R S Wikia's Friend List. >_> But I get your point. I support; while we may have plenty of Ranked Users, it doesn't hurt to have more, like we've always stressed with Admins. So long as power abuse doesn't become an issue- and it shouldn't, considering how Ranks are chosen by consensus, and in the event of power abuse, C Teng can unrank them, and any Crat/Admin/Forum Admin can deal with them- I see no problem with keeping RfCC open. --Beware the underrated. Pikaandpi Berserker Fury!Hit hard or go home. 16:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - This proposal is either the exact same thing as the initial one, or is violating RS:AEAE. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 18:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Voilating AEAE? What? How? http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 18:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Dave, this proposal emphasises that people who live on the east coast would be given an unfair chance compared to people who don't. Voters could use "coz he lives in GMT +10" as a reason for supporting a nominee. cflm (talk) 18:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Just wanna let you guys know that I'm GMT+10 and Calebchiam and I are usually on. Santa hat.png Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 00:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflicts) (To Dave) By only allowing a select group of individuals (those living/claiming to live in the Austrailian time zone) to be able to request a rank means we are not treating all editors equally.
(To Doucher) No, the first proposal was to open RfRs to users living in Eastern Austrailia only; this one is reopen RfRs to all users.
I slightly support this; the need for effective mediators in this time zone is slightly more compelling than the lack of need of users in other time zones. And as long as it is open to all, AEAE is being followed. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 18:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Exactly. http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 21:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Support - Per all of my reasons above this proposal. Lovely torso armourSupirion1Talk Contribs #Summoning.png 19:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - This just got shot down so why are you bothering.. this is a waste of time and it's already come to the point where a lot of people want a rank just for the sake of having one. There are rarely incidents where a kick is necessary, and the ignore list and the report abuse feature always works for those rare occasions. Andrew talk 01:00, 13 June 2009 (UTC) Support - This is what I was trying to suggest above (not Supirion's suggestion). And to D4K: how is this new suggestion violating AEAE? It's saying that ANYONE can request a rank. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  04:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per all support. We need more. Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 06:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per all support. yeah we need more ranks Quest point cape.png Dryrth Talk Quest map icon.png 14:00, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

No.. we don't. Look how many ranked users we have and look how many people want a rank for the sake of having one. Andrew talk 18:17, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, when is this going to end? The requests page has only been closed for a few weeks and no one has been able to provide sufficient evidence that shows that we need more ranked users. Ideally you need one ranked user in the clan chat at a time. We usually have half a dozen or more in the clan chat at a time and a kick and even a warning is almost never needed. You have showed evidence of a few rare occasions, all of which could have been ended by utilizing the ignore list. You can say we need more all you want, but I have no doubt that this controversy will keep going back and forth until R S Wikia's friends list is full. Andrew talk 18:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Utilizing the ignore list...? So, with the same logic, you're saying we don't need people with ranks at all...? http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 20:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
No.. it means that you can when there are no ranked users. Andrew talk 14:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, they're saying that the clan chat occasionally has no ranks during Australian time. The problem is, we can't open the chat just to those in Australian time because it would violate AEAE, and if we open the page to all users, we'll get even more people in US time zones requesting a rank, and we have more than enough ranked users in that time zone. Also, I agree that no evidence has been provided that says we need more ranked users. The Legaking incident was not an example of the chat having a lack of ranked users, because as I mentioned before, it was the chat chat users themselves that caused the incident... if they hadn't sparked it, no ranked users would have been necessary.
Again, I'm not strongly opposed to reopening the requests, but some good evidence for why the page should be reopened would be nice.  Tien  18:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Slight Support Just due to the fact that AEAE isn't being breached. Per Tien and others. --Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 20:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - No such thing as to many ranked, and if we only open it to aussie's then that is not AEAE is it.Joe Click Here for Awesomeness14:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Do we really need a clan chat full of sergeants?... Andrew talk 14:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Is there anything wrong with having a clan chat full of seargents? --— Enigma 15:40, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
If there's too many ranks, it could be abused if tempers rise. --Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 16:54, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - There is an odd time where the CC is empty of ranks, but if you can't find a kicker I know of several admins and ranked who are usually here or online. Add the list in the CVU to your friends list and check here in the recent changes for recently active admins. If you need a kick that bad I'm sure you can find someone.

Bonziiznob Talk

17:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - If there is a troublesome user, report them, and use the ignore list. Advise others to do the same. Also, many times you may look at the recent changes to find an admin that can be on. ~MuzTalk 19:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - I am often up at 2-3am my time, (I live in Pacific USA timezone) and there are many times which I seem to be the only one that can kick on. At this time many people are on that live on the opposite side of the world. It seems to me that most kickers on the CC live in the United States or something, and we have plenty on at prime times there. A troll or spammer could just come right in a ruin a good clan chat for everyone. Plus, this is similar to the discussion we had a while back about if we have enough Admins. The consensus was to accept more. As long as they are trustworthy and will do their jobs. We shouldn't disallow or allow people to have a rank just based off where they live. So I say we should let more people have ranks, just make sure they can do their jobs well. Lets also have a few people that are in the CC a lot and know really what they're doing, not just sometimes. Quality over quantity. Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 17:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

You were the only kicker but there only needed to be one kicker in order to kick. ;) Also, the key word there is could. Someone could come in and start breaking rules. If that happens and there is no kicker available (which is rare) then you can report them and/or use your ignore list. Like I said, there is absolutely no reason to need a clan chat full of sergeants. Andrew talk 17:58, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't want a clan chat full of sergeants either, but the goal is to have at least one ranked person in the CC at all times. Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 18:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
If we reopen this then it will be a clan chat full of sergeants. It's already close to that most of the time. Andrew talk 18:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Also, what if it comes to the point that there are too many people ranked, and many are sergents, how would we make room for more admins if there is a successful RfA? Surely this would be unfair to those that already have the rank to give up a rank for another. ~MuzTalk 19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


Strong support We should ensure that there is always a ranked player on the cc, or not have ranked players at all. I know that alot of the time there are superfluous amounts of ranked players, but the times when there are none are have a larger impact. If the average player plays 1 hour per day, then 100 ranked players should be enough to cover all times, we just need them to be better distributed --Serenity1137 14:05, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

No.. 100 ranked players is way too many and there is almost always at least one ranked user in the chat. I will once again reiterate that having to kick someone is extremely rare and a lot of people here are making it sound a lot worse than it is. Andrew talk 14:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Also, there is no way to "evenly distribute" ranked users. They play when they want to. The end. Andrew talk 14:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, firstly, there is not almost always atleast one ranked person in the cc, as often as not there isnt anyone. Secondly, there is a way to have them better distributed, pick people who are in the right time zones (and I'm not saying this to get ranked, I'm in the uk, I'm saying this because I think its good policy) --Serenity1137 21:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, there is, and as I already said, a kick and even a warning is almost never needed so a ranked user in the chat usually isn't necessary. As for distribution, that would mean de-ranking a lot of people to make way for users from different time zones because most people are from the US. Andrew talk 21:56, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment - This is a lose lose situation. We CANNOT open ranks to only people in right time zones, as that would brutally violate RS:AEAE. Opening it to all would mean a sergean overpopulation. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 00:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment - I suppose so. I'm not going to change my vote but I will no longer take part in this discussion. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  04:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
In reply to soldier, that argument implies that ranks are not needed at all. And in this case I dont think AEAE is violated as all editors aren't equally good for the job. For the same reason, not hiring someone who is massively handicapped and can't walk as a bodyguard isn't prejudice, its just getting the right person for the job --Serenity1137 13:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC) (forgot to sign earlier, sorry)
OK, I know I said I would no longer argue on this discussion but I've changed my mind. A lot of people have been telling me to find a sysop on recent changes. Well, earlier I needed some help on the forums and I looked on recent changes for a sysop or forumadmin. When I opened the page, Caleb was the only sysop on within approximately half an hour, and it took him about twenty mintues to respond because he was offline (and I have the screenshots to prove it, I'll be uploading them soon). Here is the message I left on Caleb's talk page: [2]. So, recent changes doesn't always work either. How about this scenario, for instance:
  • Someone comes and starts causing problems with no kickers in the CC.
  • We all add him to ignore; problem seemingly solved.
  • This person keeps coming back with different accounts, spamming, flaming or advertising.
  • There are no sysops on recent changes. What now?

I'm not saying this has happened, but what if it did? We should always have enough kickers in case a situation DOES arise. I know this is rare, but that's the whole point of having kickers in the first place. We CAN add more kickers, but we choose not to. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  09:50, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

ENOUGH OF THE WHAT IFS. We have to be realistic here. That never has happened and I don't think it ever will, but if it ever did happen then it wouldn't be long before a sysop or ranked user was on. To reply to serenity, your example is irrelevant and my argument doesn't imply that ranks aren't needed at all. It flat out states that there are already too many ranked users, kicks and even warnings are almost never needed as I have been saying all along, and people are just nominating themselves for clan chat ranks because they want a rank for the sake of having one. I'm really getting sick and tired of all of this when no one has even been able to come up with a genuine reason for needing more ranks besides screenshots from a couple months ago and a bunch of what if scenarios. Andrew talk 14:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment - I agree with Soldier here. I've seen severeal dozens people come in saying "hi im new how do i get rankd herre/". May I remind everyone that ranks are a neccessary evil and a breach to RS:AEAE, and only exist for practical reasons? The only real reason why would we need more ranks is if over half the current ones quit. Unlike admins, ranked users rarely have much work to do. The idea of trusted users was originally created to supplement the administrators, and it has succeeded as such. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 15:30, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


Obviously people shouldn't be ranked for the sake of it, and it is true that ranks aren't needed that often, but they are - as D4K said - a necessary evil. Necessary. If you dispute the necessity of ranks, then move to get rid of them, but it is unfair to have them at sometimes but not others, either there should be ranks at the vast majority of times, or there should never be ranks at all. The middle ground doesn't make sense. --Serenity1137 17:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
More ranks are added when they are needed. They aren't needed right now, unless you can stop coming up with what ifs and give me a real reason. Andrew talk 17:13, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, point made Andrew. Request for closure. =) ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  17:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Repeat: request for closure. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  08:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
To what Andrew said: Since nobody seems to believe that there is a need for ranked people, I might start a log of the amount of ranked people on. I realise that it will be pointless right now since this discussion has run its course, but it might be useful in the future. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk

Closed - Requested by original poster. The "Requests for CC rank" remains closed.   az talk   12:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)