Forum:Random Exchange???

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Forums: Yew Grove > Random Exchange???
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This thread was archived on 2 April 2008 by Endasil.

I think it get's annoying when you want a random page and it comes up with an Exchange: article. There is an exchange article nearly every item now so there is a high chance of geting one. Is there any way we can remove it from showing up? Or could there be like a category? Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]<Wiki MEETUP> 03:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Only way pretty much is to make Exchange: into its own namespace, which would have some other benefits as well. Problem is, that's easier said than done... Skill 04:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Lol I see. Who would be able to do this hard work? Beauracrat, Sysop or a normal user? Chwwrs,[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]<Wiki MEETUP> 05:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Only staff can create the actual namespace, but there's a lot of work for us to do before they'll do that. According to what I've read, we would have to move every page that starts with Exchange: to a different title, including the redirects that would result from the moves. Given that we have 1,350 pages that would have to be moved and then redirects deleted, this is a LOT of work... not to mention that we have to move all the pages back afterwards. We could probably get a bot to move the pages, if that simplifies anything, but there's still almost 3,000 deletions for all of us sysops to do even if we do get one. Skill 05:43, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Wow I guess that is a bit too much work. It would be good if there was like a filter that would block all articles with the word 'exchange' or something. Then the exchange articles would be filtered. Probably not possible though. I'm gonna work on my bot now. Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]<Wiki MEETUP> 06:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Re the page moves and deletion, if people were prepared to temporarily grant PointyBot admin rights I could update it to do a lot of the heavy lifting, especially the deletion, and we can demote it again afterwards. I'd need a bit of time to prepare the bot code to be able to do that, but I'm willing to put the effort in if it's something that will improve the wiki. Let me know if you think it will help and I'll raise an RFA for PointyBot. Pointy 14:24, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I could probably knock this up in a couple of days if needed. The bot might take longer to do the work as it's limited to 6 operations a minute = 3 articles (move, delete) = about 7:30 hours. I can increase the limit so it'd be quicker though. Pointy 01:10, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

An Exchange namespace

According to the custom namespaces policy of wikia, every wiki is allowed to have 3 custom namespaces. The RuneScape wiki has used one namespace on "Updates." Because several users have mentioned getting Exchange: pages when clicking random article (and it was also suggested at the start of the project), I propose we use our second custom namespace on creating an "Exchange" namespace. I don't consider this a "waste" as some users may argue, because the Exchange pages aren't really content articles. It will be tons of work moving over 1500 pages once, and then back again once the namespace is created. All redirects created will have to be deleted. Twice. Now, honestly that idea excites me, I love deleting things. :) However I know I'm not the only one on this wiki. This would take a lot of work and a lot of editors. I guess we could just move everything to something like "E:item name", have the namespace created, then move it back to "Exchange:item name" so that all the exchange pages stay together in the Alphabetical List. We need consensus before wikia will make a namespace, so here are my questions:

  1. Does everyone like the idea of using one of our custom namespaces?
  2. Will there be many users willing to pitch in and help?

Please discuss! =D ChristineTalkFlickr 00:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeh It's a good idea. But as stated above somewhere won't it be a hell of a lot of work for admin's? Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]<Wiki MEETUP> 07:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
If several admins are willing to help, it isn't as much work for each of us. I'm sure I could write a simple program to spit out deletion links so that there isn't as much clicking involved, possibly even with deletion summaries already filled in. Same with links to the move page, if no one writes a bot to do all the moves for us. It would also be easier to get this done if it's within the next few days while some of us are still on break... although that probably won't happen. Skill 09:22, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
OK. Well my bot is nearly finished and I'm looking for ideas. Also, If were gonna do this the bots editing Exchange articles will have to be turned off so they don't get confused when the articles are moved. Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]talk 11:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah it really sucks cuz Skill and I were on vacation all this week, and now it's nearly over. Again, it's a lot of work but I am so looking forward to it. :D Also, I have Monday off too, but like Skill said, I doubt we'll have consensus by then. ChristineTalkFlickr 13:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Maybe you could put a message up the tope of pages (That thing up the top that you can dismiss) that says we're trying to reach a consensus on making Exchange: an official namespace. I'll be away this weekend so i won't be able to help but if there is a list of supporters put my name on. [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]talk 05:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Added a link to the sitenotice. I doubt that we'll have a consensus by the end of the weekend, though (this is a big change). Skill 06:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
So de put like a Support/Oppose thing? [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]talk support-the-namespace 08:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it's fine the way it is, but feel free to add sections if it gets too cluttered (which is quite likely given that it's in the sitenotice). Skill 08:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been wondering: Do moves increase your edit count? May be coloured blue in the near
Each one counts as an edit in the destination namespace, but not the original one. So between all the users who help on this there will be an additional ~3,000 Exchange: edits. Edit counts shouldn't be a very big deal, though... Skill 09:11, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Lol by saying that there is probably gonna be heaps of people who would want to help now. It'll be like a Gold Rush. Just out of interest, would it go towards our Exchange: or mainspace edit-count? Because the namespace wouldn't be made when we are doing the editing. [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]talk support-the-namespace 09:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Definitely, I was going to suggest it too. There are so many Exchange articles, half the times you click Random Page, it comes out as and Exchange: article. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 16:37, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh yeah, I'll try to help do it too. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 16:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support, from everything I have written above. [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|33px]]talk support-the-namespace 08:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Wrote a few comments above. Skill 07:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Better for the Wiki as a whole, easy edit count inflation, etc. May be coloured blue in the near
  • Support Yes I have come across this a few times myself, I completely agree that this deserves its own namespace, I you want help tell me what you want doing and I'll try to do as much as poss. Green partyhat.png Bob2006ty(RUNESTORM333)  talk Green partyhat.png 12:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support This absolutely has to be done. Assuming all the item infobox templates could still correctly pull the prices from the Exchange: namespace. -- Atlantima talk trade contribs 15:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Strong Support for reasons above. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 16:41, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support because apparently doing this "official" proposal isn't viewed as support. -.- ChristineTalkFlickr 23:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support For the reasons above. Although it may be worth waiting to see what happens with the future Grand Exchange changes first. Morian Smith 14:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Suggestion to wait Jagex confirmed this week that they are doing pages of there own. May be worth seeing if they are good enough. User:Wilmslow 23:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
    • But we are an encyclopedia. We want all Jagex has, plus more. ChristineTalkFlickr 23:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
    • The GEMW project will still be valuable even if Jagex introduces price histories because it allows us to work with the values more directly to calculate things like indices. Also, we don't know whether this feature will include the prices over the last three months since the Exchange was released, parts of which we already have. Skill 00:07, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
    • And, we could update a bot to scrape the prices automatically from their site and populate the Exchange: pages. There's nothing about botting the RS website in the rules and even RuneScript does it with the highscore stuff. :-) Pointy 14:36, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support - seems like the right thing to do. Pointy 14:36, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
    • How long would we have to wait for the Exchange updates to finish? White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 14:38, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
      • I've added comments above in the main discussion section. Pointy 01:10, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
    • How much support do we need before it can be done? Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]Chicken7[[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]talk support-the-namespace 03:28, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Cool Spy0 05:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I'm getting tired of seeing Exchange stuff in all of the special pages, it's worth giving it it's own NS.Endasil (Talk) @ 06:00, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Piety.png Sir Lenehan Smite.png 01:26, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support i'm busy with university again this week but i'd try to help in the move Redekopmark 05:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support As you can see from my contribs I haven't been active recently, nor am I likely to be in the near future (last year of school), but I think the addition of a namespace for exchange articles is well and truly justified. Dechaineux Talk 11:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support the whole idea. --Drummer (speak) 15:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support - Been out for a while, was pretty busy, but I'm back now =). I've agreed with this idea since the GE price guide was started, but there was some discussion over namespace limits and it trailed off. I'm glad this was suggested again, it's a no-brainer. Slayer-icon.png Gangsterls Divination-icon.png talk21:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Totally Support--Alex 13:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose I see no problem with the exchange articles taking up article spaces.--Zeeus 04:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I just hope that a transition can be relatively quick and painless. --Amulet of nature.pngMakemesmileMud battlestaff.png 04:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I love the idea. I dont really use those pages, but still, its a great idea Chef's hat.png Altarius95 The Master Cook! Talk to me Cooking cape (t).png
  • Support - It's annoying to go random paging, and find a bunch of articles that aren't really articles. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!Loon is best buttlord 10:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I don't even hit random page button anymore, for this very reason.Is this close to concensus yet?--Degenret01 11:11, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Well this is my first edit to the yew grove, but anyways, I clicked on "Random page" 10 times and 3 of those 10 times I got an exchange article. They need their own namespace, there's just too many.Yellow partyhat.png Ilyas Talk Contribs 22:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Yeh when will this reach Community consensus. Only one oppose and I see a lot of the well-known community members here. Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]Chicken7 >talk>sign 09:36, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
      • Mainly we need to figure out whether this is going to be manual or bot-assisted, and whether we want to wait for Jagex to release their exchange information. Skill 22:16, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
        • OK then. What about we decide then because this support/oppose thing will go on for years. I say bot assisted and pending on waiting for Jagex. Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]Chicken7 >talk>sign 05:18, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Jagex already finished the GE updates. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 21:29, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
The update we're interested in is referenced here, second paragraph after "Grand Exchange Improvements:". That is, a website with graphical price tracking. This hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, been released. Endasil (Talk) @ 21:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Consensus Declared - I counted something like 22 supports, 1 oppose. I also agree with what Christine said: We're an encyclopedia. No matter how good Jagex's guides and help pages get, our information will be more complete (except in the case of new releases, perhaps). We have numbers on our side. That's why fansites are so popular ;). Plus, as a wiki, we can do all sorts of interesting things with code like the GE Market Watch that other fansites would have to write all their own code to do. Although as a community overall we are lacking in skilled programmers, and our site isn't exactly designed for the type of game tools that Zybez is known for (skill calcs, etc.) =(.

By the way, there are 4,512 Exchange: pages. Might want to write a bot to move them all. Slayer-icon.png Gangsterls Divination-icon.png talk01:28, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

So, when do we start? White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 23:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Exactly, When do we start. This part of the page isn't getting much attention. Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]Chicken7 >talk>sign 04:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
In case it gets lost in the discussion above, I'll repeat the offer to get PointyBot to do some of the heavy lifting. I don't know exactly what needs to happen though in terms of moving pages around so I'll need someone to tell me what it needs to do. Pointy 13:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Every page that begins with "Exchange:" has to be moved to some other title, probably in the template or project namespaces (doesn't really matter which). History has to be preserved, so the move function would have to be used, leaving behind redirects. Those would have to be deleted, then we go to staff and get the namespace made. After that, we basically reverse the process, moving the exchange pages back to their original titles and probably deleting the redirects resulting from that as well. I should note that since most of us go on break soon, it would be nice to be able to do any manual parts necessary during that time. Not really required, though. Skill 00:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Cool. I'll start updating PointyBot tonight to allow it to do page moves. A couple more questions:
When should it start actually moving pages?
What do we do about deleting redirects? I guess an admin delete-fest might the best way, unless there are no objections to ***temporary*** admin status for PointyBot.
I really want to delete =[ ChristineTalkFlickr 18:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Lol. Does that mean no work for 'average' users? If so, that's fine. Cheers, [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]Chicken7 >talk>sign 06:45, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I've updated PointyBot and it's ready and raring to go. It will take about 4-5 hours to move all 1500-ish Exchange: pages at a rate of 1 every 10 seconds. I just need to know when everyone's going to be ready to delete the redirect pages and I can get it started. Pointy 14:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Where do we stand, wiki? Are we ready to do this? I think Pointy's just waiting for the "ok, go" and as I came really late into this topic, I'm not the one to make the call. As for deleting, I really don't think it'll be too bad to do manually. But Pointy, could you adjust the bot to move each page, but then edit the resultant redirect and add a category such as Category:Speedy deletion candidates or another category specifically designed for this update? That would make deleting pretty easy for admins. Endasil (Talk) @ 00:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Alright, I just talked to Christine and Skill, and we think we're good to go. Pointy, you have a green light to start moving the articles. Make sure they're all named consistently, something like "Exchange_old:Itemname". And, as I mentioned above, it would be really helpful if your bot edited all of the resultant redirect pages to add a category. Let's call it [[:Category:Exchange garbage]], and we can delete the category when we're done. Endasil (Talk) @ 00:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Christine beat me to the punch, so you can disregard my duplications above, but what she says makes sense...instead of adding the category, replace the contents of the page with the category. Endasil (Talk) @ 00:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
As a sidenote to what Endasil said, if PointyBot could actually replace the page with {{D|Exchange move}} or something similar, rather than just adding it to the page, then admins could go to the category without getting redirected, as a redirect page disregards any text on the page and redirects no matter what. I propose we move them all to something similar to Exchange:, like E: or something, then we can move back to Exchange after we have the namespace. Christine 00:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
After a discussion on IRC, we've come up with a different mechanism for deleting the old pages. Pointy, your bot no longer needs to do anything with the old Exchange: pages, just leave them as they are. Endasil (Talk) @ 01:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Cool. I started it running at about 19:50 GMT and it's doing 1 article every 5 seconds or so. I'm on IRC so I'll see you there if you log on. Pointy 18:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)