Forum:Quests and quest series

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This thread was archived on 9 February 2017 by Liquidhelium.

When is a quest part of a series? I noticed that nowadays people just make a quest related if a character from one other series also features in this quest. But what is the limit? Should the quest series navboxes even have related quests based on this statement? We need some guide lines as to how it is decided what quest is part of which series and if they're related just based on one single character. Example being recent quests like Nomad's Elegy, Children of Mah and Sliske's Endgame.

I suggest to remove related quests that only have one related character. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 06:14, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

Suggested guidelines:

  1. If a quest continues the storyline from a previous quest (not simply featuring one or more of the same characters), then it is part of that series.
  2. If Jagex states that a quest is part of a series, be it through the release notes, name of the quest e.g. the Elemental workshop series, or some other means. Then it is part of that series.

Discussion

Support - Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 06:14, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Ad hoc decisions are probably best. Sometimes, a series is pre-defined by Jagex so we stick to that (e.g. were it not officially the second quest, we might have well listed Missing My Mummy as 'related' to the Mysteries of the Mahjarrat series at best), and sometimes the choices are obvious. When they are not, just use common sense. Setting a rule of 'one character' seems fairly arbitrary and there are probably cases where it would not hold. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 09:28, January 1, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - "We need some guide lines as to how it is decided what quest is part of which series and if they're related just based on one single character. Example being recent quests like Nomad's Elegy, Children of Mah and Sliske's Endgame." Jagex themselves call this a quest line, as based on the adventures interface at the time of Sliske's Endgame's release Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 12:19, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

No, what I meant was, we know for a fact that they're part of the Sliske quest series, but there's no official mention of those quests being part of any other quest series. Which is what I'm referring to above. I can see how you thought I was talking about Sliske, but it's just a fact that it's his series officially as decided by Jagex, but I was referring to other characters like Zanik, Linza, or Hazelmere. The addition of these characters causes some editors to add the quest as a related quest to their respective series while the quest isn't even related to that series, just the character that plays in both the quest and that series. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 12:44, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Comment/support - Seems to me the easiest way to go about deciding which series (if any) a quest belongs in is to go by two basic guidelines.

  1. If a quest continues the storyline from a previous quest (not simply featuring the one or more of the same characters), then it is part of that series.
  2. If Jagex states that a quest is part of a series, be it through the release notes, name of the quest e.g. the Elemental workshop series, or some other means. Then it is part of that series.

Either way, I don't pay much attention to the quest "series" anyways, but I do see the reasoning behind having the series listed and I support a change towards making the assignment of a series to a quest more accurate. Suaraun (talk) 15:10, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Seems like fine guidelines to me and those make the most sense. I've copied and pasted them to above. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 15:20, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
How do you define "continues the storyline"? Featuring a character also continues a storyline, if only by a tiny little bit. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 15:20, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
I'd interpret that as for instance Hazelmere featuring in Elegy didn't continue the gnome series, it simply extended his personal story. So for instance the game for the SoJ was a recurring theme in Sliske's series, the elven resistance fighting against Lord Iorwerth was a recurring theme for the elven/plague series, etc. So long the quest shares a common thread, it could be seen as a series, and an NPC's personal story isn't necessarily a common thread for a quest series. IMO. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 15:25, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
And how will we decide if a series exists? Does the Druid's Circles quest series exist? What about the Hazelmere quest series? Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 15:28, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
A certain Fswe1 insists the Druid's Circle "series" is a series, though I personally disagree heavily and feel that if it ever was a series, it's been retconned entirely. Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 06:49, January 5, 2017 (UTC)
That is a good question, I know I created that particulair article, but that was based on the current series named on the list of quest series article. Is it even a series? Other series are established, like Desert and Myreque, but Druid's Circles I'm not sure about. And there's no Hazelmere quest series, just gnome/Glouphrie series. :P Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 15:39, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
We actually need Jagex to confirm what quest series there are, somehow. Apart from the ones already confirmed. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 15:40, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
I don't think there is much point in discussing the question posed in this thread without a formal definition of "quest series". One can come up with arbitrary series based on characters involved if there is no clear definition. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 15:46, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
This is basically the question I want to see answered, kinda the reason I started this thread. We need a formal definition of "quest series". Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 15:54, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, I phrased it poorly. What I mean is that case 1 of the suggestions needs to be formalised - what does it mean to continue a storyline? Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 16:05, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
- I guess what I was getting at for point 1 was to the effect of the quest's story as a whole. For example Druid's Circles quest series I would say is a "series" because Eadgar's Ruse continues the main story line of Druidic Ritual. However, I would argue that there is no Hazelmere series, because most, if not all of the quests he's featured in are continuing a seperate storyline, be it Mahjarrat, Gnomeor Glouphrie series. Yes, there are also continuations of his story present within the story, but it is not the main focus of the quest. I guess to clarify I would say:
  • a series is present when a quest's main focus is on a continued story line featured in one or more quests.
  • In some cases, a quest may belong within more than one series due to intertwining story lines, for example the Dragonkin quest series, the Mahjarrat quest series, and the Sliske quest series have intertwining stories to some extent (some very closely at times), but not all of the quests in each series continue the story of the other series and thus should be listed as separate series.
Bottom line, it might take going through the quest series page and doing a series by series "vote" of sorts, to determine exactly which are a series, and which are just related quests. Some are obvious, some not so much. I know that's a lot of work and is likely to much of a hassle to be worth it, but short of Jagex telling us specifically what series there are and what quests they contain, it might be the only way. Suaraun (talk) 17:17, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
I think deciding by consensus on a case-by-case basis is best. For instance Monkey Madness and Do No Evil don't really follow the same storyline, they are just related by location and some characters, but I would still call it the Monkey quest series. The requirement then would be to prevent people creating new quest series out of nowhere without consensus - I am not sure if this is desirable. You could argue that that's what talk pages are for but who uses talk pages in 2017? I don't think common sense cuts it, because I would personally never call the druid circles a quest series; that opinion is clearly not shared. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 17:57, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
I would, on the grounds that Eadgar's Ruse shares the same core story as Druidic Ritual and its post-queat dialogue clearly indicates a sequel. Jagex's having reworked DR out of the series and neglected the intended sequel to ER for thirteen years does not help, however. >_> User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 18:43, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Each quest needs to be considered individually, and I suggest that if there is conflict over this then it is discussed on that quest's talk page. I do agree that we need to be stricter regarding what we class as a series and what we don't. For example, Sliske quest series could be considered just God quest series. The majority of the quests in the former series are part of the latter, except Kindred Spirits, which you could actually say was a standalone quest. We're blurring the lines by considering anything that is a requirement to another quest as part of the same series. Take Kindred Spirits again: I see it more as a standalone quest. Just because it requires Missing, Presumed Death does not make it part of the same series as say, Sliske's Endgame. For quests that involve Sliske, Jagex stated they were calling it "Sliske's Countdown". But why does that make it it's own quest series? The God quest series should be adequate for these quests. Sliske's participation in the big events of The World Wakes mean that, if we were using our current categorisation, that would be part of Sliske's quest series. It just doesn't make any sense. To me, Sliske's series is at best a 'sub-series' of the God one. Alternatively, it can be a so-called 'sub-series' of the Mahjarrat quest series, just like Mysteries of the Mahjarrat, The Rise of Lucien quest series, Arrav quest series, and so on. This is a difficult one to discuss, and to be honest after reading the comments above, I'd probably say that even Jagex wouldn't specifically have an idea on what quest is in what 'series', I doubt they'd have defined them. Their quest requirements give an indication, but that's all it is. If a quest was to require Ritual of the Mahjarrat, River of Blood, and A Fairy Tale III - Battle at Ork's Rift, make vague mentions/appearances from the Mahjarrat or Myreque, yet heavily features fairies and a fairy antagonist, we'd class it as being in the Fairy Tale quest series, right? For the others, it would just be a related quest. Again, it's tricky, and I have no proper solution to this, but this is how I see quest series in my head. jayden 18:57, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Alternately one may say that there is no "God quest series". They are just quests relating to Gods. They are not even about the Gods coming back (as the description on the page says) - for instance the Mighty Falls is terrible about the events after Bandos's demise. There is no overarching storyling to the supposed quest series. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 19:55, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
I concur. As far as I am concerned, there is no common overarching plot connecting e.g. The Death of Chivalry, The Mighty Fall and Dishonour among Thieves. Other than "gods appear", which is not a plot. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 10:30, January 4, 2017 (UTC)
I agree as well. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 11:00, January 4, 2017 (UTC)
Further agreeing Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 08:03, January 5, 2017 (UTC)
I see this the exact opposite. Kindred Spirits directly follows up events from several quests. ROTM, Dishonor Among Thieves, Broken Home, Nomad's Elegy, and Missing, Presumed Death all have plot points that feed into the quest. It also leads directly into Sliske's Endgame with the Barrows Brother's slight freedom and what Sliske's goals are and who his master is. Kindred Spirits is far more of the Sliske series than random quests with Gods in them are for a "God" series. Just because a quest has a god in it doesn't make it a Gods series in my eyes. But when the quests have a connecting fabric, they're absolutely part of a series. Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 08:03, January 5, 2017 (UTC)
Kindred Spirits is definitely not related to Broken Home or Nomad's Elegy. By that logic, The Elder Kiln and The Firemaker's Curse share a common plot too. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 11:57, January 5, 2017 (UTC)
Events within Broken Home are directly referenced in Kindred Spirits via one of the books. Nomad's Elegy is the quest in the Sliske series right before Kindred Spirits and they relate as they are each a part of Sliske's plans and actions leading up to Endgame, just like MOTM. Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 10:21, January 10, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Since this discussion seems to be going nowhere past the first two suggested criteria, would it be simpler just to do away with quest series in favor of quest categories? It would essentially be the same thing, but would allow some leeway for cases like the god series, druidic ritual series, or sliske series. In addition, for quests that have been officially recognized by Jagex as a series, could have a new infobox at the top of the page to say something along the lines of "this quest is recognized by Jagex as being part of the X quest series" with a link to a page for that series. It could mean a lot of work to redo the current pages, delete unneeded pages, and create any new pages for series, but it might solve the dilemma of trying to figure out what defines a series since category is a much broader term. Thoughts? Suaraun (talk) 13:13, January 5, 2017 (UTC)

Not really a fan of that. We *have* established quest series created by Jagex, so doing away with that categorization would cause more confusion than it would help. I'm not even sure we need to worry about how things are handled now. Related quests *aren't* part of a quest series, but are noted on the series information because they have some specific relation to the series. Don't see how any of this really ends up being an issue at all. Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 10:29, January 10, 2017 (UTC)

Comment/Slight Oppose - I don't see the harm of having quests that have relevant relations to other quests in the "related quests infobox". While I get some complaints about things getting packed, this isn't a super common occurrence, and only serves as a positive, pushing players using the wiki to check out other related quests if they enjoyed what they got from that quest/series. I don't really see any negatives to the current "policy". Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 10:29, January 10, 2017 (UTC)

Support for suggested guidelines/Comment - Most of the time, a quest series will probably be clear cut. Someone can always bug a jmod to get better details. --Deltaslug (talk) 00:55, January 12, 2017 (UTC)

Closed - There is a rough consensus to utilize the suggested guideline. Editors should keep in mind that classifying quests under various quest series can be finicky, sometimes by design. --LiquidTalk 20:36, February 9, 2017 (UTC)