On the page RuneScape:Votes for deletion/File:File-Noobcalling.png, when I offered my genuine opinion, Chiafriend12 said: You know that we have an article with "bitch", "fuck", "shit", "penis", "cunt", "nigger" and "anal sex" on it, right? We had a vote where we decided that we, as a community, liked to eat kindergarteners and wouldn't worry about offending people. :P
I am afraid that I do not quite understand his point, though I am a little disturbed by this, and, well, by him. I don't know this user well, but I've met rather few players on RuneScape would use such language. I just don't really get his point of inserting that at all. I mean, seriously, what could be more pointless and less relevant than that? Even a lowly user of eight hundred edits here must be somewhat familiar with the policies, and while I at first appreciated his effort to enlighten me, I was rather angered by the implication. Chiafriend's tone seemed almost amused, in a way. I cannot quite understand why such comments were felt needed on the discussion page of a mere image, nor can I fully fathom why he apparently singled me out from all the opposers before me. I have since contacted several users whom appear to have considerable experience, and while all have helped me as best they can, one of them, Gaz Lloyd, suggested I discuss this with more editors here, which I have agreed to do. Some of the users I individually contacted have opposed me views, some have not quite clearly expressed their own opinions, and some agree that he should have omitted such language. About the "eating" kindergarteners part, I, like, just didn't get that, or its intended humor, great as he may find it, and Psyko Robot's explanation, well-meaning as it was, has only disturbed me more at the implication, as such thoughts had not quite previously occurred to me. Also, in what situation, exactly, would one use the term "nigger", on here or on RuneScape? Is racism even allowed on any wiki, regardless of how comfortable the community may feel about it? I shall admit I was particularly insulted by that particular term. Maybe you might think I was wrongly offended by his words, but I ask you this: Why are so, so many of users blocked if their own messages were not deemed inappropriate? And shouldn't all the blocked sysops be unbanned at once if such policies of the wiki now hold?
Additionally, I am quite well aware of the Swearing Forums that were at one point had many users participate in, and I basically find it tiring that we as a community would even argue about such things. I admit I was perhaps more upset than reasonable at first, but, well, it was my first effort to really reach out into the community here, and look at the trouble it has landed me in. As I have perhaps mentioned on another forum, I was already not enthusiastic about socializing here, and now I truly regret to have even tried. Chiafriend12, I know, is a highly respected and experienced user here, and I hold high respect for everything he has done to help this wiki, and I know my poor edits compared with his own will doubtless garner much support for him. However, I beg you all to at least try to make an impartial judgement on this, as it is the first and likely the last topic I shall ever post. Other users suggested I contact Chiafriend himself for a better explanation. While attempts were made to contact him to let him clarify his meanings, he has not yet deigned to apparently respond, while he is now aware of the situation, as Gaz Lloyd has informed me that he has spoken with Chiafriend and he wishes to speak to me in-game. While I was at first confused, at I believe this entire discussion has more to do with the wiki than the game itself, as Gaz Lloyd has pointed out to me before when mentioning that the RS Wikia is not RS, every time I log in, I have been unable to message Chiafriend, despite my best efforts. More details about this issue can be found on my own talk page and the talk pages of those I have contacted. Please, I know this may seem childish and even laughable to some of you, I personally take it as somewhat of a serious offence, regardless of how many contributions he has made or how many friends he has here.
Basically, I shall conclude my thoughts for now with this: Was it entirely necessary for Chiafriend12 to leave those comments on such a page, which his words had really nothing to do with? Thank you. Ralnon (talk) 22:16, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - although I agree that that wasn't the most appropriate comment ever made on this wiki, Chia obviously had no bad intentions. I think that this is being blown waaaaaay out of proportion. Andrew talk 22:21, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - This is over the top, and I should point out that Chiafriend12 does not speak for the community in this manner. To suggest otherwise is misleading and just plain wrong. That the VfD on the Slang dictionary did happen is true, but it was highly controversial and from my perspective something without consensus.... just as the warning on the talk page of this article states. I see it as a page that is on thin ice, and something that may be deleted in the future. Certainly I hold any editor in much less esteem when they use vulgarity on such a level, and I do dismiss their opinions as immature. We can do better as a community, and this is certainly not who we are at our best.
I, too, am disturbed by several members of this community who choose to engage in such vulgar language, and in the interest of building our community I would request that some proper decorum ought to be used in general discussions. To answer you basic question, NO, it was not necessary for chiafriend12 to leave comments like this on any discussion page of this wiki at all. --Robert Horning 22:35, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - I've had a lot of say on this, though my opinion has changed slightly since my last response: maybe it wasn't the best way to phrase what he said, maybe he shouldn't have done it at all, but his intentions where good and meant no harm (much as Andrew said). Also, for the benefit of others: the 'eat kindergardeners' comment I'm sure is a reference to Talk:Stfu - where the prevailing option in a poll on censorship was
No I eat kindergardeners lets uncensor it. 23:22, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
- ...I'm going to stand up for Chia and say that he didn't do anything wrong. What he said made sense in the context. We shouldn't have to cater to people who are sensitive to random letters jumbled together and given meaning. May I ask what you are trying to achieve by taking this to the YG and blowing all of this out of proportion? Are you trying to get him desysopped or blocked? Are you trying to get him to apologize? With all due respect, this shouldn't be on the YG.
I think you are blowing this far out of proportion and pursuing this mater to the point of arbitration. I understand how you might be offended by it, but the simple fact is that Chiafriend did not mean anything bad. I think its rather uncouth of you to continue to embarrass him by bringing this up again and again. Yes, he made a rather strange comment, and yes it could be (and was) taken out of context, but I simply do not understand what you expect to be gained from this.23:31, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
To be frank, some things in your post disturb me far more than that quote. I am unsure as to your knowledge of our policies, but I daresay that calling users lowly and judging them by their edit counts violates a very important one. As Soldier has kindly stated above, Chiafriend's intentions were for the betterment of the project, and an attempt for some comic relief has never hurt anyone before. What you may think is relevant may be entirely different from someone else's opinion, so there is no need criticise another's opinion. Doucher4000******r4000 23:48, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
To be frank, I myself am somewhat offended by your message. The 'lowly' user I spoke of was merely myself...I mean, come on, seriously, if you're going to oppose my views, at least get your facts right. All you have shown is that you have a rather poor grasp of this situation, and know little of both me and Chiafriend12, as the latter has far more than eight hundred edits and thus could not be the one I spoke of. And, Psyko Robot, please, don't 'embarass' us all even further by claiming that I am embarassing or trying to embarass Chiafriend. You have no right to speak for him, no matter how close the two of you are on here. He has not come here himself. Besides, I only started this because Gaz Lloyd suggested I post this to the community, which I felt a reasonable response as well. Doucher, kindly remember that all editors here are equal, and your comments were just childish in that you were disturbed more by mine words. If you want, maybe I should have taken other options into consideration here, but I shall wait and see for this one to lay out first. Ralnon (talk) 04:06, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
- I just don't understand what you're after. You've already asked a ton of people about this, and they've all said pretty much the same thing... What exactly do you want to hear? 04:09, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Um, not really, Psyko Robot. Forgive me, but I am frankly offended at the arrogance of you speaking for 'a ton of people' here. From my talk page, no, not everyone agrees with you, no matter how you may wish it so. You know, Chiafriend12 has still not replied yet to any message sent to him concerning this. I simply wish to hear more community members participate in this forum discussion, and to address the rather invalid points you and several other users here made. Thank you, Ralnon (talk) 04:12, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
- I am not speaking for "a ton of people". I was remarking on the fact that you have already asked numerous people about this same issue, and all of the answers were pretty much the same, yet none of them seem to have satisfied you. 04:17, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Then, Psyko Robot, I'm sorry. But what can I do now then? Just forget about the fact that Chiafriend has completely ignored me about this while a dozen others are discussing it? Or should I drop the whole thing? Will that be the only thing that will satisfy you? As I said, you are more experienced than I here, but not on wikis in general, and even if I could forget about this whole thing, why wouldn't similar topics emerge eventually? Come on, you saw the Swearing Forums. Yeah, lol, but a lot of users participated in those forums, and their opinions were actually pretty conflicting. I have tried to be as civil and as reasonable as possible here, but it's still not enough at you. I'm sorry, but the real reason that I'm offended is that from his message, he almost seemed not to take me seriously, and that really ticks me off, treating me like some 'noob', some lowly user whose views could not compare with his own. I may be overreacting, but if Chiafriend12 is indeed aware of this whole thing, as Gaz Lloyd says he is, why can't he just send me one freaking message? What should I have done, then, and what should I do now? Ralnon (talk) 04:47, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Advice - Ralnon, in my experience on the wiki and in life, if you have a problem with something someone has said (or written), let them know directly. 99% of the time, they will explain what they meant, let you know they don't mean any harm, and that will be the end of it. Getting other people involved, and bringing it up to the entire community, are things to be done after direct contact doesn't work. So, leave a message on his talk page. At this point, however, you may want to apologize for getting so many other people involved. If for some reason, direct contact doesn't work, come back to others, and then, if all else is failing, come to the community. This is only my personal advice, but it may help here. Cheers, 05:52, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Really? Well, if that is truly your opinion, then I will say this: No, I will not apologize for 'getting so many people involved', for it was what I was directed to do, and for which the Yew Grove is used for. He has not responded to the messages sent to him on the wiki, and has insisted I contact him in-game. I tried and failed. I really do not know how clearer I can make myself. Tollerach, as much as I appreciate such sound advice, you, like, did not really touch upon the points I had brought up. If you are simply tired of this topic, then please, there is no more need for you yourself to post. Thank you, Ralnon (talk) 06:52, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
- Ralnon, I find your tone to be quite whiny and childish. Do you want him to apologise? Be blocked or desysopped? I know Chia quite well, and although what he said might have been inappropriate, I know he meant well. He was using that sentence to demonstrate a point (that the image was nowhere near as offensive as a certain article on the wiki) and it's not that big of a deal. ~ Sentry Telos Talk 07:31, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - Personally, I'm not really sure why you would make this into a forum discussion. I'm a bit put off by it. Yes, this does involve the community, but really, come on. This was a small thing said by Chia, a well known and respected user. In my opinion, even if he wasn't polite, he can afford not to be every once in awhile with his stance in the wiki (I think RS:AEAE isn't totally correct). We all can. It's not like Chia cussed you out. I understand where you're coming from, but maybe you should've thought that posting this would make you look kind of...lame, whiny (as said above), and a bit neurotic. Did Chia hurt your feelings? Aww, let's back up the whambulance. I have to agree with Soldier (no surprise there) that you're blowing this out of proportion. It was just an innocent remark. On the internet, though, it can sometimes be hard to tell when someone's joking around. Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 08:06, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - I do not understand why you brought this to the YG. Just ask him nicely what he meant, he'll explain and you're done. Those words weren't directed at anyone. I agree with Elijah, you are blowing this out of proportion. Oil4 Talk 11:38, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - Ralnon, we're just offering our opinions, and you're shooting nearly all of them down. If you don't want to hear what we think, then I simply don't understand why you decided to make a Yew Grove thread about this.13:54, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
You call our points invalid only because you disagree with them. It seems you only made this thread to find pity, which is not going to be given to you. Chia doesn't need to reply if he feels threatened by you. You're acting like you know exactly what's going on in his mind when you say he treats you like some lowly noob. His comment wasn't directed toward you or anyone, and it shouldn't have even offended you in the first place. If you only want people to post how sorry they feel for you, just close this thread now. It won't happen.
15:24, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - Reading through this, Elijah seems to have this whole situation to the "t". Although Chia may have acted out of line, this thread has no direction, and you've not stated what you want to happen. All I see this as is a "Chia said this, and I think he's a bad person" thread. In my opinion, this is just a way to try and rile everyone up to get Chia's name tarnished. Also, as I see a ":P" symbol at the end, this was made for humour, not to offend, and you seem to be not assuming good faith. Sure, you may have taken Chia's comment as offensive/directed, but per RS:AGF, you, as a person "on wikis in general", you should know how some people can take things in haste rather than stride.
Oh, and one last thing, I suggest you not call other people's genuine opinions invalid, per Elijah's comments, as this would infringe on RS:UTP. If you're not willing to listen to our opinions, then request this thread closed. Lastly, a good way to contact him would perhaps be using the Clan Chat. His talk page would also do well here, too, because as I write this and look at his talk page, it was another user who brought this thread to his talk page, with you just saying "He should already know, since so many users are involved."
In summary, Elijah has the right idea, you've not directed this conversation to some end point, or stated what you want done, and you've put very little effort to try and resolve this with Chia, which says to me you just want pity. WWe deal justice where it is due, and I don't see anywhere where justice needs to be put. Please try more medians of communication if you ever have another conflict before coming to the YG. Chaos Monk Talk • Sign 17:57, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Comment - I still have yet to understand what you are after, Ralnon. We are giving you what you ask for, but you're still not satisfied. What is it you want? An explanation? We gave you that. An apology? Ask chia himself. Not the entire community. — Enigma 06:20, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
Request for closure - All this thread is really doing is causing controversy. Ralnon has not told us what (s?)he wants and, from what I can see, this thread is going nowhere. ~ Sentry Telos Talk 20:15, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
- Second - He hasn't even gone to Chiafriend's talk page and posted his concerns, he's just posted where other people have told chia about this situation. I'd close it myself but I'm not impartial. 20:18, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
Closed - While Chiafriend12 may have been able to have better word choice in his comment, the community disagrees that Chiafriend seriously damaged the wiki with his actions, this topic is trying to or will accomplish anything meaningful, and believes that it is best to assume good faith of him at this time. Therefore, it is best that we stop dwelling on this issue and move on to more productive activities. Butterman62 (talk) 00:49, November 7, 2009 (UTC)