Forum:Propose a new theme/Archive

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Forums: Yew Grove > Propose a new theme/Archive
Archive
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This thread was archived on 15 December 2010 by Liquidhelium.

Comment - This will likely mean a new logo and favicon, correct? ʞooɔ 21:01, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Good point, the favicon will not be a problem, however the logo will be. Should I add another section? Mark (talk) 21:03, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know. I think we should let one follow the other. ʞooɔ 21:05, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
I would wait till we're done here before we get a logo in the mix =/ --Aburnett(Talk) 23:17, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I think the first one is best, because that one is for the people with the most usual screen width. Maybe the monsters should not have a fade out(seen when zooming out, for ppl with most usual screen width) but just continue until their own stop. That will be better for widescreen users. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:34, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - *Says goodbye to iPhone editing* I think the 2nd looks best out of these 2 - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 22:52, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I suggest the default oasis. We've always been a wiki that knows what is important, being able to focus on our writing and reading. We do not need to go and create an ugly skin (I personally hate the colour brown) svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 23:11, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I've made a theme at [[w:c:evil1888]] that resembles monaco's sapphire (Wikia's theme "Sapphire" is different). Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 23:18, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I also suggest we stay with the default Oasis. First, dark backgrounds make all of our light images look terrible. Second, brown is dark. Third, if we remove the blue from the sides of the white center column, the content looks even more cramped; the blue adds depth that the white sides take away. Leftiness 19:42, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support option 1 - It is the only one that still has a remnant of Monaco. If we can't have the Monaco, then I support default oasis because it looks better than any of the alternatives that have been presented. --LiquidTalk 21:30, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

[[w:c:evil1888|My wiki]] resembles monaco's sapphire... Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 21:32, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support default oasis - Unless a really, really, really good theme is proposed I am against any theme change. I think that basic Oasis is much better than spamming colors and putting pretty images on the side. Quest point cape.pngTalk Newbie856 edit count Nomad guideMusic icon.png 01:10, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Say "Strong oppose" instead. WTF Support = I luv skin. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 01:14, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Default Oasis - None of the options presented look any better than Oasis. And Evil, your skin's colours are too sharp. 222 talk 05:31, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Mark/Ted, how did you keep the sidebar and shoutbox on the nl.runescape.wikia? I really miss them.   Swizz Talk   Events!   08:02, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

??? I don't see any shoutboxex. Mark (talk) 14:59, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Dark is horrid View-ability of content needs to be our number 1 priority. Easy to see/read. Dark backgrounds fail at that. Number 4 is the one that best serves us for this.--Degenret01 09:54, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Readability is fine on all skins created using the theme designer. Mark (talk) 14:00, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
White text on black background. What's easier to see? Lol LordDarkPhantom 14:18, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
"White text on black background. What's easier to see? Lol" What are you talking about? Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 20:53, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Support 3 - Looks far better than current. LordDarkPhantom 14:18, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Not only do the green buttons look out of place, but all of the forms have white boxes for information, as does the editing box. Adding a light image would have the same effect. It looks awful, and it draws even more attention to the flashy, brightly colored advertisements. Dark images on a light background are much better, and, personally, I think theme 3's blood-red-on-charcoal color scheme is childish and unprofessional. Leftiness 15:40, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose 1-2-3 - 1-2 has images on them. Distracting, and they slow the page. 3 is dark, as degen said, and might be hard to read depending on the brightness level of your monitor, which is not a problem in white background. I don't mind if we use 4 or the default. bad_fetustalk 16:37, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Images are below 100kB which barely slows down the site... Maybe about 100mS. Why would images be distracting? If people want to read the page they will, if people want to look at the images they will... Mark (talk) 18:29, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
Personally, I don't like them and I'd prefer to keep our default load times as low as possible. Aside from the colors of their armor, which in no way are exclusive to RuneScape, the characters look generic in that they could apply to virtually any RPG. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!I have 12 friends. 20:13, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
Not just the two characters, also the background on ie. nr. 3. Mark (talk) 14:59, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Fo ya'll h8rs. I made a Test article on my submision (#3), using resources from this Wiki while modifying the Monster table ScionCrush 19:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Red colour for all links = fail, how are you going to tell the difference between them and a red link? bad_fetustalk 21:12, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
Umad s0n? I fixed it, next time before making a comment like this you might wanna check, those are generic red links :::) ScionCrush 21:34, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
Look at the light pictures. Look at the ads. Even lighter pictures of places like Varrock would look bad, in my opinion. Leftiness 00:05, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
Your argument is rendered invalid. ScionCrush 01:36, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
All you did is put images on the page. Since my argument is not that it's impossible to put images on the page, my argument is not invalid. Really, I didn't just spout off nonsense; I went to your wiki and previewed a few images with the charcoal background, and, in my opinion, anything light and colorful looks bad against the charcoal background. With some red links tossed around and, as I said, out-of-place green buttons, white textboxes, and colorful ads, it's just bad. The orange links also look out-of-place. Leftiness 21:50, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
Personally, that one was my favourite. The only thing I didn't like was the logo, which can easily be changed. I see absolutely nothing wrong with either the images or the ads. Also, have you forgotten that it's possible to make redlinks a different colour? I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 04:00, November 8, 2010 (UTC) 
I don't really have any problem with red links being confused with non-existent links that are colored red; that's obvious when you read the status bar or the hover text. Personally, I think crimson on charcoal is unprofessional to begin with and that many of the colors clash - especially brighter ones. If it were possible to make textboxes charcoal and change the edit buttons to crimson, I think I could live with lighter images and ads, but I don't think Wikia gives us that kind of control, and I still wouldn't like what I consider to be the childish color scheme. Sorry, but there's really not a lot anybody can do to convince me otherwise; it's a personal perception sort of thing. Leftiness 18:39, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
It's absolutely possible to do both of those. Also, I have no problem with crimson on charcoal; it's my favourite colour scheme besides phosphor green on charcoal/black. Yes, I like charcoal backgrounds. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 06:25, November 9, 2010 (UTC) 

Oppose - Yea I'm just going to say that, EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE UGLY, let's stay like it is. (Evil get yourself some layout skills <.<)--Farming cape (t).png Ikin Talk 21:49, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Then instead of criticizing you might aswell do your own and see how ugly it is. ScionCrush 21:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
While it would be better to see constructive criticism, the "I'd like to see you do better" argument is invalid. You don't give a restaurant serving bad food a good review on the basis that you can't cook any better than the chef, do you? Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 13:24, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Support #6 - The Community Test Wiki never looked so good. I like the background, still white and nice buttons. I'd love that over the default Oasis theme by far. Sannse, what couldn't we do without you? :D Ryan PM 06:40, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Number 6 is really good except i don't think the buttons and the heading should be black, it's just not runescapy, brown might work though. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:29, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Support #8 - Nice but the logo is pretty bad imo. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:57, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • Support #6 - Suggestion, make the white background a very light beige-y brown kind of colour. Not too dark. Still very light. Chicken7 >talk 10:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Support #6 - Per Chicken, a slight modification to the background to a slightly more beige shade to somewhat blend with the map would be nice, but its still nice anyway. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 13:24, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Support #6 - This is perfect, as per above, just make the white general background slightly more tan/beige coloured... This reminds me ALOT of Oblivion :) RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 17:58, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - In response everyone who supported #6; while I love the way it looks, putting an image in the background is a very bad idea. While it won't really be a problem for us, since we'll only load the image once, it could be a huge problem to readers. Imagine you are a new runescapian that is trying to figure out a decent way of getting 20 smithing. Then, especially if you have a slow computer, the page will take much longer to load, thus repelling the reader. bad_fetustalk 18:47, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

That's complete rubbish. The background in #6 and also in #8 is less filesize than the thumbnail of the features image on the front page. We live in a broadband age. If youre computer is too slow to download a <100kb file ONCE and then cache it then they certainly aren't going to be playing Runescape. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 19:10, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
You don't have to play runescape on that computer, you can just wonder about something and google it and come across the wiki. So that point is invalid. Then, it being 100kb is irrelevant, we should never ever slow down the page. The time it adds may only be a single second, but that's no reason to slow down the page intentionally. bad_fetustalk 19:14, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, and it won't even be visible on several computers, which makes it utterly pointless. I was just looking at the theme you created, and the background was not visible at all, ecen though I use 1024x768, which is average. Why the hell are we slowing the page for something that can't even be seen? bad_fetustalk 19:17, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
An image in the background doesn't slow the content of the page from loading. If you have a slow connection it will download the text first and display that before the background so it will have no adverse effect. If you truely belive in not slowing down the wiki unnecessarily then you'd better take that image out your signature. The wiki has to process that svg file and then export it to a png file to the specifications you set on the fly. THAT slows the wiki down, not a simple background image. You don't know what you are talking about and thus your arguments are baseless. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 19:23, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
You do realise the scripts on this wiki take tenfold to load? As does almost every image on this wiki (which are far over 100kB)? 100kB doesn't slow down. Mark (talk) 19:26, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I'd support 6 or 8, and I also don't think that a background image would affect anyone, though Chess does have a point that background images don't show on lower resolutions; I was surprised when I first browsed the oasis'd wiki on my netbook. Leftiness 20:33, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - 5 looks like one of those crappy backgrounds they used to have on Bebo, 6/8 I quite like. Could someone make anything thats vaguely like Monaco? With he sidebar.   Swizz Talk   Events!   17:49, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

That's not possible with just the theme editor... The theme editor can change: color of the top/bottom bands, color of links, background and page colors (which also will change the gradient colors, etc), the background image (if chosen one) and the logo (if chosen). I'm an experienced web designer, but drew a blank on ideas at the moment (abet, I could make some cool effects with CSS, but it is limited to the theme designer). However, as a tip first of all, if using a background image, make a suitable background color, since that's what people will see when the page is still loading (before the background image is done loading). Hofmic Talk 00:28, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Support 8 and 9. --Iiii I I I 00:57, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Huge support for #8 - This is perfect, this is EXACLTY what the wiki has been looking for, not just for the last few weeks, but also the last few years. Would it be possible to make the background static on the user's screen, so the map is ALWAYS there, instead of scrolling down and the map blanking out? RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 18:48, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Not by default with the theme designer but you should be able to do it via css. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 18:51, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
Easily so. body{background-attachment:fixed;} should do it. Hofmic Talk 06:41, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
Making the background static would make this great. Is it possible to remove the activity thing on the right or at least make it smaller?   Swizz Talk   Events!   11:15, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
Amazing work Mercifull. --Aburnett(Talk) 01:49, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Huge support for #9 - Please dear god, its beautiful. -- User:H Fern 21:36, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose #9 - We want the theme to be as encompassing as possible. We also want to avoid unnecessary perceptions that we endorse anything. The fact that the theme includes so many Bandos signs without any other god signs is unacceptable, since it advances the notion that we support and endorse Bandos. --LiquidTalk 02:26, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Question - Since most/all of the proposed themes change the logo, do we assume that a support for the skin implies a support for the logo? Or, do we hold separate discussions on the logo? I should mention that I do not like the logo for Mercifull's theme, since it is just the RuneScape logo with no indication that we are a wiki. --LiquidTalk 02:29, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

I used the RuneScape logo to show how the theme would look with something with similar colours. I think the logo SHOULD be changed but I am not proposing the image on my design should be the final one chosen. It was merely meant as a placeholder --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 16:06, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
I changed the logo on my theme idea to something more original. I know we aren't proposing logos here but you were right about it looking odd with the plain rs logo so I changed it. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 22:27, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
Mmmm I think wikias cache is playing up. Here is my logo idea that is supposed to load into my theme idea. http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9274/rswikilogo.png --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 22:32, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Liquidhelium, the logo could be made significantly better. RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 12:51, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
Should we hold a discussion for every CSS element we plan to change? No, we can assume the logo would be changed as part of the new skin. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 14:33, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

I support numbers 6 and 9. - Both are very pretty, and if I'm forced to use the new wiki skin (I'm using the other once, since the oldest one no longer exists...), I want one that looks good :) (EDIT: No, I did not choose those two to be a smartass...) Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 20:01, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Support 6 and/or 8 - Per above. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 00:51, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

"closure|Past deadline, needs consensus" --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 01:11, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

We do not close active discussion because of some arbitrary deadline.--Degenret01 05:19, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
This wasn't meant for consensus, but discussion on the proposed skins. Albeit many, including myself, said support or oppose, this was not meant to be the focus of the thread, at least this is what I had known or expected. The next step would be to use another survey as done previously through another site (preferably http://kwiksurveys.com again, as was done with the previous logo discussion) with many more getting involved, however the method of communication is still being discussed as to achieve a broader audience. So... this may end on the back-burner for the time being. Ryan PM 15:17, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
You could just do a quick poll to get a first skin choice, then a more detailed vote to include a wider audience. At least that would get something up other than the basic blue for now -- Sannse<staff /> (help forum | blog) 18:45, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
If we do use kwiksurveys again, please let me know. I still have access to the unofficial wiki account, and it would be good to keep all our surveys in one place. --Aburnett(Talk) 20:25, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

What happens next? Talk has stagnated now. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 12:09, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'd say we close entries and open a kwiksurvery. Mark (talk) 12:19, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support per Mark --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 12:55, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - This ended days ago. It's time we start voting. The talk is already dying down as Mercifull mentioned, so we should move on with this immediately. It seems most people are in favour of kwiksurveys anyway, and it's an effective method without many cons. I also propose that it will be mentioned in the front page (wiki news) to try and attract the most editors to give their opinions. Hofmic Talk 23:09, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
Support --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 13:35, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Can we expect crap like this to occur with a new theme? Not only is this ad insulting to me, it's advertising competition to this game (Not to mention that I really hate the small font now used on the WikiaHeader) and may make people think that that is our new theme. Is sure did at first. Ryan PM 15:19, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Nope, a selected list of wiki's are getting that ad and Blizzard probably paid big-time for it. It's just for logged-out users though. Mark (talk) 15:41, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Support 8 - I think 8 is the nicest and, I can't remember where I've seen that background image, but if possible it should be made longer, so it doesn't fade to one colour so...quickly. Aik Hui 19:22, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - If this can't be done (like if the image isn't very long) then I think it should at least be 768 pixels (a standard screen length) so that the fade doesn't appear from the top of the page. This way, one could make it fixed (using their own user.css) and then would be able to read an entire page without any fading. Aik Hui 19:27, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Whilst I do agree with the comments about dark backgrounds being meh, not just because of the way images look but because it looks bad in general, I don't think a bright white like the current one is ideal either. I find it can be a little too bright at times, but more importantly it makes darker images harder to view. Some quickly put together examples:

Draynor manor.png
Draynor Sewers.png

Sinister key.png

Its not easy for your eyes to quickly pick up on the detail of the images, and while in some cases its open to interpretation, I've seen it as a problem for a number of inventory images, which dont change brightness in game. These same inventory images however are easy to view against the inventory in game.
BUT as I said, I wouldn't want to see a huge move away from the white background, so ideally an off-white or a light-but-not-white colour. --Henneyj 19:03, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Support #8 - As per above, light background. Looks nicer and still easy enough to read --Henneyj 19:03, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

There's so much bloody red tape on this wiki. People are soooooooooo adverse to change. Its worse than where I work.. AND I WORK FOR THE COUNCIL! lol --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 21:44, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Lol. Henneyj 02:18, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - It has occurred to me that discussion/voting was opened before all of the submissions had been made, which is kinda... you know... stupid. --Henneyj 03:00, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Support No.8 Gotta love those red's and blacks! I had no problem with the prevoius 'obsession' theme, so I'll have no prob's with this one.  Golden warpriest of Zamorak helm.png Wingcap Firemaking master cape.png 14:22, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal - We open a kwiksurvery with all options for 2 weeks. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 00:26, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Support Sentra - Should get a lot more traffic. Matt (t) 00:28, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - How does this look? ʞooɔ 00:44, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Good. Smile Matt (t) 00:45, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
Change the descriptions - You want to avoid things like "One of my favorites", which are certain to introduce bias and are completely irrelevant to the question being asked. I'd suggest having neutral descriptions of the content, like "Based on the XXX from XXX". --LiquidTalk 03:50, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
Number Skin Description
1 [[w:c:nl.runescape|View]] Based upon the colours of the previous runescape.com website.
2 View Based upon the colours of the previous runescape.com website.
3 View Based on a dark RuneScape cavern.
4 [[w:c:evil1888|View]] Based on Monaco Sapphire.
5 [[w:c:sentra246|View]] Based on the old logo with more browns and runes.
6 View Based on an antique map of RuneScape.
7 View Based on the God Wars Dungeon.
8 View Based on an antique map of RuneScape with a brown theme.
9 View Based on an old RuneScape homepage design.
Original (link here) (description here)

I've tried to come up with neutral descriptions of each of the skins. I've bolded and italicized the ones that I've changed. I removed the first person references and extraneous descriptions. --LiquidTalk 03:59, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Query - Is it even legal to use content taken directly from RuneScape as our background? kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 04:11, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Little late to be asking that don't you think? According to Mark (tedjuh), we can use any image we want. Ryan PM 04:14, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
Didn't our logo discussion get derailed when we had to pull 90% of nominations due to using runescape imagery which was deemed copyright violation? I don't see how this is any different kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 04:16, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
Legally I believe we need actual stated permission, not implied consent. What we had before was implied consent as Jagex knew we used their images yet took no action. I find using implied consent extremely unsettling, as it allows Jagex to someday throw a monkey wrench into the works, whereas it could be entirely avoided if we took the proper course of action now.--Degenret01 04:36, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
It seems to me, then, that unless considerable evidence is soon presented which suggests that using runescape imagery in our background is not illegal, then those entries should be stricken. Am I really the first person in 2 weeks to wonder about the legality of this? It seems like it would be fresh in everyone's mind given the results of the logo discussion. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 07:03, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
I stopped paying attention, as the other thread showed pretty clear the wiki in general DGAF if they are breaking the law, so that will not affect how they vote. A lot of them, not all.--Degenret01 08:44, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
I sent off an e-mail to Jagex inquiring on this. ʞooɔ 09:43, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Personally, I'm a fan of the darker themes, as I find them far more readable. For that, I'd pick #9. #3 looks quite cool as well, but I don't see it being as popular.

If I had to pick a lighter theme, I'd go with #7. #4 is way too bright. We want something at least a little bit darker, so that it's easier on the eyes.

As for what it is about the other themes that stopped me from picking them, I'd say that #6 and #8 look... well, boring, and not really RuneScape-y. #5's background is too busy and distracting for my tastes, and #1 and #2 look like they can't decide between being a light-coloured theme or a dark-coloured theme.

I don't describe what I dislike about these themes in order to be mean to those who submitted them; rather, I hope to explain what prevented me from choosing each one so that perhaps something similar, but "fixed" in the area that I disagreed with, could be something I'd support. For now, my top picks are #9 and #7.

I hope that all of these themes will be located somewhere on the wiki, to make it easier for users to switch between them. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 05:06, November 20, 2010 (UTC) 

cOMMENT This is what annoys me about this wiki sometimes... The discussion goes slow for days and the whole process stalls then as soon as someone mentions copyright issues there is a mass of activity of people boohooing about copyrights and legal rubbish.

It's ok to use the images under fair use, we do NOT need stated permission for every simgle image on every single page, that's just ridiculous.

If Jagex has a problem with the images or any content on this wiki they can contact Wikia (as they have done before). Lets just stop all this nonsense now and get on with it. Wikia are the ones who are the owners of the wiki not us and they say its ok, they are the only people who have had direct contact with Jagex and there have not been any issues with images. Other fan-sites use Runescape and Runescape related images both from the website and from in-game and not had any issues. Red tape red tape.

I also have some issues with the way the kwiksurveys poll has been created. The options are numbered 1-9 but the descriptions and links are not actually by the radio buttons. These should be by the descritions and previews to prevent people accidentally voting for an incorrect option. Screenshots should also have been produced for each theme design so people could make an infomed decision with them all in the same layout. For example some people on computers with low resultion do not see background images so might vote for one they in reality would not want or vice/versa.

You should also have given people the change to rank the options or to vote on their top three. You are going to find it difficult to analyse when people can only choose one out of 9. This is poor quality research. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 21:15, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Under the fair use laws that have been quoted on several threads, it seems that using a picture on an article can easily be argued as educational, therefore allowed. Using a Jagex picture for our background/theme is 100% decorative and meets zero criteria for allowance per the hundreds of thousands of words posted on these threads. Now, if you have a problem with the fact some of us WANT TO FOLLOW THE LAW, then you sir have the problem. --Degenret01 21:49, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
I agree its annoying when the process is stalled for someone bringing up legal issues, because there should have been no progress until the legal issues were addressed and resolved. You think we can just ignore it because some other sites steal (yes, steal) RuneScape images to use as their logo or background? Background and logos are not fair use. Fair use only applies when it is for educational or reviewing purposes. Our logo is not educational, it is how we represent ourselves. By stealing imagery directly from RuneScape which Jagex uses to represent themselves, and using it to represent ourselves, we are breaking copyright law unless we get permission for Jagex. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 22:20, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
Well if wikia staff say its ok, then I think it's ok. They are not only the only ones in direct contact with Jagex but they also run THOUSANDS of wikis which use images in their backgrounds. There is no issue here. The people who are quoting fair use and legalese on these discussions are NOT lawyers, and neither are you. We all know that Jagex never reply to queries such as this so we might as well just keep everything as it is and have a generic theme which looks crap. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 22:26, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
Where does wikia say its ok? And generic themes don't need to look like crap. Likewise we don't need to use runescape images in order to look good. TO be honest legal issues aside I would prefer we not use runescape images anyways, since it creates a unique identity for ourselves. I think using runescape images is lazy and unimaginative. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 22:32, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
So what you are really saying is that we have two options: This one http://evil1888.wikia.com/wiki/Evil1888_Wiki or keep as we are. What a shame. Such awful designs ruining such a great content wiki. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 22:56, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, as I'm fairly certain that's the only possible theme which can be made without using RuneScape imagery. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 07:35, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
You are "fairly certain"... someone had better tell the people who run the Kirby wiki, the Fallout Wiki, Fable Wiki, and the GTA wiki... I could go on... who all use images from the game they are about in their logo, background or both. Wikia have chosen those as FEATURED wikis, I chose these because they are advertised on the page. I dont want to make up statistics but pretty much all the wikis about games or movies use images in the background and logo. If there really was a serious legal issue over this then wikia would have been busted by now. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 19:17, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
Pressed F5, heres 3 more. Super power wiki, Glee wiki and Medal of Honour wiki --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 19:21, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
F5, 3 more. http://harrypotter.wikia.com/ http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page http://reddead.wikia.com --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 19:24, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
The amount of people who do this isn't even close to relevant. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 21:07, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
Per Psycho. Stop listing the other wikis, it does not matter if 900 million wikis use this, WE need to determine the legality FOR US. The other wikis do not matter. At all. Its a matter of simply doing the right thing, not whether it will be enforced or not.--Degenret01 21:29, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
Still no reply from Jagex. ʞooɔ 21:40, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
And you wont get one. Lets get real. YOU wont ever be able to contact a Jagex lawyer to determine the legality. The amount of other wikia hosted wikis that do this IS a factor because it proves that there really isnt an issue over it. I say we use Jagex images and see how we go. Wikia staff ARE in contact with Jagex and if Jagex do not like it (we are a silver fansite) then they know who to contact to sort it out. I know you guys are trying to act all big and clever about this but all you are really doing is laying down the red tape all over the wiki stiffling change and imagination. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 23:15, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Jagex says the following about fansites: 1. You must visibly acknowledge that the images are the property of Jagex Ltd, and that Jagex and RuneScape are registered trademarks of Jagex Limited, and you must provide a link to the official http://www.RuneScape.com website.

This can be solved with a footer copyright explaining that the background image and logo contain potions copyright to Jagex Ltd.

2. The images or our trademarks must NOT under any circumstances be used on or in conjunction with any website which encourages or helps users infringe our Terms and Conditions or breach the Rules of RuneScape. Using them on a scamming, hacking, password stealing, or cheating website is NOT allowed.

We do not encourage wiki users to break the rules, infact it is frown upon here. This is not a problem.

3. You must not use these images or our trademarks in a deliberately deceptive way. Your website must not portray itself as an official RuneScape website. Allowing you to use these images does not mean we endorse your website.

This is no issue, the header is clear that it is a wikia hosted wiki fansite and the copyright should reflect this also.

4. We may withdraw your permission to use these images at any time if we feel you are misusing them.

If Jagex do not want the images to be used they can contact their Wikia representative as they have done in the past (Jagex portal images)

There is nothing on the Fansites information on the Runescape site which says you cannot use the images in backgrounds or logos. This is why ALL the other fansites do it. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 23:21, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

That's not true. I've been in contact with Jagex regarding the legality of multiple things on the wiki. ʞooɔ 23:32, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
Wrong answer Merciful. I would LOVE IMAGINATIVE change. I would LOVE to see someone CREATE art background for us to use. So don't talk crap about me . Get your facts right before you attack me.--Degenret01 00:08, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
I'm with Degen on this one, as attempting to determine if using images taken from RS is legal in no way inhibits creativity. In fact it promotes it, as people now need to put more effort and thought into their skins than simply copying an RS background and pasting it into photoshop. I don't see why you think having images taken from RS is necessary for a successful skin kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 00:11, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
Except it's NOT just a Runescape screenshot pasted into photoshop! The background image is based off an antique map wallpaper Jaxex made in 2006. Someone had to have the imagination to think of using this and then implement it. Notice how the image is at an angle, it had to be edited to fit better. Then the colours had to be normalised and modified, then it had to be cropped and faded so that it fit the wiki fixed width format. The logo took me almost 2 hours in Pixlr (I don't have photoshop) whhere I had to split the runes apart, clear out the old text, create new letters and match the runes back together. This also took imagination. You have also failed to counter my aregument that using these images on the wiki for this reason would still be ok. It is most definitely NOT a case of taking raw images from Runescape and uploading them to the wiki. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 09:23, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Let it move along when scrolling down please, like at [[w:c:fable|the fable wiki]], but without the half transparent text background, because that will be ruined by some things like tables or the category box at the bottom of the page, which looks messy. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:03, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Support 3 - Number 1 I like as well, but not as much. Achievements Coelacanth0794 Talk Contribs 21:09, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Reply from Jagex - Hi Cook, As long as you acknowledge Jagex as the owners of any copyrighted material on the site, then using such images should be fine. :)

Hohbein

So, what does this mean for us? Would simply adding something to the footer on the Main Page to the effect of "certain images on the RuneScape wiki are copyright by Jagex Ltd." suffice? If we can decide how to deal with that, I'd like to ge the survey back up. ʞooɔ 18:33, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

*Sigh*. Yet nobody would listen. Anyways, we could always use a custom footer so this discussion won't happen again. Ever. Mark (talk) 19:04, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
100% support, but is that feature comparable with the new skin? I cant see it in use for any of the examples. Regardless, let's get something going so that we can finally move past this foolishness. --Aburnett(Talk) 20:43, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
Finally something concrete. An answer from Jagex staff not just what someone "thinks" is legal. Request custom footer. Example below --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 20:58, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
The RuneScape Wiki is Hosted by Wikia and is in no way affiliated with Jagex Ltd
RuneScape ® is a trademark of Jagex Ltd © 1999-2010 Andrew Gower 
Wiki theme created by xxxxxxx using ThemeDesigner, background image and logo contain portions Copyright Jagex Ltd
How about this:
 The RuneScape Wiki is hosted by Wikia Inc and is in no way affiliated with Jagex Ltd
 RuneScape® is a trademark of Jagex Ltd ©1999-2010 Andrew Gower 
 The Wiki's theme, background image and logo contain portions are copyright Jagex Ltd

--中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 21:23, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Lol, I have to point out that this is not technically legal permission. Or it would not say "should be fine". Good reading.--Degenret01 21:30, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
I think we should not include the designer's name in the copyright. ʞooɔ 21:33, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
Also, I'm going to reopen that survey soon unless someone objects. I think this is what we were looking for in terms of allowance from Jagex. Yes, it's not legal permission, but it's as close as we're going to get and I severely doubt that Jagex would go back on this. ʞooɔ 21:35, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
I say that Hohbien's reply is enough to protect us from any potential legal troubles from Jagex, as we can just say Hohbien gave us the clear. As for the footnote, it should not contain the designer's name, and only indicate that certain design elements of the background are images copyrighted by jagex. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 02:32, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I'd just like to point out that CustomFooter only works with Monaco and no other skin. Ryan PM 22:05, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Can this be modified by an sysop/b'crat? MediaWiki:Oasis-spotlights-footer-title see what I have done here and use a bit of css to shrink the font? --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 08:26, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
Some useful links to the code I used http://mercifull.wikia.com/MediaWiki:Oasis-spotlights-footer-title and http://mercifull.wikia.com/Template:Footer --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 08:48, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
Just checked, custom footer will not be made compatible with the New Look. Mark (talk) 21:16, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
I really like Mercifull's one, it should be made the new one.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 1337rng3r (talk) on 18:34, 2 December 2010.

Survey Results

The survey is in here. #8, with 27% of the vote, had nearly twice as much as any others. There are 4 other results that have between 10 and 15 percent of the vote. Surprising to me is that only 11% of the voters wanted to keep the current theme. I think what we should do is to try to get consensus on number 8, as there are too many other choices to make choosing between all of the higher ones feasible. What do you think? ʞooɔ 03:25, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I took a look, though I have no idea why it's a .ods file or what a .ods file even means. Excel doesn't seem to like it very much, though I can still view it. Anyways, I think that it may help if we grouped the results by idea instead of by number. This is to offset the single-choice nature of the survey. It is likely that people will pick an option in a similar category if their first choice was eliminated.

Old RuneScape webpage (1, 2, and 9): 33%
Antique Map (6 and 8): 32%
Default colors (4 and 10): 13%
RuneScape theme dark (3): 13%
RuneScape theme light (7): 12%
Runes (5): 2%

If we look at it like this, I think it's probably between a variant of the old RuneScape webpage and the antique map. That's my take on the results. --LiquidTalk 03:33, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

.xls files are not allowed on the wiki. ʞooɔ 03:39, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
No, people voted for the one they like the most if they like 1 that doesn't mean at all that they like 9, especially since they are nothing alike. This is just taking the results and saying hmm these are the same subject, everyone who likes this also will like this, that's not right. Just get consensus on #8 since people liked that, not they likes 1 so they must then like 2 and 9. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 03:42, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
You can't group those things together, it's just not statistically valid. 8 is the clear winner, despire someone (not mentioning names but we all know who) voted for number three 219 times in a row. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 13:41, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
Also 1,2+9=28.45%. 8=28.53 so it beats it alone, when you add the figures from 6 it comes to 33.12%. Don't know how you worked out your percentages. If I add all your figures it comes to 105%. I think you need a new calculator. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 13:51, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
Option Frequency Percent Valid Percent
I would like to keep the current theme 136 10.77 10.78
1 126 9.98 9.98
2 31 2.45 2.46
3 168 13.30 13.31
4 29 2.30 2.30
5 19 1.50 1.51
6 58 4.59 4.60
7 133 10.53 10.54
8 360 28.50 28.53
9 202 15.99 16.01
Sub-Total 1262 99.92 100.0
System missing 1 .08
Grand-total 1263 100.0

--Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 13:55, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Request - Can someone please convert the file to something else? Excel 2003 rejects to open it, and it's not really helpful to the discussion when people can't even check it. bad_fetustalk 18:05, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

http://www.kwiksurveys.com/results-export.php?survey_ID=HMMMHO_3d55b225&pm=21rdx export it to whatever you like :) --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 19:18, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
Those results are riddled with duplicate votes. Use the data I've cleaned up, available here. (It's an .xls) --Aburnett(Talk) 22:30, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
For anyone interested, here's a screen of the data. --Aburnett(Talk) 22:35, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Let's try to get consensus on #8. If that fails, we can go from there. --Aburnett(Talk) 22:30, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Aburn. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 18:17, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Results are clear. --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 22:29, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Aww. I hated #8. Oh well.. bad_fetustalk 14:13, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Support - For the record, ODS is open document spreadsheet, and is used by OpenOffice.org, a free alternative to MS Office, and can be opened by Google Docs as well. Too bad, I was rooting for you, #9. But, hey, #8 looks great. I think this is enough to count as consensus, unless you want another poll with just choices between #8 and the default theme. That would give a more accurate consensus. After all, #8 was the clear winner of this, now the only question is to use it or the default theme (I'm all for it, though, and want to see it as soon as possible). That could take some time though... Hofmic Talk 20:09, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

Do we REALLY need yet another poll/vote etc on #8 or default theme? Less than 11% wanted to keep the current theme. There is far too much red tape here. Cmon admins be bold --Gold ore.png Mercifull UK serv.svg (Talk) 22:25, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
"But, hey, #8 looks great. I think this is enough to count as consensus". Apparently he doesn't think we need it. --Aburnett(Talk) 22:28, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry to clarify, I think the results of this survey are enough to count for consensus, but that's just me, and those who don't think so, an alternative proposal would be another poll between just to change or not to change to number 8 (that is the question...). Hofmic Talk 06:19, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

Support - RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 22:42, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Support - #8 = best one yet, let's do it already ~kytti khat 18:08, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - The vote's over and number 8 won, so why are we still debating stuff? When are we getting the new skin? --Iiii I I I 23:05, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Notice of intent - The survey and this discussion show clear consensus for the change. Unless there is sudden opposition, the skin will be changed after the first of the year. --Aburnett(Talk) 23:50, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

:D --Iiii I I I 00:21, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Yay, new theme! Abet, why do we have to wait till January? I suppose it makes it more signficent, though a christmas present wouldn't hurt. ^.^ I propose that the background image is made to be fixed. This can be done with the following CSS code in the MediaWiki:Wikia.css file.

body{
  background-attachment: fixed;
}

Hofmic Talk 07:17, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

No changes at this point, we are going with the theme as-is. Changes can be proposed after it is implemented. --Aburnett(Talk) 23:46, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I really, really, really, really like #8. That is all. --Imdill3 07:23, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - What will these new theme change in terms of functionality? The main thing I can think of is that we will have to make sure all of our images have transparency and not whitespace, and we need to make sure that our AA transparency doesn't leave halos. ʞooɔ 10:17, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

We will also have to look over all our templates to make sure they look good with the new colors. I think the images will be the biggest part, however. --Aburnett(Talk) 16:29, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
The amount of transparent images on Runescape Wiki is amazing, most (maybe 95%?) should be perfectly fine. (100% of template images will be fine). Imdill3 00:22, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
It's not perfectly fine, though. There are plenty of images (I'm sure 5% is quite high) that will need to have changes made. I don't know if we will want to hold off on rolling out the new theme, but we need to make sure everything's in order. ʞooɔ 04:00, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Was the new theme supposed to appear for a few minutes this morning? 222 talk 10:48, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that was just a quick test. --Aburnett(Talk) 18:59, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - When you tested the new layout the drop down lists at the top of the page i.e. Gielinor; Guides; Information Bank and Community were not particularly clear when selected Construction.png Storm Roller talk 07:36, December 28, 2010 (UTC)