Forum:Preventing charm log vandalism/Implementation

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Forums: Yew Grove > Preventing charm log vandalism/Implementation
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This thread was archived on 3 October 2010 by Liquidhelium.

In Forum:Preventing charm log vandalism, a few proposals were passed, but never implemented, due to practical difficulties. The ideas that were passed included separating charm logs into two pages, a submissions page where users would type their data into a simple script/interface similar to how GEMW prices are now updated, and a charm log page that holds the actual data. There was consensus to protect the charm log data page to prevent vandalism. TLULbot would check the entries before actually updating them into the submissions page. Entries are approved if they do not change the charm drop percentages by a certain threshold margin.

However, practical issues compounded the implementation. The biggest issue was that bots would need to pass RfA's to edit fully protected pages. But, a new and better solution has been found. Cook, TLUL, and I decided on an implementation method. We can make a separate namespace for Charm logs, called Charm: (in the same fashion as the Exchange namespace). This namespace would be protected so that only users in the groups "bot", "sysop", "rollback", and the new usergroup being discussed here (should it pass) can edit the actual charm log data. The "bot" group should be obvious, as bots are going to be the ones updating the charm logs. Sysop, rollback, and the maintenance group should be able to edit the pages due to the fact that bots are not going to catch every single piece of vandalism, because they just look for changes in the charm percentages. Please note that protecting the charm log data page has already reached consensus on the previous forum, so that does not need to be debated.

Wikia has agreed to this, should this thread pass. Mark has tentatively approved the idea on my talk page. Uberfuzzy has approved both the new namespace and protecting it for certain usergroups on the IRC, so we know that this can be implemented should it pass.

The specifics that deal with coding will be left to TLUL, who code the bot as he wishes as long as it falls within the specifications of the previous thread and this thread. He has also indicated that he will give the code to another bot operator, most likely Amaurice, to create a redundancy in the system that guards against bot failure.

So, for those who may be wondering about the benefits of this proposal, I have listed several below:

  • Having a submissions page where users only add their kills and charms makes updating the page much easier. This will reduce the number of accidental mistakes by quite a lot.
  • Because TLULbot must approve all edits before actually adding them to the charm data page, this will reduce incidences where vandals insert completely nonsensical data.
  • A new namespace will be easier to implement than several bot RfA's and several page protections, since all the protections can be done on one page.
  • Because the charm log data page is protected save for the users who actually want to revert vandalism/maintain the wiki, cases of direct vandalism will be completely eliminated (assuming no sysop goes rogue or something like that).

Please discuss. --LiquidTalk 00:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)


Support - As nominator. --LiquidTalk 00:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support - Per nom. Matt (t) 00:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - This is more of a formality ain't it. 222 talk 00:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is. There was consensus to do everything that I'm mentioning, except just not in this specific manner. This is to have a consensus to point to should anyone hate the idea in five months. --LiquidTalk 00:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per nom. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 02:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC) 

Support - Makes sense. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 02:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Question - If the Charm namespace is protect will be protected to certain usergroups, how do you propose users not in those usergroups will be able to update the charm logs? Matt (t) 05:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

The charm log submissions would be open to all users. ʞooɔ 08:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
And what namespace would that be in? Matt (t) 08:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
Same place they are now - mainspace, as a subpage. Although, it would be possible to create (another) new namespace, but I don't see the need. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 02:54, September 30, 2010 (UTC) 
Okay. Matt (t) 03:48, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Because I'm mentioned in the thread. ʞooɔ 08:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Nice work. ajr 18:13, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I can dig it! Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 18:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Great. --Aburnett(Talk) 18:19, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose new namespace - Wikia caps us at three custom namespaces (this new namespace being the third and final), and charm logs are not significant enough to deserve that. Note that I do not necessarily oppose the other parts of the proposal, I will comment on those later. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 18:44, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

I got a question for ya; what are we saving this last namespace for? Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 18:46, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
I've been considering a proposal to create a namespace for calculator/statistical related data, as there is no other namespace that serves this purpose well enough. However, we don't know what's going to happen in the future that may require a namespace. If we spent all three of our custom namespaces before the Grand Exchange came out, that would leave us having to delete one (we can't live without the Exchangespace). Honestly, I don't think Charm Logs are even a slightly worthy reason to create a namespace. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 18:52, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
I thought I'd just clear something up: there is no namespace cap. If you saw what Mark wrote on Liquid's page, he says that they will allow more than three custom namespaces, as we are one of the most active wikis. ʞooɔ 19:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
Support - Win. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 19:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
I have a personal MediaWiki installation with 18 custom namespaces in it XD I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 02:54, September 30, 2010 (UTC) 
This wiki has 12, and this proposal would make 14. ajr 02:58, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
That's 18 custom namespaces, not total namespaces. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 01:42, October 2, 2010 (UTC) 

Support - I don't see any downside to this, but there is a major upside. Why not? --Callofduty4 19:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - It needs to be done and this is a good way to do it. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 03:58, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per above. HaloTalk 04:01, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Notice of intent - I am going to close this on October 3 unless anyone raises a reasonable objection. I want this to be over with before Wikia's Special:Contact inbox gets flooded with messages dealing with Oasis, which comes out on the 6th. Closing it on the fourth is 6 days, which is almost a week, and close enough to the one-week limit set in RS:SNOW. Furthermore, this thread is more of a formality, since the proposal has already been approved. This is just to get a consensus for this particular method. If anyone has any objections, please raise them here before the fourth. --LiquidTalk 23:24, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Adding to idea - We should have a "requests for charm log" or something. It's not fair that only admins and all can only edit it. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 23:39, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

That would be the submissions page, where anyone may add their kills. The actual data itself is stored on a page where rollbackers, sysops, custodians, and bots can edit. --LiquidTalk 23:41, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Great idea. Suppa chuppa Talk 23:43, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - I will ask Uberfuzzy to create a new namespace called Charm and protected for bot, sysop, rollback, and custodian. --LiquidTalk 18:45, October 3, 2010 (UTC)