Forum:Preserving Ties with Jagex in the Light of Recent Events
So, a lot of events happened recently. Since our transition from FANDOM, preserving good relations with Jagex has been one of RuneScape's Wiki for a variety of reasons. It is no secret that Jagex and the users of the game RuneScape & Oldschool RuneScape think highly of us as we provide valuable knowledge to Jagex's clients. In the light of a variety of recent events, both political and related to the RuneScape financial ecosystem/community, I hereby propose three new rules to preserve the image the RuneScape Wiki and its community (often denominated as "Wikians" or editors). The current set of rules is summed RS:DBAD and the application of Jagex's Term of Service. The following set of rules is being recommended for appliance and the Discord Server and talk spaces relative to the RuneScape Wiki.
I. Blanket ban on politics
In the light of recent events, people have started to take some political stances that can be detrimental to some ethnicities. Since censoring a specific topic would be a very delicate subject and morally wrong from the common citizen point of view, I hereby propose a blanket ban on politics in order to obfuscate any potential criticism regarding the RuneScape Wiki that could damage our image and to a certain extent, Jagex's. An exception should probably be made for memes per consensus of former Yew Grove threads.
II. Secrecy of Datamining
RuneScape data miners (former denominations: "mathemagicians", "hackers", "Update Squid" and "Erudite") are mainly part of the RuneScape Wiki community in some part or others. Recently, some information has datamined which are known to be detrimental to Jagex and its shareholder as a business (in public perception). Being a prime exhibit myself, it is not uncommon to data mine vital core game mechanic information. Since the information (whom is usually without or with partial context) may damage the public perception of Jagex intellectual properties (RuneScape in the present case). I think the release of "damaging" information by RuneScape wiki member should be a punishable offence, the administrators judging on a per-case basis.
III. The Respect of Ethnicities and Legal Entity
The RuneScape Wiki has hosted many events in the past and present, both on-site and in-game. A certain event a few years ago was arguably offensive and was targeted at a specific ethnic group and a corporate entity. I think the RuneScape Wiki should respect different races and ethnic groups in order to preserve the image of the RuneScape Wiki. The only exception being about fictional races and ethnicities present with the RuneScape universe and intellectual propriety. The same should be applied to corporate entity as they are technically a person in most countries and that the wiki should not be used to push either political agenda or defame others. The same should be applied to the workers of said corporation.
I hope this generate civilized discussion about the important matters of the current situation and not turn to tribalism. Remember that we are all part of a society and that we must obey the set of laws/rules lay before us by those hierarchically superior to us. I this the core principle of all society (whatever physically real or cybernetic). Remember, we (as a collective) are watching closely the situation. Manpaint55 (talk) 22:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
- Uh - Per Cook. -- SpineTalk 22:15, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Comment - Can you actually be specific at least once in this thread?22:18, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Comment - Actual what Badassiel 22:53, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Commnet - This entire essay is rather vague, with alluded-to incidents used as "evidence". Care to give some actual examples like these supposed racist political stances? This all sounds like a bunch of scaremongering and overreaction and the only explanation I can make of this is ye think the shit happening between Activision Blizzard and China will somehow affect Jagex as well.
Our relationship with Jagex is greater than ever. We've got many benefits, such as ingame integration and difficult-to-obtain information like accurate drop rates (thanks fer this Shauny, we greatly appreciate it). We trust the userbase to act appropriately and intervene when things go too far or become offensive and if somebody's being racist, we deal with it, so I fail to see how blanket bans would help here. Placing restrictions for unspecified reasons will only cause further trouble and ironically lead to accusations of censorship Ciphrius Kane (talk) 23:33, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Oppose - " Blanket ban on politics" That ain't ever gonna happen.23:34, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
- Expansion - I) A blanket ban on politics is basically impossible with a server at the size it is. Oh and it's total censorship as well. II) We already have stuff in place for this. III) So, I can't bash Konami for being a shitty company? I can't bash Fanshit? Once more, this falls under censorship. 00:26, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Clarification Here's a summary for those who does not comprehend the above text: I. Impose a blanket ban on politics as it can quickly become a shitshow. Also, our society is more divided as ever, not a good thing.
II. Make what is datamined from cache a secret (depending on what is data mined) as player usually jump to conclusion without fully understanding the context.
III. Oppose any discrimination regarding ethics group and corporations. The wiki did some morally questionable things in the past – whatever it was in the context of a "joke" or not. The wiki is also not a place to push political agendas.
Comment - These aren't the worst ideas, but it'd be nice to know what sparked them.
- AFAIK political stuff hasn't been an issue at all recently. A blanket ban is a little much for something that can often be resolved through other means. Br(imhaven)exit.
- Partial-agree on this one. Defining what is and isn't "damaging" seems a little nebulous, but you could also chalk it up to UCS. It's no secret that gamedev is full of jank and hackfixes (especially with MMOs), so "damaging" would really just have to be weird stuff like finding slurs in the code or w/e.
- I'm out of the loop on this one re "a certain event a few years ago". While I don't see this rule being bad per se, it'd be nice to have some context for it.
The overall vibe I'm getting is that you're coming up with solutions to problems that don't exist yet, and possibly never will. 2 is still a good idea but I'm not sure how necessary it really is.
Oppose I and II - I. RS:DBAD covers any discussions that might get out of hand and devolve into a state of no longer being civil and useful, otherwise we're all adults and can handle political conversation I'd think.
II. Unless Jagex themselves stipulate this in any contracts, there is no need to be so timid. If they are worried about us as a platform with tools being able to reveal sensitive data they'll either change the rules for us so that can't happen, or alter their protocol themselves to the same effect.
III. I'm confused, you might need to clarify what past and present events/jokes/whatever preyed on ethnicity because I'm pretty lost and this feels as if it falls under current rules as is but I somewhat agree with the basic premise?00:34, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Oppose all - You're just paranoid, Manpaint. All of those expectations now that Shauny's leaving Jagex are irrelevant. Your wording is horrifically off (and implying that censorship is fine), as well, and it just makes me think that you really don't know how the wiki works anymore. Reminder that there are other things beyond RS for most Discord users; censorship is not a good thing, and it never will be a good thing! Why you want this is beyond me; even your "I think we should talk about RS" thing is impossibly bad logic.
Oppose all - II. Per MitcheII.
I & III. per Zanik:
|iN008talk 06:02, 10 October 2019 (UTC)|
Oppose all this just feels liek complete censorship to me, reddit has taken this stance recently and it's caused a massive rift between mods on there and the average user. do we really want that? Rhysy4056 (talk) 06:47, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Dafuq - First of all just be specific, this kind of vague mentioning of "damaging" and "offensive" stuff just reads like a conspiracy theory and thus removes any kind of credibility form the post in my opinion. Also oppose all. Srylius (talk) 08:00, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Oppose all -
- 1. As mentioned multiple times before we have RS:DBAD and there's also RuneScape:User treatment policy and RuneScape:Profanity to keep things from getting out of hand, and I can't remember a political discussion that got really out of hand. We've had RS related discussions that started a lot more *cough* H.A.M. *cough*. Furthermore by outright banning political discussion one is simply implying that the users of the discord aren't capable of adult discussion, plus we have admins for a reason. I am also just generally against censorship.
- 2. It's not like we advertise that we have all this info from the cache, and we don't really tell people "download the cache here". Plus it's the cache, anyone who has the game can access it. We do get special information from Jagex, but few people get to see the raw info, as far as I'm aware, all of those have signed NDAs and none of it has been leaked so far. As you're very vague about what specifically you're referring too I'm not sure what else to say on the subject.
- 3. Again I'm not entirely sure what instances you are referring too, but as far as I'm aware we don't have a problem with racism etc? Again see the links mentioned above, and the fact that we have admins for a reason.
- 17:37, 10 October 2019 (UTC)