Forum:Portal pages part 2

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Forums: Yew Grove > Portal pages part 2
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This thread was archived on 2 April 2011 by Liquidhelium.

All right, now that Forum:Portal pages has passed and the namespace is active, we have some questions to resolve.

  • Do we want a consistent format for Portals? What should this consistent format be? Some current examples would be the community portal and the main page.
  • What portals should we have? Highly generic like Skills, Activities, Quests, more specific like Dungeoneering, Herblore Habitat, Void Quest Series, highly specific like Potions, Slayer Masters, Void Knight equipment?
    • Do we allow non-content portals, like Images or Maintenance? Do we move the community portal to the new namespace?
  • How do we popularise them? e.g. do we add a link to the Dungeoneering nav templates to the Dungeoneering portal, just to Dungeoneering, or what? etc

I don't have any proposals yet, just throwing out some questions and ideas for now (I don't necessarily think they're good ideas, just food for thought), so yeah, discuss. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 19:40, January 27, 2011 (UTC)


Strong oppose - Discussion is for noobs. --LiquidTalk 19:43, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Mainpage only - It would look a bit odd on the pages with a lot of text, although one on the page for Dungeoneering wouldn't be a bad idea - there's so much stuff to go through... Real Crazy 19:48, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Didn't realise what was being done...anyway, generic ones sound better. Quests, Skills, Items, NPCs, maybe a couple for wiki business. Real Crazy 19:50, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion - (editconflict) I suggest we use dropdowns, but then dropdowns that don't use JavaScript, to make it available for everyone. I have an example available [[w:c:joeytje50:Test#Dropdown without JS|here]]. I'd like to hear comments about why/why not. If you can/want to make improvements you can just ask me for admin tools on my wiki if you need them. I'll add a link to the explaination how it works later, as soon as i wrote it. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 19:51, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Those are great! User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 17:52, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Replies -

  • I think we want to have a different portal page for each subject, with a short, inviting text on them. It should have a lot of links, and easy access to the pages it is about. Navigation bars would be a good solution, or the dropdowns i suggested above.
  • I think this list says what I think what would be good to have portal pages about. I'd also like a "community" portal, like the current community portal, but then a bit compacter.
    • I would support that.
  • I think that adding something at the bottom of pages like "For more information about [subject] you should go to the [[Portal:[subject]|[subject] portal]]."

That is what I think would be best. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 20:09, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - The fixed width will not work with a namespace of this nature. I'm going to ask Wikia to remove it for the Portalspace. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 20:42, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean? If we resize it to the full width of the content part (±1000 px) it is still fixed, but still works. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 20:55, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
Apparently, the only way to remove the rail is to change the namespace from content to non-content, so I've taken the liberty to contact wikia and request this. The only real advantage of having the portalspace as a content namespace is that it appears when you push the random page button, but that advantage is trumped by the disadvantage of the rail. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 22:01, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
As that is not really a big advantage actually(we will have about 50 portal pages, in 58,497 articles, so the chance to land on a portal page would be 0.1%) so that's not worth the HUGE advert. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 23:49, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I'm busy for the next few days, but after that I'll sit down and design a example page and we'll see how people like it. Or someone else can. Ajraddatz 00:11, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comment + Support - Portals are fantastic for navigation and contenting pages. They can be linked to with [[Mediawiki:Wiki-navigation]] too, which makes sense since they are subnavigation pages. If you do make portal pages you must specify to Wikia that it is a non-content namespace and that it requires utilisation of the full width of the page. Dragon 2h sword old.pngCallofduty4 Talk 00:17, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Skills can probably have their own portals to themselves (and a main Skills portal to link to the other portals), but things such as minigames aren't diverse enough to need their own portal page. Non-content portals are still useful and it doesn't hurt to use them. Link portals in [[Mediawiki:Wiki-navigation]], and linking them in navboxes might also be a good idea. Dragon 2h sword old.pngCallofduty4 Talk 00:28, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Trying out a design [[Portal:Example2|here]]. --Iiii I I I 02:28, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

That page r borkd Ajraddatz 02:30, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
its not finished nub --Iiii I I I 02:37, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
I fixed it Heart --Aburnett(Talk) 20:16, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I'm not sure the use of sliders is the way to go, because they require the images you use be a certain size to begin with, or else they don't work. Also, once we have enough portals, I think we should replace the contents section of the main page with portal links. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 17:18, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think image sizes will be that much of a problem, since you can easily crop and/or resize them to fit 673x410px. --Iiii I I I 20:06, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
Though at what cost (in regards to quality)? I tried this earlier today, and the image came out a little fuzzy. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 22:30, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
All of the images on [[w:c:iiiiiii|my wiki's slider]] were resized, and they don't look too bad to me. --Iiii I I I 22:34, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - you need to make portal pages full width, or they don't look as nice. Look here to see what I mean, before that page was full width it looked horrible. You need to ask Wikia to modify the namespace to allow the page to span the full-width of the page. Dragon 2h sword old.pngCallofduty4 Talk 17:56, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

(edit) I see Stelercus already has, good call. Dragon 2h sword old.pngCallofduty4 Talk 17:57, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I think dropdowns are a good way of giving easy access to the pages. An example of that can be found [[w:c:joeytje50:Test#Dropdown without JS|here]]. As this doesn't need JS, and still looks good, I think this is very useful. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 10:29, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

That's the second or third time you've said that. 222 talk 22:25, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
I just moved my comment from the top to here, because I thought people might not have seen it. Nobody answered it yet, so it's just like a "bump". JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 01:00, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Notice of intent - I will never understand this, so I didn't even bother to read it. However, from the nontechnical portions I can tell that the discussion has more or less died and that there is no proposal. So, unless the discussion restarts again, this will be closed. --LiquidTalk 03:24, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Unless anyone has any objections, the result would be that all portal pages take on a design similar to the one I proposed, as I don't believe Iiii's is finished. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 10:29, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Sorry but I have to say i's looks better than your one as it is. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 10:38, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

I merged parts of [[Portal:Example1|Steler's version]] and [[Portal:Example2|7I's version]] and created [[Portal:Example3]], to keep what is (imo) the best of both versions. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 13:00, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
I still think 3i+i's is slightly better but maybe remove the events and put related portals in it's place and move it to the top of the page. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:28, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
I don't see the point of the news section. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 19:31, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
Yeh, maybe replace it with a description of the topic of the portal and move it above featured articles. Example of what I mean at [[Portal:Example4]]. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 01:03, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
I think Example4 would look better if the related links weren't in an infobox, as that kinda kills the flow of it. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 15:23, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I'm going to go over the problems I have with the examples.

  • Example 1 (just to be fair...)
  1. It requires the creation of WikiProjects for each portal. This may not be what we want.
  • Example 2
  1. There's a gallery section and a featured image section. That's repetitive.
  2. The scheduled events section is unnecessary. The vast majority of the time, that section will be empty.
  3. The stories section is just as unnecessary, and it follows the false premise that we actually have a sufficient number of RSWP submissions for every topic.
  4. The news section will rarely have anything in it.
  5. The only two sections I don't have problems with are the featured article and the related links. I don't see any potential for portals being useful if we go with this design.
  6. The design/layout borrows too much from the main page.
  7. The colour scheme is bland and implies that other portals will have little diversity, visually speaking.
  • Example 3
  1. The news section will rarely have anything in it.
  2. The colour scheme is bland and implies that other portals will have little diversity, visually speaking.
  • Example 4
  1. It's not much of an improvement from Example 2.

Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 17:27, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

My view on it is
  • Example 1
  1. It doesn't look suitable for something to do with RuneScape.
  2. Categories is unneeded with related portals and navigation box at the bottom
  • Example 2
  1. Events and stories are unnecessary.
  2. News is kinda interesting but may be very short on some portals.
  • Example 3
  1. A bit of blank space at the top of the page.
  2. Categories is unneeded with related portals and navigation box at the bottom
  • Example 4
  1. A bit of blank space at the top of the page.
Although it is probably a little biased that is my opinion because I believe looks is just about the most important things for portals as long as they have information in it. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:20, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
The purpose of portals are to serve as link farms, connecting to as many pages on their respective topics as possible. The category tree helps with this. Can you explain your first point under Example 1? Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 17:45, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
Well the blue with red doesn't really suit the theme of the wiki. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:04, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
It's supposed to suit the theme of skills, as the colour scheme draws from the statistics interface. The fact that it doesn't match the rest of the wiki shouldn't be a problem, because the area around the content was changed to match. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 10:37, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
Uh no, the theme is still the same with the brown map as the background. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 10:43, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
I am aware of that. I'm referring to the fact that the content of the portal is within a different coloured boundary, over a background that matches the content. I'm sure this will result in some less appealing portals, but otherwise, they will all look exactly the same. The former of the two options sounds better to me. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 21:26, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
So you would rather a few bad looking portals with bad colours, like the skills one, rather then them all being the same and looking alright at least? Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 09:25, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
"bad looking" according to who anyways? Unless it's liek matt's (old?) userpage colors, there'll be some people who like it and some people who don't, which means making all portals different colors isn't a problem from that point of view. Oh, and I like the idea of making each portal use different colors. bad_fetustalk 18:17, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
I think the brown portals look exceptionally ugly. I prefer the color scheme to the example I put together much more than the yucky brown. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 20:05, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
Well yes the brown still isn't great and improvements should be made, but the portal should still fit in with the theme, which I feel yours doesn't. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 05:10, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
If we were to go with a scheme that fit the skin, we would be limited to one scheme: brown. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 21:12, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
Not really, there are some colours that look good with brown, and some that don't. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 05:25, February 25, 2011 (UTC)
You're right: black. So that's two colours now? Fantastic! Lol Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 10:24, February 25, 2011 (UTC)
Aaand, who decides what looks good with brown? >_> bad_fetustalk 14:31, February 25, 2011 (UTC)
You're right, I'm being too ridged. Some shades of gray complement brown pretty well. So that's brown, more brown, black, and gray. Amazing. Anyway, that's another good reason not to go with colours that "look good with brown". Not everyone will agree on what colours look good together and whatnot, so we might as well focus our energy on something more productive. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 02:01, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

New Approach

It seems that everyone is making individual page suggestions then just pointing out the problems. Why don't we discuss what users want out of the portal pages? Why we created them. I think we should formulate a process:

  1. Which portals to create
  2. What boxes/headers to use
  3. Finishing touches, incudings colours and minor layout changes
  4. Open a WikiProject (?) to discuss any future portal modifications, or else just open new ygs each time

I believe we should only discuss 1 point at a time, in order. I'm assuming we'll go with Example 2's design, as the only design-related complaint Steler made was about the colour, which can be changed later. So let's start with deciding what portals to create. I think at this early stage, start with general topics, then just let skills have their own portal. So:

  • Skills (overall)
  • Quests
    • Novice
    • Intermediate
    • Experienced
    • Master
    • Grandmaster
  • Tasks
  • Music
  • Armour & Weapons
  • Distractions and Diversions
  • Bestiary
  • History
  • Locations
  • Money-making
  • Items
  • Activities
  • Community
    • Images
    • Maintenance
    • Content

Then a portal for every skill. Also, we should allow the general topic portals to have varied boxes/headers, with a few standardised ones (like gallery, related portals, etc). Skill portals should have basically the same boxes/headers. That list above is incomplete, as it's only what I know off the top of my head. Remember, we don't need portals for EVERYTHING. That just gets confusing, and its better to combine related topics together, like Armour+Weapons and Distractions+Diversions LOL. Okay, discuss and suggest! :) Chicken7 >talk 08:00, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Could I throw minigames/activities into that (maybe with DnD, probably big enough for their own portal though), bosses (as a different portal to bestiary), and more "behind the scenes" portals like the community portal, some portal for images, some portal for maintenance, etc. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 13:59, February 25, 2011 (UTC)
Nice ideas. I added activities, but I think bosses are better merged with bestiary; then we can include information about monsters altogether, and also let bosses have their own box about strong ones or whatever. I added the Community Portal, and also added Images, Maintenance and Content. I'm going to start moving on to the next step now; remember, we can always make new portals later. Smile Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 01:41, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I think is is handier to divide Quests into Novice, Intermediate, Experienced, Master, Grandmaster and Special. Just saying. Lol User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 11:22, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

Interesting idea; I didn't think of this. What would be put on separate pages though, that we couldn't put on a central quest page, out of interest? Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 15:03, February 26, 2011 (UTC)
Seeing the many quests, a central quest portal (which should be there and tell about quests in general) would cover too many. With a portal for each difficulty, we can give a bit more detail on the level and redirect to some examples. E.g. Desert Treasure might not be the first quest you think of, but it is a perfect example for a master quest. SKÅL, User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 15:58, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
We can give it a go. Wink Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 02:55, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Creating the portals

So now we reach part 2. We should now start actually creating the portals and deciding what to put on them. I created [[Portal:Fishing]] a few days ago, and have had a lot of input and other users editing to try and make it as good as we can. Feel free to edit it if you have a fairly minor change, although lets discuss major things here. I think that Portal:Fishing should be a basis for all future Skill portals, and somewhat still an example for future portals.

I think the easiest way to do this is just create all the portals, then discuss. So if you want to make a portal from the list below that is red, feel free to do so. Please follow the design as set by Fishing. Then, other editors can edit it, and if there are things we are unsure about, or need to be discussed, we can do that below/in-game/on IRC. When all portals are made, and things go dead, we can move on and decide if everything is fine. So let's list all the portals:

  • [[Portal:Skills]]
    • [[Portal:Fishing]]
    • [[Portal:Cooking]]
    • all skill portals
  • [[Portal:Quests]]
    • [[Portal:Novice quests]]
    • [[Portal:Intermediate quests]]
    • [[Portal:Experienced quests]]
    • [[Portal:Master quests]]
    • [[Portal:Grandmaster quests]]
  • [[Portal:Tasks]]
  • [[Portal:Music]]
  • [[Portal:Armour & Weapons]]
  • [[Portal:Distractions and Diversions]]
  • [[Portal:Bestiary]]
  • [[Portal:History]]
  • [[Portal:Locations]]
  • [[Portal:Money-making]]
  • [[Portal:Items]]
  • [[Portal:Activities]]
  • [[Portal:Community]]
    • [[Portal:Images]]
    • [[Portal:Maintenance]]
    • [[Portal:Content]]

Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 02:55, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Sub-portal cities/kingdoms? User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 10:50, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Notice of intent - Unless someone says/does something soon, I'm closing this. --LiquidTalk 20:32, March 31, 2011 (UTC)

Close it, remove red links, but don't delete the pages or anything. When I come back eventually, which is probably inevitable, I will finish this. But for now I'm inactive. 06:54, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
Keep the links and if people are interesting get them to create all the portals. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:00, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
Also l2login chicken. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:07, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

Closed - We'll get this done eventually. Someone else can remove the links if he really wants to. --LiquidTalk 01:14, April 2, 2011 (UTC)