Forum:Player VS You

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Forums: Yew Grove > Player VS You
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This thread was archived on 3 September 2010 by Ajraddatz.

There is a lot of discrepancy between talking about a user as "a player" or "the player", or refering to them as "you." I can't find any policy on which is the correct way to go. I find this rather unprofessional, and there should be a decision made one way or the other.

So I propose that most references to a player as "you" should be changed to reference "player." This would help keep the professional and unbiased perspective of the wiki going. Of course, this wouldn't affect everything. Quest pages, specific examples, and guides could refer to "you."

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that a bot wouldn't be much use with this. Some sentences would have to be gramatically restructured to fit this.

Basically, I'm suggesting that all things should be refered to with an outside perspective unless otherwise required. This means that "we", "he", "she", "they", and such would also have to be looked at.

Vultyre 12:30, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


Comment - Forum:1st, 2nd or 3rd person.  Tien  14:39, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - It should be "the player", not "you". If you see the latter, feel free to change it. ajr 22:13, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I could've sworn this was already in the style guide O_o. Anyway, the correct word is "the player", and in turn, "they" (as we do not know the reader's gender). Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:25, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Up emoticon.gif I hate when people say "he or she must then use awkward sentence structure". I use "they" 100% of the time. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 01:31, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I wish there was an easier way, but "they" is grammatically incorrect. There's usually a way to work around being forced to say he/she his/her him/her repeatedly in the same sentence. But I shudder when I see "The player then takes out their armour." White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 01:46, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

3rd person in most pages, 2nd person in walkthroughs and guides. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 00:34, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support third person everywhere - We are a professional wiki, and professionalism only comes with third person. --LiquidTalk 01:24, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but we also have walkthroughs and guides, something other professional wikis forbid. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 01:28, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Basically feel free to change it. But as we are a site about a game, most people just want information and they aren't going to be the Grammar Nazis about it. As long as they infomation is presented in a clear and doesn't look like it's just been thrown together, people won't really care. While I do think we should try and make things as good as possible, I really think we have bigger fish to fry. (Such as adding information to all actual stubs, and removing the stub template from all pages that it is on). HaloTalk 03:53, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Remove the need for either, and when that's not possible, favour second person for instructional articles. I've written a bunch about this in the past, and I don't think the English language has changed all that much in the last year or so. It is a pervasive and particularly destructive misunderstanding that second person and professional writing cannot go hand in hand. It is true on Wikipedia where the goal is to avoid instructional writing styles. Here, we're mandated to write that way when it comes to guides! I guarantee you that any educated person will immediately dismiss our guides as unprofessional if we stick to the third person. This has been discussed at length and was incorporated into RuneScape:Quest style guide. The original discussion was at Forum:Quest_guide_policy. I cite there something I'll reiterate again here:

Writing style.

The way you actually write instructions, sentence by sentence, may seem contradictory to what previous writing classes have taught you. However, notice how "real-world" instructions are written—they use a lot of imperative (command, or direct-address) kinds of writing; they use a lot of "you." That's entirely appropriate. You want to get in your reader's face, get her or his full attention. For that reason, instruction-style sentences sound like these: "Now, press the Pause button on the front panel to stop the display temporarily" and "You should be careful not to ..."

A particular problem involves use of the passive voice in instructions. For some weird reason, some instructions sound like this: "The Pause button should be depressed in order to stop the display temporarily." Not only are we worried about the Pause button's mental health, but we wonder who's supposed to depress the thing (are you talkin' to me?). Or consider this example: "The Timer button is then set to 3:00." Again, as the person following these instructions, you might miss this; you might think it is simply a reference to some existing state, or you might wonder, "Are they talking to me?" Almost as bad is using the third person: "The user should then press the Pause button." Again, it's the old double-take: you look around the room and wonder, "Who me?" (For more detail, see passive-voice problem.)

Another of the typical problems with writing style in instructions is that people seem to want to leave out articles: "Press Pause button on front panel to stop display of information temporarily" or "Earthperson, please provide address of nearest pizza restaurant." Why do we do this? Do we all secretly want to be robots? Anyway, be sure to include all articles (a, an, the) and other such words that we'd normally use in instructions., Online Technical Writing: Instructions

Of course I'm talking specifically about instructive text here. Anyway we already have a style guide about this so people should be conforming to that until there is a firm consensus to reverse that policy. Just thought I'd drop by and mention this. Endasil (Talk) @  03:57, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support 3rd for articles, 2nd for guides & walkthroughs - I also fully agree with what Endasil wrote/pasted. It is part of the future Quest WikiGuild's goal to rewrite the walkthroughs and use only ONE type of writing. I think you should be allowed in the walkthroughs, but not the neutral articles above. Also, imperative command should be strongly encouraged. I'm thinking we should have a bolded 1 sentence instruction, and then a deeper explanation following. Example:

Push the button beside the north-eastern cupboard. The button is bright red, and you will receive a warning upon pressing it. Be wary as there is a 20% chance you will be poisoned after pushing it.

Yeah, anyway, there might be some blurriness when talking about articles that have both informative information and a mini-guide that is not defined with its own header. Like steps of how to obtain an item in its respective article. Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 08:13, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

What defines a guide? - Category:Guides, Category:Quests (walkthrough section only). Anything else? White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 12:28, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

We need to decide if a "guide-like" section of an article should be defined as a guide and have these changes. Chicken7 >talk 13:39, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
Along with that, we need to decide whether guide-like sections in articles should be on subpages. For example, the mithril dragon article has its strategy section on a subpage, while the strategies for steel dragons are all on the article itself. To make it even more inconsistent, the mithril dragon strategies are written in third person while the steel dragon strategies are in second person.  Tien  14:04, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - Discussion has died down, and no changes are required. ajr 04:02, September 3, 2010 (UTC)