Forum:NEW RS:CHAT rule proposal

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This thread was archived on 25 August 2011 by Suppa chuppa.

Due to constant spamming by some users of non-English languages in Special:Chat, I'm requesting the addition of a new rule to RS:CHAT.

English is the main language of the chat. Other languages only really need to be used when helping to explain something to a non-fluent user. In many places it is considered rude to deliberately use a different language to the majority one. In addition, some users do not even hold long conversations with another user in non-English languages, but merely use it to spam. Therefore I am proposing that a rule is added to RS:CHAT to restrict the language used in the public part of Special:Chat to English only. Small recharge gem.png AnselaJonla Slayer-icon.png 23:30, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - as nom Small recharge gem.png AnselaJonla Slayer-icon.png 23:31, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Partial support - If they are explaining what the language means then fair enough. Otherwise it should be English. What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 23:32, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Strong oppose - If you're gonna do this, might as well add it to the IRC as well, because it occurs just as much. --クールネシトーク 00:46, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Strong support - English should be the main language of the chat. Other languages should only be used when helping if English cannot be used. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 00:50, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

To add on to that, how are we to moderate a chat if we only speak one language? We're the english wiki, people who come here obviously speak english. They should have no problem speaking it in the Special:Chat, and if they do, they are free to receive help in their chosen language. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 05:42, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Sorry, but we're an English wiki so English should be the primary language spoken in the channel. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 00:55, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Instead of forcing everyone to speak only in English, why not just ask them to? Andrew talk 02:11, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

That kind of is what I had in mind. I took the proposal to say English is the main language in the Chat, and by that it we would then ask people to use English, or to take the other languages to PM if possible. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 02:13, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
Because they say no? sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 05:34, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose Racist much? Learn the language if you want to know what they are saying.--Degenret01 03:19, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think racism has anything to do with it. ɳex undique 03:33, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
here you seem to think we are an English wiki. Are you being racist yourself there then? JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 09:27, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
Bit of a difference. That's UoTM and it was a wall of text that could easily be viewed as a disruption, and he's right that silly games are better played on talk pages than the RuneScape namespace. This is the chat, which is like IRC or the clan chat. It's informal and no decisions that affect the wiki are made in it. It's just where we hang out, so suffice to say you can't always compare a chat to the wiki. Andrew talk 10:18, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - going with what I said earlier, there's no reason to force everyone to only speak English "or else." It really isn't that big of a deal, especially when there isn't much going on in the chat most of the time (at least whenever I check in). Ask them to speak English if it bothers you, and if it really bothers you, ignore them. Andrew talk 05:19, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Neutral - While I do think having an only English chat would be good, I do not think we we should forcibly make people speak it or leave. I agree that we should ask them to speak English and if they refuse or don't understand, take action from there. Concerning the spamming thing, people spam in English too so I don't count that against them. --Touhou FTW 05:42, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Light oppose - I'm with Touhou on this but I do have to oppose on it. Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 05:43, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Yes, English is the main language and everyone is supposed to speak it, but if someone doesn't understand something he can ask a fellow Italian in French if he wants to, which only makes things easier. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 11:02, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Not to be off-topic here. But don't they speak Italian in Italy? HaloTalk 12:52, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
Which is why getting help in other languages is okay. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 14:07, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
Um...Fswe, what planet are you from? Andrew talk 20:40, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - I don't think we should force people to speak only English, especially if they don't know how to say something in the language. Smithing (talk | contribs) 14:03, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Which is why getting help in other languages is okay. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 14:07, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I suggest everyone re-read the proposal as there seems to be a misunderstanding between the nominator and several users commenting here. Suppa chuppa Talk 15:58, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Support, although - I think it should be modified to If using a different language, users should speak in English when asked to do so. Note this is anyone who asks. As it is, it can be used as a loophole to cause disruption. The whole point of this proposal isn't to stop people speaking another language altogether, but to make the chat function properly. And do not forget that private messaging is possible, so this would not rule out user->user conversations in another language. --Henneyj 16:12, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I'd strong support that too. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 16:13, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Speaking a language is something everyone has to do for communication. People need to talk to each other and share common interests as well as keep a lively conversation. We do the same in English, put yourself in their shoes for a moment. As an example, if you were speaking English with one of your best friends in a Spanish-hosted lobby, what this proposal is attempting to do is ban it. That would mean, in the example, you were banned from speaking to your friend in a free clan chat. It's not exactly good. Instead, why not promote users to speak English, if they can't, they still have freedom to speak their own language. Spam may be a different issue though, moderators could easily recognize spam and make a fair decision Runecrafting.gif Mo 55 55 Talk|Sign 13:44, August 20, 2011 (UTC).

That's not a fair equation, because this website is aimed only at English speakers. There are other RuneScape wikis for speakers of other languages. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 01:18, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Why not adapt the Clan/Friends Chat rule for the onsite chat?

If a user asks you to stop using a language other than English, please do so. While all users are invited to the friends/clan chat of any language, English is the main language spoken by the majority of our users. If a user feels that the use of any other language in the friends/clan chat is limiting his or her ability to participate in the conversation, you are asked to take it to another friends/clan chat or private chat.
RuneScape:Clan Chat#Additional rules as added by discussion, point 8

Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 13:54, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose. If people want to talk in another language, why not? ajr 16:53, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Support - This is the English version of the RuneScape Wiki. Other wikis exist for every other language somebody has bothered to create a wiki for. If they can't speak English well enough to use the chat, they should be using the wiki of their respective language. I'd also like to point out (as Gaz already did, I just noticed) that this rule already exists for the Clan Chat. It stands to reason that all CC rules should carry over to the Wiki chat, though I don't know if that's the case. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 01:18, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

The Clan Chat/Friends Chat, IRC and Chat all have had their own rules for as long as I can remember. What makes you think that they should be changed now? --クールネシトーク 12:42, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Per Steler. This seems like an open-and-shut case to me. This wiki wasn't created with adapting to international languages in mind. Ronan Talk 08:37, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Uh, this is the English wiki, so it makes sense to. Should really be a no-brainer, not sure why this is even being discussed. Dragon 2h sword old.pngCallofduty4 Talk 21:08, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Because it isn't on the wiki. It's in a chat. As in where people hang out. Not a big deal like you all are making it out to be, and I find your comment slightly insulting. Andrew talk 06:10, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
You can't say the chat isn't on the wiki, as it is. It is hosted on the wiki, not off-site. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:57, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
But to say that it's "on the wiki" implies that it is encyclopedic in nature. A chat is clearly not. Andrew talk 15:13, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Thus I don't see why you thought he was implying as such. All he meant was that it was on-site. No need to take it so seriously... Ronan Talk 19:35, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

You're missing the point completely and it really isn't worth my time to explain it any other way. The significant opposition on this thread speaks for itself. Andrew talk 07:26, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

I understand the opposition perfectly, but I'm quite unclear on what point you're trying to make. Ronan Talk 10:41, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - We kick spammers no matter what language they spam in. There's nothing wrong with a few people having a conversation in their native tongue, which they feel more comfortable using, as long as it doesn't bother anyone else. HaloTalk 11:34, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Notice of intent - Hitherto, the opposition has been mainly concerned with forcing individuals to speak English. As the proposed rule (that other languages can be used, but users are asked to switch to English if others specifically request it) does not have this issue, that rule will be implemented unless there opposition specifically to that version of the rule. --LiquidTalk 13:36, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

No objections from me. Andrew talk 20:47, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - I always thought this rule was semi-bull crap from the get-go. We can't and should not force people to speak a sole language. We are, after all, a wiki for everyone. However, if you ask them to stop/use private message if they're truly disrupting chat flow, I agree with that, but completely limiting other languages isn't right. I remember saying a few Spanish phrases and some guy pulling out the "No using foreign [email protected]!" card on me. tl;dr Ask, don't force, we're made to be used by anyone with an interest. Unless there's a circumstance with walls of text/spamming, get over the fact there are other languages. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 03:45, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

You didn't read it, did you? Suppa chuppa Talk 03:45, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

VERY EXTREMELY STRONG OPPOSE FOREVER AND ALWAYS ETERNAL - Per Chaos Monk, and per RS:UTP, etc. Not only would this take away rights, but people who use other languages are entitled to use other languages. If it's bothering you, that is kinda too bad. Aufwachsen und mit ihr umgehen. I can honestly say that this is the most pathetic proposal I've seen. I can understand that, if it is a case of complete spam, then it is justified to punish a person for spam regardless of language. This is, of course, a wiki for everyone. Creating a rule because someone doesn't want to see other languages typed is truly childish. People speaking other languages shouldn't be penalized for speaking their own language. Hell, if we did this, we'd better just go ahead and ban anyone who talks. This proposal is pure racism. Adam SavageTalk 03:57, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Proposals are made to be read. On a side note, Ww're an English Wiki btw, we delete articles in another language, and revert edits that translate the page to other languages. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:00, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
Cause languages are races too. You're blowing this way out of proportion - "Pathetic", "take away rights"?? Have you even read the supporters side, or Liquid's notice of intent? I assume you haven't as others have pointed out that this rule is already in place for other means of communication for our wiki community, as well as the wiki itself. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 04:09, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if either of you actually read Liquid's notice or not, as it clearly states there that the rule will not force users of the chat to speak in English, and they will only have to switch languages should any other user ask them to. It won't "take away rights" in any way, nor does it have even an implication of racism. It's only purpose is to allow smoother communication between users. Ronan Talk 08:55, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Strong support - the opposes above aren't actually opposing what the thread seems to be about and should basically be ignored. People can speak in whatever language they like until someone asks that everyone return to English. If someone gets uppity about being asked to switch to English they can go and chat in a community of their language.

As something of a PS, who cares about abrogating rights? This isn't a sovereign state signed up to some international convention on rights. It isn't even a democracy. Ardougne cloak 4.png Raging Bull Talk 15:21, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Closed - The rule has been added to RuneScape:Chat. Suppa chuppa Talk 15:58, August 25, 2011 (UTC)