Forum:Move Jagex employee articles to their JMod names
Article titles should be recognizable to readers, unambiguous, and consistent with usage in reliable English-language sources. ... Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject.
Here's my reasoning:
- JMod names are the "common name" – it's how Jagex refers to them in newsposts, how they identify themselves on the forums and Twitter. As Isobel said in the previous thread, "...mod names are what players will actually know and search for articles by".
- It's easier for editors to remember and type, removing the need for pipes like
[[Andrew Hopkins|Mod Deg]]and avoiding redirects when linking the JMod name by itself.
- Users already refer to employees by their JMod names when writing articles – see [[Paul Broadbridge]] and [[Liam Powney]], for example.
- Their usernames are Mod [name], and we have a policy of using in-game names.
Only in cases where we do not know the JMod name of an employee should their real name be used. It seems to be mostly "behind the scenes" people that fall into this category: members of the audio team, the QA team, the board of directors, etc. Since we don't have a JMod name, their real name is by default the most recognizable name.
Support --07:45, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Oppose - I'll preface this by just saying that Wikipedia's policies aren't our policies. While we derive some of our from them, it isn't necessary to follow their rationale. Moving on though, I don't think this is necessary at all. We discussed this in the previous thread (in which you didn't make this argument at the time), and concluded it just generally feels more encyclopedic to use the person's real name. Mod names redirect to their real name articles, and I don't know why we should avoid linking to these redirects - they're perfectly acceptable? Alternative names is one of the reasons we redirect in the first place. I think your argument of "we have a policy of using in-game names" is a little defunct considering we have a policy specifically for Jagex employees, rather than actual players. "Mod MMG" is a worse article name than "Mark Gerhard". "Mod Pips" is a worse article name than "Phil Mansell". Of course we could make exceptions for highly notable people like that but what would be defined as "highly notable"? Exceptions like that won't help us stick to a standard naming convention. We've always used real names, even for the sections about each content developer for example before that article was changed to use DPL, and I see very little reason to change our convention now. jayden 08:31, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
- Not having commented on the original thread precludes me from having further opinions on this matter? I'm also not sure why you bring up RS:GRAN as a separate point, considering that section was only added as a result of Forum:Yet another Jagex thread.
- Real names are not better article titles if no one recognizes the name. "James Crowther" is worse than "Mod Raven", "Daniel Rogers" is worse than "Mod Doctor". I'd define highly notable as limited to members of the board of directors - they're important people that run Jagex, and are therefore more likely to be referred to by their full names in news reports and things like that.
- Alternative names is one of the reasons we create redirects, but we generally avoid linking to them in favor of linking to the article's actual title. It's the reason you type
[[Ironman Mode|Ironman]]instead of
[[Ironman]], etc. -- 07:24, August 26, 2017 (UTC)
Mega Support - per everything 7I listed and referenced, and doubling down on that it is how they are thought of and spoken of. In any place or cc when a Mod is spoken of by name it is always by their Mod name. Always. Jagex employee articles are probably one of the worst things we ever did, at least let's do it Runscape style with their Mod names so they won't suck 100%. Degenret01 (talk) 12:38, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
- People spend a lot of time on projects like the employee articles. I don’t think they suck. They’re informative. Have a little respect for other people’s work rather than outright slating them in a non-constructive way jayden 12:58, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Neutral - On one hand, the real names are more professional. On the other, the mod names are more useful to readers. Eh.17:12, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Support - We aren't an encyclopedia, we're a fandom wiki. The RuneScape fandom recognizes Jagex employees by their mod names, not their real names. We should use what the community calls them and what they call themselves when they're facing the community.17:33, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Support - I agree with fetus' proposal. It seems to me that there's an obvious good sense behind making article titles as recognisable, and as easy to find and remember, as possible.
When it comes to being encyclopaedic, well, it's subjective whether Mod MMG is "worse" than Mark Gerhard. The likelihood is that we will always know a Jagex employee's 'Mod' name because that is how they are introduced to us, whereas we may not always have their first name and surname to hand -- the uniformity in using 'Mod' names being the more encyclopaedic choice in this example.
I should note that the above counter-argument of RS:NOT#WIKIPEDIA seems fatuous once you concede that it's the sound reasoning of Wikipedia towards this subject which is being used to support the proposed naming system here, rather than it being a case of following Wikipedia's lead for its own sake. Ronan Talk 18:43, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Support - I've been wondering recently whether digging up the full names of JMods is a little too far when the defaults are either their mod name or their developer name, e.g. Dave A. Standardising on the mod name gives Jagex staff more privacy as well as making it easier for the majority of us to identify them. cqm 20:24, 20 Aug 2017 (UTC) (UTC)
Support - Per Cqm20:30, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Support - Per Cam --20:49, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Neutral - Just to throw a spanner in the works, what about articles for individuals such as Paul / Andrew Gower. I'm pretty sure most people are more familiar with the Gower brothers via their real names than their JMod names. Would they be an exception to the rule? If so, with them being such a large part of the history of the company, would it really still be a rule? --Nivarak (talk) 21:36, August 20, 2017 (UTC)
Support - I thought Mod names were more encyclopedic for a gaming site. Looking at wikis for other games, they almost always use the chosen "gamertag" than the real name. --LiquidTalk 01:01, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
Support - It is a RuneScape wiki -01:03, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
supper - nomf02:23, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
Support - I agree with Cam, but I have to note that the jmod names are used as a redirect.06:29, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
- I think that's a bit backwards as redirects are for common aliases or misspellings. We've managed to make the name we're introduced to JMods by and what they're referred to pretty much everywhere as the alias when it reality it's the preferred name. cqm 07:02, 21 Aug 2017 (UTC) (UTC)
- True. 09:36, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
Support - Everybody knows them for their JMods names, the real names can go on the body of the page.22:31, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
Support - per Degen and Samba. These articles shouldn't have been split in the first place but since they are now, in the context of this game, JMod names come first except perhaps for a few key people known more under their real ones. 5-x Talk 13:45, August 24, 2017 (UTC)
Oppose - I think some jmod names can get confusing with some others jmod names, also if I remember correctly, there was two Mod Ana, how we would handle that? Plus, only Jmod whose are on social media/stream have their names know and we are using real name on everything else with wiki, so not only it would create inconsistencie but would be also a waste of time, if its not already done, I suggest creating redirect instead.19:20, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
- There are legitimate reasons to oppose this proposal, but concerns over similar names? We have an excellent method of dealing with it already in the form of disambiguation pages and templates like LiquidTalk 22:19, August 25, 2017 (UTC) or . Also, IRL names can be quite similar too... --
- We're going to have inconsistent titles whether or not we implement this. We don't know the real name of every JMod, so our current naming system isn't foolproof: see Mod Ollo, Mod Stu, Mod Tom. Since we know more Mod names than real names, we should go with the more consistent inconsistency. -- 07:24, August 26, 2017 (UTC)
Support except Gowers - It's a bit inconsistent maybe but I feel like for Andrew, Paul and Ian it makes more sense to have "x Gower" than just "x" because they don't have "mod" in their names Oil4 Talk 23:49, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
Closed - JMod names will be used as article names. Real names for JMods can be included on articles and can be used as redirects. There is no consensus to make exceptions for specific employees, such as the Gowers, at this time. RS:GRAN has been updated. Updates will need to be made to Template:Infobox Person, [[Template:Infobox Person/dpl]], all JMod articles, and all team articles (e.g Content Developers) to account for this change. jayden 21:17, August 27, 2017 (UTC)