Forum:Monster granularity

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Forums: Yew Grove > Monster granularity
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This thread was archived on 9 October 2010 by Liquidhelium.

Monster articles like Guard, Skeleton, and Ghost are quite a huge mess, and I think we need to add something to RS:G to address the situation. I've given it a bit of thought and come up with the following conditions that I think would deal with the problem nicely:

  1. Daemonheim variations have their own articles
  2. Different named monsters must have different articles
  3. Monsters of different combat levels must have different articles unless:
    • They have very similar or identical drop tables AND
    • They are found in the same location and all variants can attack and be attacked
  4. If a monster variant needs to be differentiated from other monsters with the same name:
    • If the variant is located in only one location, and is the only such variant to appear in that location, the location name appears in parenthesis after the name
    • If the variant is located in multiple locations, or if is found in one location with other variants that are not applicable for merging under rule #3, (level XX) or another easily distinguishable characteristic appears in parenthesis after the name

The only stipulation which I believe could be considered confusing is the third, so I shall elaborate. I thought of this in response to monsters like Ankous and Dagannoth (Lighthouse). There, you can find monsters of varying combat levels, however they all have the same name, drop the same items (with very few exceptions), and a player will be under attack by all the variants at the same time, or cannot reasonably control which variants are attacked. Thus, when a player goes to kill Ankous, they will kill all three combat levels. Likewise, in the lighthouse dungeon, a player will come under attack by both the 76 and 91 leveled dagannoths, and since their drop tables are so similar, it won't matter which they wind up killing.

On the contrary, may different wolves and skeletons are found all around the world. Some are very close in terms of combat level and drop tables, so they would be viable for merging based on the first part of the third rule. However because they are located in entirely different parts of RuneScape, they can't be fought at the same time. A player killing one variety will not also be attacked, or able to attack, a different variety. Thus there is no benefit to merging them together, and doing so can only add to confusion.

I'm not totally married to rule #3, and wouldn't mind if instead we separated all monsters with different combat levels (except for Daemonheim monsters) instead of merging similar ones, but there is certainly no reason to merge the level 19 ghost found in Draynor Manor with the level 79 ghost found in the Spirit Realm.

Discusssion

Support - Because disagreeing with myself is counterproductive. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 03:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Seems to be reasonable to me. HaloTalk 03:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support - Per Halo. What is it with all these granularity threads popping up? Matt (t) 03:40, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Why did we not already have this? svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:09, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Sounds good. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 04:26, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support - About time something solid came up. 222 talk 04:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support 1,2,4; weak support 3 - Per nom. bad_fetustalk 14:14, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support 1, 2, 4, Not sure about 3 If you mean with

On the contrary, may different wolves and skeletons are found all around the world. Some are very close in terms of combat level and drop tables, so they would be viable for merging based on the first part of the third rule.

that the 2 white wolves should be merged, big wolf should stay seperate and the 2 stronghold of security wolves should be merged, and all other wolves should be kept seperate, then i support #3 too. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 19:27, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Where are the two white wolves found? What level are they? Are their drops the same? kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 20:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Minor support - This should happen, I agree, but the times I've seen this happen, those pages are simply remerged or even deleted, an example being the skeletal gorilla monsters on ape atoll. Achievements Coelacanth0794 Talk Contribs 21:03, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Probably because there was no consensus/policy which mandated it. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 21:05, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
If this were to go through, would the skeletal gorillas be included on this new monster list? I could help out with those, images, etc. Achievements Coelacanth0794 Talk Contribs 21:12, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
Are skeletal gorillas the one in the marim dungeon, that everyone chins and bursts to train really fast? If so, then yes. They have different names, right? If not they still have a fundamentally different combat experience than the normal gorillas, and they aren't fought in the same locations. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 01:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per nom. Recent uploads SpineTalkGuest book 21:10, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support - Though I should mention that this is really the de facto way that articles are organized. --LiquidTalk 21:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support - I thought of this today. Also, I think that all monsters encountered in dungeoneering should be consistent in their suffix, for example, I've seen some *monster name here* (Daemonheim) and some *monster name here* (Dungeoneering), we should probably change this to (Daemonheim) (IMO) as it is where it is located and seems just better in my opinion.

Quest point cape.pngTalk Newbie856 edit count Nomad guideMusic icon.png 23:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 01:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • All are good. #3 is a bit of pickle, since, for example, the lighthouse dagganoth are two different combat levels with two different (though similar) drop tables. In an effort to be totally clear, we really ought to split them out by combat level. But that's not as helpful as notating that they're both only at the lighthouse, since, as nominator notes, you can't really pick and choose which ones you attack effectively. So I suggest that as a general policy, monsters are (appended) according to combat level, unless they are more logically denoted with (location), to be determined on a case by case basis. (wszx) 03:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Makes sense and the name of the monster should just turn into a disambig page to all the versions. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 04:42, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Daemonheim? - We have different leveled monsters in Daemonheim with the same name, same outlook and same attack style. When we split them some monsters give the same (Brutes?) drops but some don't, could you explain a bit more about this?Rewlf2 08:11, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

By Daemonheim I assume he means monsters that exist both in normal runescape and attack-able Daemonheim versions since they have different drops (Daemonheim drop dungeoneering stuff) and come in random levels; IE Ice Warriors and the Daemonheim versions. Korasi's sword.png Archmage Elune  TalkHS Void knight deflector.png fetus is my son and I love him. 09:21, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
This is a good approach. However what is it to do with such as comparing LV71 forgotten warriors and LV131 ones (both in Daemonheim)? Split or merge and what's more? Rewlf2 10:13, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
As I recall all forgotten warrior's drop the same thing (just higher amounts for higher levels), and the only thing that's different is what equipment they drop. And they drop whatever equipment they are wearing. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 19:58, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Support Why not. Korasi's sword.png Archmage Elune  TalkHS Void knight deflector.png fetus is my son and I love him. 09:21, October 5, 2010 (UTC)


Closed - RS:G has been modified. --LiquidTalk 21:57, October 9, 2010 (UTC)