Forum:Merge potion vial and flask pages

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Forums: Yew Grove > Merge potion vial and flask pages
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This thread was archived on 22 July 2013 by Suppa chuppa.

I have recently come across a very interesting thought: do we actually have any good reasons for keeping potion vial and flask pages distinct and separate? Is there a reason for Overload and Overload flask to be separate pages? I can't seem to think of one, so I asked some people, and here's what I've got so far:

Flasks and potions are completely different, and therefore need different infoboxes.

That's true, however I don't see why we can't just chuck them both into a Switch infobox. We can even put some different text in, too.

By that logic, shouldn't we put mixes on the same page too? That would, however, obviously not work.

That's completely true too, and the reason why common sense tells us it wouldn't work is because not every potion has an equivalent mix; however, all potions have a flask version.

The Exchangespace treats potions and flasks as two different items, as it should. This would only impose technical difficulties.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the GE space treats tradable vial pages as four different items already. I don't see how it wouldn't manage 5. As for untradable potions, well, there's no problem to begin with.

I think it's mostly to label slight differences, and price differences for tradable items, like sara brews and sara brew flasks.

So, as I've mentioned, the vial pages are 4 items anyway. By that logic, we need to give each dose version its own page. We can use subheadings, links and the Switch infobox to separate data if we wish.

There was an agreement long ago that there would be a page for each item.

A bit of misinterpretation there, but the "agreement" referred to is indeed RS:G, which I knew would no doubt be brought up here. There are three major issues with referring to RS:G here:

  • The logic of interpreting RS:G as "an agreement that there [should] be a page for every item" tells us to make separate pages for each of the 4 potion doses. That would be far too much hassle, and can easily be done on one page, as could the flask version.
  • Quoting RS:G: "except in special cases where it is decided to combine or delete an article by consensus". Along with RS:CONSENSUS, that tells us not to look at policies word by word for answers to such problems, but use our common sense to decide what is better.
  • Finally, even if RS:G is interpreted as a reason not to merge the two pages, it would simply be plain wrong. RS:G specifically lists the criteria for two pages to be eligible for merging, and they fully comply with the aforementioned argument (quoting as much as possible directly from the page):
  1. Does item A have the same purpose/use as item B? Yes, all potions have the same effect when used.
  1. Can item A be substituted with item B? Yes, as 4-dose can be replaced with 6-dose.

Proposal

Instead of giving flasks a separate page, put the images and infoboxes for both on the same page, using switch infobox if necessary, and merge the information on the flask page into a subheading on the main potion page.

Tl;dr

I see no reason for pages for potions in vials and the former in flasks to have separate pages. Comparing data, like costs per dose, would be so much easier if it was compiled on the same page, and Switch infobox allows us to separate the data that we want to keep apart. Please discuss this below.

Discussion

Support - As caek om nom nom nom. Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
Guestbook My violations of AGF
Oil4 I made this 15:57, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

If this receives consensus, I'd be happy to volunteer to do the merging. Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
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Oil4 I made this 15:59, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

No Support - How are they the same if Flasks are untradeable after 1 use while potions can be traded at any stage? --Jlun2 (talk) 17:54, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

When did I say they're the same? I said they "have the same purpose/use" and one "can be substituted" for the other, which lets us merge them. Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
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Oil4 I made this 18:09, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
In fact, your logic says that (3) and (4) dose potions aren't the same because they have differing prices. Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
Guestbook My violations of AGF
Oil4 I made this 18:09, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
Did he say that? JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 18:17, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
He said that 2 different doses of potion are different items and should have different pages. Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
Guestbook My violations of AGF
Oil4 I made this 18:49, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - Like with potion mixes (ie. Attack Mix), flasks are different in a number of aspects: flasks are untradeable when not (6), they can't be decanted, they are destroyed when the (1) dose is drunk, and the flask requires is much more expensive and harder to get than vials. I think they differ enough to be seperate pages. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 18:17, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

That can easily be mentioned in a subheading on the page. Let me reformulate the proposal. Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
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Oil4 I made this 18:30, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - I dunno. It doesn't seem all too necessary. I did create a mock-up of how the infoboxes would look on my sandbox for those curious as to how it would end up. Blaze_fire.png12.png 19:41, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - Yeah, after reading the other comments, I switch to oppose. Thanks for creating this discussion though. Lead me to some image maintenance and the fixing of Magic flask and Ranging flask >.> Blaze_fire.png12.png 16:57, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - Far too many differences, and the switch infobox is not very good to begin with. There are more changes than just the infobox parameters as Joey said. There seems to be no good reason to do this. ʞooɔ 21:00, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - Just because the switch infobox exists doesn't mean it absolutely has to be used on every single page. Real Mad 21:31, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! MolMan 21:32, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - They aren't the same item with different dosages, they are different items, are made differently, and have different uses after use. Plus, if somebody's looking for a potion flask, they're not looking for the vial version and vice versa What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 21:34, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

They are different items, true. They are made differently, true as well, just like an energy potion (3) is made differently to an Energy potion (4), as the latter requires decanting, much like an Energy flask (6). I agree that they have different uses after use, because a flask used once has 5 doses and a vial used once has 3. The only thing I don't agree with is the fact that if I'm looking for a vial, I don't want to see the flask. Maybe I'm comparing dose costs. Maybe I'm comparing overall prices. It's not as if the user is overloaded with unnecessary information when they open the page, which can be easily organised into two distinct categories, and some of it collapsed. We can use anchors to make appropriate links. Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
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Oil4 I made this 13:13, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Oppoopopopose - Not the same items. Flasks takes flasks to make, potions takes vials. Different times, different dozes ect. — Jr Mime (talk) 13:23, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Switchfobox breaks Exchange MolMan 13:24, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Can we close this thread based off of this? Blaze_fire.png12.png 18:07, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Opposition - They're both different items. -- Recent uploads SpineTalkGuest book 14:03, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

How? Bluefire2 Talk page Vandalize my sig
Guestbook My violations of AGF
Oil4 I made this 19:48, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Normally, I would support this, since flasked wnd vialled potions are exactly the same, aside from the amount of doses, image (duh), tradeableness, price and way to make. These can all be summarised in one sentence each. Besides, since the differences between flasks and vials are the same for all potions, the differences can be standardised for all pages. However, if switchfobox messes up the price, I'm going to have to oppose this. Forum:Merge off-hands onto mainhands was withdrawn for this same reason, otherwise I would have kept supporting that, since off-hands are more similar to main-hands than flasks are to vials. Anyway, since GEW doesn't work with a merge, it's a no no for me. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 20:01, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Strong oppose - It does not matter they have the same purpose/use. Those are completely different objects, and individual item types are all notable enough to have their own pages. RSW has to document everything, after all. 5-x Talk 14:30, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Closed - No consensus to merge vial and flask pages. Suppa chuppa Talk 16:17, July 22, 2013 (UTC)