Forum:Male, female, or both?
There was a slight argument on whether we should have both male and female versions of equipped armour. Some of our pages have both versions, even if the only difference is the changes between anatomy (Example) or to the pages where there is obvious difference (Example).
That leads to the question, should we have versions of both? Or should we only have both if there is a large difference between the sets?
Keep as one image - As an imagemaker, it's time-consuming to put up multiple images of the same set or costume. It's also a pain to find both a male and female (at least ingame) player willing to pose for both images. And what if one of the images is a lower quality image? I'd happen to say whichever gender is uploaded first or at least whichever is a higher quality and/or larger image. Coelacanth0794 Talk 00:31, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
- At what point are they not considered obvious differences? Would the Verac's brassard count as an obvious difference? It would to me... Coelacanth0794 Talk 00:35, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Keep uploads by quality. However, differences that are very obvious and not just "the platebody is shorter on females or longer on males" should also get both images taken. Plateskirts and platelegs being different items, they should probably get distinct images regardless, but those can be taken by either a character of the appropriate gender or, again, by best quality.
00:44, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Support both - I know it' a pipe dream to have male and female versions, but I think we should at least try to maintain it for rare or high valued equipment images. Also, the Make-over Mage no longer charges a fee and it's an okay location to take images. User:Exor Solieve 00:56, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Use common sense and When in doubt, go for both - I think our image makers have enough common sense to know when the male and female versions are sufficiently similar. I think a good rule of thumb is that when a conflict arises between two image takers over whether to feature one gender or both, that preference is given to having both genders.
There really isn't any point to having two almost identical images for males and females. It's twice the work for essentially no benefit, and you're going to hassle the poser as well as the image maker.
I don't think having posers change their gender for every image is an ideal solution. Even if it's not free, the fee (2000 in the olden days, I believe) is nominal. The bigger problem is getting there and convincing the poser to change his or her gender. For the record, I would never change my character's gender for the sake of an image —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liquidhelium (talk) on 02:23, January 5, 2012 (UTC).
- For the wiki, tough decisions must be made. If we all just had the "I won't do this" attitude, we wouldn't be where we are today. For how could we have gotten this wiki as far as we have if the older users had decided "I'm never going to do this" or how would Wikia have formed in Jimmy and Angela said "Nope, it would fail. Not gonna do it." What if Jimmy said "Forget Nupedia, I'm gonna go home and watch TV!"? It is because of people doing things that no one had expected of them that we are here today. For this very reason, I believe you should be willing to change your character's gender for the sake of improving our wiki. For if no one went outside of their comfort zone, we wouldn't be here. I'm not telling you that you have to do this, but I'm asking for you to be willing to make the change for the wiki and to allow us to become a more complete resource for everything RuneScape.
- As for it being just a nominal fee, I beg to differ. If someone ended up taking 50 different sets (at different times of course) that would be 200k coins that they had spend. While just once might seem like a little, after a while the prices add up, because you have to pay the 2k to change to the opposite and then the 2k to change back. Because of this, now is the best time to make a firm stance on doing this if we decide to do that because the makeovers are free, which removes the building of costs imposed by having to change your gender. You therefore have no real reason for not being willing to get out of your comfort zone to make the change to allow one of our glorious image takers to take your image more than once. And while they're taking your picture, you could help clear out our image maintenance categories to ensure that our images are top notch, while another image is being made. It'll be like a project to get all the images taken care of. And with that, I end those pointless paragraphs. 02:56, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
- This issue is not about whether or not people are willing to do the work. If we for some silly reason decided to put up images in ten different hair styles or five different skin colors I'd be willing to stand there and make the necessary changes the requisite number of times. But, as a matter of personal belief, I am not willing to change my character's gender for a purpose such as this one. The one and only time I did was for a quest, and I hope it never has to happen again.
- Furthermore, the treatise about the wiki's work ethic dodges the bigger issue, which is that I believe it is not a good idea to have images of both genders for most items simply because there is no difference significant enough to fall into my rule of thumb stated above. I do not believe that having two near-identical images benefits the wiki.
- As for the fee, I still believe it's nominal, but as it's no longer in effect, this is a moot point. In small font, here's my explanation of why I think it's nominal. Ignore it if you're not interested. If you actually took 50 images at different times and had to switch genders for each one, you'd have to be really shortsighted, or, you'd be spreading out the images over a large period of time. Let's say one armor set per day, and even that is being generous. If you're actually going switch gender for just one armor set (as opposed to, say, 10 armor sets), it's really not likely to be more than one in a couple of days. For the sake of simplicity, let's say it's one per day. Over a period of almost two months, you lose 200k. That's 4k a day. If you did one armor set every two days, that's 2k a day. I drop more money on teleport runes when I'm too lazy to walk a short distance... It definitely is nominal. --LiquidTalk 03:18, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Neutral - It just takes more time to do that, but it would look better. Hair 02:44, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Support images for both genders - Per Zam. By the way, if it was decided only to have one image showing a single gender instead of images for both genders, does that mean that all the images showing the other gender would be deleted? I'm just curious since deleting a whole bunch of images as a result of this proposal seems counterproductive to me.  03:08, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
- I think either gender is fine... whichever one is featured just depends on which one was taken first. --LiquidTalk 03:25, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Comment - Whichever comes first for clothing that looks similar on both males and females. If they're different enough to warrant a completely new image, go ahead and have one per gender. UCS. 03:17, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Obvious difference is a rather ambiguous phrase, which could do with some more clarification. Would the difference between robes, dragonhide bodies, and chain bodies be considered an "obvious difference"? Its just a bit shorter on women. Is that enough to justify separate images? Also, whatever you decide, the images should not be combined into one image that shows both the male and female sets at once. There's no reason to combine them like that.06:44, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Support both - When there's no difference, I think it's perfectly fine to have just one image, of whichever gender comes first, but if someone wants to upload their own image of the opposite gender, even if the equipment looks the same, it really doesn't hurt to have the extra image. Even though a pink skirt looks the same on males as it does on females, the "big picture" is changed, in my opinion (not saying you can't wear a pink skirt if want, just that it seems "different" on each gender). Hofmic Talk 06:59, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
What proofreader said - Use the correct gender where possible, but quality should come first. Also only have both genders if there is a large difference in the image, Santa costume legs/top being a good example of when to have two images and Santa costume gloves/boots being an example of when to only have the one image, but of course, common sense has to be used for deciding if there is a big enough difference, as we can't have strict guidelines on this. 09:17, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
If there is a difference: yes. Otherwise not.15:37, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Support obvious/significant difference - If the only difference is atanoical, I would not count that as significant. We would have to decide what counts as significant. Clearly for images such as leather gloves there's no difference, but for agile legs there is a hugely significant difference. For images such as Verac's brassard would have to be decided, as although it is atanomical it adds something noticeable to the female version that is lacking from the male version, and granite platebody, which shortens the length of the body on females 16:40, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
Both when there is a major difference - I agree with those above where one image is fine except for items that have remarkable difference between genders. --09:42, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
Both - Per Okuu/Touhou.09:04, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
One image, unless there is a difference. 00:29, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
Closed - One image is sufficient for most equipment. If the difference between male and female versions is more than just a minor change to fit the contour of the body, then separate images should be uploaded. Suppa chuppa 17:24, January 18, 2012 (UTC)